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dailypepe · 2 years

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Today I'm going to talk about Seymour lore! Because this is something that makes me insane. Whenever someone asks Pepe about what happened to Seymour after Muppets Tonight, Pepe gives a completely different explanation every single time. There's even a whole list of them on Muppet Wiki.

Are they all true? Are none of them true? I'm inclined to think that Pepe doesn't actually know and is just making stuff up whenever he's asked, but it could be anything. I put together as much as I could find about the list on the Wiki, and here it is, with my thoughts (cut because it got long):

The first instance was at MuppetFest in 2001, when an audience member asked Pepe about Seymour:

(Hard disagree about Seymour not being as funny as Pepe btw, pretty much all my favorite moments in Muppets Tonight have Seymour delivering the punchline in some way.)

Then in 2008, while Pepe is promoting his book (in which he talks about Muppets Tonight but doesn't mention Seymour once), an interviewer asks him about Seymour, and Pepe says that Seymour was deported to India. (Which always struck me as an... un-Muppety choice? Not that the Muppets can't have dark or sad moments, but it's usually not in a real-world systemic injustice kind of way like that.)

Then this interview from 2011 (which I actually found myself and added to the Wiki):

I have no idea what Pepe meant by "gondolier," since aren't those the people on gondolas in Venice? So I just assume he meant some kind of juggler? And "sidekick" is funny to me, since the Muppets Tonight style guide describes Pepe as the sidekick. Also shoutout to the reporter for implying that whatever happened might be too painful for Pepe to talk about, they know what's up.

I read Pepe's "I wonder if they're hiring" as a lowkey dig at the reporter, since he said they needed to get some hobbies (and apparently so do I). I don't think Pepe was asking for himself, since that doesn't sound like something he would say, but now I have the mental image of them performing in the circus together and Pepe himself being juggled. Which he deserves after some of these answers, honestly.

But I wish I had audio or video of some of these so I could at least hear his tone. Which brings me to the next interview, from 2012:

I've searched everywhere for this video, and it seems to just simply not exist anymore. So this bullet point from the Wiki is all I have to go off of. I'm so curious what other details there might've been in the interview, especially since Pepe interviews tend to be unhinged.

And that same day in 2012, Pepe gave this answer in an AskPepe Q&A:

Excuse me while I clutch my heart at "I don't want to be alone." This, plus the 2011 interview where he said Seymour was the one who decided to go solo, is why I've never bought the idea that Pepe ditched him. (Not to mention it just doesn't make sense logistically, how can Pepe have ditched him when he's the one who stayed with the Muppets and Seymour was gone? And when you watch them in Muppets Tonight, Pepe phrases everything as "we" and always talks about them like they're a team. BUT I DIGRESS.)

In 2014, the Muppets Character Encyclopedia came out, saying that Seymour returned to the elevator business (I love everything about his page, there's been so little info about him so I cling to anything we can get):

Then in 2015, Pepe made the coldest tweet of his life:

Though he did later say that he remembers him.

And finally, the 2015 San Diego Comic Con, when Pepe was asked about Seymour during a panel for the upcoming Muppets ABC series:

The "elephant farm" guy is Bill Prady, writer for the ABC sitcom (and inspiration for Chip). Bear in mind that Bill Prady also tried to make Sam/Janice a thing, so if we as a fandom can collectively disregard that, I'm going to go ahead and disregard what he says here too. There's no way I'm going to accept Seymour being dead as canon.

But that's the most recent answer we've gotten. Pepe has tweeted a couple times since then that he isn't sure where Seymour is, and I don't know if we'll be hearing about any more random Seymour adventures in the future, but I hope this isn't it!

Idk, I just wish we were given something more than this. I know characters get dropped all the time, but I can't think of any other instance in the Muppets where two characters debut as a duo and are portrayed as totally joined at the hip, then one just disappears and is literally never seen again, not even in the background, barely even mentioned unless someone asks, while the other goes on to be huge enough to be part of the main cast. Muppets Tonight is such an interesting part of Pepe's arc - it's so fun to see him hungry for fame before he gets it, uncool before he was too cool - and Seymour is an undeniable part of his story. So it just kinda makes me sad how he's been treated since, I guess. Or I just have too many feelings about a fictional elephant who hasn't been seen since 1997.

#muppets #the muppets #pepe #pepe the king prawn #pepe muppets #seymour and pepe #muppets tonight #interviews #ask pepe #pepe's tweets

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ectonurites · 2 years

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Who's the person in the red robin costume in those panels from robin you just posted?

ALRIGHT I got this last night after posting about this bit at the end of Robin, so the dude in question is Ulysses Hadrian Armstrong!

Originally introduced as 'The General', he's a kid that's super obsessed with military history and tried to take over the gangs in Gotham (after burning down his private boarding school) in his intro story. Bruce in the story describes him as 'can't be more than ten or eleven' and he is DRAWN that tiny, it makes some things very funny

(Detective Comics #655)

From the start, he is like, very willing to do whatever it takes for power and to play out his military dreams, he's very manipulative and murderous.

(Detective Comics #656)

His whole family except his mom... Does Not Like Him, because of ya know the murderous tendencies he's always exhibited. His mom just puts a blind eye to all of it, much to the rest of their frustration.

(Detective Comics #656 + Robin (1993) #19)

After the initial story in Detective Comics, Ulysses mainly shows up as an adversary of Tim's in the Robin book. They end up going against each other a handful of times

(Robin (1993) #36)

Tim also ends up keeping in contact with Ulysses' siblings (mainly his sister, Hillary) since they helped him out a few times and don't like all the stuff Ulysses gets up to either

(Robin (1993) #47)

After the above conflict gets settled (so like timeframe wise post-Cataclysm ish) he just kinda stops showing up and causing trouble for a long while.

Until several years later (Ulysses on page says he spends two years preparing in #179 so at least that much in-universe time which vaaaguely works out) he resurfaces in Gotham to cause problems again!

He first has a cameo (where it's not yet revealed who he is) in Robin #176 as he steals the Red Robin uniform Jason had ditched during Countdown out of a dumpster. Soon after we see him lurking in the uniform, following Tim around, and Jason's pissed someone took his old suit (even though he's the one that threw it away LMAO)

(Robin (1993) #176)

We actually see him as Ulysses (now having had a HUGE growth spurt) before it's quite revealed he's Red Robin, while Steph crosses paths with him. This is when Steph is going behind Tim's back for Batman, creating challenges for him to try to make him into a better hero. She approached Ulysses to possibly work with him on this, but he shoots her, it's a whole thing. Tim figures out Ulysses is the one acting as Red Robin, and this all eventually leads to the situation where Tim gets the very bad burns in the warehouse explosion.

But yeah basically Ulysses decided he wanted to become Tim's personal version of the Joker... so it's a lot. (in rereading stuff to make this post I've noticed it's actually kinda foreshadowed all the way back in Ulysses and Tim's first story together, where Tim initially writes things off as not a big deal and Bruce brings up how the first time he went against the Joker he thought he was 'just another clown' in Robin #19)

After the warehouse explosion stuff when Tim gets hold of the Red Robin costume, Ulysses steals another person's identity- Lonnie's! He becomes the new Anarky, as around this time it's revealed he's poisoned Lonnie leaving him in a comatose state hooked up to a computer. Ulysses basically just wants to make the city burn, and Tim tries to talk him down by bringing his parents to the scene as that's something that had worked in the past... but his police contact had let the parents bring Matthew and Hillary (his siblings) with them and... things went very wrong with the bombs Ulysses had already put in place.

(Robin (1993) #182)

Ulysses blames Robin for his siblings' deaths (and I mean Tim in a lot of ways blames himself too, but ultimately it was still Ulysses' bombs that killed them) and so later during Red Robin he resurfaces and tries to exact his revenge. He goes about killing several boys who fit the description for Robin/Red Robin as he doesn't know Tim's identity, not really caring how many he has to kill until he gets the right one.

Lonnie from his computer grid leaks info about what Ulysses is doing to Tim, to try to help Tim take him down and stop him from killing anyone else.

(Red Robin #16)

But when Tim confronts him, Ulysses threatens Lonnie's life and Tim chooses to go save Lonnie over making sure Ulysses gets arrested, and that's the last we see of him pre-reboot!

The Prime Earth version of him shows up in Tynion's Detective Comics run in Rebirth but I'm out of image space to try to explain that, so maybe some other time.

Overall Ulysses is like, one of Tim's bigger reoccurring villains that I get kinda surprised people don't talk about more, especially since he does show up in Red Robin which I feel is the Tim content that gets read most often by people.

#sam explains

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cat-scarr · 5 years

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Why does everyone always expect Ben to have the answer to everything?

I know that technically he is the leader of his team. But, I still believe it would be more appropriate for everyone involved to help find a solution rather than just put all the responsibility on him and wait on him to rack his brain for an answer.

I've noticed this is usually true in situations when the problem at hand is quite serious and endangers the lives of more than just a couple people.

This is why Ben is so important...

Ben 10: Alien Force episode “The Final Battle” (part 2)

After losing the Omnitrix to save his friends, an event that would already have a very large impact on Ben, the team doesn't really seem to come up with any great ideas about what to do next. Kevin literally asks Ben “what’s the plan, Tennyson?” To which, understandably so, Ben reacts quite angrily.

There’s already so much for him to be upset about. And now it’s up to him completely to fix it too?

But that’s not even what he’s upset about. He wants to find a solution to fix everything. He literally runs away from them so that he can have some time to come up with one. And what happens in the end?

“I've got a plan.”

Ben 10: Ultimate Alien episode Absolute Power (parts 1 & 2)

This is a very controversial part of the series, and before I say any more, I just want to clear up that Ben did not WANT to kill Kevin.

I can prove this because not only did he never say he wanted to, but he was very clearly VERY conflicted about the possibility that this might have to all end with that conclusion. So much so that he took out his anger on other bad guys because he was so mad at everyone and himself for this turn of events.

He blamed himself and knew that if it all came down to it HE would have to do it. He had many chances to finally put an end to Kevin, but he never finished him. He couldn't bring himself to do it.

But that brings me to my point, they are all depending on Ben for an answer and solution to the problem. And he definitely over analyses every possible option because he knows this. It affects him greatly.

Ben 10: Omniverse episode “The Frogs of War”

Ben was gone for about a month and, although the rest of his team was still working undercover, they didn't really seem to have an immediate solution to the problem. The Earth is literally enslaved. They had no contact with Ben since he was ejected into space, so they had to have come up with something to stop the invasion, but like I mentioned, there wasn't much that seemed to be fixed about the situation.

Even the Plumbers can’t seem to do much without Ben!

They even locked Max up in one of the Plumber’s own cells!

Things seem to get noticeably more under control when Ben comes back. As soon as he comes back, he jumps right into action and does what he’s gotta do (aka what everyone was waiting for)!

This is especially important since news of Ben 10′s return would definitely have aggravated the Incusions, and might make them increase the severity of their attack out of that anger. The fact that not only does Ben come back successfully undetected, but puts a quick end to it all is astounding.

Ben 10: Omniverse episode “OTTO Motives”

This episode is a continuation of what was mentioned in “Mud is Thicker than Water” where Ben is seen frantically running out of the Plumber Base to go help Kevin and Rook with their situation.

He wasn't even a part of what was going on but once again, Ben was the reason for their problem to be solved. Their solution seems to be driving away from their opponent, until they literally get thrown down into a ditch and there’s literally nothing they can do as implied by their panic.

Meanwhile, Ben is pretty calm as he scrolls through his aliens and...

And after he fixes everything again, there is a bit of a ceremony or celebration for his success. This dialogue ensues:

Gar: Ben Tennyson, you have once again demonstrated why you are the greatest hero in the universe!

Ben: Oh, please. You’re too kind. But I couldn't have done it without my friends here! Kevin’s car got totally messed up.

Even though I’d say Ben did most of the work, he still points out his friends and gives them credit. (so why u guyz keep saying he doesn’t??)

Ben 10: Omniverse episode “Breakpoint”

(I’ve been told this episode is based on a popular movie plot, so the characters are “supposed to” act the way they do. But in the context of Ben 10...)

Ben volunteers to go undercover on the mission, to learn more about Fistrick’s operation and find a way to stop them directly. Throughout the episode, both Max and Rook constantly pick on him for “doing things wrong” but at the same time they depended on Ben to solve the problem.

First of all, throughout the entire episode all the other characters did was make him feel inadequate. They said he had “no self control.” They implied that he always chose the “wrong alien” (Wildvine vs Fourarms). They didn't trust him or believe in him, and literally were harsh towards him because they thought he was “getting to close to the case.”

But realistically, even though Fistrick was a bad guy, he made Ben feel included…or that he was good enough to be part of something. But at the same time, they really messed with his head with their obsession of perfection.

It’s important to realize that Ben put himself in danger. Fistrick could have killed them all with that rocket…and all that is focused on is what Ben’s doing “wrong.” He isn't even being what would be considered “cocky.” I'm sure both Max and Rook should know that even as reckless as Ben may be considered sometimes, he’s just as reliable and trustworthy.

You know how I can prove that?

Well...Ben’s been undercover this whole episode, and at the end we learn that Rook also tried to follow Ben’s lead, but he got caught. This leaves Ben to make a decision - either fight Fistrick or save his friend.

In the end it all works out and thanks to Ben, Rook is safe and they both defeat the criminals, successfully stopping their operation.

But please realize Ben was extremely important in this episode (as well as all the other ones I mentioned above). If you take the time to just put yourself in his position, you’ll realize where he is coming from when he (even if jokingly) says that he saved the Universe “like a million times.”

The way everyone depends on him to ultimately “save the day” proves the show would not be better without him because without him, there would most certainly be something missing.

And finally, I’d just like to mention that this kind of dynamic is not only portrayed in the series. It seems to be something so in character for the other characters that it is included in fan works, whether that was intentional or not.

There is a great web-comic which shows exactly this! I’m sure it’s quite popular by now. The following pages accurately display Ben’s team depending on him and how that affects him:

5YL: Fold page 18

5YL: Fold page 31

5YL: Fold page 35

And even if it affects him in the way it does, and he claims to “not have a plan”, he still points his team in the right direction and motivates everyone to believe in themselves.

It’s what he always does.

#this is basically why Ben 10 inspires me part 2 #it kinda goes hand in hand with my previous essay #ben tennyson #ben 10 #ben 10 alien force #ben 10 ultimate alien #ben 10 omniverse #gwen tennyson #kevin levin #max tennyson #rook blonko #5YL #essay files

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clockworkfromspace · 4 years

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The Book v2 chapter 4

Mr. Taio: Self defense.

Zeke: SELF DEFENSE MY ASS! HE DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE IT THAT FAR!

Mr. Taio: One of this worlds biggest threats was created from people treating him like an outcast.

Chris comes in smiling he looks at Zeke "so you got expelled I see?"

he did

I got suspended

"Cool"

eh. now I’ll be bored at home

hey Chris, wanna go get some ice cream?

"Sure"

ok. can we go now Mr. principal, sir?

Principal: Yes.

-Zeke leaves-

k. see you in three days. *looks at Zeke* see you never

*looks over to Chris* what’s the nearest ice cream place?

"Cafe where a friend of mine works but I'll brb" he teleports off

Mr. Taio: Sure you want to let them off that easily?

Principal: I'm sure

well, he left me... somehow. *teleports to the front of the school to meet up with the twins*

Chris yawns and just about falls

Jea helps him not fall

"Thx"

Jea: No problem.

-the twins get on their bus-

Jenifer: You coming, slowpoke?

Chris follows

"Ya....."

Jea: Do we have a new bus driver?

Jenifer: I think its a substitute

Jenifer: I wonder why he's wearing that orange bo tie

Jea: His outfit is kinda silly but I like it.

Driver: Why thank you Jea. -he chuckles-

Jenifer: How'd he know your name?

-Jea shrugs-

Chris sits in his seat and falls asleep

*sits down next to Chris*

Jea: Didn't know you rode this bus

I didn’t either until today

*nudges Chris* yo... Chris. wake up

He groans "fine"

about the principal's office. you just left me... I didn’t even know you could do that

"What?"

"I was with the twins"

Jea: I can vouch for him there.

bro... you just ditched me in the principal's office. I asked if you wanted to get ice cream and you teleported off

"Ask jea and jenny I was with them! wait why were you in the principal's office??"

you didn’t see?

that normie, Zeke? he punched me so I knocked the shit out of him and dropped him off the roof!

Jea: YOU KILLED SOMEONE!?

relax

Driver: Sadly, he didn't

Driver: He caught the kid.

I caught him before he hit the ground.... he’s fine

Jenifer: How do you know?

he got expelled tho

Driver: That's a secret. -he chuckles-

I got suspended for three days tho

he called Chris a bitch so I got pissed

"Wait what he did I didn't know this..."

you were standing right behind me growling

and since when could you teleport?

"That wasn't me"

Jea: You can teleport?

"No"

yes, you can... I saw you

"That was not me!"

Jenifer: Sounds like you've encouraged your first shapeshifter.

so someone that looks like you, with your same powers, but not you?

"Yes..."

why would someone impersonate you?

"I don't know"

well, who do you think it was?

"I don't know"

this hurts my head

"Can I go to sleep now?"

yes

He falls back asleep

-the bus gets to the twin's stop-

Jenifer: Wake up Chris and tell him to turn into a puppy

Jea: Okay.

*looks at the twins* this is y’all's house isn’t it?

Jea: Yeah

-she shakes Chris-

Chris wakes up and turns into a puppy he jumps off the bus

-Jea picks him up and the twins walk to the house-

*Jeff pops behind them* hey

Jenifer: Following us home stalker?

kinda...

Chris yelps

I don’t have anywhere else to go

Jenifer: Where were you staying before you popped into our place?

Chris licks jea's face

nowhere

Jenifer': No where is nowhere. Even under a bridge is somewhere.

pretty much anywhere I could. my parents died when I was 9, and I ran away from the orphanage because the lady was cruel

Jea: I'm so sorry.

it’s fine

-they get to the house-

Chris whispers "when is your dad going to be home?"

Jenifer: He should be home around 6

"What time is it?"

Jea: My phone is dead.

Jenifer: and I broke mine playing some stupid floppy bird rip off

"And I left him inside"

Jea: Left who inside where?

"I swear this is why I hate being a dog I left my phone inside the house"

Jenifer: Speaking of you being a dog, where do your clothes go?

"Still on my human body..."

Jenifer: So what, they just vanished when you morph into a dog?

He nods "yep"

Jenifer: So your previous statement about your home was just proven invalid. You had to leave your phone in the house to morph but you could be a dog and still have it on your human body.

"I forgot my phone at your house"

Jenifer: I understand that but you blamed it on you being a dog.

"Oh.."

Jenifer: Anyways, what are we doing just standing here? -she walks into the house-

-Jea follows-

Chris runs in finding his phone

*follows as well*

"Found it!"

Jea: I'm heading to my room

Jenifer: Okay.

-Jea finds a random comic book on her bed-

*teleports right behind jea and puts a hand on her shoulder* BOO... what’s that?

Jea: Strange.

-the book is titled Mind Freak: The Psychic Psycho-

Jea: AH!

Jea: YOU DON'T TELEPORT INTO A GIRL'S ROOM!

Chris runs into jea's room whimpering

Jea: LEARN TO KNOCK!

it’s too funny tho

-Jenifer storms to Jea's room-

"What do you think you're doing ya perv?"

being bored. *looks at jea* I didn’t know you liked comic books.

-To him, the comic book said something else-

Jea: I like a lot of things though I've never seen this one before.

Jenifer: You read this all the time?

Jea: No I don't.

Another dog comes running and attacks Chris it looks just like him

Jenifer: You even have a poster -she points to a poster of Cloak and Dagger-

Jea: That's Cloak and Dagger. This doesn't even seem to be written by Marvel.

-Jenifer gives her a strange look-

Jea: Look, down here it says "F.A.N Multiverse"

Jenifer: Jea, are you okay?

"The what?"

-she points the comic to Jeff- "You look at it"

-to everyone else, it's a cloak and dagger comic-

Chris turns human "wait jea write down with it says"

-she draws the title page-

-It shows a man in a white lab coat and orange bow tie-

"Wait...."

-he has long hair and an insane grin-

"I recognize that bow"

Jenifer: Our bus driver had it didn't he?

"Ya!"

"Maybe that guy on the comic book is the bus driver!"

-Jenifer tries to remember the bus driver's face-

Jenifer: The bus driver did have long hair like this but the face I'd too cartoonish for me to recognize him.

-Jea picks up the comic and starts looking through it-

#AST

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