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Discourse Hole
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I don't like that a majority of the internet is more interested in taking down victims of nonc*n and cs*m for drawing a picture/writing a story than they are taking down the real-life abusers of said victims.
I think more people need to realize that when they are attacking victims they are effectively siding with the p*do/r*pists and giving them an opening. The more people clog up report inboxes meant for serious matters with fanfic, the easier it is to get away with actual crimes. The more a victim needs to hide away for their own sake, the less the predator needs to worry about being called out.
You are not going to get a thank you letter from your favorite fictional character for rescuing them from some random artist online. Your favorite fictional character does not exist. The r*pe victim that you just told that you hope it happens again to, however, is very real, and so is the r*pist you are helping to support by making their victim's life even more hell.
I notice often times, too, that a lot of people that go after others are ones that are hiding something themselves, or are doing it to impress someone who is actually very dangerous.
It's time to get your priorities straight. Be careful who you listen to online. Be mindful of who you are confronting online. Real friends don't need to be impressed to be kept. Think things through and get on the right side of things. You don't have to assist the predators of the internet anymore.
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be normal about trans people drawing trans people however the fuck they want or explode badly OK?
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can’t stand when people dismiss a character being in a minority group when the character is evil. ohhh i don’t want the evil incestuous bitch from crimson peak to be bisexual we don’t claim her fuck you !! she already is !!
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shoutout to people who process their trauma by fetishizing it, big ups to twisting the worst things that happened to us into a source of pleasure, confronting the plasticine and ever evolving nature of memory and imagination ftw
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made an insightful infographic for those who might need it
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I think as a culture we have all forgotten that fandom is supposed to be fun.
It’s not that serious.
It was never supposed to be that serious.
Especially since most of the drama and hurt revolves around shipping.
All of the ships are fictional. Being canon doesn’t actually negate the fact that the ship isn’t real.
No ship, or any aspect of a fictional universe, is important enough to treat another real life human being badly.
It’s not that serious.
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If you are a person who:
Has violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
Enjoys having violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive thoughts
Enjoys fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive characters
Creates fiction with violent, abusive, harmful, or destructive characters
And you do not actually do any violent, abusive, harmful or destructive actions
You are not a bad person.
You are a good person.
Thoughts and fiction do not define morality.
Actions define morality.
Having or enjoying bad thoughts or bad fiction doesn’t mean you will act on those feelings.
Liking negative themes in fiction or having daydreams about harmful actions will not cause you to do harm.
Thoughts and fiction aren’t harmful.
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thinking abt the time i got called an “abuse apologist” bc i said zuko and katara would be a cute couple.
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Disgust has absolutely no ethical weight. If you are basing your ethical positions on the emotion of disgust you should stop, it is entirely unjustified and leads to a huge amount of harm.
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I don't like that a majority of the internet is more interested in taking down victims of nonc*n and cs*m for drawing a picture/writing a story than they are taking down the real-life abusers of said victims.
I think more people need to realize that when they are attacking victims they are effectively siding with the p*do/r*pists and giving them an opening. The more people clog up report inboxes meant for serious matters with fanfic, the easier it is to get away with actual crimes. The more a victim needs to hide away for their own sake, the less the predator needs to worry about being called out.
You are not going to get a thank you letter from your favorite fictional character for rescuing them from some random artist online. Your favorite fictional character does not exist. The r*pe victim that you just told that you hope it happens again to, however, is very real, and so is the r*pist you are helping to support by making their victim's life even more hell.
I notice often times, too, that a lot of people that go after others are ones that are hiding something themselves, or are doing it to impress someone who is actually very dangerous.
It's time to get your priorities straight. Be careful who you listen to online. Be mindful of who you are confronting online. Real friends don't need to be impressed to be kept. Think things through and get on the right side of things. You don't have to assist the predators of the internet anymore.
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It goes without saying that I do not like MAPS or pedophiles. However, I would much rather have a MAP/pedo get off to some fictional porn than have them look at CSEM and not even get off to it. I would rather have a MAP/pedo get off to some fictional porn than have an ANTI look at/or pass around CSEM to prove some kind of point, too. At least if it's fictional content, nobody is being hurt. The victim of whatever CSEM is being passed around or looked at is being hurt regardless of the intentions of looking.
Antis need to care less about whether someone is getting off and more about which thing they're indulging in. If the content is about a fictional character, then it's safe to look at. If the content is a child from real life, we have a massive problem. It's as simple as that.
I just saw a take that really put in perspective how it is the people screaming about AO3 "hosting child porn" view the problems surrounding CSEM.
It really seems like the one of the biggest issues that these people have with any and all CP is that pedophiles "can get off to it". "Pedophiles getting off" is something that is a large focus for these sorts of people.
And, personally, that is the thing that matters the least in these discussions? Whether or not someone is "getting off"—I mean.
The problem with actual CSEM is the abuse and continued abuse of real children caused by the filming/photographing and subsequent sharing of those films/photos. If, in being shared, no one happened to "get off" to the images, that isn't any better. There isn't any less damage done than if the people who viewed it did "get off", because the distribution is the thing that furthers that abuse, not the "getting off" part. The victim is harmed just as much either way, because they have no way of knowing how that material is being used beyond it being shared. If someone happened to not "get off" to the CSEM that involved them, that distribution doesn't do them any less harm.
And I think this also makes it make sense why these types of people will SHARE instances of what they call "CP art/written CP". They're not "getting off" to it, so their view of it isn't a "bad view". Meanwhile, if the image or writing is of a real, actual child, whether or not they're getting off to it doesn't matter, their furthering the distribution by viewing and/or sharing is what is doing that harm. And if the image or writing is of a fictional child portrayed by pixels and not a real child actor, their viewing isn't any more or less benign than someone "getting off" to it because there is no real child being harmed by any distribution in the first place.
It speaks to a level of sex negativity which views orgasm something uniquely damaging. Viewing images or writing of fiction is viewed as worse if you orgasm to it than if you do it to go "eeewwwww" with your friends. Accessing real CSEM is viewed as more harmful if there's an orgasm involved, even though accessing it and not "getting off" to it does the same level of damage to the victim.
It really Does Not Matter if pedos are "getting off". What matters is whether a victim is being further damaged.
"But they're still getting off to kids, even if they're fictional that's wrong!"
That's the least important part of this whole equation. The focus is on the thing that is sexual in the moment, rather than on the actual harm. I care way more about people actually being harmed than whether or not someone is being moral. Because I don't like it either, but I'm not going to put it on the same level as if they were doing real harm to an actual child. I can block them and move on with my life knowing that no children are being harmed, even if I think it's disgusting and wrong. That's very different than if real children are being harmed.
#this only applies to looking at it yourself#obviously you should be cautious about what you share with others as well#if they're comfortable seeing that sort of fictional content and they are of age then go for it#if not then just avoid that too#csem#child abuse#rape mention#MAPs
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Friendly reminder that people with OCD also use problematic and disturbing content to cope! Exposure is one of the best ways to overcome obsessions, and to deny compulsions!
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i think the internet, especially teens, have gotten a little too comfortable with suibaiting and telling others to kys in fandom spaces when they don't agree with something they do or like, and i think that should really get pulled back... like... a lot.
it doesn't matter if someone ships something you hate. block them, filter their username, filter the tags for the ship you hate. it doesn't matter if they like a character you hate. do the same thing. block, filter, filter.
i can understand some people might want to debate stuff but that's an entirely different cup of tea than suibaiting bc ur angry or disgusted or triggered by something. i understand being triggered is extremely hard to deal with. flashbacks are awful things i deal with all the time. however you also need to know how to take responsibility for yourself and find coping mechanisms or someone to help you when you're having them instead of lashing out at the people around you or online.
i will tell you this: no fictional character or ship is worth more than someone's life. ever.
when you go to send "kys" to someone, you need to consider the even SLIGHT chance they might actually do that. you need to consider the weight of having someone's life end because one more "kys" message drove them to the edge. you don't know what their life is like irl. you don't know what they're going through. what they do online with fandom is none of your business.
this isn't directed toward anyone or any group in particular, just anyone who does this sort of thing. if you're sitting there thinking something like "it's okay if they actually do it" then you need to seek help and talk to a professional about how to cope with things that make you feel this way.
this post is not about irl stuff, just fandom, because those kinds of things need to be handled in a completely different way from what i said above.
i think it's also important to remember that a lot of people in your life are the types that would upset you if they were more open about what they like. next time you consider going to send hate to someone that they should hurt themselves over something fandom-related imagine that person being your best friend or a family member that you love and then think about how horrible it would be to lose them. these people have family and friends who would miss them, too.
a life is not something you can replace. you can easily block and avoid people online but when they're gone irl that's it.
just think everyone needs to be more kind and learn to help themselves when they find something they don't like. you can take care of yourself without hurting those around you.
it's okay to not like things. it's okay to hate things or have squicks or triggers. it's NOT okay to suibait someone just because you don't agree with what they like, however.
#discourse#fiction discourse#suibaiting#this was brought to mind bc of someone who said that suibaiting shouldn't be enough to get banned on a site#and i don't really agree with that#something to think about
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