Gods and Not-gods and Ancestors, Oh My!

The Tuatha Dé Danann are the gods of the ancient Gaels, and are without a doubt beings of incredible stature, power, and importance. The stories told of them, passed down orally over centuries, were important enough that a few centuries into the conversion of Ireland, Christian monks expended the very expensive materials to record them, to preserve them for future generations. And while these are, in my opinion, without a doubt deities, there is very little doubt that the lore also places them as ancestors. 

The Lebor Gabála Érenn (Book of Invasions) makes it very clear that each of the tribes of our great mythological figures (Partholanians, Nemedians, Firbolgs, etc.) are related to the Tuatha Dé Danann, with marriages  to the Fomóire mentioned in other pieces of lore. But even if the Tuatha Dé Danann weren’t related by blood to the Milesians (however distantly), they would still be incredibly influential and powerful ancestors of the land and spirit to the Milesians (humans). In all ways our gods are ancestors. Incredibly powerful ones deserving of worship and adoration, but still ancestors of land, spirit, and blood. 

While I’ll direct you to this post for a brief description of the three types of ancestors I’ve mentioned- from this it should be fairly obvious how the gods are placed as ancestors of land and of spirit- after all, the lore places them as kings, queens, and warriors - they inhabited real places that people still live today, and their stories serve as inspiration and tales of guidance for us as we try to live our lives honorably. But as far as them being ancestors of the blood, this is a bit more complicated. 

This is an incredibly distant relation, and one that bars absolutely no one from its definition. The Lebor Gabála Érenn beings with the Biblical Noah, whose household was the sole bloodline spared in the great flood. This is not to say that I’m taking the lore literally or at face value, but rather that I’m interpreting what we have- and what we have places the gods as ancestors- to understand the dual importance of the gods we have to understand the positions the lore gives them.

Unlike the lore found in other cultures which places their deities as cosmic forces, our gods are remarkably human in comparison- yes they are at times giant, and many of them possess magic and abilities beyond our mortal understanding but they aren’t representative of natural forces in the same way that say the Hellenic deities are. The actions of our gods influence the landscape, not unlike our own, but on a much grander scale. It is incredibly difficult to fit our gods into archetypes, any one archetype robs them of not only their agency but their wholeness.

They are surely divine, for all their magic, elf mounds, and grand stature- qualities not everyone in our lore is shown to have (some of them are even referred to as wizards), but they’re also fragile and mortal things- we have record of their deaths. The Tuatha Dé Danann are a tribes of mythological people, who go through many of the same trials and tribulations that we might- questions of honor, loyalty, honesty, love, duty, etc. In so far as their deaths are concerned - it is important to keep in mind that the Tuatha went into the síd, into burial mounds after the arrival of the Milesians. The otherworld is a place where sickness, frailty, and crime do not exist, where the soil is made of gems and beings of incredible power can pass eternity without any decrease in their vitality. Eber Donn, the first Milesian to die in Ireland is often associated with Donn, and it is he who “rules” over the other world for us human mortals- Eber Donn the first human to die welcomes us to his home when we pass, but the other world occupied by the Tuatha and the sidhe is different (I tend to ascribe to the interpretation found in the Book of Invasions that Eber Donn, the first Milesian to die and be buried in Ireland is the Donn to whose house my soul will travel when I die so that’s where this interpretation is coming from).

But not all of the Tuatha Dé Danann are gods. We have gods, not-gods, sidhe, spirits- and which figure from the lore falls under which category (or categories) is up for interpretation in almost every case. There is an “official” list of gods known in English as the Fitness of Names - however some (like me) interpret other not listed figures, such as Mannanán, as deities. At some point, historically, the entirety of the Tuatha dé Dannan were considered sidhe, as they, like the sidhe, had moved into the síd translated in some instances as “elf mounds.” Others yet can be considered spirits- for example I’ve seen Boann interpreted as such.

Just as you don’t have to necessarily like a deity to worship them, you don’t necessarily have to recognize or interpret a member of the Tuatha as a deity to worship and/or venerate them. Because of the practice of ancestor veneration a member of the Tuatha dé Dannan need not be interpreted as a deity to be venerated- we are supposed to foster relationships with our ancestors, and how fortunate we are to have ancestor defined in three ways, and to have each of those three ways apply to the Tuatha.

As always if you have any questions my ask box and dms are always open!

I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.

Conan the Barbarian (from Queen of the Black Coast by Robert E Howard)

I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom’s realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer’s Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.

Conan the Barbarian, The Queen of the Black Coast

“I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.”

― Robert E. Howard and L. Sprague De Camp, Queen of the Black Coast

Queen of the Black Coast, Robert E. Howard

I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. 

It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. 

Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. 

I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.

I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.

Robert E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast

Hubert Thomas Knox, The History of the County of Mayo, 1908

Page 4: It is impossible to give any kind of date to these legends except that they are a shadow of events which occurred before the battles of Moytura, which may be dated as not long before the beginning of the Christian era.

The Nemedians appear again as the Firbolgs, who invade Ireland under the command of the five sons of Dela and divide all Ireland among themselves, Connaught falling to Genann. The fact is that they appear as settled in Ireland, in Meath and Connaught, and that members of the family are said to have held the chief sovereignty for thirty-seven years. Their last High King, Eochaidh Mac Erca, made Tara the residence of the High King of Ireland. The other branches of the clan of Nemed, the Tuatha De Danann, appear and challenge the supremacy. The Danonians, having landed on the coast of Sligo according to the legend, encamped on Slievanierin. When the Firbolg under King Eochaidh prepared to meet them, they went to the west and took up a position in front of Mount Belgadan, now called Benlevi, that is at Cong, to the west of Magh Nia, the Plain of Heroes, now called Moytura. It is a curious feature that they are given as an ally Aengabha, King of Iruaithe, which has always been translated Norway, the usual meaning of the word. He played a distinguished part in the battle. In this case Iruaithe did not mean Norway, but the Irish kingdom of Herota or Hirota, which was about Galway, where w find in later days two Delbhna clans.

Page 16: If these changes are taken to have occurred, we must admit that conditions existed in Ireland in the fourth century which have no parallel before or after. As far as we can judge from the legends of earlier and from the historical records of later centuries, the political conditions of Ireland were the same from the time of Queen Meave to the twelfth century. Christianity only softened manners and got rid of some savage customs.

No one could be king of a province, or of a main division thereof, without the support of a large group of families closely related to each other, and forming the foundation of their chief's power over other tribes. The descendants of kings spread over the land, indeed, but by very slow degrees, encroaching on less powerful clans.

Ulster suffers soon another conquest. After the death of Niall of Nine Hostages, his son Laegaire is King of Meath and King of Ireland in succession to Dathi, but his sons Eogan and Conall Gulban are settled in North Ulster, where they leave dominant clans. That the Oirghialla clans of the north would have submitted quietly is incredible, and Meath could not have imposed them violently on that distant part of Ulster. After the fifth century, when the High Kings were of Meath and Connaught alternately, the Hy Neill of Ulster provided almost all the High Kings for 150 years. If Niall of Nine Hostages is the Niall who was buried at Ochaine, it follows as almost a certainty that he was a King of Ulster, and was not son of a King of Meath and Connaught.

In Munster a somewhat similar condition is found, where the King of Munster is generally of the Eoghanacht and only occasionally of the Dalcais race.

In Connaught the chief kings come from Hy Briuin and Hy Fiachrach, north and south, until the former establish a supremacy.