#whatever happened to letting men be strong and girly is what im wondering!! | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

gunnerpalace · 4 years

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Hi! Same anon as the previous one. Tbh, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Y'see I do ask rhetorically,too but i could really accept and understand how and why ppl can be oblivious to IchiRuki, and somehow felt that the 'canon' should suffice, even the most excruciating of all is the fact a number found the ending even acceptable (ships aside, too). Again, I could respect that. But it's my greatest bane when ppl ask 'why' and not be clear they are asking rhetorically because I literally will

provide you an actual answer. And I get it, it’s the reason why ppl find shipping wars toxic and silly. But then again, as human, conflicts are always part of us (partly because as social psych explains so, we are gravitated to the negative for that allows us to change and survive), and the reason why “logical fallacies” are coined in the first place. Human will always debate, and argue about something; the only thing we could change is how we approach the opposing views.

Again, I dont condone any way, shape or form of abuse and harm. In some certain extent, I could perhaps understand it’s much harder for some IH to approach the actual argument being there’s either too much noise, and trapped in their own island between sea of salt. Thus becoming too acquianted w/ few IH who shared the same thought until it became their views as the only truth (see, that’s why its important to have debates! it is what keep us grounded and fair! Just like you said)

Who am I to speak though? I never ever challenged anyone anyways. And as you said, you just have to understand things in every way you could possibly think of–endless ‘whys’. Which is where I agree in your reply the most–this silly fandom wars is just the black mirror to every truth that lies beneath human psyche–the dark and the grimy. Heck, being a psych major is like staring at dark hole–at times, good, but most just plain confusing, revolting even or just heartbreaking.

Sorry it’s been long, but for the final of this ask: let me tell how glad I was with IchiRuki fandom I found in tumblr. It was the saltiest I’ve ever been (im not generally a fandom person anyways) but it’s the himalayan salt–expensive and actually nutritive it really deepened my desire to become wiser in general. And you for your wonderful essays, critiques and whatnot. I definitively would love to talk with you more not only about IchiRuki but the wonders and nightmare that us humans! Kudos!

I have sitting in my drafts a post spelling out my thoughts on “canon” (and thus, the people who cling to it) in that as a concept it privileges:

officiality over quality when it comes to validity (thus violating Sturgeon’s law)

corporations (intellectual property rights holders) over fans, and thus capitalists over proletarians

hierarchical dominance over mutualist networking within fandom

curative fandom over transformative fandom

genre over literary content

plot over characters

events over emotions

It is notable that (1) generally degrades art as a whole, (2) generally advances the capitalist agenda, and (3–7) generally advances the dominance of men over women (as the genders tend to be instructed by society to view these as A. dichotomies rather than spectrums, and B. to ascribe gender to them and make them polarities). These form the sides of a mutually reinforcing power structure (in the typical “Iron Triangle” fashion) designed to preserve and maintain the status quo.

Who really benefits from say, the policing of what is or is not “canon” in Star Wars? Disney, first and foremost. And then whomever (almost certainly male) decides to dedicate their time to memorizing the minutiae of whatever that corporation has decided is “legitimate.”

One can imagine a universe in which fan fic is recognized by companies for what it is: free advertising. (Much like fan art already is.) Instead, it is specifically targeted by demonetization efforts in a way that fan art isn’t. Why? Because it demonstrates that corporate control and “official” sanction has no bearing on quality, and it is thus viewed as undermining the official products.

In the same way, by demonstrating that most “canonical” works are frankly shit, it undermines the investiture of fans in focusing on details that are ultimately errata (the events, the plot, the genre), which is the core function of curative fandom and the reason for its hierarchical structure. The people who “know the most” are at the top, but what they “know” is basically useless garbage. And those people so-engaged are, of course, usually male.

To “destroy” the basis of their credibility, and indeed the very purpose of their community, is naturally viewed by them as an attack.

(This is not to say that efforts to tear down internal consistency within established cultural properties are good unto themselves, or even desirable. For example, efforts to redefine properties such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Ghostbusters, for the sake of a identity-politics agenda have largely A. failed as art, B. failed as entertainment, C. failed to attract the supposedly intended audience, and D. failed to advance the agenda in question. Trying to repurpose extant media in the name of culture wars is essentially always doomed to failure unless it is done deftly and gradually.)

(At the same time, this also shows what I was talking about last time, with regard to people seeing whatever they want to see. You will see people complain that Star Trek and Doctor Who didn’t “used to be so political,” which is obviously nonsense. These shows were always political. What changed was how their politics were presented. For example, Star Trek has, since TNG, always shown a nominally socialist or outright communist future, but was beloved by plenty of conservatives because they could [somehow] ignore that aspect of it.)

Of course, almost no one is seriously suggesting that one side of the spectrums outlined above be destroyed, rather merely that a new balance be struck upon the spectrum. But, as we have seen time and again in society, any threat to the status quo, whether that be 20% of Hugo Awards going to non-white male authors or the top income tax rate in America being increased by a measly 5.3% (from 28.7% to 34%… when the all-time high was 94% and for over 50 years it was above 50%) is a threat. This is why, for example, Republicans are out there branding AOC as a “socialist” when her policies are really no different at all from a 1960 Democrat who believed in FDR’s New Deal. (Which they, of course, have also demonized as “socialism.”)

(As an aside, all this ignores the fact that most of the “literary canon” of Western civilization, or at least English literature… is Biblical or historical fan fic.)

And this is when I finally get to my point.

Those people out there who denigrate and mock shippers and shipping, the people who hurl “it reads like fan fiction” as an insult, and so on, are the people who benefit from and enjoy the extant power structure. You will see the same thing with self-identified “gamers” complaining about “fake girl gamers.” Admitting that the hobby has a lot of women in it, and a lot of “casuals,” and is indeed increasingly dominated by “non-traditional demographics” is an affront to the constructed identity of being a “gamer.” They are “losing control.” And they don’t like it.

This exact same sort of population is what the “fanbase” of Bleach has been largely reduced down to through a slow boiling off of any actual quality. Of course they’re dismissive of people who are looking for anything of substance: their identity, their “personal relationship” with the franchise, is founded on a superficial appreciation of it: things happening, flashy attacks, eye-catching character designs, fights, etc.

(What this really boils down to, at heart, is that society at large has generally told men that emotions are bad, romance and relationships of all kinds are gross, and that thinking and reflecting on things is stupid. So of course they not only don’t care about such things, but actively sneer at them as “girly” or “feminine,” which is again defined by society at large as strictly inferior. And this gender divide and misogyny is of course promulgated and reinforced by the powers that be, the capitalists, to facilitate class divisions just like say racism generally is.)

(The latest trick of these corporate overlords has been the weaponization of “woke” culture to continue to play the people off one another all the time. “If you don’t like this [poorly written, dimensionless Mary Sue] Strong Female Character, then you are a racist misogynist!” They are always only ever playing both sides for profit, not advancing an actual ideological position. It is worth noting that there was a push by IH some years ago to define IR as “anti-feminist” for critiquing Orihime for essentially the exact same reasons [admittedly, not for profit, but still as critical cover].)

Which makes it very curious, therefore, that the most ardent IH supporters tend to be women. (Though there are more than a few men, they seem to tend to support it because it is “canon” and to attack it is to attack “canon” and thus trigger all of the above, rather than out of any real investment.) I think there are a number of reasons for this (which I have detailed before) and at any rate it is not particularly surprising; 53% of white women voted for Trump, after all.

What we are really seeing in fandom, are again the exact same dynamics that we see at larger and larger scales, for the exact same reasons. The stakes are smaller, but the perception of the power struggle is exactly the same.

Of course, the people who are involved in these things rarely think to interrogate themselves as to the true dimensions and root causes of their motivations. People rarely do that in general.

Putting all that aside, I’m glad that you have found a place you enjoy and feel comfortable, and thank you for the kind words, although I am not of the opinion that there is anything poignant about the non-fiction I write. It is, as I keep trying to emphasize, all there to be seen. One just has to open their eyes. So, it’s hard for me to accept appreciation of it.

Anyway, don’t feel shy about coming off of anon rather than continuing to send asks. We don’t really bite.

#Asks

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lyiss016 · 3 years

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so harry styles wore a dress..

so harrys vogue came out. and people were mad. idk why. but, it did start an interesting discussion w my mom because she doesn't think boys should wear dresses cuz they are “for girls”. this discussion happened:

she first said:

“I also don’t think there is anything wrong with being a “manly man”. And, there IS such a thing as being feminine and I think that is okay too. Girls shouldn’t be made to feel bad because they like “girly” things. Men and women were MADE different. That is good. We fit together. I personally don’t find anything attractive about men who are feminine or wear dresses/skirts/wear makeup, etc. But, that is my personal preference. I like that there are two different sexes and we were made to be different and compliment each other.”

and then I answered w:

“i think my thing is i don’t get why clothes have gender... like wear what u want and leave it at that. wearing more “feminine” clothes does not make you any less of a man or less masculine, because clothes don’t define that.”

and then she said:

“I understand what you are saying. However, for myself there are some clothes that are clearly more feminine than masculiine. Again, that is my opinion and doesn’t have to be anyone else’s. Like, I wouldn’t want to see your father in a dress. No thank you!”

which I responded:

“but wouldn’t that be his choice??? (like if we r going w this example haha) and idk... i think that’s it’s good. why should there be so many “boundaries” in something fun like clothes?? like wear want u want and what makes u happy the end. i think that clothes can be such a good way to express yourself and that putting up barriers cuz it’s too masculine or too feminine is stupid. like why limit yourself?? and why be so upset that someone else is doing and wearing what makes them happy? idk... i think that harry or men in general wearing dresses and more “feminine” clothes and that being represented (not just by harry and not just by white cis men) is good, because there are going to be kids out there who prob feel weird for thinking or wanting different than what is “normal” (which needs to be changed within itself) and it’s good that there is representation, because clothes shouldn’t have gender because it’s just pointless boundaries that can in some situations make people feel trapped or different for wanting/liking something else. and i also think that clothes can inspire so much confidence in people, and that wearing certain things makes people feel more confident, and we shouldn’t limit it. if a man wearing a dress makes them feel confident, or a woman wearing a suit makes them feel confident, then do it!! what about people who don’t associate w a gender? what would they wear if clothes really were assigned to male or female? idk, just why are pieces of fabric needing to be assigned to a certain gender? it makes no sense. wear what makes u feel happy n confident. the end”

“First, I’m not *upset* if a man wants to wear a dress. I personally find it weird. Isn’t that my choice too??? To think that it is unattractive? As well as your choice to find it attractive??? I’m not advocating taking people’s choices away to wear whatever they want. I personally don’t like to see men in women’s clothes. You might not care , or not find it unattractive, but I do. You are also entitled to your opinion, of course. And, as far as clothes not being gender specific, that is also another opinion. That is not a fact. That is your personal view. My view is that a dress is for girls. If a male wants to wear a dress, of course, that is their choice, as it is mine to think that it is weird. I mean, you got to allow people to have their own opinions, right?? Otherwise, that defeats what you are fighting for for all people, doesn’t it?”

“can a woman wear a suit tho? is that in your opinion? cuz it’s the same thing, just reversed. and it’s not about weather i find it “attractive” or not. it’s about people being comfortable in what their wearing no matter what. it’s people not feeling bad or wrong or different for wearing something that doesn’t “typically fit” with their gender. and yes of course people can have their own opinions. i just don’t understand why you would want to be close minded. what does it matter if people wear clothes. why can it only be one way? why all the boundaries? harry can wear whatever he wants and it doesn’t matter what other people think. but the thing is is that him wearing a dress is kind of a big deal. he’s the first solo male ever on the cover of vouge. and he wore a dress. i mean for some people that means a whole lot. but his cover means something to a lot of people, and it’s good! it wasn’t just harry behind it all, you know? there was his stylist (who’s non binary) and his photographer (poc) that were all part of this. it wasn’t just him that was in this and meant something to people. harry doesn’t have to defend himself because he’s doing what makes him happy. which is kinda the whole point right? like why do people need to have an (negative) opinion on what makes someone happy? and why are there even boundaries in the first place that would make some people think that way?”

“But, I don’t make them feel bad. It is their choice. I just don’t agree with boys wearing dresses. So what??!! I don’t have to agree with that, right? I don’t like women wearing boys ties and dressing like men. I think you assume that people who disagree with you are closed minded. That is not a good position to take. People will disagree with you your whole life, that doesn’t make them wrong or you right. Your friend wants to wear a dress?? Go ahead. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though. Also doesn’t mean I will tell them I think they are wrong and they are terrible. I’m not saying it is wrong for them, I’m saying that I don’t like it. There is a difference. And, I think it’s a BIG difference that you are refusing to see. Harry wanted to wear a dress, so he did. That is great for Harry, really it is. I personally don’t like it. So what??!!”

“i’m not saying that u make anyone feel terrible or bad for thinking or doing different than u. and i’m not saying that my way of thinking is the only way. i’m saying why would u close yourself off? it is close minded because your putting up walls of what’s for girls and what’s for boys when it doesn’t have to be like that/isn’t anymore. that’s what i was saying. and i’m not saying u have to like it or not. i don’t care. i was just wondering WHY which is why i started this discussion. as u are not the only one who doesn’t like it. but the other peoples reasons are because it’s not ‘manly’ and i was wondering if that’s why u didn’t like it either. and if so, how and why does clothes determine if your “manly” or not?? and if clothes can take or add to that, being a man and “manly” is pretty fragile .”

“I’m not closing myself off, I just have an opinion that differs from yours. I think people should and can wear what they want. It is their choice. I understand your point, and it is taken. I don’t think all gender roles are necessarily wrong though. I think it is okay to have a separateness between what men and women like/wear/are/enjoy etc. We are made differently. But, to each their own. I have no problem with that.”

“and i think what i am trying to say, is that we are trying to get rid of there being things that women can like/wear/want/are/enjoy and things that men can like/wear/want/are/enjoy. but i guess we will just have to disagree on that”

“I feel like that is a slap to the face for people who ARE female and ARE male who are okay with being who they are.”

“but HOW? like we still have those things? i’m a girl. i like being a girl. i like doing typically “girl” things. and i would still like and have them even if a boy or nb person likes or did them too. i would still like/do/have them even if we didn’t refer to them as a “girl” thing. i’m not understanding ur point.”

“Of course that doesn’t take them away from you. But, saying everything has to be non gender based does take that away. Why can’t people just like what they like?”

“they can. so why does it have to be gender specific?”

“Why can’t it be? Why do we have to change the way it is? Just like what you like and let it be!”

“then why can’t men wear dresses without society breaking? it can’t just be what it is because people are close minded. not everyone disagrees like u do and just let’s them be. some people disagree like u so but also take that out on the person. that’s why it can’t just be as it is”

“I don’t think society is breaking because of that. I think society is breaking because people are insisting on having their own way of thinking ALL OF THE TIME. There is no agreeing to disagree anymore. It’s you MUST think they way I do. Be kind. Be tolerant. Let people be themselves. That’s it.”

“i agree with that. be kind. let people live how they want. support people. try not to judge. be open to listening and understanding both sides. love. i think it’s that easy and i wish everyone would see it that way.”

-end-

so I don't really know how I feel about it. because, I agree that we should all let people do what they want and wear what they want. and like, my mom does disagree but like she wouldn't say that our be outright hateful if someone went against what she thinks. but I just don't get why she doesn't understand I guess. I don't understand why she needs there to be gender roles and won't budge about it. but then she says that we should be kind and let people do what they want. which yes. but she just doesn't agree w it?? idk. I think im confused because she's like just being ok w it, saying its wrong, but letting them do what they want? idk.... its like only half way “right” I feel like.

but idk... I support harry. I think people should wear what they want and that gender roles shouldn't be so strong, or there at all really. wear what you want. be kind. love everyone. the end.

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