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#// speaking as a nd person she has so many autism symptoms that its not even funny
lurxof--thxmaw · 8 months
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Sometimes I wonder what would happen if the Lady learned what autism was. Like she sees some kid stimming or smth and goes ‘ah yes normal child behavior’ and someone else goes ‘oh yeah they’ve got autism’ and the lady is like WHAT THATS NOT NORMAL??????
// THIS IS SO FUCKING FUNNY HELP ME
In all seriousness, she strikes me as one of those people who initially does not accept the fact that they are neurodivergent because they genuinely think they are acting like all neurotypicals do. And fail to realize that they are not in fact acting like neurotypicals at all😭 but to be fair she's kinda like that with... everything. If you asked her if her childhood was traumatic she'd deadass look back on The Horrors and tell you "I mean I turned out fine" with a straight face. GIRL YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OVER HUNDREDS OF MANNEQUINS THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YOU AND YOU RUN INTO THE DARK AT THE SLIGHTEST UNKNOWN MOVEMENT WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU TURNED OUT FINE (ignoring the cannibalism business for a second LMAO😭)
The Lady knows many things, so I don't doubt that she is aware of at least the most well known symptoms. She will read through them and be like "ah, this doesn't concern me" without realizing that her entire childhood and adolescence was spent trying to learn social cues and how to react to them in a way deemed "acceptable". Her mask is not just a mask she's literally masking😭 I figured she'd be exhausted because of it, which is one of them many reasons why she prefers to spend most of her time alone and resting. Masking is EXHAUSTING.
She's the autism creature incarnate I think look at her
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rasp-passion-two · 4 years
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Hello, sorry if this is annoying but can you explain how Himiko is neurodivirgent, I don't mean to come off as rude or anything, I just don't know much about the topic and am curious? Sorry to cause any trouble.
It’s absolutely not any trouble!! I love talking about how Himiko shows signs of being neurodivergent. It hits close to home specifically since not only is she one of my favorite characters, but I relate to her a lot. Okay, this might be a bit long, so sorry about that lol:
So in case you don’t know exactly what it is, neurodiversity is when mentally your brain is wired differently than normal, or “neurotypical”, peoples brains. Especially with considerably easy functions like socialising, thinking, learning, developing or ageing, and many others. Many disorders can fall under the neurodiversity spectrum. ADHD, BPD, autism spectrum disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, dyslexia, and many others.
Personally, I think Himiko would fall into the category of being autistic, which has a lot going into it, but can be summed up as a developmental disorder that involves delays in communication, thinking, social situations, and basic human understanding.
Though there is a thread on Twitter that does a good job covering certain criterias that I won’t end up covering (her lack of understanding of social cues, development delays, the reason why she’s depressed, etc.) and it’s really good!!
Below, I’ll list the traits that, in my opinion, Himiko possesses that are common in ND people. Not all of them will be listed, just the bigger ones:
Talking in a slow, almost “emotionless” way
Himiko talks a certain way throughout the whole of the game, rarely ever changing even when she’s expressing very strong emotions. From the very first line she speaks, Himiko talks about something exciting to her, but still sounds very flat and unenthused. Most ND people will always speak in the same tone of voice no matter what. Sometimes, it's very flat and monotone, like Himikos. Sometimes they'll speak slowly either to gather together what they want to say next, or that's just how they were wired to speak. (Almost exactly like Jataro from DR:AE who speaks in a similar way. Who also has a few neurodivergent traits. But that's just a theory c:)
Childish behavior
This usually ranges, but Himiko has a few traits that neurodivergent people have that others consider “too childish”. She’s extremely naive in how she perceives the world, people around her, and their intentions with interacting with her. Like when Kaito asked her to bring her a crossbow of all things and it takes little for her to be convinced to assist him. Or when Kokichi makes fun of her, and she doesn't always gets it. She's sometimes able to understand, but mostly she doesn't understand that he's just taking advantage of her innocence to treat her how he does with others. She takes things everyone says at face value and believes them easily. Her peers consider her to be a bit slow in many areas, almost in a childlike way. She almost has a child-level understanding of vocabulary (i.e. pronounces words the way children do like how the way she says magic almost sounds like “myagic”, her vocabulary is pretty limited, and she usually starts using certain words that she hears others use). When having her Master brought up with the possibility that he left her selfishly and that she was better than him, she always denies it, keeping an innocent mentality so she won’t feel too bad. After being motivated to move forward, she’s seen a lot to want to be helpful to the group and do something useful, and in return they, in my opinion, view that behavior how older people view a child wanting to be helpful to them. The thread above goes more into detail (her bathroom issues, having a unique way of remembering and referring to objects), but these are only some of the examples for Himiko's maturity.
Being a “gifted child” when she was young
This is entirely my speculation since this is never addressed in canon, but Himiko strikes me as a former “gifted child” which most NDs go through. Her “gift” was discovered at a young age and she was really skilled at it. She was known for it by huge masses of people and praised for it. She even had to save the person who saw the talent in her and taught her everything she knows about it when he made a mistake. She gets invited to all types of events because of it. Lot’s of ND kids who were thought of as “gifted'' may have gone through the same thing. It would also explain why she’s so depressed and unmotivated through most of the game, as a result of what’s called “gifted child syndrome”. Having so much praise and expectations set on her so young. Getting older and not having the same energy for it as you had before. Technically all the DR kids are former gifted children, since they're the product of a company exploiting their "gifts", which is a factor in how the world ended in the way it was. But Himiko has more, you could say "traditional" symptoms and after-effects of growing up as a gifted child (depressed, lack of motivation, lack of motivation in her subject, etc.).
Being viewed as lazy
Even though she takes what she's passionate about seriously, less than when she was younger or not, Himiko doesn't always take action with magic, and even everyday tasks. ND people usually lack any sort of drive, sometimes having an “I’ll come back to it later” mentality, excited about it or not. Himiko lacks any drive and motivation throughout the game, even at the idea of being killed, or put in the line of suspicion for someone's killer. She’ll always make excuses on why she can’t act on things, the most common being “she doesn’t have enough MP”. Which goes back to her talent as a magician, which she is especially sluggish in.
Bottling in her emotions and not wanting them to show. But when she does, it results in an on-going meltdown
We all saw it in its prime during the end of the third trial after all, right? Himiko was sort of always closed in, but it wasn't extreme since she hadn't hit her lowest yet. When she did though, (being the prime suspect of Ryoma dying, her closest friends Tenko and Angie dying, being one of the suspects of one of their murders, etc.) She still attempted to hold it all in, which ND people do for a variety of reasons (not knowing how to process extreme emotions, not wanting too much attention by expressing them, or choosing unhealthy ways to process your feelings, amongst others). But once Kokichi called her out for the second time? Not only was everything practically gushing out of her face, but she literally passed out from crying for so long. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that myself, ha. 
The same thing happened in the last trial kind of. Once the truth of the killing game and their identities is revealed, she seems to have a meltdown. It could be from the overwhelmingness of the situation. It could be the amount of "change" of the situation, which she doesn't even remember. It could also be overstimulating tones with the change in environment, the info dumping, and how everyone jumped from topic to topic etc. Meltdowns are normal for ND people, especially since they usually hold in their feelings. Himiko got better at expressing herself, but meltdowns will still happen once something overwhelming occurs (it's a great way to let out steam!!)
Stimming
Stimming is when someone, ND or not, self-stimulates themselves by repeatedly moving in some way either by speaking, moving either themselves or something else, or watching someone else do it. Most of the time, you can see Himiko fidgeting with her fingers or with her hat. Doing something with her hands, which is a form of stimming
Despite that, Himiko most noticeably stims by speaking, as she sometimes repeats stuff others say, sometimes repeats a word in order to comfort herself and her beliefs (saying “it’s magic” over and over, either in retaliation or in general), and has a go-to word that she’ll always use almost every sentence when she doesn’t know what to say, is caught off guard/by surprise, or just when she starts and ends her sentences (y’know like, “nyeh”?).
“Odd” facial features/expressions
This one presents itself a lot in the game and through her design as well. Her lip stays tucked out all the time, her eyes don’t always stay open, and her face often keeps the same expression (tired and kind of bored). Just like when she speaks, even when she's expressing intense emotions, she'll keep a mellow expression. She lifts her hat into the air and not much changes expression-wise. She'll be accusatory to someone and not much changes expression-wise. To certain people she interacts with, they think her face is "weird" since it'll pull in ways it usually doesn't for NT people. It could be because she's trying to force the look on herself so it's more easier for people to read (which is shown to be the case for most people), but it's also possible that it's just how she looks. Since she's older, she has more freedom to make more strategies to have more natural expressions, but it's still off-putting to some of her peers.
The infamous saying, “she comes off as annoying”
Many people know this one well, and Himiko is no different, especially in the earlier chapters. Almost everything stated above is a factor that plays in people's disdain for Himiko, in the game and the fandom. Characters like Shuichi, Kaede, Tenko, and even Angie are one of the only few people who try to understand and adjust to Himiko's behavior in their own method, while everyone else either ignores her, doesn’t take her seriously, or even end up bullying her because of it, not willing to adjust themselves for her specific brand of behavior. Being an obvious target, coming off as weird, being too blunt and coming off as rude (which even caused her having strained relationships with K1-B0, Miu, etc.), sometimes hyperfixating too hard on magic (her “special interest”), all seem to be a reason for people thinking she’s too high maintenance.
,,,this ask sure is a month old isn’t it? retrdfyugihhuyt I am EXTREMELY sorry I answered this so late, but I haven’t been online lately because of moving, but at least I managed to finish this in less than a day lol. It’s long, but I love Himiko, and love all the quirks that make her who she is, and am happy to explain it to others!! I hope this answered your questions either way (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧
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eeee-lye · 6 years
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So I’ve finished Tempests and Slaughter and ... look, I write long, rambling works more about character development than plot, so when I say there’s not enough plot in this book, the context from where I say it matters.
Pierce has never been a tight plotter. She’s better at it in the Circle universe books, where the structures of events in a single book gives a sense of plot that leads to a more definite conclusion (like Sandry’s destroying the murderers at the end of Magic Steps). Many of her Tortall books, though, involve a sequence of events that occur over a period of time, event after event, finally reaching a conclusion at the end of the series, but often stopping mid-series because it seems like a good spot to wrap up (with some character development to make it stick, with varying degrees of success). We’re just not reading Pierce for plot, and I don’t have a problem with this most of the time.
Tempests and Slaughter has no plot and only a very quick “oh this is a romantic relationship” revelation emotional tie-up at the end (not instigated by Arram). It is solely establishing set up for everything that happens before and during The Immortals. Yes, things happen, but there’s no real conclusion, just a tour through many, many scenes that are depictions of magic and growing up and learning with a lot of foreshadowing but not a lot of things actually happening.
(Some of the foreshadowing is utterly enjoyable for old Pierce fans. It’s fun to see Ozorne and Varice interact with each other and Arram, and Pierce’s showing us Tristan, Gissa and their relationship with the three is really cool.)
The major problem here is that Arram Draper is a character to whom things happen, and, honestly? This never a good protagonist makes. There’s gods talking about how he’s destined for great things (he has a sunbird called Preet, which is basically the equivalent of Alanna/Beka’s Faithful/Pounce) but Arram Draper does almost nothing himself. Gods find him. Teachers make decisions for him. His friends find him. He ends up in situations of tempests and slaughter from the actions and decisions of others. I’m honestly racking my brain for more than one or two instances where Arram decided to do anything without someone else deciding for him or pushing him towards it. He doesn’t instigate adventures, he doesn’t try to investigate a certain mystery himself (most of Pierce’s other characters would have tried to solve it instead of leaving it for the next book). Arram does nothing but let the universe push him around, and since the book tells me so unsubtly that he’s destined for great things, it undermines this message--the telling and the showing don’t match up.
That Arram does little of his own will is why there’s no plot. A proactive character who makes decisions, good and bad, generates their own plot. A character who has his decisions made by others and handed to him does not; you just get a character coasting from scene to scene. There’s not even a great sense of character development--you see Arram learn about magic and observe things about Carthak and Ozorne, but very little about himself. One of the two character arc moments that formed the conclusion was handed to us in the first chapter!
I suspect this is meant to contrast the massive changes that Arram makes to become Numair in the next books, but it leaves Tempests and Slaughter lacking in emotional punch. It’s dull. I was reading just for the foreshadowing, for mentions of Lindhall. I wasn’t reading for the character of Arram Draper, and when compared to every single one of Pierce’s other protagonists, that’s not something I want to say.
I didn’t love Battle Magic, but it’s a much stronger story with an antagonist, a threat, something at stake, and characters who deal with magic and awfulness but don’t walk away unchanged by it. (Plus there’s delightfully polyam and bi Rosethorn.) Tempests and Slaughter doesn’t have a clear antagonist whose actions impact Arram and doesn’t have anything at stake for Arram despite the murder and political doings. It’s the Star Wars prequel trilogy of the Tortall verse.
Under the cut, I’m going to talk in slightly spoilerish fashion about mental illness and the Tasikhe family:
Mental illness has a stronger presence here than in most of Pierce’s books, excepting perhaps The Will of the Empress / Battle Magic / Melting Stones. There’s potions made that seem to be the functional equivalent of antidepressants and antipsychotics, purposefully for mood-lifting and calming. I think this is awesome, generally--I’d love to see more fantasy novels with fantastic treatments for mental illnesses. I’d love to see a fantasy protagonist take a potion every night or morning to manage their symptoms, just like I do.
But. When the only characters seen using these potions are from the Tasikhe family (Ozorne and his mother) and are generally depicted as unstable, racist and violent, and when Ozorne is a damn series antagonist, I have one hell of a problem.
(There’s also the fact that one of the characters giving Ozorne’s potion is Very Clearly Up To No Good, which leaves me wondering if the potion is meant to damage or harm Ozorne long term. That connotation, as it maps to psychiatric meds, is troubling to say the least.)
There are no other characters written as mentally ill in the same way. Arram is clearly ND-coded, written as distractible, narrowly-focused, shy, anxious, awkward--a healer character makes a comment about his mind being a singular place that reads, to me, straight from the autism playbook. Arram, though, isn’t written as unstable in the way Ozorne is, and at no point is Arram’s neurodiversity ever named; at no point is he shown getting support for it. It isn’t treated in the same way as seeing Ozorne being given a potion that settles his depression symptoms enough that he can return to more normal functioning.
Ozorne has some degree of PTSD from his father’s death and depression, specifically seasonal affective disorder, although it’s forgotten about in the later stages of the book. He is a reasonably good depiction of depression earlier on, but also prone to rage and violence towards anyone remotely connected to the ethnicity of the people who killed his father. I’m far too white to speak properly on this, but I’m not liking the approach of giving a racist character a “you people killed my father” backstory justifying his racism. What I can speak on is the fact that we’ve got a mentally ill character who is racist, violent and hateful, and while mental illness never stops one from being racist (and we white mentally-ill folks need to not use mental illness as an excuse) it is dangerous to associate mental illness with violence the way it is in Ozorne and his mother.
People with mental illnesses are more like to be the victims of violence than its perpetrators, yet here we are getting characters who are visibly mentally ill, to the point of needing treatment--one of whom will become an antagonist who does some horrifically terrible things during The Immortals. We’re getting another character, treated similarly to Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars prequels, who is written as even more obviously and unambiguously mentally ill because it is inconceivable that anyone without mental illness can be a violent, lethal series antagonist, and as a mentally ill person, I am so not okay with this.
This is a carryover from The Immortals, but it is so damn unnecessary. Ozorne did not need to be mentally ill. He didn’t need to be written as a mentally ill character, undergoing the treatment of a mentally ill character. He could have been written as a racist would-be conqueror without any suggestion of mental illness; I don’t believe it would have changed his character arc at all.
Given that Pierce writes YA, and given that she’s written suggestions in the Circle universe of mental illness and its treatment being more normalised (at least with regards to trauma/PTSD), I think she’s done mentally ill teenagers a massive injustice here. Teens with depression and SAD do not need to see a character who has their symptoms and experiences being built up to be a series antagonist who wrecks destruction and violence.
It’s ableism, and given that this is the set up and where Ozorne’s character must go, I’m doubtful it’ll get any less ableist.
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