wingsofhcpe
a dream of dragons
starless • GR • 24 • they/them • i write & draw stuff • main fndms: the musketeers, star trek rwby, fe3h, bsd, aot, grishaverse, lotr
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Madeline Miller has every right to write books like "Circe" and draw inspiration from Greek mythology but sometimes I want what she smokes... Like, I can't believe that with her studies and experience she looked at one of the most beloved heroes of the Greeks for millennia and she went "the gods are 'sociopathic narcissists' in our modern standards, Odysseus is full of himself and probably shittier than he presents himself to be because patriarchy".
I am mostly paraphrasing, and the quotes are below. Yes, Greek societies have been patriarchal for a long time, yes Odysseus is the main narrator so of course, we see the story from his point of view, yes he is a trickster character and not perfect, no that doesn't automatically make him a bad person who overshadows other characters so he can elevate himself. If he had lied or hid something when he narrated his story, it would be there in the text, as in every other occasion Odysseus tricked someone.
I find it very hard to accept that with her Classics background she characterized the Greek gods in such a simple way, letting out all their magnificence, generosity, and kindness.
I understand what she wants to say here but the phrasing is weird. What do you mean by "push back" against the mythology? This makes it seem like her works are equal to the mythology texts and she is able to "push back". (She says in the article that her works are not equal to the Homeric pieces, but phrases like this makes it seem so)
These statements of the interviewer don't help much either... In a formal article, please don't characterize gods of other cultures and religions as "stupid" and similar things. You wouldn't call a person that in such a context, and you call the Greek gods stupid? Also... we are so sorry for our hero who tells his own story, I guess?? And sorry that our important ancient texts made you sad as a kid???
This statement alone might not seem like much but in the general spirit of the article, it adds up to the notion of Odysseus isn't that deserving after all and we should stop giving him that much attention in the name of social justice. For example, later in the article, we meet this statement from Miller. (I understand she doesn't outright call Odysseus a narcissist and what she says is that there is some material on the text she can use to play with this theme.)
The whole piece might leave the impression to a portion of readers that Odysseus wasn't actually that great and was praised in the context of a patriarchal society because he was a male hero. I can't help but feel this removes some agency from the Greek people who have kept Odysseus in their hearts and tradition for thousands of years, up to this day.
I analyze her and the writers of multiple articles stance exactly as deep and with the same stretches as the article writers praise Miller's work. She made the powerful witch Circe a rape victim and Odysseus a liar from a few hints (not even) in the original text. And I cannot meta-analyze her work from a cultural, intersectional scope? Yes, "it's not that deep" but since the articles are making a fuss out of a singular recent book and analyze it to death, I believe I am allowed to go a bit deeper in my commentary.
So, their stances remind me of the old theme of the "enlightened, educated foreigner" who "knows better" the native heroes than the natives of a land and sees how "problematic" the culture and the heroes themselves are, and the culture wasn't "feminist enough" to give the female heroes voices.
It all ties to the sense of ownership the West has with the Greek myths and characters. This is a formal interview/article and yet they talk about the heroes like they are their cousins or like they discuss in a bar about heroes of their own culture. One says that the Greek gods are essentially pricks and the other moans because we mostly follow Odysseus in... "Odyssey", as if the text came out yesterday in their local newspaper.
Like, I thought we would get a respectful and serious approach from people who know what they are talking about, but apparently, I was too optimistic.
The funny thing is, while misogyny was/is a thing, it's not because of the lack of feminism that Circe wasn't so important. She was merely the "bad witch" of the story. As it often happens in folk adventure stories, side characters - bad witches included - don't have a deep background story. To claim that the misogyny of Greeks was the reason Circe didn't get much "screentime" in another hero's story (!!!) is a stretch. There are multiple male characters in Odyssey who don't get that much time because they are side characters.
I can't believe I am saying this but... Miller and the writers of the articles give me so many "white feminism" vibes. Greece societies had/has issues with women's representation and yet they chose one side female character who matters as much as the male side characters in the text and go "now THIS is a problem we need to talk about for the next five years! We will do the subversion of the century and we will open people's eyes to neglected women by making a beloved hero a prick!! Oh, also Circe is now a rape victim to show how cruel the men were back then!"
Here is the full article. Most of it is pleasant and insightful and then there are... these statements that made red flags arise in my mind. I am not saying that Madeline Miller is trash, or that she doesn't know anything, or that she deserves any type of harassment. I just think some commentary is needed when such proclamations of hers are published and end up adopted by many who don't have the time to cross-reference.
#'this is my play doh and i can do what I want' IT'S LITERALLY MY COUNTRY'S CULTURE YOU IDIOT WHAT-#*eye twitch*#gods would be sociopathic what now today#THEY'RE GODS. THEY'RE HIGHER BEINGS. NON-HUMAN. ASPECTS OF NATURE & EXISTENCE. HOPE THAT HELPS#my god there's no way this woman is an academic. what the actual fuck.#i hate madmiller so much it's unreal#atp i hate her more than rr because at least rr isn't trying to spin PJO as a revolutionary literary gift to humanity
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also like kudos to mr Jorge Rivera-Herrans and his team because Epic the Musical feels like the only ancient greek-inspired medium I've encountered so far that doesn't fetishise, appropriate and misrepresent ancient Greece, and as a greekTM myself I really appreciate that??? Breath of fresh air after the personal hell that's Madeline Miller's & Rick Riordan's works.
#!!!! THIS!!#thank u for the addition it's wonderful and very true!#....also wow miller is just saying shit atp huh#epic the musical
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#literally this like how is it 'your' land if you have to clean it up of others first before you can live there#that's the opposite of being your land. that's fuckin textbook colonialism#'b-but it was promised by god-' yeah thats what the puritans claimed too when they landed to the americas & started killing the natives#listen i am christian i am religious i do not judge you for believing in god (any god of any faith) but i WILL judge you if you use your-#-deity's name as an excuse to kill ppl#because you know who else does that? RACIST FASCIST WESTERN CHRISTIANS#it's not ok when they do it & it's not ok when zionists do it#free palestine
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modern social media should stop offering "sync with your phone contacts to follow them" options and start offering "block all your phone contacts so they never see your account" options
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Those who protest against Israel's genocide are punished for antisemitism.
But for some strange reason, authorities have never cracked down on antisemitism any other time. Any other time, antisemitism is considered free speech.
It's almost as if they know damn well that protesting against Israel is not antisemitism.
#authorities rn arresting Jewish ppl that protest against israel by the dozens but you're trying to convince me they care abt antisemitism?#yah no i dont think so#they dont care abt jewish people and their safety they just wanna watch palestinians die#free palestine
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#'pray for israel' yeah im praying for it to fuckin STOP#nobody knows how to play the victim better than zionazis ffs#free palestine
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Hundreds of Jewish anti-war demonstrators have been arrested during a Passover seder that doubled as a protest in New York, as they shut down a major thoroughfare to pray for a ceasefire and urge the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, to end US military aid to Israel.
The 300 or so arrests took place on Tuesday night at Grand Army Plaza, on the doorstep of Schumer’s Brooklyn residence, where thousands of mostly Jewish New Yorkers gathered for the seder, a ritual that marked the second night of the holiday celebrated as a festival of freedom by Jews worldwide.
The seder came just before the US Senate resoundingly passed a military package that includes $26bn for Israel.
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if someone brought karl marx back to life the first thing I would do is have a shopping montage to get him modern outfits where I shake my head yes or no to the outfits he picks out but then after that we'd get down to serious business
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Every time I watch Dune I forget about it but I'm foaming at the mouth over how Paul has a vision of himself as a powerful, respected, divine figure with millions worshipping him and he just says "Somebody help me"
#PREV TAGS OH MY GOD YEAH#he never wanted this but who can resist the literal millenia long cult GENETICALLY ENGINEERING HIM FOR THIS FUTURE#it's fuckin terrifying when you realise paul never stood a chance#dune
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This Earth Day I grieve the ancient olive groves of Palestine, I grieve the groundwater and once unpolluted oceans of that same beautiful land. I feel an indescribable rage when I picture occupation forces burning these sacred groves to the ground and salting the earth that remains.
This Earth Day I wish for a free Palestine, Sudan, Congo, Hawaii. For the freedom of their people and their lands. You can not fight for a cleaner healthier planet without fighting against imperialism.
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Secret good guys who def only hated the Nabateans for their eeeeeeeeevil rule and are perfectly ok with everyone else. I’m glad FEH took this opportunity to show them in a more sympathetic light which totally justifies their genocide (sarcasm, if you couldn’t tell)
#if i speak. IF I FUCKIN SPEAK.#anyway having been (ex) friends with people who have these takes unironically i can confirm this is not in fact exaggeration or sarcasm#like we joke but these are actual arguments I've seen ppl use. ew.#fe3h
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#peaceful resistance is a white man's term#i cant remember who said that but. very accurate#free palestine
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'token straight' doesnt even exist in 2024. its gotten so queered up that theyre theyre all atleast a fifth of a faggot now
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is THIS your man? [shows an image of a malnourished injured exhausted man with big sad eyes looking up at the camera with blood smeared all over his face and mouth. and he is visibly trembling]
#aramis when im done with him in that alt s2 fic where richelieu lives finds out abt him and ana and sends him to spain as a spy &-#-eventually he gets captured and tortured
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IM SO SICK OF YOU ALL
No nuance allowed. please share for a bigger sample 💕💕💕💕💕
*by eat i mean how do you prefer your cereal.
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