she/her, 20 - will not respond to comments that do not apply to whatever I’m talking about or which aren’t actually helpful criticisms of my arguments
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calling every gnc cis person you see an "egg waiting to crack" even as a joke is not cool or funny at all actually it is extremely invasive and weird and you are just reinventing gender roles but making it "progressive"
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Ace History Day! Please click the links if you want to more clearly see the posts.
Time to Learn about The History of “The A” and AVEN’s Response to that:
On May 11th 2003, AVEN User whirlygirl suggested “hi group, if we could add an ‘A’ to the end of the LGBT, we could help add ourselves to the list minority groups.” Implying at that point in history (over a decade after LGBT as an acronym came into existence), there was no “A for Aro/Ace”
3 Hours Later, David Jay brags about how at his school, he got the A included and in a really “cool” way!! He put f*g in the acronym, with “asexual” (not aro) as the A! He also included BDSM in the community, just cause. What a cool dude.
Hours later during the morning of the next day, AVEN User VivreEstEsperer, Kate, tells him, hey, the a is already for allies, isn’t that confusing. This comment implies that, wow, the A really WAS for allies before this mess. Strange?? Almost… as if there’s a long history of allies being in the acronym.
Over 12 hours later, David Jay acknowledges the importance of Allies but says they don’t go under the A! Allies are Q for Queer because allies ~queer heteronormativity.
Days later, Kate is confused. “ What do you mean, out to mess with heteronormativity? I know what the term means but Im confused as to what you mean by it, in this context. You’re, and most of us on this board, an ally yourself… you’re not gay but still ally yourself with the “gay cause” and such, its the next best thing to having an asexual movement and all. So how can you say you dont exist? did you mean by that statement that all allies are not heterosexual? cus that certainly wouldnt be true.
*confused*
Kate”
David Jay does not reply to her pointing out that David Jay is just an ally. Awkward. Time passes, even more ace folk chime in on the then growing debate and admit, “The A is for Ally, the LGBT community doesn’t even know we exist. Just change the acronym to GRSM or Mogai.”
Over a Decade after the original thread, in 2015, GLAAD launches the twitter campaign #GotYourBack saying “A is for Allies,” encouraging allies to actually support LGBT folk. Ironically enough, it calls out people uncomfortable with LGBT PDA and asks them to do something about it. AVEN responds in horror and starts the #GiveItBack campaign, a controversial move not everyone agreed with. GLAAD gave in after a couple days of harassment and issued a statement, which AVEN commented on. Everyone there is convinced that the A has always been for Asexual. Only now it’s not just Asexual, it’s also for Aromantic and Agender too.
What a leap ten years can do! It progressed so much they accused an LGBT community of STEALING the A and making it about Allies. Amazing!!
Started from recognizing that The A is for Ally, now we’re acting like that never happened.
Never forget that David Jay and the Ace community once acknowledged that the A is for Allies but decided, a decade later, to act like the A was stolen from.
Turns out, The A was for Ahistorical all along.
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i think alot of lgbt discourse online exists because people have forgetton that the reason labels like “lesbian” “bisexual” or “transgender” exist is because there was large amount of people who had a shared experience that required a community and hence a label. which is why you get community’s like mogai which are obsessed with microlabeling every single lived experience in a way that’s extremely unhelpful in forming communities, examining one’s personal identity or actually how certain groups face real life oppression, and it’s also why you get people who think all labels are stupid and useless and why we should just all just call ourselves “queer” when that’s also unhelpful and reductive and sucks the nuance of sexuality and gender.
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"You can choose to be queer."
I don't want to hear "oh I can't choose my sexuality," "oh I can't choose my gender" anymore.
It's bullshit.
If aces can teach us anything, it's that you do not need to be sexually attracted to someone to have sex with them, let along to date them. Sex workers and sluts (complimentary, admiring) also know this and can teach us.
If you are a cis woman dating cis men and complaining about it, that is a choice you are making. And the beauty of this fact is that it means you could choose differently.
You are not a victim of your birth. Your fate is not predetermined. You were not born this way.
Everyday you make decisions to pursue (or not pursue) cishet relationships, and if you so desire, you could choose differently.
It's a travesty that people can say in the same breath that gender is constructed, and that they were born cis or trans or straight or gay or whatever.
Gender is a performance. That means cis-gender as much as trans-gender. And if we follow this reasoning to its logical conclusion, we can see that heterosexuality is just as much of a performance. How can you be inherently, fundamentally heterosexual if gender doesn't exist in a static, external, fundamental way? It doesn't add up.
You can choose differently; we all can.
The game is fake. The stakes - the stakes are real. It's not an accident or a personal moral failing to be straight or cis. There is an entire society, a network of institutional power coercing you to be this way.
Be suspicious of your own desires! Critically examine your internal thoughts and feelings, to find the difference between what you truly desire and what desires were implanted in you through social conditioning. When your desires seem to align with dominant systems of power and supremacy, be extra suspicious of your own mind!
Let yourself explore, daydream, experiment. If you've never even let yourself imagine a different way of organizing your life, how can you know what you truly desire?
It's 2024. You can choose to be queer. You can choose to push back against hegemonic, supremacist culture. You can reject everything you thought you knew about yourself and build a new identity from scratch, if you wish. You can love in new and expansive ways.
It's not easy, but it might be worth it.
#re prev tags >#and before the entire internet comes for me#I am trans and queer and ace#and I did choose to be this way and I will always fight for autonomy and self-determination for all#< no one chooses their gender/sexuality. you can choose what you make of it but you can't actually change it.#and being in x minority group doesn't stop anyone spouting anti-x rhetoric so...#also wild to compare sex work (as in someone has a financial obligation to have sex) to sex where no one should feel any such obligation???
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If you are trying to claim that aphobia, as a systemic system of oppression wherein *all* non-ace people benefit from the oppression of asexuals, is real at the same time as claiming that there is such a thing as a sex favourable asexual you have defeated your point.
If asexuality is a spectrum of how much one gets turned on, then it is closer to hair color in terms of systemic oppression. That is to say, there is no systemic oppression and any bigotry aimed towards those groups is likely tied to some other system of oppression or merely an individual being hateful.
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So is regular lesbianism just. Not inclusive of trans women and nonbinary people?
This is what I mean when I say bi-lesbian and mspec-lesbian pushers are being transphobic!!! Newsflash asshole! Lesbianism has included trans women and sapphic-comfortable nonbinary people the whole time!!!! My god!!!
You people want to paint lesbians as transphobes so bad. You can't imagine a lesbian who isn't transphobic. Imagining a trans lesbian would explode your brain.
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The instances where pansexuality has been represented in the mainstream by shows (not limited to Big Mouth) or various celebrities who have come out as pan - most recently, Wayne Brady comparing being pansexual to "being bisexual with an open mind" - often other trans people in a really weird way and box bisexuality into something more limited than it really is or needs to be.
There are several common differences posed between bi vs pan which I'll try to speedrun through:
"Bisexuals only like cis people, pansexuals also like trans people" = transphobic by assuming that cis and trans people are clockable as such
"Bisexuals only like men/women, pansexuals also like non-binary people" = similarly asserts that gender is something which can be identified on some level, which just isn't true (you may be able to assume based on clothing/styling, but this is still an assumption and not a definite method), and also poses non-binary identities as removed from binary identities (even though some non-binary people do consider themselves to be connected to manhood/womanhood)
"Bisexuals like 2+ genders, pansexuals like all genders" = same problem as last time
The least offensive stance is the idea that pansexuality is bisexuality without a preference. This is such an arbitrary difference - for example, how much more different could the experiences of a homoflexible bi woman be to another homoflexible bi woman than to some other bi person, and how different are the resources they may need? - and yet some people with this stance still assert that bisexuality must always include a preference.
Here are some sources that I've come to understand bisexuality through:
"Being bisexual [means ...] that they are capable of meaningful and intimate involvement with a person regardless of gender." ~ View From Another Closet (1977)
"I am bisexual because I am drawn to particular people regardless of gender." ~ The Bisexual Community: Are We Visible Yet? (1978)
"To be bisexual is to have the potential to be open emotionally and sexually to people as people, regardless of their gender." ~ Bisexual Lives (1988)
"Similarly, the modern bisexual movement has dissolved the strict dichotomy between 'gay' and 'straight' (without invalidating our homosexual or heterosexual friends and lovers.) We have insisted on our desire and freedom to love people of all genders." ~ Bisexual Politics (1995)
"This lgbtqia+ microlabel discourse doesn't exist outside of online spaces!!!" Um, I don't tend to tell my social circles about my issues with ace/aro and mspec microlabels, mainly because I'd probably get isolated from lgbt+ spaces, which I want to contribute to and be able to find support in. But I do witness the trash thinking that online discourse has fostered so it's not entirely online now, is it?
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3 Common Misconceptions About Bisexuality
The prefix "Bi" in Bisexual means "attraction to two genders"
The prefix "Bi" refers to the two types of attractions: homosexuality and heterosexuality, not genders.
Bisexuality is a sexual orientation defined as being sexually attracted to both sexes (male and female).
This does not insinuate that bisexuals are exclusively attracted to two genders. Bisexuality is about attraction to both sexes regardless of an individual's gender identity.
Bisexuality is inherently transphobic
Bisexuality has always and will always include(d) transsexual individuals.
Transsexual individuals are not some "other" thing, they are still either male or female.
Bisexuality HAS to have preferences
Depending on the person, someone who is bisexual may or may not have preferences.
Bisexuals do not need a preference in order to be bisexual and valid. Not having a preference doesn't automatically mean you are pansexual or another "m-spec" identity, same with being attracted to transsexual individuals.
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Asexuals that experience sexual attraction...aren't asexual lol
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hey is it just me or should we be making a huge fucking deal over tumblr staff deleting a video that debunks IOF propaganda
(and while I'm at it here is the YouTube link to the video also. ive been trying to save/access it in the wayback machine to link that instead for archiving purposes but I'm having difficulties so I'll try and add it later but if anyone else is able to add it sooner it's appreciated)
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"In real life, no one cares about messy, contradictory identities!" In real life when a random stranger tells me something that doesn't make sense, I nod awkwardly but internally try to figure out what they're on about.
#my words#c'est... how you say... giving minimal output so you don't have to continue the conversation
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“actually the term you’re looking for is pansexual” actually i’m dying right now. i am dying right now before your very eyes and those are the last words i had to read before my soul vacates this plane of existence forever. Are you proud of yourself
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This whole thing about people being so defensive about "lesbians can have sex with men" is just...so pointless
Like yeah, nothing is stopping someone from fucking men and calling themselves a lesbian. But it's still fucking stupid and most people (including allies with a basic grasp of lgbt+ politics) will say that.
Not to mention like yeah, it certain situations it can happen (surrogacy if they dont have money for IVF, sex work, having sex with men before they find out they're lesbians) but those are exceptions. If you identify as a lesbian and actively go out of your way to have sex with men AND ENJOY IT (this one's the key), you're not a lesbian. Plain and simple. This isn't gatekeeping, and just because its exclusionary doesn't mean it's a bad thing. There are plenty of other labels for you to use that can include you. Just leave lesbians alone. Your actions don't exist in a vacuum
#also gay men having sex with women and lesbians having sex with men can be sometimes they do to self-harm?#like... do these people not realise what they're supporting?
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"I feel so alienated from pride, all of this "love is love" stuff doesn't apply to me! Where's my representation?!" Hmmmm maybe that's because it's not for you? And it's not supposed to apply to you? Just a thought idk
#ace discourse#people aren't as cruel about platonic love as they are about romantic/sexual love#this extends beyond the lgbt community to interracial/faith/class couples#and others i'm probably forgetting
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