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wolfwhiteflowers · 4 years

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RG movies and tv speculations

So since we’ve been getting lil non-confirmation news that the Rick movie(s) will be starting soon (like Jan. maybe), I’ve been thinking about it. Everyone’s reaction is all bringing back the same comments and concerns they said before. The fandom is skeptical and doubtful. Everyone’s tired and want closure. I get that. Anyway, I think it’s gonna happen at least the first one. We waited for like a year and some months for actual news of it starting. lol This all reminds me that it’s all show business, $$$, and hoping for GREAT writing and luck. Eh I really need to somehow have low expectations and stuff. :\ I think we waited more because of new deals, like movies being in theaters/Universal.(and it was always trilogy movies right?) I just want a good ending to Rick’s story. sigh.

I’m excited about the Rick movies starting, but then I’m like idk ..what to expect and, even if we get some kind of an idea, will it be good? idc about Jadis at all (but she’s the one who brings him to somewhere he’s at) Will Heath be there? ...and I hope Michonne will be in those movie(s)!!! It all comes down to great writing, cast, etc. Ahh.

I think I need to write down what I want and hope for...and also think of what would be the most disappointing ways and just be ...expecting less. bleh

-Random thought.. Maggie speculations... and spoilers!

I saw a post about if I still miss Maggie during s10. I realized that I don’t care that much. I guess it’s partly because of the writing and AMC...Maggie didn’t have other friends, loose end arcs in s9. I wasn’t that interested in Maggie in s8 or s9 because it’s like she was not with the TF that much and she’s mostly angry. :\ Then also her friends are all dead in Hilltop. But mainly, I don’t feel like I miss her because, even though it was a shitty “ending/exit” for her, she took her son and went with Georgie in a different community, and they’re doing fine. I think all the comic Maggie moments had been shown already - Negan plots. So in a way I feel Maggie’s story is done and fine/happy ending. But Maggie is returning to the show in s11 (and lil bit in s10 in some way that Idk). I think Maggie will be like a new character. Kind of like how everyone’s changed a bit from the big time jump. I think Maggie will be ..like comic Gov. Pamela or someone like that. Maggie might be president (like in the final comic issue/endgame/future.) Both comic characters are kinda similar. Idk but I’m curious what the writers will do with Maggie in s11. Maggie might be the ..erm “antagonist” or so. Yeah....I hope, if the show does it, it would be interesting and complex. But ofc it’s gonna rile up remaining TWD fans. Idk. ahh I really hope Hershel Jr isn’t gonna be like Sebastian. :| Idk..I liked Hershel Jr’s story even tho it upsets people but I liked his reasons. He misses his dad. So..I think s11 will be like s10 but kinda like Carol and Daryl/TF as the mains and Maggie introducing Commonwealth/communities..as a guest star? supporting character?. Kinda like we say Atlanta group but Morgan isn’t part of it but he’s still part of the group. Anyway, there’s gonna be a lot of traveling ..bigger world..political. Maggie is a main from the other side of the show.

-Other remixes (plots) I recently noticed that could be shown in s11. I think Aaron will be like comic Rick. Yumiko will be like comic Michonne with the lawyer stuff. Magna will be like comic Dwight-maybe, with not so loyal to Daryl.The mains will be adapting a lot to either comic Rick, Michonne, Carl, Andrea, Eugene’s plots. Lydia is like Sophia or Carl. ???

- So I’m kinda wondering why the first movie is starting their pre-productions now in December. Idk much about movies and just speculating. I’m wondering if it’s to wait till DG is done filming and maybe even NR and MMB/and others to be done with s10. (filming was done before Thanksgiving). Maybe it’s also Jan to March is when the writers and GN are have time to write and set things up to film the movies. They had FTWD and TWD:WB to think about too and scripts. Idk but Gimple thinks he can do it. heh.

Anyway, so if it’s not about the timing or something, it would be cool if NR and MMB are part of the movie(s). They already have the contract deal to work for three years. Which it’s like I guess the show will end in s12? And that deal said like they’re also part of the TWD universe prj. so maybe they also do the movie(s). Idk. For me, I would love to have Carol and Daryl in the movie(s)! I think for show business it would be even better for Gimple to have all the mains and from other shows (FTWD, TWD:WB) in the movie(s) to be part of it. Because the movie(s) is a big deal right? They gotta sell it big. But Idk how that would work. Ahh I would love it if the movie(s) is a big Rlchonne and CaryI movie. :P

-My theory..my wishes...

I think Gimple kinda also wanted the first movie to be made after s10/after Michonne left the show-to find Rick. Idk when the movie will come out in theater but some fans say winter of 2020. So with that theory, it’s like s10 finale, movie-1, s11, movie-2, s12, and this could be where everyone comes together and do movie-3 for the final ending of Rick’s story (and maybe TWD show’s series finale).

oh tv gods, so many promises and commitments. O_O

-My wish so far(or an idea I hope it goes that I have rn)is that I want Carol and Daryl to be part of the movies...like C plot of the movie. I want Michonne to be reunited in first movie or be like a B-plot star of the movie. Idk I have these ideas of how the movie(s) will go and I keep thinking of Lord of Rings for some reason or a movie where characters travel and reunite in the end.

-So I have these ideas so far of the movies. Michonne leaves to find Rick (without the kids). There’s a lot missions and traveling Michonne had to do to get to him, make friends, and maybe once she does find him and is with him, they both fight their way back home. First movie could be about why Rick couldn’t get back to his family, his recovery from his injury, introduce these new characters that are friends and foes.(Maybe some father and son trope in it?) Since, I’m a biased Carol fan/Caryler, I think Carol and Daryl will go travel with the Grimes kids to get the kids to be with their parents. I call it the Carol’s mission. Her story’s endgame might be like being able to have the Grimes kids protected, live, and have them be with their parents.

I feel like the Carol’s mission idea might not happen because it seem like it won’t work out. Maybe Carol’s mission will work in the third movie. I just think it’s part in plan (or not and writers just want Grimes legacy in the show and ratings stuff) that plan to have Carol to look after the Grimes kids as Michonne leaves in s10. Idk why Michonne will leave without her kids..but there’s a reason...idk what. Or, I’m wrong with this kids thing. From the s10B trailer and spoilers.., it seems like it’s Uncle Daryl looking after the Grimes kids. But what about Lydia? It seems like Carol is actually gonna be the one to look after her and be a parent figure to her. Idk why it’s like the writers switched this. In s9 and s10..writers kept like mentioning that Daryl is Lydia’s parent figure. So ?? Unless it’s some kinda pre-set up to the Caryl family? Carol bonding with Lydia, and Daryl bonding with Grimes kids..= Carylydia and Grimes kids. Dixons and Grimes kids. ??? Anyway, I feel like Caryl will be part of the movies and travel or follow Michonne’s path to get her kids to her (in third movie maybe). It would be kinda like Caryl’s New Mexico dream/endgame in a way for them.

So those are my ideas..it’s a mess but it’s on the post. :) Now I go think of those headcanons/fanfics whenever and hope the movies goes... well.

-Man the writers gotta know their themes, tropes,...I hope uh Gimple really planned this story out.

Idk what the heck is gonna happen or how or even to think it will happen. But if the movie(s) do happen, I do hope it’s way better than the SW’s sequel trilogy movies. I hope the movies have good writing and a happy ending where the Grimes family are all together.

#rick grimes movies #*rgm #*twd #this is a mess #twd speculations #made this post 3 times #carol's mission #carylydia and grimes kids #carols mission #twd remixes #twd spoilers #carol peletier #michonne #maggie rhee #rick grimes #daryl dixon #*twd movies #i put too many tags ahh

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twdmusicboxmystery · 6 years

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9x03: Details

Okay, let's talk details. This may be a little bit lengthy.

***As always, spoilers abound for 9x03. You’ve been warned!***

Anne/Jadis and Father Gabriel.

I probably should've talked about this yesterday in my post about plot points, but I didn't want to make that too long.

What we learned in this episode about Ann is a huge deal, at least where Rick is concerned, and possibly where Beth is concerned. We finally got answers to some questions we've had since S7. Remember that in 7x16, when Negan had everybody in the lineup and was going to kill Carl, and right after Jadis betrayed Rick's group, she wanted 10 of something from Negan. He said eight. She pushed for 10, but Negan glared at her and she conceded.

We didn’t know what she wanted, or why. People made the most sense, but we couldn’t be certain. Then of course there was the helicopter. Jadis was getting supplies from someone, but we didn't understand all the logistics behind it. Then, she captures Negan and tries to offer him to the people in the helicopter. It's interesting because he was freaking out at that point. We assumed he didn't know what was going and just wanted to get away. I don't know if anybody linked the helicopter to their conversation about Jadis wanting something from him.

But in last night’s episode, Anne admitted to FG that she was trading people for supplies. Whoever is in the helicopter is engaged in human trafficking. So, confirmation Anne wanted people from Negan to trade for supplies for the Scavengers. And that means that when she tried to get him to the helicopter people, he probably knew exactly what was going on and that's what he was freaking out. Negan has never mentioned any of this to Rick, I'm sure, and neither has Anne.

This is a very interesting development. First of all, the closest we’ve come to human trafficking on the show in the past is Terminus. So it feels like an adjacent callback to that.

This picture has been circulating on social media.

The camper Tara and Heath took is at Jadis’s junkyard. This is pretty much confirmation that Jadis’s people took Heath, but they don't have them anymore. They didn't have him by the time Rick met Jadis. They'd obviously traded him already to the helicopter people. Of course, this hasn't been officially confirmed or anything, but given all the clues, this makes the most sense.

Why is this a big deal for Beth? Well, we’re not sure that it is. It's another possibility for where Beth might be. If she's there, she very well could return with Heath.

The reason this is a big deal for Rick is that this might explain how we could return to the show. Think of it this way. I stand by what I said before about him disappearing into a walker horde and, as was foreshadowed in 7x12, Michonne thinking he was eaten by walkers and is dead. But, as in 7x12, he’ll find a random escape and get out from under the walkers. TF wouldn't know unless he showed up at the gates of Alexandria again.

So maybe he escapes the walker horde, but then these human traffickers get a hold of him. Hell, it might even be Jadis that gives him to the traffickers. She pretty much admitted to FG that that's what she was doing when she kidnapped Rick and held him hostage in S7. Remember, she also put in A on the outside of his cell. It might've been a foreshadow that she would eventually give him to the traffickers.

Depending on where these people are and how hard it is to escape, it really could take years for Rick to make his way back. So again, none of this confirmed, but it’s super exciting.

Side note: I thought it was interesting how deeply hurt Anne was by Rick's suspicion. She mentioned it more than once to Father Gabriel, and it was that, more than anything else, that drove her to leave the group. She felt like she wasn't trusted, and anytime anything went wrong, she would be blamed for it. Given her past, you can hardly blame people for that. I'm not sure where this is heading, but I'm sure it will be a big part of her arc moving forward. Mostly, I just thought it was interesting how much value she places on Rick's opinion of her.

A/B symbolism.

@thegloriouscollectorlady made the comment that maybe A and B stand for alpha and beta. I think there's something to that, or at least to the general idea of it.

Anne asked FG to follow her somewhere. She said that there was another place they could go and they would have lives he couldn't imagine. I kinda don't think she was talking about where the traffickers are. Maybe she was going to take him there, but it sounds like maybe there's yet another community somewhere she knows about. Or she could just be talking about where the traffickers are. Either way, we’re dealing with another place, which presents another possibility for how Beth could emerge.

Anyway, she asked him to follow her somewhere and he refused. She then replied, "and all this time I thought you were a B." I think A represents alpha, or more specifically, a leader. A very strong person. Beta could represent a follower or someone who's not quite as strong. Anne thought Gabriel was a follower and would do as she asked. As it turns out, he does have a mind of his own and is loyal to Rick, so she realizes now that he's not a follower. She's going to trade him to these human traffickers as an A or an alpha/leader.

So, I started thinking about this in terms of all the A's we've seen since season for the prison. Remember that we didn't see any Bs at the prison. Guys, this is actually confirmation of @thegloriouscollectorlady’s 4 Arcs for 4 Communities theory.

Perhaps we saw the A's at the prison to show that all the people at the prison would end up being leaders. All those still alive are. Even the A on the back of Daryl’s shirt at the Sanctuary may have been to show that what he learned while in prison would eventually lead to his leadership. After all, we saw him actually the Sanctuary in 9x01.

On TTD, Pollyanna McIntosh revealed that she does know what the A and B stand for, but couldn't tell anyone yet. She did say she’s excited for everyone to find out. So, they mean something specific in the whole human trafficking dynamic, but this is really interesting symbolically and a great way to help us understand all the A's.

Onto some other details.

We start school that we’ll eventually end at with Cindy executing Arat. Even them showing this first is interesting to me. The beginning mirrors the end, but it's also a clue about where were going to end up. A foreshadowing even though we couldn’t understand what it meant at the time.

We see Justin reanimate as a walker. The camera really focuses on his legs here. At first, I thought these were a random pair of walker legs without a torso attached. That's not the case as it’s Justin, they focused heavily on the legs. It reminded me of 4x01, where Bob saw legs outside the Big Spot. Then, when he's almost bitten, the walker with only one foot crawls toward him. That walker obviously has a torso, but it focused on the walker's legs, too.

We learn that Judith has a cough. We knew from 9x02 there’s a bug going around Alexandria. Another call back to 4a and the virus at the prison.

Also like in 4x01, Rick wakes up and walks through his garden. Specifically, Rick wakes up before everyone else (Michonne is still asleep) and works in the garden. I even think in the 4x01 sequence, we saw him glancing at the graves of the prison. Here, we see him visit Carl's grave with the tomato.

I said yesterday that this is a major turning point. I think that's the reason for all the 4x01 callbacks. This will be the final sequence leading up to Rick's departure. So, they’re putting all these callbacks in.

Michonne is leading! That made me so happy to hear. Rick tells Michonne that she's been leading at Alexandria by herself because he's been working on the bridge. The reason that made me happy is because I've been saying for a long time, since I figured out the 4 Poker Queens theme, that these four ladies that Beth mentions (Michonne, Carol, Maggie, and herself) will have to be leaders in the Apocalypse. We’ve finally reached that point.

Maggie is obviously leading at Hilltop and has been for a while. Michonne is leading Alexandria jointly with Rick, but she's been specifically overseeing Alexandria while he works on other things. And obviously when he leaves, she will be the sole leader there. Carol is definitely leading with Ezekiel. I mean, obviously, we figured that. But Jerry calls Carol “Boss Lady.” It shows that she is an equal leader with Ezekiel. So, we have Carol, Michonne, and Maggie all leading here in the Apocalypse. The only thing missing to fulfill that symbolism from Still is Beth.

They talk about a Richonne baby. I know it's upsetting some people because if Michonne does get pregnant, Rick won't be around for it. But it actually makes me super happy. You all know I’m positive Rick will be back eventually, even if it's not for a few seasons. So, I think it would be awesome if he came back to another child, which is biologically his. But, in a lot of ways, I also hope Michonne doesn't get pregnant before Rick leaves. The reason being that it would be another way to confirm that Rick will be back.

They wouldn’t put this in the show for no reason. It's a definite foreshadow of a Richonne baby. So, if Rick leaves, and they do have years-long time jump, and there's no baby, we can point to this and say, “Hey they specifically foreshadowed a Richonne baby. It's going to happen at some point.”

Everybody notice the anti-Glenn next to Maggie? I saw jokes about this in the fandom, even before the episode aired, and it made me laugh. This guy is super-angry and calling people assholes, so he really is an anti-Glenn, LOL.

We had Richonne family fun day, which was super cute. It's also parallel to Carl spending the day with Judith once he realized he'd been bitten. You could say this is a foreshadow of Rick's imminent departure. Like Carl, he's getting some family time in before he departs. The only difference is that Rick doesn’t know he'll be going, where Carl did.

Rick read Judith The Wizard of Oz! Oh, that made me so happy! I talked about the Dorothy/Wizard of Oz template at Grady HERE. The fact that we now actually have them reading it shows to me that they’ll be returning to Grady and/or Beth soon. Also, the specific part he read was interesting. If listen to the words he read (keep in mind they didn't have to tell us what part of the book he was at; they could have just showed the cover or something) it's when the twister is happening at the beginning and Dorothy is laying on the bed in fear, not sure what to do.

Rick reads, “As the hours passed and nothing terrible happened, she stopped worrying and resolved to wait calmly and see what the future would bring. At last she crawled over the swaying floor to her bed and lay down upon it. Todo laid down beside her. In spite of the swaying of the house and wailing of the wind, Dorothy soon closed her eyes and fell fast asleep.”

So, we have the dog lying beside her (Sirius/Dog Star symbolism) and when she goes into the dream, she wakes up in a totally new place. In terms of template, Beth went to sleep (when she was taken from Daryl at the funeral home) and woke up in a new land (Oz/Grady). It’s a great thing for TD because Dorothy doesn't die at the end of the Wizard of Oz. She has a long journey, a lot of adventures and a lot of obstacles to overcome, but she eventually makes her way back to her family. (Oh, and her shoes are red. At least in the film version.)

I think it's interesting Rick read the part of the story where Dorothy is on the cusp of leaving her home and waking up in a new land, away from her family. On the one hand, this really could represent Rick’s arc. This is why I waited to talk about this until after I talked about Heath. In terms of Rick's arc mirroring Beth’s, if he's going to do a kidnapping arc, then that suggests he's about to go somewhere—as in, be kidnapped—wake up in a new community, like Beth did. That's super important. But, by extension, when he leaves, that's when the new sheriff in town should finally make her way home.

This episode featured the Richonne handhold that we saw in the trailer and in promo pics. It struck me as immensely important, though. Think of it this way. They held hands just like Bethyl in Alone, and we’re only two episode out from Michonne losing Rick in much the same way Daryl lost Beth.

We noted that they had lots of shots of axes in the show. The camera focused on them and we’re wondering if that's some sort of Red Machete reference. (Like Legs, the gal who picked up Red Machete, is about to appear, perhaps?)

Rick mentions leaving Merle behind in S1. Because we think he’s the one who ultimately left Beth behind, that’s important.

Daryl mentioned Glenn, Abraham, and Sasha. I could go a lot of different directions with this. Daryl wants them to be avenged, just as he avenged Beth by shooting Dawn. But then there’s the fact that he mentions them, but still not Beth. We’re getting callbacks to the deaths caused by Negan, which is also just part of this revenge arc. See what I mean? I could say a lot about this, but I don’t think I need to. You get the gist. (Sorry. Trying to breeze through some of the more obvious stuff because this post is already long.)

We had Maggie and Cindy at the cabin in the woods. More of the cabin in the woods theme. They also said on TTD that having the walker fingers coming out between the boards was a direct call back to 1x01. Once again, we could argue that going back to the beginning, new sheriff is about to wake up and find his (or her) family.

I thought Cindy falling through the porch was kind of interesting. It reminded me a little bit of the Hole in the Roof theory, or maybe falling through a bridge? I guess I'm not sure exactly how interpreter it, but it strikes me as symbolically important. I suppose it could also foreshadow Cindy's death in some way.

While fighting the walker, Cindy’s wound reopened.

I talked after 9x02 about how they might be foreshadowing Aaron's death because all the emphasis on the possibility of infection setting in, right? @wdway suggested that perhaps, because they talked about this first with Cindy, it actually might be her death they’re foreshadowing.

T-Nonny in my group also pointed out that, even if they are foreshadowing Aaron’s death, they usually do those kind of foreshadows at least one season in advance, if not more. So, we may lose Aaron at some point, but probably not until at least S10.

So back to Cindy. When Daryl asked if she was all right, she said the wound had simply opened up again when fighting the walker. It reminded me of Rick's hand being bandaged in 4a and how he kept hurting again and having to re-bandage it. We also saw something similar with Abraham in S5. So, this really could foreshadow Cindy's death. If her wound was open while she touching walker guts, there's a very huge potential for infection there.

The other thing I thought about is the possibility that this is merely symbolic. Abraham's wound kept reopening because there was something emotional that he simply couldn't get past. It just wouldn't heal, because he hadn't faced his emotions and dealt with his past. You could say the same of Cindy here. Her wound is reopening because even after all this time, she still decided to get revenge on the people who killed her family. She hasn't healed or faced her wounds.

That led me to think that this could be a show-wide theme. Will all the members of TF heal? Yeah, if they can keep infection from setting in. Unfortunately, we’re seeing infection take hold in a big way in this episode. We’ve got fighting, revenge, the saviors walking off the bridge project, people not working together, and Daryl Maggie taking things into their own hands with Negan. And this will probably lead directly to Rick's “demise.” The infection is definitely setting in, and chances are the repercussions will be tragic.

Beatrice did a small fake out. I don’t know that it’s super significant except that it was a fake out. She pretended to have been hit in the head, but really it was elaborate scheme to keep the Oceansiders’ plan from being discovered.

I noticed when Daryl and Maggie were talking the woods, they found this walker.

It's one of those things that was a little bit random because it wasn't a big deal on the show. They heard something, Daryl lifted his is crossbow, sees the walker, and Maggie shrugs and goes to kill it. They focused on it quite a bit, and it was missing a foot. So more of the missing foot symbolism.

I don't have a whole lot more to say about the end than what I said yesterday. The school community that the Oceansiders used to live in was a parallel for the prison. You could also argue it was a lot like the school we saw with Father Gabriel in Coda. It reminded me of both those things.

It was mentioned in my group that this school the Oceansiders stayed at could also parallel the school scene we saw with Rick and Shane in S2. Perhaps something of foreshadow of Jon Bernthal’s return?

There were also a lot of street signs on the gates when Daryl and Maggie got there. I mentioned this before, when we saw this in trailer, a lot of them say things like no U-turn, Road Closed, Pass With Care, etc. I think they symbolize that, now that the Oceansiders have decided to do this and get their revenge, there's no turning back. This is probably going to divide the communities in a way that cannot be easily healed. And that includes Daryl and Maggie refusing to stop it, and the fact that they're going after Negan. Obviously, they’re making decisions that they won’t be able to backpedal from.

I know a lot of people didn’t appreciate Carol saying every life counts, because she's obviously not had that philosophy in the past. But honestly, I think it shows her growth. It's very true that it's a little hypocritical coming from her, given what she's done in the past. But now that she's happy, with Ezekiel, and mothering Henry, her philosophy has changed. She and Morgan would be BFFs now. ;D

There is also a big X behind Daryl and Maggie here.

At the end, Daryl is carrying the ethanol. Interesting, given that it could be used as fuel for a fire. Daryl’s carrying it on his way to conspire with Maggie to kill Negan. Kinda reminiscent of The Arsonists Lullaby from S6.

Okay, I think that's all my details. Anyone see anything I missed?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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twdmusicboxmystery · 6 years

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9x01: Details

Good morning! So today, I'm going over details.

***Once again, spoilers abound for TWD 9x01. I think most people have watched by now, but if you haven’t, don’t click the READ MORE. You’ve been warned!***

Of course we saw a lot of motorcycles at the beginning. We could call that part of the Bike Theory.

We also naturally saw a lot of horses. I notice the ones between behind and Jesus were both dark and light. Of course, with lots of horses that the characters were writing all throughout.

I want to say a word about the crucifixion walker on the X. First of all, it's on X. (X theory). As I said yesterday, it's one of three Daryl shoots in the head, and because premieres set up for the rest of the season, I think this points to us seeing a crucifixion this year. Maybe not a literal one, but maybe seeing the truth of what happened with Beth.

We also discussed in my group that there are major parallels between this walker and the one outside the moonshine shack that Daryl did target practice on.

We felt like this was a Beth moment because in Still, she got after him for being flippant about killing walkers. She thought it was more respectful to “just kill it,” than to use it in a way that might be disrespectful to the person the walker once was. We think that's why Daryl shot this walker. In truth, using a walker to keep the crows away from the crops is actually a good idea. But obviously Daryl had an emotional response to that and shot it.

I mentioned this in my analysis of the trailer, but there's also a walker in the city, sitting next to the car, just like Rick and Daryl during their “you’re my brother” convo. Not sure why they put this in here, except perhaps to be a little ironic because Daryl and Rick are at odds right now.

I couldn't help but notice a "flip" theme. When Jerry passes Daryl on the bridge, he says, "Clearing the rally point, dude. See you on the flip.” Later Rick and Michonne pass walkers in the city and then flip around and come back to kill them. The writers talked a lot about a literal “flip the script” kind of thing for this season, which we’re hoping means we’ll see Beth. But I feel like they were incorporating this into the episode as the theme.

(The walker Michonne kills when she “flips” back around is the one that was sitting by the car, reminiscent of the “you’re my brother” convo. So maybe symbolic of them returning to stuff that happened in S4?)

When they ride into the city, there are some signs behind Daryl. Before I got a chance to look at them very closely, @wdway identified three different signs with Ps on them.

That mirrors the PPP card Tara found when Heath disappeared in 7x06.

Because we know the Whisperers are coming this season, I still think this probably points to them. Which would mean that Heath is with the Whisperers. Either way, this foreshadows something. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Inside the Capitol building, I was reminded a lot of the compound Rick and Daryl found Gracie in in S8. Mostly because there was so much white and wood interior. Because it was darker inside than out, it also had the Grady lighting going on. It also reminded me a bit of father Gabriel's church and the Big Spot, mostly because TF sneaked around and explored quietly with guns. It just gave me S4/S5 vibes.

Ways in which this episode parallels 4x01:

1.Them entering the Capitol felt a bit like the Big Spot.

2.When Ezekiel fell through the glass floor, it looked exactly like the walker who came through the roof of the Big Spot. (And combine that with Breaking Glass Theory).

3.The “B” painted over a 30 mile-per-hour side. It felt like Beth and 30 Days Without an Accident.

4.Similar but opposite. In 4x01, there was a herd of walkers overtop of the group (at the Big Spot). In this case, there was a herd of rockers underneath the group. In that case, a walker fell through the roof. In this case the human person fell through the floor. You can see the parallels, but it's also sort of opposite. Which adds to the flip the script theme.

5.What happened with Siddiq felt like an echo of what happened to Zach, just with spiders added. (Another opposite: Siddiq didn’t actually die but Zach did.)

6.We saw wooden barriers with spikes around the communities, just like the prison.

7. In 4x01, Zach saves Bob. Here, Ken saves horse.

8. Villain mentioned but absent. In 4x01, it’s the Gov. Here, it’s Negan. Sort of backs up the theory about how they’ll replay the sequence from 4x08, but this time Negan will take the Gov’s place, Rick may take Hershel’s place, and Beth will take Rick’s place.

9. The Daryl/Carol scene. These have been mentioned by others previous when this scene was released as a sneak peek, but to recap: A) Daryl and Carol hanging out and talking casually. 2) She says “stop.” I think in 4x01 it was him that said it. Either way, the line was said. 3) She calls him Pookie. I don’t think we’ve heard that at all since 4x01.

When they find the seeds, the packet says Rattlesnake Snap Bean.

It’s a real thing. As far as I can tell, they’re kinda like green beats but longer and thinner with dark streaks that make them look like a rattle snake. (Source) Hence the name. But this is an example of them specifically using that brand. I mean, they could have shown tomato seeds or something, right? And when was the only time you saw a rattlesnake? In Still.

Michonne looks at a “More Perfect Union” poster, but it’s specifically about the conflicts that led up to the formation of the country. This is obviously a foreshadow of conflicts coming this season, and it probably foreshadows Michonne's leadership.

During the scene where Ezekiel falls through the floor, there's lots of emphasis on people's shoes and boots. It's probably at least in part because they’re showing that the floor is rickety, but we saw a lot of boots in this scene. It jumped out at me.

I said yesterday that I was nervous about Ezekiel maybe dying. After reading spoilers for next week, I'm already less worried. It occurred to me that Zeke falling through the floor COULD foreshadow his death. But the he didn’t actually die here, and I didn’t see any specific death omens. Rather, it was just a close call. If this does foreshadow something, I would say it foreshadows him almost dying, but in the end he’ll survive to make out with Carol for another day. ;D At least, that’s the hope.

Ken said, “Shoeing these horses is a full-time job.” This reminded me of @frangipanilove’s theory about hoofed animals, especially horses, and shoes.

I thought it was really funny when Carol refused the ring. She was being such a girl. At that point. "If you’re gonna propose, do it right! Not on back of a horse!” 😆😆😆

Rosita said something interesting when they discovered the broken bridge. She said, "two other herds merged into Sylvia, so now it's even bigger.” She also said that they took out the walkie repeater on the bridge went out.

It's interesting to me that they're naming herds now. There obviously tracking them and trying to manipulate their pathways. Sylvia means “forest” or “spirit of the wood.”

A repeater for the walkers helps widen the area that can pick up the walkie talkie signal. And that’s been taken out. So their communications have been somewhat compromised. This definitely qualifies as part of the Communications Theme.

After Ken dies, we once again seen a 8:20 clock. Remember that last season, we saw one, particularly in Rick's Old Man Coda. I was originally just going to say that this is still in play, and while we were wrong about it pointing to episode 8x04, obviously this symbolism is still important.

Then I sat and thought about it for a minute, trying to make connections. Remember, Rick's Old Man Coda was actually Carl's vision of the future. In that vision, he saw Negan being a part of the community and making nice with Rick and teen family. I do think they will eventually move toward realizing that vision. The clock could be to show that they will be moving toward Carl's vision as a way of honoring him this season.

But. Remember THIS POST in which M-Nonny discovered that the opposite time (10:10) represents famous people who were shot and killed. So doing 8:20 may represent someone who was shot and lived. And y’all know I think Carl’s death and Beth’s return will be related. And then there was the Phoenix behind Carl. So, I know this isn’t at all definitive, but it's a symbol I'm definitely keeping an eye on.

I thought it was funny during Rick and Daryl’s convo that Daryl said, "We can't make enough corn fuel to run the cars or the trucks." Notice that there was no mention of not being able to run the RVs or his motorcycle. LOL. I get that smaller vehicles take a lot less gas, but it's just a convenient way for the writers to allow him to keep riding his motorcycle, even though there out of fuel. LOL.

The whole charter vs constitution thing was interesting. For the record, a charter is something issued by a sovereign (king or queen, which kind of reinforces the whole 4 Queens theory, btw) while a constitution is written by the people. So for right now, Michonne and Rick are just telling the people how it will be, rather than having them come together and agree on their own rules. Not exactly sure why this was included, but it’s interesting.

With Gregory's death, they might have been specifically doing an antiparallel to Randall in S2. Remember in my Opening Credits Analysis, I noted there was a noose in the barn, and it reminded me of F almost hanging Randall. It also obviously foreshadowed Gregory's death.

I don't disagree with Maggie’s actions (let's face it, the dude really had to go). I do think they’re trying to show that Maggie is becoming a little too dark and brutal for it to be a good thing. So, in S2, TF almost hung Randall, but didn't. Here, Rick and Michonne didn't think Maggie would really hang Gregory, but she did. Maggie is taking a dark stance on things, not unlike Daryl, and it's not entirely healthy.

A few more small details and I’ll shut up for today:

There were tents set up in the Capitol building, which reminded me of the ones on the sky bridge in 5x06.

Oh, and this walker is wearing a sweater that looks just like the one Beth wore in the Bethyl hug scene in 4x01.

There were red umbrellas in the background when the spider walker grabbed Siddiq. Kinda like the red umbrella we saw in 7x16? It’s a Red Object which, once again, probably represent red easter eggs/resurrection.

Right in front of that is a sheet that reminds us of Daryl and Beth putting the tarp over the Rick Bitch walker in 4x12. And it’s yellow! Just so many callbacks.

I haven’t mentioned Xs, but they’re all over: the crucified walker at the beginning. The boat Daryl and Cindy get is resting on wooden Xs. The glass floor has grids, so either boxes or Xs, depending on how you look at them. A vent under one of the Natural History tarp that’s full of Xs. If you just look for them in the episode, you’ll find them everywhere! (X Theory).

I think it's all the details I have for right now. Tomorrow I'll analyze the lyrics of Eldon’s song. Anybody see anything I missed?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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