Would you be able to elaborate on your statement about the pseudo sexual imagery of the Everlark pearl? I hadn’t really considered the pearl from that angle before and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

In response to this post So firstly, this in NO WAY takes away from the other symbolism present in the pearl. This is in ADDITION to, NOT instead of. In fact, lemme go into it all from my perspective, although I know MANY creators have expressed a lot of this much more eloquently than I will! PEARLS AS THEY RELATE TO THE CAPITOL

i always viewed the presence of the pearls on Katniss' capitol wedding dress as twofold. Firstly, it speaks of the opulence and extreme perceived wealth of the Capitol. To have a dress adorned with chains of pearls - what a symbol of luxury! I also viewed them as binding/chains. A representation of the "freedom" of the victors. The trappings of their wealth while living under the thumb of the Capitol. Their chains aren't metal, they're beautiful and delicate but still present and just as deadly. Like a gentle hand on their throats.

PEARLS AS THEY RELATE TO PEETA In direct contrast to the Capitol pearls, the pearl Peeta gives Katniss is singular. It isn't purchased, it is found. It is found in a space where Peeta has nothing else to give to Katniss, other than his life. Instead of a chain or a burden it is meant as his symbol of freedom to her, in conjunction with the locket - "I give you fully back to your family. To the people who love and need you. I let you go, but this, here is something to remember me by." (And I also love how it's representative of Peeta's ability to find pieces of beauty in the most horrific of circumstances.) KATNISS' MENTAL CONNECTION OF PEETA AND THE PEARL We also know that, during Peeta's capture, Katniss connects this pearl heavily with Peeta's life and her need to protect it. "Tomorrow morning, I'm going to agree to be the Mockingjay." I tell her. "Because you want to or because you feel forced into it?" she asks. I laugh a little. "Both, I guess. No. I want to. I have to, if it will help the rebels defeat Snow." I squeeze the pearl more tightly in my fist. "It's just...Peeta. I'm afraid if we do win, the rebels will execute him as a traitor." I slip the pearl from the drawer and spend a second sleepless night clutching it in my hand, replaying Peeta's words in my head. "Ask yourself, do you really trust the people you're working with?" I knot the pearl into the corner of the parachute, bury it deep in the recesses of the bag, as if it's Peeta's life and no one can take it away as long as I guard it. Then, later, when Peeta returns and is found to be hijacked, his essence and personhood taken from him and from HER - the Pearl becomes a symbol of the boy she lost and everything he isn't anymore. Then she finds the pearl Peeta gave me. "Is this-?" "Yeah," I say. "Made it through somehow." I don't want to talk about Peeta. One of the best things about training is, it keeps me from thinking of him. "Haymitch says he's getting better," she says. "Maybe. But he's changed," I say. I consider saying a final good-bye to Peeta, decide it would only be bad for both of us. But I do slip the pearl into the pocket of my uniform. A token of the boy with the bread. And, finally, when in the Capitol, in the last mention of the pearl, we connect it with his literal LIFE in Katniss' HANDS. (And Peeta's unwillingness to risk Katniss' life even for his freedom.) "Should we free his hands?" asks Leeg 1. "No!" Peeta growls at her, drawing his cuffs in close to his body. "No," I echo. "But I want the key." Jackson passes it over without a word. I slip it into my pants pocket, where it clicks against the pearl."

And, finally, here we go: THE PEARL AS IT RELATES TO KATNISS' SEXUAL AWAKENING It is no coincidence, to me, that the pearl is gifted from Peeta to Katniss following the events of the kiss on the beach. Katniss has now admitted to herself that Peeta holds sexual currency with her. Her body is reactive to his own and feeds a hunger in her, a flame. The giving and acceptance of the pearl can be viewed as the "tender" of that sexual currency. Katniss ALSO thinks of the pearl as it relates to Peeta in the ways that Peeta was able to make her PHYSICALLY feel. She connects it with both what she felt with him that night on the beach, and what she HOPES to feel with him upon his return. (And what she misses when he is "lost" to her.) I feel around for the parachute and slide my fingers inside until they close around the pearl. I sit back on my bed cross-legged and find myself rubbing the smooth iridescent surface of the pearl back and forth against my lips. For some reason, it's soothing. A cool kiss from the giver himself. I take the pearl from where it lives in my pocket and try to remember the boy with the bread, the strong arms that warded off nightmares on the train, the kisses in the arena. To make myself put a name to the thing I've lost. But what's the use? It's gone. He's gone. Whatever existed between us is gone.

all I'm saying is that Peeta would literally pass out if he ever hears about how she basically kept rubbing one out in 13 to thoughts of him. (Because, let's be real. That's what the symbolism of the pearl was.) Rolling the pearl between her fingers? Kissing it to her lips? COME ON. It's so on the nose. (Or clit in this case.) 🦪😏

literally my dream 🙏

this is the closest you can get to experiencing a jumpscare on social media

What would have happened if

1. Katniss didn't volunteer for Prim, so Prim and Peeta compete in 74th Games.

2. Gale and Katniss compete.

3. Katniss and Peeta's brother compete. Before, he volunteered for Peeta.

The Questions :

A.What strategy would Haymitch made for District 12?

B.What would Katniss do to them? Would she become an ally with those 2 boys?

C.Who would be the winner in the end?

Thank you so much :)

@curiousnonny

You have ZERO idea how much I’ve thought about the first question.

Let’s start from the beginning: they’re reaped. they get to the capitol. I think that their outfits would have stayed the same, so they would’ve made the same kind of statement before the games and had a fair bit of attention.

next, training. I think Peeta and Prim would still spend a lot of time together, like an older brother and younger sister bond. Prim might not know him as well, and Peeta might not know her as well, but I think they’d still want the best for each other, and of course Peeta would want to protect Prim as much as possible (both for Katniss’ sake and because he’s a good person).

For the personal training score thing, Peeta would probably get the same score, and I’m guessing Prim would show off her healing knowledge as much as she could and maybe score a 6-8, if she’s lucky, or a 4 if not. Either way, it wouldn’t be like Katniss’ 11, but enough to get some attention.

Now, the interviews. I think Prim would play up her medical aspect, how she has that advantage despite being so young, and talk a fair bit about Katniss and her protection (that she now doesn’t have). I think she’d gain a fair bit of sympathy for it, and while maybe not thought of as a victor, she’d still be seen as useful and not completely discredited.

Then Peeta comes in. I think he’d still be just as charming and all, and when Flickerman asks him about girls again, his answer will stay the same. Prim will probably believe it way better than Katniss did honestly, and I think that they could maybe bond over it, and Prim would probably think it was funny.

Peeta would still have managed to intrigue the viewers, and while it wouldn’t be as fun watching the love story play out, it’d still be cool. I think Katniss would probably be interviewed earlier than the last 8 tributes, or after Peeta gets in a troubling spot (but not with the careers- I’ll get to that later) (side note I just almost called them death eaters and earlier almost called the capitol the hallow this is a PROBLEM atp).

Katniss’ response would probably be something like, “I’ve always appreciated Peeta, and am so thankful he can look after my sister. I want her home safe.” Or something like that- not denying her and Peeta, but focusing the attention back to Prim, because she knows how this works and needs Prim to stay relevant and not be overshadowed so much that people want Peeta to win instead of her so he can get home to Katniss.

In the actual games, I think Peeta would stay with Prim, who would’ve made friends with Rue during training. Omg I totally forgot about Rue.

I think Prim and Rue would’ve become friends with each other during training after both trying to observe each other because they’re both so young. I think Peeta would’ve stuck with both of them.

So yeah, I know it’s probably annoying to the Peeta-haters to paint him as this kid defender/protecter, but I genuinely believe that’s what he’d do.

During the arena, I can only guess at. I think Rue would’ve tried to show them her hiding spots, and Prim tried to show Peeta what Katniss had showed her about hunting, but they would’ve had to find some in between and probably gone for something in the middle for both of them (maybe 40ft off ground instead of 80ft, and only foraging).

I think they would’ve made it pretty far tbh, like to the top 12 given all their combined skills, but anything past that I can only guess at. Yes, I should probably be trying to be more creative, but it’s so open and I don’t think Prim would be comfortable going after to KILL the careers nor do I think any of them would know about the hoard of food or stuff.

In the end, I think Peeta would’ve died first, or it would’ve been like what happened with Rue and Katniss. If that happened with either Prim or Rue, Peeta would still try his best to get the other one to make it to the end, and if it came down to the two of them I think he would’ve let the other one win.

Honestly though, I have pretty good hopes for their little group, especially Rue now that she’s with far less bold people. So I think the victor that year would either be Prim, Rue, or a career. Slim chance for Peeta, and the 2 people if from the same district never would’ve been inacted if this happened.

Katniss and Gale I really feel like depends. If they were both reaped, that would’ve sucked, so I’ll get to that later. If Gale had VOLUNTEERED for Peeta…well let’s just say he wouldn’t want to do that.

See, I think Katniss literally thinks about this. She’d never forgive him for not taking care of Prim while she was gone. Especially CHOOSING to follow her to a death arena. Look at how mad she got at Peeta for saying he liked her- this would basically be a bigger version of that, and he knows her so much better (or they both think he does), so it would hurt more.

I think Katniss would’ve just been so angry with him for the train ride and training Haymitch nor Cinna could’ve done anything about it, and just painted them as adversaries instead (although Gale wouldn’t be helping this). Katniss’ training would’ve gone about the same, and I’m guessing Gale could’ve pulled a score anywhere in the 8-10 range.

Now, I think the interviews would decide how the rest of the games would go. I think Katniss’ would’ve gone about the same, except with maybe a jab at Gale because he was supposed to stay and protect her sister. I don’t think she would’ve gone overboard with it though, because there was still that part of her that wanted to protect him, even if he’d done this.

And then Gale’s interview I have two thoughts for.

Possibility one- his hatred of the games overcomes his love & desire to win Katniss back. He sits completely silently the entire interview, not interacting with or acknowledging Ceaser or the audience the entire time. This would earn him points with sponsors, but not the capital because of the rebellion aspect.

Possiblity two (less likely)- his love and desire to win Katniss back overtakes his hatred of the games, and while he does spend time playing up his benefits (to appeal himself), he does ask for her back. During Katniss’ interview, she would’ve put her foot DOWN on this and honestly probably refused to answer anything about him, bringing the attention back to her and her skills.

In the arena, I think Gale would’ve spent like the first day trying to find Katniss, but because Peeta wasn’t there to distract her Katniss would also have her bow, so he would’ve left soon enough after realizing this.

Katniss’ journey may have stayed mostly the same, with the careers after her, except this time Gale might’ve joined them for REAL instead of Peeta (if it was the first version of the interviews). Not to mention, he would’ve known the look in the trees, and would know it was her shooting that got her the 11 (by deducing it- Katniss definitely wouldn’t have told him).

If it had come down to Katniss and Gale, I think Katniss would’ve offered the berries again tbh (if she still had them). She holds many grudges, sure, but I think she would’ve cared about Gale’s family too much to just kill him, and again, he’s her best friend. I think Gale would’ve accepted, but let her eat the berries, thinking she was doing that to him.

Honestly, there are so many possibilities for this, and I don’t think I know Gale’s character enough to fully explain and predict him lmao.

If Katniss and Peeta’s brother competed, my best guess is it would be just like a normal hunger games for her. She wouldn’t go after him, he probably wouldn’t go after her, and they would mostly not interact imo. Maybe there’d be something about Peeta’s brother trying to steal her attention, and it’s only main outcome different than the original would be stirring up more attention for d12 in the reaping.

Geez I really need to start reading questions fully before answering. I think I mostly did though, but for the Haymitch thing, I feel like it’d just depend on how they felt about stuff. He’d probably just drink for Katniss and Peeta’s brother, but be more focused with Prim & Peeta and Katniss & Gale due to the more drama.

Really interesting question to explore, so thanks, @curiousnonny ! As always, feel free to debate and discuss other possibilities in the replies/reblogs- I’d LOVE to hear y’all’s ideas for it.

Completely agree with the list down and below, but the movie adaptation? good?

The movies lowkey destroyed the plot (in my opinion at least- I mean no disrespect to yours).

The pacing of the games (before and during) was off, they didn’t even kiss until after the games, they had like 3 days to fall in love, the movie was changed from the book to be more exciting (the opening fight scene), weird unnecessary details being added to make it more enticing (Coriolanus bribing the guards, who Lucy Gray kills & how, etc), Lucy Gray's final dance with death and Reaper being cut our for him to die with the snakes, Clemensia’s entire character was slaughtered, along with Coriolanus’ relationship with Festus, and Coriolanus’ relationship with Sejanus was very changed. While these aren’t all plot important, I think they still tie in and werent done well enough to give the book justice.

it definitely had its moments, don’t get me wrong (Tigris, Sejanus’ death scene & how Coriolanus handled it, the songs omg, etc) but I think plot wise it’d be overkill to call it a good adaptation. At what it was, I don’t even think I’d be able to call it a good movie, given how many people I know who hadn’t read the books and were confused by it.

feel completely free to debate this lol, and again sorry if I come across as mean or attacking.

The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes was an excellent movie adaptation plot wise. It also solidified to me 2 reasons why Snow knew Katniss was such a threat beyond the basics and they were that

He recognized Haymitch as a mentor rewarding romantic behavior within the arena with sponsored gifts because a) it was his idea and b) before the drone system was perfected he saw how mentors themselves could technically follow rules while influencing the games and

He noticed how much sympathy and connection the Capitol citizens could form with the Tributes from all the nurses crying at Lucy Gray’s “last performance” to his entire class chanting to get her out of the arena which forced someone as influential as Dr. Gaul to listen

Snow’s not an idiot he knows Katniss herself held very little power at least at the beginning. But he instantly recognized how her story could be marketed and used to turn both District and Capitol citizens against him especially by people like Haymitch or Coin who knew what they were doing

you’re freaking kidding me posca (as in the drink served in tbosas) was an actual cheap alcoholic drink in the Roman Empire.

Suzanne Collins you’re a genius.

Lucy Gray Baird - an innocent victim or a manipulator?

What's your first impression of Lucy Gray?

Do you think she loved Coriolanus in tbosas?

What do you think might have happened to Lucy Gray in the end?

What's your opinion about theories :

1. Greasy Sae as Lucy Gray.

2. Coin as a daughter or relative of Lucy Gray.

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

I’d say a victim who HAD to be a manipulator, but overall was innocent and just knew what was up.

The first example we see is from when we are first introduced to her- the dress! She’s wearing that to the reaping to make a statement, to stand out, to let everyone know she does NOT conform and is already manipulating their view of her into what she wants.

However, later on, we also see that wearing the dress is the only thing keeping her together. So, we can infer that while it may have started out as something not super soft or sweet, suddenly the dress isn’t that anymore. There’s also the fact that she lets the little girl with the juice thing touch her dress- she’s trying to decide if the public and her manipulation of them is more important than keeping things close to her.

Then again, there’s the possibility here that we’re severely over or underestimating her (thanks, Coriolanus’ POV). Maybe every single part of her was orchestrated and carefully chosen by Lucy Gray, or maybe none of it was, and that’s part of the amazing mystery about her- we don’t KNOW if she was or not.

Were those tears fake? Did she ever actually love him? We’ll never actually know, and that’s part of why her character is so great.

My first impression though is she knows what’s up. It’s crazy how, even before manipulating the games was a thing…she manipulated the games. She might not have done it knowingly (it was probably more for the benefit against Billy Taupe & Mayfair), but she did, and it was incredible. I can’t say I ever thought she was crazy, but maybe a little unhinged.

I was also VERY against Coriolanus and Lucy Gray’s relationship in the beginning (like for my first 4 rereads), but overall came to like it, and how it shows different parts of their characters and how it REALLY showed Coriolanus’s character development into a tirant.

For if she loved him, I’d say that we honestly have no clue. It’s why she’s so interesting to explore. I mean, throughout the series, these characters stay pretty much the same as when they are introduced. Sejanus, the district 2 rebel sympathizer who can be a little goofy occasionally. Tigris, the girl who takes care of people, and protects them. Dr. Gaul, the maniac who’s powerful.

But with Lucy Gray? We’re first introduced to her as some slightly deranged district girl, and she also has that little bit of being district automatically added to how we perceive her (thanks, Coriolanus’ POV) so we automatically view her as less than, crazy, etc.

But this changes. We later view her as someone ABOVE the districts, and a performer, rather than a crazy person, and someone to take pity on. We (reader and Coriolanus) might even unconsciously underestimate her during this stage BECAUSE of this.

What’s super interesting about Lucy Gray is just how versatile the arguments about her can be. You can go around and around in circles, debating if she was a cold blooded killer or not. Like for example, her kills in the arena. The way she taunted Reaper with the flag, and literally ran him to death? Absolutely insane, but later on, she felt bad about it. Or did she? We have no clue.

Back to if she loved Coriolanus, though- I think she convinced herself she did, just like how Coriolanus convinced himself he did, and neither of them wanted to see how far they’d take that so we got the ending we got. Lucy Gray realized she couldn’t gaslight herself into falling in love with him because she couldn’t ever really love him because she couldn’t ever really trust him. I’ve talked about them before somewhere else, I think in a post about the endings, so if you’re interested in that I can link it but still. It’s fascinating, the way her character is written so well.

Dialogue is such an important part of character, and rereading Lucy Gray’s dialogue is especially confusing for me because every time I do, my mind changes. A lot of people would remember her differently if Coriolanus (and therefore us) spent less time thinking about her and more time interacting with her, but eh.

Personally, that’s why I think her most authentic showing would be around 2/3 into the book, while they have that little honeymoon period when Coriolanus is a peacekeeper and she’s just singing before stuff goes down. I know that wasn’t a question, but I want to expand on it.

There’s less pressure there to constantly preform and become this person she wants herself to be. Lucy Gray was one of (if not the) first to use capitol people’s views of the tributes to her advantage. She figured out the game and she played it, and now she has to realize how to stop playing it. She also has to make sure she can trust Coriolanus.

So really, it can be argued that all of her personality is a test or a performance. It can also be argued that none of it was.

I’m going to move on before I start going in circles again lol, but yall get the point.

I think in the end Lucy Gray realized she couldn’t trust ANYONE (and as she’s said before, trust is super important) (except for maybe the Covey, but she didn’t want to endanger them or herself by staying with them), so she just went off into the woods.

I know she said something about being too lonely without Coriolanus, but again, this calls the question; was she trying to manipulate him and play up his ego or was she really just sensitive?

Again, part of her character is her mystery. There’s a reason she’s named after the Lucy Gray from the story. She just…flew off.

I could see Greasy Sae as Lucy Gray. I think it’d make sense for her to come back in like 10 years once the mayor’s dead, pay off her good peacekeeper friends, and then watch the Covey and her/Katniss’ family from a difference (because I definitely believe she and Katniss are related).

Does that mean I think it’s true? Nope! I think Lucy Gray truly has left district 12 forever.

However, I will say for sure, she’s definitely not in district 13. Not as a citizen or Coin. It goes against everything she believes in and enjoys, and I think the citizens of such a recently broken home wouldn’t LET her become one of them. Plus the ages are off. Are we forgetting Coin didn’t want music at Finnick and Annie’s wedding? It’s honestly one of my least favorite theories because to truly believe it, you’d have to misinterpret Lucy Gray’s character (one of the hardest to misinterpret, given my reasons above) AND Coin’s character.

Ok. Sort of misread that question, but I’ll answer it too.

I don’t think Coin is related to Lucy Gray at all. Any child of Lucy Gray’s would be Covey, and I think it’d hurt her too much to raise a child so colorless and unempathetic. While I do admire this theory more than the other, I just don’t see it happening at all. Maybe if Lucy Gray was pregnant, dropped the kid in 13, and then fled, and then Coin had to be raised in that environment and see the destruction and devastation and stuff…or maybe seeing her mom after the games, and the impact they can have on people…still, it’s an eh for me.

This was really fun to answer, and sorry if I rambled too much or went in circles a lot lol. Thanks for the question, @curiousnonny! As always, feel free to debate but not argue in the replies/reblogs!

said perfectly honestly

Has anyone ever notice the similarities bween young Tigris n katniss? Both young, traumatised girl who try everything within their fibre to keep alive n float in a traumatic world for their younger kin. Katniss w her hunting n devotion to raising prim, whereas Tigris gives in sacrifices and ‘sells’ herself to give coriolananus security in food, but also the grandeur n glory that she believes he deserves via insomniac rests to make him beautiful clothing (cuz she loves him like a brother n wants him to have lovely thing).

To ultimately have their sacrifices be futile, to have prim die, ‘she’s gone’ (mj) after katniss has done everything to protect her in/out of the games. n Coriolanus to destroy and become consumed by a greater evil/savagery that hurts tigiris n disgusted her, ‘you look just like your father Coriolanus’ (tbosas), especially knowing much powerless n vulnerable she felt doing out of necessity for survival. Knowing all the ‘work/acts’ she had to do as a teenager to give him food: only to enforce a punishment n exploitation of savage-Capitol-consumerism on traumatised, defenceless, young, victors (teenagers!!) to maintain power and control. Using her up n exploiting her work ‘all until she wasn’t useful/beautiful anymore’ (mj) for him.

As the eldest sister, this hurts me cuz I try everything to make my siblings happy. And after all my protection n sacrifices for their happiness become worthless: I feel like I failed my sister-duties 😭🫠

piggybacking off of this to further explain why the pearl conversation in catching fire is SO important. Peeta is so used to being the second choice, second best liked, second everything, he truly believes he is it (Anyone else would be jealous of it, but honestly I don’t think he harbors anything bad against Katniss for it because he recognizes it isn’t her fault. That also just goes to show how good he is).

the fact that Katniss, someone people continually chose over Peeta, would choose Peeta over herself…like that means SO much, and probably so much for Katniss and Them.

like honestly I think that’s when Peeta started to believe Katniss could (or already does) love him back, because of how important that is to him. If only he hadn’t been hijacked 😔

Peeta talking about his father: 

“Really? Well, he likes you and your sister. I think he wishes he had a daughter instead of a houseful of boys.” (THG, chapter 6)

Peeta talking about his mother:

“You know what my mother said to me when she came to say good-bye, as if to cheer me up, she says maybe District Twelve will finally have a winner. Then I realized, she didn’t mean me, she meant you!” (THG, chapter 7)

Peeta talking about Haymitch:

“Even in the arena, you two had some sort of system worked out, didn’t you?” asks Peeta. His voice is quieter now. “Something I wasn’t part of.”

“No. Not officially. I just could tell what Haymitch wanted me to do by what he sent, or didn’t send,” I say.

“Well, I never had that opportunity. Because he never sent me anything until you showed up,” says Peeta. (CF, chapter 5)

There are many moments where Peeta is, or at least feels, unwanted or second-best. I chose to quote the above examples in particular because they are about Peeta’s parents, or something of a parent figure in Haymitch’s case, and because they are all moments where Peeta is rated second to Katniss. Peeta is such a well-written and realistic character, and this is one area where we can see his complexity. He loves Katniss so much that he is willing to die for her. He puts her above himself, but that doesn’t keep it from hurting when other people do the same. He is not just a simple romantic hero who is brave and self-sacrificing. He has those traits, but he is also an an insecure teenage boy who wants his life to matter and to have others acknowledge his worth, especially those he loves and looks up to.

Peeta wants to be somebody’s first choice. How great is it that he eventually finds that somebody? And it’s Katniss.

For the past year, @curiousthg asks weekly question about THG and TBOSAS.

What's your favorite question(s) so far? Why do you pick it?

What's your suggestion for this year questions?

Which character(s) need more attention or being discussed?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

gotta be the who’s the luckiest/unluckiest character question! I really love looking at characters, and their actions and histories and why they do certain things, so it was really fun to analyze so many of them at once.

I’d maybe do more questions about different characters throughout the story vs just aspects of the story, but of course that’s just me and I don’t mind either.

Honestly? I’d go with Gale. Do I hate him? Whole heartedly, but he’s a fascinating character.

I’d also offer Katniss’ mother, Mags, Clemensia, and honestly any character at all. I could talk about any!

One thing that’s recently interested me in TBOSAS is in Chapter 4, when Coriolanus and Lucy Gray are first dumped into the zoo, Lucy Gray tells him that her left side is better, so Coriolanus starts to guide her to the left.

Normally I kind of just glossed over this, because it was such a tiny detail, but I was doing a reread today and y’all…if he’s guiding her to the left, then her right side is showing. He didn’t know what to do with that information, so he accidentally messes it up.

What a perfect representation of their entire relationship.

Coriolanus doesn’t understand something about Lucy Gray and it messes them up.

This is such a tiny detail that it could honestly be a mistake and oversight, but it’s still so interesting to explore.

this!! they also add that entire drama with Coral, and leave out more of the…mystery to her? In the book she had a lot more depth and it was clear (to me at least) that she loved him, but it could be argued in the movies that it really was just one big act to her and I really dislike that.

One thing I did like though was their reunion scene - that helped a LOT, because I feel like in the books it could be argued that she just recovered from the shock and then disappointment from seeing him quickly, but in the movies Rachel Zegler did an amazing job portraying genuine joy.

Decided to listen to the audio book of The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes because I saw people complaining about how the movie basically made Coriolanus less horrible but they also changed Lucy Gray too. The movie made her more tough and less manipulative (probably to make her more like Katniss). In the book she threw up when that that one tribute got killed and she didn't demand Coriolanus tell her the truth. I mean she was tough but more in a manipulative way (charming way). Hope I'm making sense. Keep in mind I mostly skimmed through the audio book.

I absolutely LOVE this, but I gotta say I feel like while their past might be similar another reason people don’t really count the similarities is because their characters, values, and overall everything is so different. Katniss and Sejanus & Lucy Gray have so many parallels because they’re motivated by family and can appreciate the simple things. Coriolanus can’t. His core value is HIM. Katniss’ values always seem to align with others.

You make an amazing point about this, and their differences in how they take things, but I feel like it makes a lot of sense why people DONT talk about because of how different they are at their core. We’re not defined by our past, and characters shouldn’t be either- we should be defined by (in the worlds of Taylor) the things that we love, and snow & Katniss have never really loved the same things. This is so fascinating to consider though, I hadn’t even noticed how similar their childhoods were.

Katniss is like Lucy Gray this, Katniss is like Sejanus that, and yes find that's all good and true and lovely but Katniss Everdeen is also a direct parallel to Coriolanus Snow and people NEED to start talking about this because it's driving me crazy.

Think about it: they both grew up poor and deeply vulnerable, losing parents at a very young age, with a matriarchal adult (Katniss' mother and Coriolanus' Grandma'am) who fails to provide for them emotionally and physically. They intimately understand the threat of starvation, even developing with stunted growth because of it, and their narrations in the books share a fixation on food. Throughout their childhoods, both experienced constant fear and suffered a fundamental lack of control over their circumstances. Because of this, they're inherently suspicious of the people around them. They resent feeling indebted to others, especially those who have saved their lives. They're motivated almost entirely by family and deeply connected to their communities. Both are used and manipulated by the Capitol, both are forced to perform to survive and despise every inch of it, both are thrown into the Arena and made to kill. Both have a self-sacrificial, genuinely sweet sister figure acting as their conscience. Peeta and Lucy Gray - performers and love interests with a fundamental kindness and sense of hope about them - fulfill markedly similar roles in their narrative. Both contribute to the development of the future Hunger Games, Snow throughout tbosas and Katniss towards the end of Mockingjay.

It's easy to ignore these similarities because, as mirrors of each other, they are exact opposites. Katniss is from District 12, viewed and treated as less than human; Snow is the cream of the Capitol crop, given the privilege of a name with social weight, an ancestral home, and the opportunity of the Academy despite having no more money than a miner from 12. Katniss has no agency over her life, and responds by being kind whenever she's able, while Snow justifies horrendous evils in order to continue his quest for complete control. Katniss does everything she can to protect her family; Snow does everything he can to protect his family's image as an extension of his own ego. Katniss loves her District and connects with its inhabitants on a meaningful level, but Snow is indifferent at best to his peers - the apparent "superior people" - and only engages with his community for personal gain. Katniss emerges from the Arena horrified at herself and the system, but Snow takes his trauma and turns it into an excuse to perpetuate the violence with himself at the top. Katniss cares for Prim until her death and then snaps at the loss of her little sister, while Snow survives on Tigris' blood, sweat, and tears and then torments and abandons her, presumably because she calls him out on his insanity. Snow actively adds to and popularizes the Hunger Games because of his vendetta against the Districts following his childhood wartime trauma - Katniss briefly agrees to a new Hunger Games in the pursuit of vengeance, but later stops them from happening by killing Coin and choosing a life of peace and privacy. Snow is obsessed with revenge, but Katniss empathizes with the Capitolites and does what she can to keep them from suffering. He exists in a cruel system and selfishly upholds it; she exists in a cruel system and works to dismantle it for the good of her family and community, at great personal cost. And Peeta and Lucy Gray are incredibly similar, but Katniss and Peeta forge a relationship of genuine love and understanding that shines in comparison to Coriolanus' obsessive projection onto Lucy Gray.

So, yeah, Katniss is Lucy Gray haunting Coriolanus. But I bet you anything that eighty-something year old President Snow looks at her, the girl on fire, bright and young and brilliant, emerging from a childhood of starvation with a relentless hunger for success, a talented and charming performer helping her win the Games, and he sees the ghost of his own past. And that's why he's so afraid of her! Because if he sees himself in her, then he's up against his own cunning, his own talent for manipulation, his own charisma, his own genius. He's up against the version of himself that he once wished to be, with the nightmare army of his childhood at her back and her star-crossed lover at her side, spewing Sejanus' truths in his own voice. This isn't to say that Katniss ever achieved the level of power and agency that Coriolanus did during her time with the rebellion, but it is to say that Snow was taken down by what truly terrified him - his own morality, come to finish the job.

being hot doesn’t make you a good person!! please guys, think about literally everything wrong with him in the books (which the movies conveniently forgot to include!) before saying shit like this.

and I have only ONE objection to this- Coriolanus DID love Lucy Gray. Or at least thought he did, and we can’t really decipher that down for him. It’s so integral to his character that he experienced the kind of love you choose to fall in love about, because it showed him how dangerous it was. Yes, he was also obsessed with her and wanted to control her, but that is his sick and twisted way of love. That’s what he thinks it is.

all the people sympathising with snow and saying they can't hate him anymore after watching tbosas... y'all let awful white men get away with ANYTHING as long as you find them attractive and it SHOWS

THIS is why I welcome debates but not arguments on any of my analysis. When people try to ARGUE with you, you automatically don’t trust what they say because there’s a demeaning and annoying undertone to how they’re interacting with you. Meanwhile in a DEBATE, it’s structured, and my mind has been changed by them before because it’s fact based and insult free, therefore making you less biased against the person.

the reason I post so much about why I like certain things is because it's a practice I want to keep up with.

I think it's not only important to have your own opinions about things, but to also be able to explain why. it helps me keep my biases in check. if I can't explain why I like or dislike something that means I accepted something unquestionably. in that scenario I then take extra care forming my own opinions on that topic.

sometimes the biases can be justified like when learning from someone who is an authority on the subject.

Have you seen the prequel movie? If yes🌹>>>

A. In your opinion, please rate TBOSAS movie with 1-10 scale.

(1 = I hate it, 10 = I love it.)

Things that you like :

Things that you don't like :

B. For people who also read the novel.

Your opinions about the difference between the book and the movie :

Thank you 🎼

@curiousnonny

Yes, twice!!

As a movie? A solid 6. I think it’d be very hard to follow (as evidenced by my grandma and sister who didn’t read the book who saw it with me and kept asking questions), and feel very rushed.

As an adaptation? Maybe a 6.5. There were a lot of things I think they could’ve done better, but I don’t think for either category it did BADLY.

SPOILERS AHEAD.

One thing I liked? Tigris!! While her importance was downplayed a lot (to the point if she hadn’t been in the movie, it would’ve been easily fixed and unimportant), but I LOVE how they showed her relationship with Coriolanus slowly deteriorating. That last scene where she was like “you just like your father, Coriolanus” was very well done, and I like the progression it showed rather than just leaving it up to interpretation.

I liked Lucy Gray’s songs a lot too! I was looking forward to those and they did NOT disappoint. I also really liked Lucy Gray. The accent was amazing, the singing, the acting, it was perfect.

I also LOVED Lucky Flickerman. Amazing addition. I think I laughed every time he was on screen.

One thing I disliked? Lots to choose from!

I disliked Dr. Gaul seeming crazy and out of control. In the books, she was much more collected (even if she was crazy and out of control, she was never crazy and out of control about HERSELF), and NEVER would’ve said she didn’t care if there was a victor OR let everyone chanting change her mind no matter what.

I disliked what they did to Clemensia!!! Firstly, it made her seem like a total attention hog who was going to take all credit for the assignment. She wasn’t. She simply said they discussed it and she printed it out. It was very annoying. I also didn’t like that it left it up to interpretation if she was DEAD?? In the books the snake venom had lasting effects on her that I would’ve liked to see (the scales, her refusal to feed Reaper).

I can’t decide if I like or dislike what they did to Sejanus. He was more aware of his actions in the movie, and his influence (imo) and was more defensive when it came to his classmates teasing him than in the books. That opening scene made him more unlikable, and his attitude towards Coriolanus when Coriolanus was trying to save him and himself from the rebel plan seemed very…smug? He seemed a lot more smug in the movie and I didn’t like it at all.

I can see that this movie might be an exaggeration of Coriolanus’ views, which could explain why Sejanus was more smug and Dr. Gaul more crazy and not under her own control (instead listening to Coriolanus) but honestly I don’t care if it was? I think narration would’ve been a fantastic addition to the movie and would’ve showed his decent into villainy very well.

I also can’t decide if I like the addition of the recording being played at Sejanus’ hanging. On one hand, it takes away from the mystery of is Sejanus knew it was Coriolanus who turned him in, but on the other hand, it made the moment that much sadder for Sejanus.

I didn’t like that they made the games more fast-paced than in the books. In the books, EIGHT tributes die (I think- please lmk if it’s not, but it’s around a third if I remember correctly), and there’s not a bloodbath at the beginning. The fact they added that in, and took away the WEEK it took to start the games to make it more exciting for viewers…rubs me the wrong way.

I didn’t like a lot of the games part, actually. As I already mentioned, the shortening of time. Because how would Coriolanus be in the hospital while Lucy Gray is onstage WITH a guitar, if he never could’ve gotten it to her? It’s such an unimportant detail but it’s very annoying to me. I know it’s because Pluribus was cut out from the movie (another thing I didn’t like but I understand why they did it), but it just irks me.

Another thing that irked me was the tribute’s outfits. Lamina is described as having a rope belt and a potato sack dress (or something of that nature). Why are all the tributes dressed in almost modern clothing? I saw one person theorize that parents wanted their children in their Sunday best to better humanize them to the capitol, which I understand and which connects it to the OG trilogy but still bugs me.

And Coral as an entire character. The pack was true (parts of it at least), but she never targeted Lucy Gray or had that dramatic scene with the snakes. I get why they did it but it again just irked me because she wasn’t even part of the last three. I’ve seen a lot of people calling Coral a “they/them Starbucks barista” and…yeah. She was the most modernized (by that I mean 2023) out of all of them.

Reaper’s small changes (his death, mostly) I didn’t mind, because I felt like it still showed him well enough and fit with the movie. I’m VERY glad they kept his stint with the bodies and the flag, and I’m glad they still died with him.

I also understand why they had to downplay the Covey (Barb Azure isn’t even mentioned by name), but it was still disappointing and I didn’t like it.

However, I do think they did a much better job with the second half of the movie and how it related to the book, so that’s good at least!

Anywho, sorry if this comes off as very negative- I don’t mean for it to be, that’s just how it seems. My apologies.

Thank you for the question, @curiousnonny , and feel free to debate but not argue in the replies/reblogs!

I'm genuinely shocked at how much people are giving you pushback on the Gale/Snow comparison.

I fully support the idea that Gale is like Snow. I don't understand why people are so determined to fight against the idea. Even if it's the same misguided anger they both share its still there.

You don't have to respond to this ask, but I just wanted you to know I appreciate the way you dug into the source material and came up with a solid character analysis. I'm sorry people are being dicks about it.

They only hate you because you speak the truth.

Thank you!! This is very refreshing to see😭

I think a lot of people think that I’m comparing Gale and Snow, like as characters, and trying to say that they’re the same CHARACTER and that’s why people hate it so much, which is fair.

However, I have a fair amount of experience with Gale antis REACHINGGG, so who knows?

Again- thank you for this!!

HOLY SHIT I GOT THE HAIKU BOT

Snow may land on top, but girls on fire can melt that shit SO quickly.