What is your opinion of Finrod Felagund as a character? and what about his debate with Andreth. Thanks in advance :)

[I assume the question is for the mun, but if you were addressing the muse, please let meknow!]

Finrod is afascinating character because of his ambiguity. Many years ago, I wrote a longthread about him, but it was on another blog which no longer exists, so thethread disappeared with it (unfortunately. Or not.). Anyway, I believe Finrodhas nothing to be ashamed of in comparison to Curufin in terms of manipulativeskills and wannabe puppet-master, although the process, the output, theobjectives and their general demeanours are very different. Finrod is terriblysmart, and his “prophetic” power, along with his talent for osanwe, make himrather “dangerous”. Wait a minute. I’m not saying Finrod is a “villain”, far FAR from it, I’m just implying that I’d rather be his friend than his enemy.Basically, although I’m sure his motives are noble, I find him quite creepy(cf. the first meeting with Bëor’s people), and I totally believe that he isless “naive” that he looks (cf. the debate with Andreth). But I also think thathe never lost hope (as Estel). 

There is a deep ambiguity in his decision to follow Beren,which is increased by his words to Galadriel regarding his not having an heir,and his prediction about his kingdom. (this oath issue troubles me in terms ofdeterminism – I mean, he “knew” he would take an oath… did he plan to take anoath? How spontaneous was it?). I think that he perfectly knew what he wasdoing, what was going on, and that he did it in the name of his “faith”. Indeed, I think Finrod is kinda “pious” (if this adjective can be applied to a world in which religion is not a thing), and the debate with Andreth seems to underline it. In the wholeBeren-mess story I believe that Finrod saw himself as a sort of “martyr”, beingconvinced that he was accomplishing Eru’s will in helping Beren – Finrodclearly follows what I call the Estel-principle, isn’t he? (“…if any marriagecan be between our kindred and thine, the it shall be for high purpose ofDoom.”). And this faith in the Valar’s teaching can partly explain why he seemsso contemptuous to Andreth… In any case, I never believed Finrod to be a“victim” of Curufin and Celegorm in Nargothrond. I think he knew exactly whathe was doing, I think he held the strings for a while after his cousins arrivedin Nargothrond (the arrival of the Fëanorians and their troops in a realm thathad lost many soldiers during the Bragollach must have been quite saltatory),and perhaps was he really willing to alleviate the tensions with his cousins.But he is not stupid, and never dropped his guard. His little outburst beforehe left Nargothrond is, by the way, very very interesting. Did he not expecthis people’s reaction? I mean, come on, he asked them to run towards a potentialdeath and to expose their kingdom to a potential kinslaying, for the sake of Beren,who was, for the people of Nargothrond, only a mortal! I don’t know about you,but I can’t blame them for listening to Curufin and Celegorm. Sorry not sorry.

As for thedebate with Andreth, I have a complicated relationship to it. Formally, I loveit. This dialog is wonderfully written and structured. A masterpiece in termsof dynamics. And if you want to take it as something that really happened (from adiegetic perspective), it is dramatically relevant in terms ofcharacterization. Now, it is debatable and as ambiguous as Finrod; who transcribedthis dialog? How was it transmitted to younger generations? Is the characterisationbiased (precisely because we don’t know the author)? But oh well. All theseconsiderations aside, I find it relevant in terms of motives, beliefs, racialprejudices, and the so-called elven teachings. As for Finrod’s behaviour towardAndreth, I’d call it a sort of “condescending benevolence” (not my term but itfits him so well); his rhetoric relies the subtle art of crystalizing thedifferences between the species through the guise of courtesy. Yet I do not denythe sheer curiosity in Finrod, obviously he doesn’t mean any harm and hebelieves he is doing “the right thing” (Dear hubris…)… which is quitetypical… And I love Andreth, precisely because she is not deceived.

I tend toimagine him as somehow slightly hypocritical (he knows the power of appearances, doesn’the?), but don’t take me wrong, I don’t believe he’s an asshole. On the contrary! he wants to do “what is right”! 

He is a verycomplex character. I tend to believe that he is not the saint that he wants people to think he is (see theparadox? 😉). He is noble, he is loyal, he isbrave, and I imagine him as being a lovely person with those he trusts. I alsoimagine him with a great sense of humour, being able to distance himself fromthe situations in which he’s involved. Yet, he remains vain, and I can’t seehim as devoid of self-interest. In other words, I definitely see him as a verystrong, ambiguous and complex character, who keeps his cards close to hischest, and whose reactions aren’t always clear.

If you’reinterested in my interpretation of Finrod, you can read the chapters of my ficAnathema in which he appears, maybe it will illustrate this long post (?). In thisfic I try to give a rather enigmatic figure, not only because I find Finrodenigmatic, but also because it is written from Curufin’s perspective…consequently the image of Finrod is obviously biased.

If you haveany question, feel free to ask =3

If you could possess one single object that appears in the Silm/hobbit/Lotr/HoME, which one would it be? Here I am torn: on one hand I’d love to have the Palantìr to comunicate with others and see ahead during travels. On the other hand: the Silmaril would be an awesome energy source and scientific conundrum. Probably I would “settle” for a Silmaril. There are a lot of things you can do with a black body, even though I fear I would not like the “moral radar” placed on it by Varda at all.

As a mortal man arriving in Beleriand during the first age, would you have trusted the Eldar? I would have been incredibly fascinated and probably I would have given an arm and a leg to learn their technology, still I would have been very wary of their cultural perspective. At least of the one of the “very good guys”. I would have guessed that all the Noldor and Northern Sindar, were serious about defeating Melkor, but even in the best case scenario I would have seen a lot of possible problems arising from the afterward of a victory. A well respected vassal is still a vassal, especially when it is substituting its culture for the one of a more powerful people that claims to have seen and know more than any of my people could ever experience in their lifetime. I would have probably advocated for lending help to the Noldor in the war against Morgoth, quite vehemently once seen the situation in Beleriand and the Amlach scheme, but beyond that I would have guessed that even a victory would have meant an uncertain future for my kind and kept rather wary of them all. 

You are on a long errand and eventually find yourself in Lothlorien. Before you leave, you are given to choose between Miruvor or lambas bread. Which one do you take with you? Miruvoir, naturally! Even uncooked root vegetables taste better if you wash them out with great booze! 

Any opinion about the “petty-dwarves” and the way they were treated in Beleriand? The Petty Dwarves are a people that I feel a lot of sympathy for; they are the lowest of the low, the ones anyone feels entitled and justified to mistreat, thus I cannot help being rather fond of them despite their glaringly obvious flaws. I think that their position shows the ugly side of Khazad society. The dwarves are secretive and clannish, which leaves their exiled individuals (wether they are scapegoats or have definitely earned their punishment) without any help in the outside world, especially a feudal world like Beleriand. I think the history of the petty dwarves is very poignant because it is the story of the oppressed that aren’t “perfect” and “blameless”, it is the history of “guilty” people punished horribly and persecuted, left to be used by anyone as the convenient “victim”, to the point that the punishment itself ended up making them much worse than they were. Which only makes the petty dwarves more realistic and all the more worthy of a sympathy they will never be given in a world of moral absolutes like Tolkien’s. To feel for the “innocent lamb” is not praise-worthy, it is normal, what gives the measure of a person is how much they can see the injustice perpetrated on the ones who have committed their fair share of crimes. Sadly in Beleriand there is almost none that quite rises to this standard, except for (and even here: only up to a point) Tùrin.

What did you like the most the first time you read The Silmarillion? Wow.. it was so long ago! I was 15. I think the thing that I liked the most was the enormous scope of the story, the fact it was a history book of an inexistent world. I was positively overwhelmed by the multitude of people and histories, the glimpses of different cultures and their complexities. 

Do you think a Sauron-Smaug partnership could have been possible if the dragon hadn’t been destroyed? Any opinion about it? Possible? Yes, but depending on its goal and its scope. I do not doubt Sauron would have tried to make use of the dragon, after all Sauron is SMART, to the point that the only way he is beaten is by concocting a plan that relies on “providence” rather than tactics. Stiil, exactly because Sauron is smart, I do not think he would have honoured his agreement with the dragon to the bitter end if he had thought it too “limiting” of his own power; Sauron is not keen on loosing control. As for Smaug he would have undoubtedly seen the possible advantages in allying with Sauron, but he might also have seen the possible drawbacks thus he might not have thrown all of his lot with the Maia. I think an alliance could have been indeed possible, but its scope might have been limited, both because Smaug is an indolent slob, and because Sauron would not have liked to promise too much to the dragon knowing of its greed. Likely the dragon would have been “used” to completely vanquish the Khazad and people of Dale, but not much more. As a trump card Sauron already had the Witch King, who was of comparable power and completely under his control: a much safer bet.

Should we talk about the portrayal we get of Finrod in the debate with Andreth? Absolutely! Everything should be talked about XD. All jokes aside, I think that analysing his positions in the Antrabeth is paramount to understanding Finrod. I do not like them at all, but it is exactly because of them and a few other details that make his character definitely much more gray than the author probably intended, that I find Finrod interesting. To be completely frank I find the idea of ”St. Finrod the wandering hippie” absolutely boring and a disservice to a character that canonically has a side that doesn’t appear, in my opinion, as flatly cardboard-cut likeable or accepting of others as it might seem at first glance. Tolkien to me is all more fascinating and engaging because I do not share many his values on a fundamental level and seeing them exposed and argued for helped me grow as a person. I considered the position he presented, thought about it, and, no matter the conclusions I reached, I think my inner life was richer for it.

Can you share one headcanon about Celebrimbor and Narvi’s friendship? I ship them with the brightness of a thousand burning swan-ships. Despite really liking each other they are more often than not challenging each other’s abilities and theories. Even as they worked together they were adamant about having each their own lab and started their own private “underground war” by snaeking in each other’s work space and leaving “corrections” on each other’s notes. Which quickly escalated in the forged being used to craft new and better locks to protect their doors. The fight ended when Narvi found Tyelpe knelling on the floor in front of his new lock, desperately trying to pick it. Sadly his triumph was short-lived as he realised that even his own key was NOT getting the door open. Two hours passed like that: with Tyelpe insisting that his colleague had just made a lock impossible to open, and Narvi replying that Tyelpe had just “messed it up with his butcher-like attempts at finesse”, until they both capitulated and ended up getting roaring drunk together and taking turns axing down the door with Narvi’s ceremonial weapon after a solemn promise of never invading each other’s work-space anymore. Narvi gifted Tyelpe with the lock they recovered from the splinters as a “sign of peace” and to “prove the elf that you are never too old to be wrong”. Years and years after Narvi’s death, in the time when Annatar was becoming more and more shady even in his own eyes,  Tyelpe was playing around with the lock out of sheer nervousness and ended up dropping it. The impact dislodged a tiny piece of metal that had broken from Tyelpe’s lock-pick, unbeknownst to the elf. The lock opened immediately. Narvi adopted his young, brightest, dwarven apprentice and Tyelpe was adamant about “getting to be dad n.2 know the kid and be involved in his life”

Any thought about the idea of Maedhros wearing the dragon-helm? Why giving it to Fingon if it had already been given to him? Isn’t it rude? Is it even a good gift-idea? Here I’m biased.. XD Let’s say I do not think it was rude, but a sign of both friendship and a reminder to the Western Noldor that Himring had very important allies that knew how to make fire-proof armours, which the westerners had not and sorely needed. Smarmy gift, not exactly rude...

According to you, in The Silmarillion, which action is the most meaningful(/heartbreaking) token of loyalty? Bòr’s children and their people fighting to the end by the side of the Fëanorians.

If you could be fluent in one single tongue of Arda, and be clueless about all other languages, which one would you choose? (pick the age you prefer) I am already very much bothered by the fact I only know three languages and a half rather than “all of them”... Knowing only one would probably drive me to insanity. Yet: fair is fair,  I have to answer. I would like to be a Noldorin Quenya speaker that got accidentally shut in the scientific section of Formenos’ library. Imagine all the books, project, technology, and ideas that could be found there!

tagged by @atariince (thank you so much! <3) 

My stupid questions:

What do you think of Hurin and Huor’s last stand? 

Thoughts on Maeglin going missing for so long and then being just allowed in  with no questions asked?

Considering the events that ended WWII, Tolkien’s words in his preface to LOTR, and his “scientists on the slippery slope”:  do you feel any sympathy for Saruman?

If you were an Hobbit of the Shire would you have voted for Sam as a major? Why?

If you could visit one and only one location in Beleriand which one would it be? Explain

How much do you think Gondolin’s nostalgia for Tirion influenced the depiction of the Exiles as eager for a chance to go back to Valinor?

If you could either be Galadriel or Elrond which one would you choose? Would Celebrian like that? 

What do you think would have happened if “the Noldor had won the day” in the Nirnaeth?

First thought of Thorondor as Maedhros and then Fingolfin bled all over his plumage. 

Your favourite Caranthir’s moment, can either be your head-canon or canon.

Would you like to have the Gaffer Gamgee as your father in law? Why? 

tagging: @feanoriel, @eldochflamma, @hwarang, , @morgholoth @gultgull and whoever is interested and has not been tagged yet!