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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Bucky: Nope. Bad idea.

Steve, preparing to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute: There are no bad ideas. Only good ideas that go horribly wrong.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Grounded, part 2:

Bucky: Hey, Steve?

Steve: Yeah?

Bucky: What’s Ligma? Peter says I keep getting it from you-

Steve, choking: pETER, YOU’RE GROUNDED!

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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we need a disney princess who drinks bong water

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Mission Report: December 16th, 1991.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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during world war 2, “punk” was slang for an effeminate gay man, or the younger partner in a homosexual relationship

bucky affectionately calls steve the 40s equivalent of “twink”

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Can you please explain the abuse tatic of Sam and Dean (that that are using to control each other)? Bc I'm not under standing and/or seeing them.

Okay, this is an important question, so I’m going to try to answer it even though I don’t feel like I’m qualified to do so.

Because of that, I’m starting with a few caveats:

I’m not a mental health professional.

I have not extensively experienced abuse (from either side).

I haven’t seen all episodes of the show, as I avoid those I think might be triggering.

Supernatural is fiction, and Sam and Dean are characters. While they are written to a show bible (whether its formal or informally applied), it’s by a team of writers who have different sensibilities and understandings of their psychology. There is no one valid interpretation possible because of this. Valid interpretation exists on a spectrum of possibility.

My reading of the show is affected by all of the above. If you have a different take on things, please add to the conversation.

And next, a warning: I’ll be talking about abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder, and by nature of the topic, I will be critical of the characters. They are made up of more than the elements I discuss here.

Okay, are you sitting comfortably? Mental loins girded? Good, let’s start with a bit of a discussion of the reasons abuse happens, and the shape of the abusive situation in the Winchester family.

Keep reading

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Ok, so anyone who can watch the scene in Metamorphosis where Dean confronts Sam about his powers and Ruby and can then honestly look me in the eye and tell me that Sam is not in an abusive relationship like wow, no, don’t come near me.

Dean punches Sam for no other reason than he’s angry, and Sam takes it, he quite clearly expects it, he doesn’t fight back he just asks if Dean’s satisfied, this is clearly an established pattern in their lives. And then Dean punches him again and again Sam just stands there and lets it happen. And these punches are hard, they violently snap Sam’s head back both times.

That’s the physical abuse, but of course Dean isn’t quite done yet. Having already tried to guilt Sam about working with Ruby being some rejection of Dean he then lays straight into the dehumanisation, literally, he actually straight up tells Sam he’s something other than human. By this point Dean is definitely aware of Sam’s long standing and deep seated issues regarding feeling othered, but he goes ahead uses that to beat Sam with. (He then grabs his shirt and pushes Sam violently toward the wall, which again Sam barely does anything to resist). When Sam quite rightly says that he’s saving people with his power, that its better than the knife, Dean’s first reaction is to make Sam question his judgement, Sam can’t possibly be right about this because Sam can’t be trusted to make decisions it must be that Ruby’s lying to him and Sam is too stupid to know. Dean then returns to the dehumanisation with the delightful added side of threatening Sam’s life. But honestly the bit that gets me the most is when he brings up the angels and God; he’s using Sam’s faith against him, his “God doesn’t want you to do this” is just so emotionally manipulative, it makes me feel pretty damn sick. He know Sam’s insecurities and he’s using pretty much every single one of them against him to guilt and shame him because he doesn’t like what Sam is doing.

Also sometimes I question if Sam’s headache while talking on the phone to Travis is really caused by having used his powers or if its the result of having just been fucking punched violently in the face two times in a row.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Don’t you dare tell me that John Winchester didn’t abuse Dean

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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You’ve made a few posts about John being abusive. And I appreciate that because not enough people talk about it. I have read a few theories about 9.07 and how young Dean’s bruises could have been made by a werewolf (because of a werewolf got that close Dean wouldn’t be alive) but rather were made by John. And I was wondering what your opinion is on that?

I’m a little more hesitant than the general fandom (I think) to conclude that John was physically abusive just because I don’t see conclusive concrete evidence or subtext. That said, I can understand why others interpret things that way.

There are only a few scenes that poke at my radar and this one wasn’t one of them upon my first watch. I’ve since considered it after I heard rumblings on tumblr, but I’m still not sure that’s what the subtext is saying to us (although I see why people think it is).

It’s clear that Sonny thinks that’s where the bruises are from. He thinks Dean is physically abused and is making up a story about werewolves, but see, we know that Dean does indeed hunt monsters, werewolves included, so I’m not entirely sure we’re supposed to read this scene in the same way Sonny does. The audience knows more than Sonny does in this instance (dramatic irony). And I think maybe the reason for this scene is to set up the scenario for Sonny, rather than for us. He thinks Dean is an abused kid (and don’t get me wrong, Dean is but we’re talking physically right now), and so when he sees these bruises, it’s confirmed, in Sonny’s mind, that Dean is abused. Dean is clearly lying, you know? And so we see Sonny read the situation, confirm that Dean is abused and gets ready to take him under his wing. Coupled with the fact that Sonny notes that Dean stole bread and peanut butter, Sonny sees this hungry kid who’s been beat up by his dad and not that punk hooligan that the deputy sees in the previous scene.

Now, that said, there’s something right after this where Sonny says he knows Dean won’t leave because he’s hungry. Which Dean contradicts and when Sonny asks him why he stole bread and peanut butter then, Dean does this:

He looks him in the eye when he’s shrugging, swallows and turns away, won’t look at him anymore. And we know in this instance what Dean’s hiding. That he is hiding something. Namely that John was gone and Dean needed to feed Sam and so he stole bread and peanut butter. So he’s concealing here, but it’s not quite the same won’t look you in the eye that he did before but it’s similar. With less bravado, so you can take that as you will and I do think there’s room for an interpretation that John was physically abusive, but I haven’t made my final call yet, I guess. If that was the intention of the bruise scene, it could have been a lot clearer, but TPTB seem reluctant to wade into those waters, and I’m not really sure why. I wish they would though, because not only would conversations about the neglect and emotional abuse be good for both Sam and Dean, it would maybe shed some light on this question as well.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Can you please explain the abuse tatic of Sam and Dean (that that are using to control each other)? Bc I'm not under standing and/or seeing them.

Okay, this is an important question, so I’m going to try to answer it even though I don’t feel like I’m qualified to do so.

Because of that, I’m starting with a few caveats:

I’m not a mental health professional.

I have not extensively experienced abuse (from either side).

I haven’t seen all episodes of the show, as I avoid those I think might be triggering.

Supernatural is fiction, and Sam and Dean are characters. While they are written to a show bible (whether its formal or informally applied), it’s by a team of writers who have different sensibilities and understandings of their psychology. There is no one valid interpretation possible because of this. Valid interpretation exists on a spectrum of possibility.

My reading of the show is affected by all of the above. If you have a different take on things, please add to the conversation.

And next, a warning: I’ll be talking about abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder, and by nature of the topic, I will be critical of the characters. They are made up of more than the elements I discuss here.

Okay, are you sitting comfortably? Mental loins girded? Good, let’s start with a bit of a discussion of the reasons abuse happens, and the shape of the abusive situation in the Winchester family.

Keep reading

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Friendly Remind that John Winchester Wasn’t Some Nice Guy who Changed Over Night

Recently I had a conversation with another Supernatural fan. We were discussing John Winchester’s parenting, and how some people believe John was a nice guy in the first season until the writers changed the originally intended purpose of John’s character. I’d just to like to take a moment right now to say John Winchester being a bad parent is nothing new. John Winchester was not father of the year season one, nor was he former father of the year for season two. The writers didn’t create some happy go lucky, fun loving, emotionally intelligent, understanding father and then decide to change him for plot purposes.

I think we can all agree that yes, John is a complicated character who can’t simply be ‘all good’ or ‘all bad.’ Complexity is part of what makes characters interesting- one sided, never developing characters are boring and don’t last very long. John watched his wife, the woman he loved, burn alive on the ceiling of his infant son’s bedroom- of course the guy was going to make mistakes. He was definitely put in a horrible situation, and John only did what he thought was best. John kept his sons with him (except for those stretches of three of four days when the boys would be alone but hey whatever) because he wanted to make sure they were safe. John trained his boys so they could protect themselves if they were ever in the situation that John could not protect his boys (and it definitely came in handy) because he thought that was for the best. John gave his boys the weapons to protect themselves and the knowledge to know how to do so because he thought it was best.

But did John really think it was for the best to give his eight year old son alcohol? ”But it was probably just a taste,” readers shout. “What kid doesn’t want to ‘be a man’ like his dad? It’s not uncommon for kids to have a sip of alcohol once or twice in their childhood! Everybody loves Bobby and he was the town drunk!”

John drank too much, he raised one son who drank too much and two sons who grew up thinking alcohol was a coping mechanism for failures. See 3x10 Dream a Little Dream of Me.

Dean: There you are. What are you doing?

Sam: Having a drink.

Dean: It’s two in the afternoon. You’re drinking whiskey?

Sam: I drink whiskey all the time.

Dean: No, you don’t.

Sam: What’s the big deal? You get sloppy in bars, you hit on chicks all the time. Why can’t I?

Dean: It’s kind of slim pickings around here. What’s going on with you?

Sam: I tried, Dean.

Dean: To do what?

Sam: To save you. I mean, where you’re going… what you’re gonna become. I can’t stop it.

See how the Winchesters work? Failure to protect family at all costs= personal failure, personal failure= inexcusable wrongdoing, inexcusable wrongdoing= sadness, sadness= no closure that’s for sure because emotions are only for women because only women have feelings and being like a woman is wrong? All of that = drinking instead of honestly discussing feelings or, you know, something which is actually healthy and productive. And of course that kind of mentality has tainted their relationships with other characters (Dean and Sam are responsible for their own choices but how much easier would it be for them to communicate with each other and others if they had been raised to honest and open?).

“But Cas didn’t even show up until season four, John didn’t have an impact on his son’s lack of friends!”

*cough*

…Whether you like John or not, we can all agree that Dean’s main coping mechanism is drinking.

“John wasn’t actually an alcoholic- we never even saw him drink! That’s something new that the writers made up!

Dean: Um. Dad hasn’t been home in a few days.

Sam: So he’s working overtime on a Miller Time shift. He’ll stumble back in sooner or later.

- THE FIRST EPISODE OF THE SHOW

You can see the impact John had over his sons long before he died, even when John was alive things were difficult. There were lines the boys did not cross, things they did not say, things they did not do. And one man they were not supposed to question

I’ll just… leave these here.

(Dean protecting Sam from their dad because Dean will always protect Sam, Sam arguing with John because he’s watched Dean be belittled his entire life and let me tell you that does not make for a comfortable sibling-parent relationship because you see your parent as a threat to your sibling, a threat to someone you love. In this case, not only did Sam love Dean but Dean was his parent. So Sam grew up watching John yell at Dean and belittle him as they drove around the country, Sam watched John abuse his big brother, his caretaker, his best friend.)

And John’s huge emphasis on family and loyalty caused Sam and Dean to think it was wrong to pursue individual happiness, that going after what you want (for example, a career as a lawyer, a loving possible future fiancé, making friends, etc) was selfish and a waste of time. I mean Sam’s “rebellious phase” was going to school…

Dean: And that’s why you ran away.

Sam: I was just going to college. It was Dad who said if I was gonna go I should stay gone. And that’s what I’m doing.

Dean: Yeah, well, Dad’s in real trouble right now. If he’s not dead already. I can feel it.

Sam spent his entire life trying to fit in, all he ever did was study for school- to get into one of the best school’s in the country- and all of his hard work that his father responded to with “If you’re gonna go you should stay gone” is brushed off with a single, “Yeah, well.” AKA Your personal accomplishments don’t matter Sammy because we were raised thinking that happiness lived and died with family.

When Sam (Sam, who never got to have a relationship with his mom; Sam, who spent his entire life switching schools; Sam, who had to start over on different curriculum with new kids and new teachers his entire life; Sam, who always argued with his dad and didn’t feel comfortable telling him anything; Sam, whose childhood was consumed with “being a freak”) was finally benefiting from his years of hard work and was able to proudly (but he probably didn’t say it proudly because school wasn’t what John wanted for Sam so of course he wouldn’t be proud of Sam’s work) say he was accepted into one of the best schools in the entire country with a FULL RIDE, what does his dad do? His dad tells him to get out, to leave the only family- the only life- he’s ever known, and stay gone.

Don’t forget that even if Sam gave up everything he had spent his entire life working towards (Stanford, being a lawyer, being with college friends, working through what happened to Jess instead of hunting) it wouldn’t have been enough because Sam had demon blood in him, Sam was evil.

Anything outside of the norm is considered a monster and monsters are wrong.

Yes, it was canon that a father told his eldest son he would have to murder his little brother (John’s baby, a child) if he became something John wouldn’t want him to be.

So aside from the whole ‘all of your accomplishments are selfish, wanting anything for yourself mean you’re selfish and want people to die, I’m going to abuse your big brother in front of you as you grow up because that won’t complicate our relationship, you know when I’m not abusing/neglecting you, oh and also I’m okay with you being murdered if it comes down to it and what you are is wrong and evil’ John and Sam apparently had the better of the two father son relationships?

Don’t even get me started on Dean.

‘You’re still not good enough, Dean. You ruined this car, you ruined something I gave to you- I wouldn’t have given you the impala if I knew you were going to ruin it. If you don’t touch up your car (do as I say) it’ll get even worse, because the only right way to do things is my way. If you’re not pleasing John Winchester then what you’re doing has no value or purpose.’

Maybe if John looked around once in a while he could see that his children

are really good

smart

caring people

who deserve better.

And I’m all about family loyalty but we’ve seen over and over and over again that if Dean or Sam were to lose one another they would feel personally responsible, they would blame themselves for the work of demons or angels or monsters- because it’s their job, their responsibility to look out for one another, to save one another. They will always be responsible for one another, if something happens to one of them it is automatically the other brother’s fault.

No Sam, don’t you get it? Can’t you see how Dean (a child) was responsible for you, not your dad who was god knows where?

That’s not poor parenting, oh no.

… You see how this thinking is kind of unhealthy?

‘Sorry I couldn’t find a way to bring your dead body back to life, this is clearly my fault because obviously bringing a dead person back to life is super easy. I didn’t save you; I didn’t protect my family so I’m a failure.’

And this is just the first two seasons! I didn’t even get to

this

or this

or this (Because living any other kind of life- not being a hunter- would mean failing to save people, it would mean innocent people would die due to Sam or Dean’s selfish desires. Wanting a happy life= selfishness)

or this

(“And when dad got home…”) or this.

The writers didn’t “change John’s character” they just explored how it affected his sons.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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This Needs To Be Talked About.

I feel the need to say this because it’s honestly been frustrating me that it’s happening and people are finding it excusable and okay.

Now, I understand what Dean Winchester is going through. I know how hard loss is. I know how awful it is to watch someone you love die. I had to watch someone close to me, someone I love, die slowly, painfully and mercilessly for over a year. I watched him take his last breath, I watched him waste away and become unresponsive. I watched him bleed to death many times… disease is retched, terrible and unforgiving that way.

So what I’m trying to say is this: I understand what it’s like to lose someone and suffer through the grieving process. It’s hell. It’s a hell I wouldn’t wish on anyone… I truly mean that.

That being said… Dean Winchester is not grieving in a healthy way. He’s become abusive. Angry. A ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

That’s dangerous. That’s not okay. Abuse is NEVER okay. EVER. No matter the fucking circumstances. Abuse should NEVER EVER be brushed off, abuse should NEVER EVER be fucking EXCUSED as cause and effect.

I see people comparing Dean to the likes of a father losing his wife to child birth and having to “deal with the thing that killed the love of his life.” First off: that is not okay to even compare the situation to. That is not a good thing to compare what’s happening in this situation. A father abusing his child because he BLAMES the child for KILLING his wife is NOT OKAY and neither is Dean’s behavior.

Why Castiel Is Not An Excuse…

Now, I understand Jack was born out of Lucifer’s discretion. I understand he was sired by something evil and terrible.. But he was also created by a woman who had the most beautiful soul. Castiel couldn’t kill her. He had the chance to, it was his mission, but I think as soon as he laid eyes on her soul… He couldn’t pull the trigger. That wasn’t Jack’s doing, that was Castiel’s decision. It was Castiel’s choice to allow the baby to tell him his plan for the future and believe it. It was Castiel’s choice to jump into the tear in space and time and attempt to kill Lucifer. It wasn’t Jack’s choice, it wasn’t Kelly’s choice, it wasn’t Sam’s choice. It was Castiel’s choice. He said himself, he wanted to bring back a win for Dean. So he died trying to do just that by using his own decision making skills… Cass has a brain, he can make his own decisions. Because Cass was so suicidal and depressed I don’t think he cared at that point.

To be fair, Kelly was the one who died because of Jack. Not Castiel. Castiel died because, here’s a little secret:

Lucifer killed him.

Really there’s no reason for Dean to be abusive to someone who’s only been alive for DAYS. Jack wouldn’t know how to be evil if it bit him in the ass. Jack isn’t the omen. We all know he’s Lucifer’s son but the entire message this show has been trying to portray is how you have the ability alter your future, you don’t have to live up to Fate’s plan for you, you can change it. You can make whatever you want out of your life regardless of what’s been decided and planned for you.

To everyone who thinks Jack will go darkside: I simply don’t see it happening. Especially with Castiel and Sam on his side.

Why Mary Is Not An Excuse…

Mary… well Dean and Sam never really had a relationship with her. She was around for a few episodes with the boys (three or four?) Before taking off with the British Men of Douche Bags. We never had a relationship with her, neither did Sam and Dean.

However, Mary was not told to punch Satan in the face by Jack. Jack didn’t whisper in her ear, possess her or manipulate her. Jack didn’t give her the Enochian brass knuckles and command she give his pops her best right hook.

Mary made that decision on her own.

Jack Is Innocent

Jack is innocent. Since the day he was born. Yes, he has made mistakes but nothing on this planet is perfect. Nothing. Not even Angels.

I keep saying this but, regardless of Jack’s father and the destiny Dean pegs him to have by default of his parentage, Jack has done nothing wrong.

He blasted the Winchesters because Dean shot at him

He destroyed the police station because Angel Radio causes him pain

He blasted the shady tattoo artist because he experienced pain and was unsure of how to handle it

He almost unlocked a gate to hell because Asmodeus tricked him into doing it

He blasted a shapeshifter because he was about to kill Sam, Mia and Dean

He cannot control his powers because he doesn’t have a teacher. He doesn’t have a parental figure teaching him the ways right now. He doesn’t have a nurturer, he doesn’t have guidance. Yes, he has Sam but Sam doesn’t know what the hell he’s supposed to do in order to teach Jack how to control himself.

Jack is completely innocent until proven otherwise and until Castiel comes back, Jack is completely clueless of his own self.

Sam Isn’t Allowed To Grieve or Have Alternative Ideas To Dean’s

Dean isn’t giving Sam his chance to grieve or have alternate ideas of Mary’s fate. It’s Dean’s way or no way. Dean is always right, Sam is always wrong. Mary is 110% dead because Dean commands it. Just like John. Dean is so controlling, another trait of an abusive personality.

I’m not sorry to say that is complete and utter bullshit and that behavior will not be tolerated or accepted by me.

Sam isnt able to freaking breath around Dean because he has his head shoved so far up his ass even Sam isn’t able to see or think straight. All Sam is allowed to do is stand there and take it with understanding and knowing eyes because Sam is one of the kindest and understanding souls Dean will ever have in his life.

Dean needs to start appreciating it instead of taking it for granted. Sam has died a thousand times and Dean still doesn’t seem to appreciate the fact that his brother is alive and by his side to help him through the pain of his losses.

So What I’m Trying To Say Is…

Dean has ZERO EXCUSE to be acting like an abusive snot. Castiel’s death isn’t Jack’s fault, God’s fault, Mary’s fault, his fault, Sam’s fault or Kelly’s fault. It is Castiel and Lucifer’s fault and solely Castiel and Lucifer’s; Castiel’s because HE hopped through that tear and Lucifer’s because HE STABBED Cass. Not Jack, Not Kelly.. Lucifer and Castiel’s only.

It’s not okay how he’s treating Jack, Jack is afraid of what he is and afraid of his powers. It’s not okay that he promised to kill Jack when Jack was literally trying to commit suicide. Jack lost his mother and his father (Castiel) and not one person has consoled or comforted him. Sam has given him his mother’s message, yes, and he is being kind and teaching him The Life, but he hasn’t really nurtured or comforted him through his grief.

Mia was the most comforting Jack has had his entire life thus far.

It’s sad that a monster, a shapeshifter, could see how shitty Dean has been, how terrified an extremely powerful celestial being is of him and how bottled up Sam is because of Dean. And yet it’s completely justifiable, right? We understand. It’s okay to be abusive and last out at everything that moves because loss is an acceptable reason. *I’m being all the way sarcastic*

Dean does not have healthy coping mechanisms and, in turn, he’s making everyone around him miserable because of it. Jack literally has NO ONE and he’s acting a lot more civilized than Dean is and Dean has been around for three decades. Jack doesn’t have siblings to help him through either. Just a video from his mama and the odd flash of infant memory.

Stop trying to excuse it and justify it. Abuse is NEVER EVER justifiable no matter what the reason.

That said I love Dean, I always will, and I’m hurt he’s so broken. But this isn’t okay. I’m glad he finally recognized it and apologized but this is not okay. It’s not acceptable and it’s never going to be justified as grief to me.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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In terms of John and abuse. Something I think about quite often is when Sam is literally dying in the backseat of the impala and john is still hellbent on going after the demon they are chasing and says something like "this demon is more important" which is just awful. Also when sam and dean meet back up with john and john says "when something like that is going on with sam you call me" which dean did dozens of times. Putting uncessary burden and guilt on your kids shoulder is abuse.

Oh, absolutely. You do not get to this point in your life, where you’re screaming at a mirror image of yourself about how shitty your father was, without being a survivor of emotional abuse

And in regards to the examples you gave, it’s clear why Dean doesn’t think John cared about him. He was less concerned about Dean’s life than about getting rid of the YED. And as Dean says in 1.20, John didn’t even bother to call Sam back when Dean was dying. And if that’s any indication of how Dean was treated when he was a child, it’s easy to see how he got to the above point in 3.10.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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A common counter to talking about Dean as an abuser of Sam is to bring up all the times Dean has been kind and gentle and protective of Sam, it’s assumed that these times are being ignored or forgotten and its often talked about as if these actions somehow nullify or negate those times when Dean does abuse Sam. Here’s the thing. We know. We know that Dean has the capacity for great gentleness, to heal and to calm and to sooth and that he has enacted that many times towards Sam, he chooses to treat Sam with gentleness. But the fact is that Dean also chooses to treat Sam in other ways: to hit, to hurt, to beat senseless and to lash out with words and actions that bruise as much, if not more, than physical blows. This is all too often the reality of abuse. These are both Dean ‘healing’ and 'bruising’, these are both choices that Dean has made, but so long as he continues to chose the latter he continues to be an abuser and nothing negates that.

(please don’t remove the caption, I really don’t want this being turned into something else)

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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John Winchester and Child Neglect: A Comprehensive Study.

It’s been a somewhat divisive subject within the fandom as to what kind of a parent John Winchester was. Frequently, I see posts pop up on my dash defending John, claiming that he loved his sons and did the best he could under the circumstances. Others claim John was blatantly abusive.

Well, I think it’s pertinent to lay the matter to rest once and for all: he undeniably was.

And we needn’t look to subtext for signs of physical abuse, either (though as many others have pointed out, there is plenty there): child neglect is the most common form of child abuse, and it is textually evident throughout the series.

The NSPCC defines the basic needs of children as follows, all of which John gratuitously neglected:

1. Basic physical care.

The NSPCC maintains that children should be provided with “warmth, shelter, adequate food and rest, grooming (hygiene) and protection from danger.”

Whether or not the various motel rooms they frequented could be equated to proper shelter, John routinely left his sons without enough food to share between them:

Young Dean is shown giving his portion of cereal up for baby Sam, and is later shown to have been forced to resort to stealing in order to feed him.

Even in his adulthood, when asked if he had ever been “really hungry. Like, not eaten for days hungry,” Dean emphatically replies that he had.

The signs of hygienic neglect are slightly more subtle, but also present: after spending the summer without Dean, for example, young Sam is shown in clothes that are obviously too big and unbuttoned at the sleeves.

And as for “protection from danger?” Well, unless you count giving your small children loaded firearms, sufficed to say it was nonexistent.

2. Affection:

As the NSPCC puts it, healthy affection “includes physical contact, holding, stroking, cuddling and kissing, comforting, admiration, delight, tenderness, patience, time, making allowances for annoying behaviour, and general companionship and approval.”

Obviously, there was a point at which John would have provided his sons with adequate physical affection, but after Mary’s death it appears to be basically nonexistent.

He is shown to criticize Dean fairly consistently (”I wouldn’t have given you that car if I thought you were going to ruin it”), was unreasonably harsh in response to his childhood shortcomings (e.g. failing to protect Sam from a monster when he was ten), and “leaving him to rot” for the summer at a boy’s home for stealing food at the age of sixteen.

3. Security:

According to the NSPCC, security constitutes as “continuity of care, the expectation of continuing in the stable family unit, a predictable environment, consistent patterns of care and daily routine, simple rules and consistent controls and a harmonious family group.”

John constantly moved his children from one motel to another for the duration of their childhood. This prevented his children from formulating any lasting friendships with people their age, the effects of which are most evident in “After School Special:” Sam is left feeling like “a freak” in comparison to his peers, whereas Dean has already carefully developed his hypermasculine public image.

Moreover, John is predominantly absent in their lives, routinely missing holidays and disappearing for days on end. Hardly a stable parental figure for the boys to fall back on.

4. Stimulation and innate potential:

The NSPCC defines this as “praise and encouragement; curiosity and exploratory behavior. By developing skills though responsiveness to questions and to play, by promoting educational opportunities.”

Even disregarding John’s blatant discouragement of Sam’s pursuit of higher education, this is most evident in the characteristics of the boys themselves:

Sam is ambitious, motivated, self-disciplined, and academic. He prides himself on his ability to succeed in scholastic environments and conduct research, which got him a free ride to an ivy league university at the start of the series.

These are all characteristics typical of a firstborn child, whereas Dean’s laid-back persona is more typical of a second or third born.

As others have pointed out, this is because Sam WAS a first born child…to Dean.

The reason first-borns are typically such high achievers is because their parents treat each success as a momentous occasion, whereas their successors typically garner less attention. Dean was never praised for his accomplishment by John, whereas Dean provides Sam with a surprising amount of support and encouragement.

Even John’s journal takes note of this, stating that when Sam took his first steps, he immediately went to Dean.

5. Guidance and control.

“To teach adequate social behaviour which includes discipline within the child’s understanding and capacity and which requires patience and a model for the child to copy, for example in honesty and concern and kindness for others.”

John taught Dean how to perform various illegal activities, including credit card fraud and hustling pool.

This makes it doubly ironic that he reacted so violently to Dean stealing food or getting drunk as a teenager, considering he didn’t exactly set the best standard for upstanding citizenship. Maybe he was just upset he got caught?

6. Responsibility.

“For small things at first such as self-care, tidying playthings or taking dishes to the kitchen and gradually elaborating the decision making that the child has to learn in order to function adequately, gaining experience through his/her mistakes as well as his/her stresses and receiving praise and encouragement to strive to do better.”

This one is a little different, considering John arguably entrusted too much responsibility to children his sons’ age. Nevertheless, the fact remains that he gave almost no encouragement to the boys for performing these tasks, leading Dean to realize John was possessed when he told him he was proud of him.

And finally…

7. Independence.

“To make his/her own decisions first about small things but increasingly about the various aspects of his/her own life within the confines of the family and society’s codes. Parents use fine judgement in encouraging independence and in letting the child see and feel the outcome of his or her own capacity. Protection is needed, but over-protection is as bad as responsibility and independence too early.”

John militaristically handles his sons, expecting them to be basically subservient to him and to obey his orders at all costs. He forcibly cut Sam out of his life when he chose to become independent in his adulthood, electing to attend college instead of continue hunting.

Moreover, Sam is visibly surprised that John let Dean go hunting alone at the age of twenty-six.

In conclusion, the reason I find John Winchester defendists so irksome is not that they demonstrate any real ill will, but that they demonstrate society’s fundamental understanding of what abuse looks like and the forms that it can take.

Moreover, they demonstrate the popular misconception that because someone is well-intentioned, likable, or even sympathetic under some circumstances, that they cannot be abusive.

I’m not saying John wasn’t worthy of pity. I’m not saying he wasn’t without redeeming qualities. I’m not even saying he didn’t love his sons.

I’m saying that he was, by definition, canonically abusive. And we, as a fandom, need to acknowledge this fact once and for all.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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Do you agree that john was abusive?

One aspect of child abuse is maltreatment and neglect (any act or failure to act by a parent or other caregiver that results in actual or potential harm to a child) and it’s not really up for debate that John neglected both of his children. He left them alone for weeks at a time (4.13)

He left them alone when they were both way too young to be responsible for themselves (3.08),

(11.08)

and they were both definitely in harm’s way (from 1.18)

Dean and Sam were left alone, with a gun for Dean to make sure Sam is safe. That’s potential harm in so many ways. And just because John came in and chased the shtriga away, doesn’t make it any less neglectful. And in fact, John coming in and blaming Dean for what happened while John was neglecting them, well, that’s a whole new set of emotional abuse right there

And not not only were they in harm’s way when they were alone, they were also in harm’s way on hunts. So, yeah, by any definition of child protective services, they were neglected and maltreated so yeah, that’s abuse. If you’re asking me if I think John physically abused them, I don’t know. There are things that make me wonder a few times throughout the series, like the time Dean talked about how Sam ran away on his watch and then he does this (5.16):

That face, the way his lip curls up and his eyes, that is not a good memory and it definitely made me wonder if they were implying physical abuse. And then there’s this time in 1.20 when Dean has to physically separate John and Sam

and you gotta wonder if that was something he’s done before because nobody seems all that surprised about it and Dean, at the end, is just exasperated like been there, done that.

I think there’s room for an interpretation that Dean was physically abused, definitely. But the neglect (and being put into danger on hunts) is not really open to interpretation. It’s what happened. You can argue what choice did he have, he did the best he could etcetera and ad nauseum but it doesn’t change the fact that he left two little kids on their own with a loaded gun for protection for extended periods of time, or that they were in danger every time they went on a hunt. And that’s neglect and maltreatment, which are both abuse.

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winchestered1 · 6 years

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I just want to say something. John Winchester was abusive. Whether or not it strayed into the physical realm is debatable (though personally, judging by a lot of Sam and Dean’s reactions I would not be surprised), but John did, without a doubt, neglect and belittle his children. That is abuse.

Leaving extremely underage kids alone for weeks at a time? Abuse. Abandoning your child at a group home out of spite because he tried to win more money for food for himself and his brother since you didn’t leave him enough? Abuse. Treating your children like soldiers? Abuse. Verbally berating, and sometimes shunning your eldest son so that he will follow your orders without question, leading him to have very little self-esteem? Abuse. Forbidding your youngest son to achieve his dreams just because they don’t fit your agenda? Abuse. Drinking yourself into rages or to the point of passing out, leaving your kids to fend for themselves and emotionally support you? Abuse!

All of that is abusive behaviour. Whether or not John hit his boys is somewhat besides the point. He was not a healthy influence or a good father.

And you know what? I believe that he did love Sam and Dean, I really do. There were moments of genuine caring. He gave up his soul for Dean’s, that’s not nothing. But you can love someone and still be terrible towards them/bad for them, just like you can love someone who is being terrible towards you. Just because he cared about them doesn’t mean he properly cared for them.

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