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Phy.25 Kaoru Interview (April 2024)

(Interview by Hasegawa Yukinobu)

ーAlong with the new single 'The Devil In Me', you have also recorded self-covers of your songs 'Cage' and 'Yokan'. Had you already decided to do this at the time you were making your previous release '19990120'?

Yes, we had. The idea behind the last release was originally in part due to our 25th anniversary, but we also thought it would be a good chance to reconnent with those people who had been fans of Dir en grey in the old days, but who had since drifted away. But we couldn't just re-release the old songs and then be like, 'Ok, thats it'.

ーYou have to get those returned fans to listen to your new music too, right?

So, we made 19990120 and planned to release a new song straight after, but as for what to include for the coupling tracks on the new song, we decided self-covers of Cage and Yokan would be good.

ーYou re-recorded the 3 songs from your debut release for 19990120, but following this, you went for your 4th and 5th singles. By the way, I personally found it very emotional that the band chose to re-record Yokan.

Did you?

ーI think you know this, but I've loved Yokan since way back....You know that, right?

Uh, no. I didn't know that (lol)

ーDo you remember that whiteboard there used to be backstage at Studio Coast, you would use it to decide the setlist? There were magnets with song names taped onto them, and you would use them for deciding that day's setlist. I once even tried making some magnets for Yokan and Akuro no oka, and sticking them on the whiteboard myself. Thats how much I love those songs (lol)

Oh, yeah, I remember that. (lol)

ーAnyway, regardless of that, looking back at these songs from the time of your debut, I really felt the Dir en grey of 1998. How did you approach your next moves in terms of sound back then?

Back then? Well, for the first three songs, they needed to have a big impact. Then following this, the singles Cage and Yokan had the restraint of being tied to a major label. We had to figure out how to make melodious but also interesting songs.

ーMaking songs with a major label?

Thats how it always goes, right? And record companies want follow up singles to have just as much punch as the debut single. So thats the kind of situation we were in making Cage and Yokan. But within ourselves we were also making them with the album in mind.

ーNot as stand alone singles?

This was our first full album as a band, so I wanted to include a lot of songs. With 5 singles included they had to be songs that would fit well with the other songs on the album. I remember having this in mind while making Cage and Yokan.

ーA lot of visual kei came out in the second half of the 90s, but in 1999, with your first album Gauze, I really got the sense that the members didn't want to fit into that typical band mold.

At the time, we were just so driven we didn't mind being seen as unorthodox. To put it in an extreme way, it was kinda like, 'As long as we make an impact, who cares about the music!'.

ーDynamite Tommy's band 'Color' had a similar outlook. They would say in interviews, 'We are an unorthodox band!'. Maybe you were influenced by him? (lol)

No, I don't think that has anything to do with it (lol). But at the time, there were not a lot of bands with flashy visuals. I mean, there were in the following generations, but in our generation visual kei was mostly bands wearing fancy suits. With us, there was a part of us that just wanted to be different, I think thats reflected in the songs too. Whether it was the single, or the label, whatever...we just wanted to do something out of the ordinary (lol). Also, we knew that our producer at the time Yoshiki, would make it sound good for us in the end.

ー Were you aiming to get to the top by being out of the ordinary?

No, not really. I wasn't thinking about the songs selling to such an extent while I was making them. Of course, I still thought this band would sell records, but part of me also thought 'How weird for this kind of band to be big'. So instead of aiming for the top, I just aimed to make interesting work. But of course, being with a major label at the time, we would have requests come in regarding the lyrics and the music. And the more I hear this kind of thing, the more I just want to go in the complete opposite direction. These were the circumstances in which we created Gauze. So at the time, I thought to myself 'After this I'm never gonna make another album like Gauze'. (lol)

ーYou wanted to be more free to make it in your own way?

Well, actually its like this every time, but whatever I make, even if I put my all into it, I always look back with some regret wishing I had done parts of it slightly differently. So after Gauze, I did think that I always want to surpass my previous work each time. Nowadays, its less about surpassing, but more about finding something different to try.

ーTo surpass=to deny your former selves, so the band underwent some changes, didn't it? I think the turning point came in about 2005 when the band began overseas activities.

Yeah, we went overseas and I think thats when we realised the importance of just being ourselves. Foreign bands stand on stage unashamed of who they are and what they do. There is a purity to it. So for us to chase our goals, I realised it wasn't just about surpassing ourselves, but also being more defiantly ourselves.

ーWere you not as self-confident before that?

Before that there was a lot that we simply didn't understand. From making music, to playing lives, finding ourselves was like fumbling through fog, grasping at things bit by bit. Eventually I realised this was our way of trying to reach our goals. So even just standing on stage, I would still feel a bit unsteady in myself. But going over there and playing lives, I felt more grounded. I realised its ok to just stand there, even completely stripped bare, and just to be yourself.

ー That realisation, yeah.

It was the right time to realise it. Maybe thats why we discovered how to show what was truly within us at that time. Our heavy sound wasn't just a result of lowering the tuning or using a heavy amp.

ーYeah.

I can't really explain it well, but its not about searching for something that is missing, the important thing is using what you have inside you. Whatever comes out from inside the 5 of us is good enough. For example, if you look at Shinya drumming, he doesn't seem like he has a heavy sound in him, but its HIS sound, so its ok. I don't want to change or manipulate it, the band sounds the way it does because of that. Rather than wanting something more, we should be a band that uses each member's sound just as it is.

ーIts great to acknowledge each member like that.

That's all we can do.

ーThats how a band should be, but bands are also groups of people with strong egos. There are also times when too much self assertion leads to failure.

Well, we have had times like that, in the 25 plus years we have been together. But I feel like we are where we are now because of that. You could say that we are similar now to how we were at the time of our debut....because we didn't know how to make music then, but we were just being ourselves. So its kind of interesting for us to re-do these old songs now.

ーWhen you look at these songs which you made 25 years ago, did you feel like they were interesting songs?

I feel like I tried hard to make something interesting. I just had an idea of what I wanted. But the gap between that and the reality was huge, so I constantly felt bad about it. I was remembering this during the recording.

ーDid you feel nostalgia for your young self?

Well, I still worry about things like I did then. I still get stumped when something feels a bit off when writing songs, but now I prioritise discovering what I have in me.

ー 'What you have in you'.....could it be...'The Devil In Me'!? (lol)

Hahaha

ーAs for the new single, what kind of image did you have for it?

Well, I discussed it with the members, but even before that, I had a vision of what would be good for our next move. But if it turned out exactly as I had envisioned, it would be less fun. So the members' opinions are really important.

ーIts a song unlike any you've done before. Its less about developmets or structure, but it really establishes each member's presence. Does this song represent the band's style going forward?

Yeah, its a different style than we've previously had, but I think its ok to keep it simple. Its a chemical reaction between the members. That's what the band depends on. Its not about who does what, its what do these 5 members each make you feel. Even a song which I'm not playing in is ok, if you feel that I am.

ーThats impossible (lol)

No, its not (lol)

ー But I feel like this is the territory you have arrived in after 25 years.

I think thats the type of thing that will make the band more interesting. How can I say it, we don't even have to make it weird, it just has to sound like us. We have over 100 songs now, right? Before we would try to cram stuff into a song to make it sound like us, but now we don't have to intentionally do that. In other words, its something thats easy to convey. Something that you can feel the presence of the 5 of us when you hear it. This will feel different depening on each listener, but thats how we are doing it now. And its the same for our new song too.

#dir en grey #薫 #PHY #kaoru #The other interviews are very intetesting especially Toshiya's #But I'm a Kaoru blog so only doing this here

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