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#‘nah I only listen to Laena’
lilhawkeye3 · 2 years
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Vhagar @ Aemond in episode 10:
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backjustforberena · 5 days
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I do find it funny how they say that Rhaenys always bends to Corlys will when his ass didn’t even want to join the war and only joined because she basically told him to. It’s a relationship lol. It ebbs and flows. The only time we’ve genuinely seen them disagree in course of action was in ep 7. Idc what anyone says but refusing that marriage proposal when Viserys hurled his dying ass across the sea would’ve been impossible.
So ok, he overruled her on the succession argument ( which I’m sorry technically he can because it’s his house and name) and then he didn’t want to join the war and she was like “nah we’re pulling up lol”. That’s super balanced so like how is she hypocritical?
H answers questions that have been in her inbox for far too long.
IT IS A RELATIONSHIP. IT DOES EBB AND FLOW. IT'S CALLED COMMUNICATION. SHE'S NOT HYPOCRITICAL.
With grace, I can vaguely assume why some people think there is a power imbalance. Just on a surface level. But I also think that those people are not willing or haven't actually considered the scenes and the dynamics that they are watching or the context of when these sorts of remarks are made, either.
Criticisms I've seen have generally gone along the lines of: she didn't want Viserys to marry Laena, but Corlys pushed her, she didn't want Laenor to marry Rhaenyra, Corlys pushed her and she didn't want Lucerys to be the heir, but Corlys overruled her. Very, very basic readings of what happens, with no more depth than that. For me, I can see how not only are those very, very different examples and moments, but they are also not examples of Rhaenys bowing down the whims of her husband. Just because she is not the active participant does not mean she is not a willing participant.
My main frustration with this sort of reading, certainly with the first and second examples that I've listened (the third is an outlier due to Corlys's monopoly on the subject), is that it dumbs down Rhaenys's complexity, cruelty and frustrated ambition. It also takes away her agency and her equality with her husband. I've said before how I view her perspective to not be against either move, but simply more realistic.
She's not going to cheer Laena marrying Viserys but she is going to stand by side with her husband and say that it's the strongest match Viserys can make. She can want that match and that marriage and still be a bit bothered by it. The two can live together and probably do. To her, this is how the world works, especially at that point in her life. So, of course, she's going to be present in that decision and advocating for that course of action.
And again, she's not going to be jumping up and down about Laenor matching with Rhaenyra because there's danger in the match as much as there is achievement. But, nevertheless, she's standing side by side, nodding and giving her agreement. She can still be seduced by the idea of elevating her children and wearing a fabulous frock and sticking it to Viserys, and take some satisfaction in her cousin having to beg. She doesn't actually express a wish to veto the betrothal. She just says that she's worried about the dangers of Rhaenyra's succession.
Her powerlessness against the "system" that she buys into and props up is not the same as her being powerless against her husband. By which I mean that, her acknowledging the negative impact of these political choices is not taking away the fact that she is making them alongside Corlys. He is at the forefront because he has to take the lead as a man. Not because he's having to drag her along with it all. It's a reflection of their reality rather than their relationship, if that makes sense?
In short: in political decisions and in public, Rhaenys plays second fiddle because she's a woman, not because Corlys forces it to be that way. These are deals for Corlys to make as Head of House Velaryon. He is on the front-foot, he is the public political power in their marriage because that's how society works. In other words, it's actually pretty redundant to analyse that because it's just... normal.
What isn't normal is that Rhaenys is side-by-side with him. That he values her opinion. That she speaks. That Corlys and Rhaenys often share looks and silent communication: most notably when it comes to the betrothals of their children. There is real implication that these two have spoken, at length, about these choices and come to a united decision about it. How else can they present such a united front to their adversaries?
We don't see Rhaenys and Corlys speak privately about Laena. We barely see them talk privately about Laenor. And with the succession thing, as you say, it's his name and his house. She has no power to meddle in that succession. She cannot declare the succession for Driftmark on her own. That's not in her gift.
And again, as you say, she yells at him, tells him to get his ass in gear and they go down and declare for Rhaenyra because that is what she wants to do. That is what she thinks is right and so he is doing it for her. It's clear as day when he looks at her and she smiles at him and Rhaenyra thanks her because she's painfully aware that Rhaenys is the one who made it happen.
Rhaenys's just never toiled in "service to men". Has she been affected and degraded by the patriarchy? Yes! Big yes! They took her birthright from her. They made her roleless in a society she should have been running. But she doesn't toil to Corlys. She has never toiled to Corlys. To say so is a degradation to their marriage, quite frankly.
And it's a degradation to the awareness that Rhaenys has of the political structure around her and the agency she exerts and free will surrounding her own mind and choices. She does things that prop up the patriarchy. Yes. All the women do. She definitely does things that, in an ideal world, she wouldn't have to do. But she does that because it suits her own interests at the time. Never because a man told her to. And never to the detriment of herself and her safety and her sanity. It's always her choice. For good or ill.
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attonitos-gloria · 1 year
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Daemon/Laena, Night King/Corpse Queen, Cersei/Euron, Rhaegar/Elia?
ahhhh love these. thank you <3
daemon/laena: C (not a bad ship) for the book version in which he duels for her hand, E (i don't really like it) in the show. i think my favorite part of this marriage is whatever is going on in the daemon/viserys/corlys dynamics in the background... and i do like laena a lot; i think she deserves better than daemon. this applies to virtually every woman in daemon's life... i don't know, i just think only viserys and rhaenyra can actually love this man.
night king/corpse queen: oh, ok. great one. listen: i think i am waiting, in the next two books, for a version of the war against the Others that is all-consuming and turns the world upside down in such a way as to be an actual apocalypse. I want a long night that is actually worth the name and the build up of five books. and the story of the corpse queen and the night's king could add to the lore that would make the Others more interesting. i need this. whatever is going on with the children of the forest, with the Others, beyond the Wall with bran, i need to see it developed so badly and i need the impact of this War to be like, devastating, life-changing, i need Westeros to never be the same after them. i like very much the idea of the corpse queen being an asset to the Others - to seduce men so they willingly give their life and souls to frozen monsters. like what is it about her that made him do it? was it because life in the night's watch was boring, the end of the line? was it something else, something more? i would read this story. i think this pairing could be a window into something great. it's an A for me.
cersei/euron: if euron is an actual monster and an evil god who can control the minds of animals and men: A, yes, sure, i want cersei paired with this kind of thing. but if he's just edgy and mad in a slightly uncomfortable human way like in the show... nah. D, i'm indifferent.
rhaegar/elia: huge F for me. i can excuse many evil things (see: all my favorite characters) but i draw a line at abandoning your wife and children with your cruel, mad father to impregnate a young girl because of a prophecy or whatever rhaegar was doing. though, to be honest, i think i would love to know what was going on in this marriage before rhaegar went batshit insane. like. were they friends. were they ever in love. were they allies until rhaegar crossed that line. did elia always hate him from go. i love elia very much, she's my favorite Narrative Ghost in ASOIAF (right there with Joanna Lannister) and i think, if i had any sympathy for rhaegar, i would be invested in this pairing as a study in terrible marriages (which, of course, i adore.) as it is, i find rhaegar a huge disappointment and my favorite things about him are not about him, they are about dany. so. NOTP #justiceforelia
ahhhh i want to hear your thoughts about these ships.
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