I don't usually make posts when I'm upset about something (or like, at all) but honestly I'm just. Really sick of the Loki fandom as a whole. Like I'm just tired of all the pettiness and bullshit. And tbh it's on both ends of the Loki series/Ragnarok split. Both pros and antis.

This isn't so much a vague post as it's a vent post for me. You see, I've been having these feelings about the Loki fandom overall for months now, and I've seen certain posts from the positive side where I just want to - jump in and say something, or at least speak for myself as an ""anti"" (hate that word btw) bc the amount of generalizing I've seen that goes on over there wrt ppl who dislike the show is just - well it's fucking frustrating. Like it annoys me bc I've heard every dumb overgeneralization since the show first came out, from not wanting Loki to move on bc we're oh-so-traumatized to we're just bitter bc the show didn't go the way we wanted/our hcs of Loki weren't validated, etc.

I think one that annoyed me the most was the claim that ppl who hate/dislike Sylvie as a character do so out of misogyny. And like - maybe there's some truth there wrt how the character/actress tend to be bombarded with gendered slurs, and yes that's not cool, but I've never referred to Sylvie or Sophia as any slur. (In fact I don't even hate Sylvie - what I do hate is how the writers have set her up as a "superior" contrast to Loki, which to me seems very intentional on their part, particularly wrt the Trauma Olympics™ as in "Sylvie had it so much harder" 🙄 - but I digress). Yet I can't help but feel like I'm being lumped in the "antis are misogynists" bin every time I read any of those posts from the pro side, simply bc I dislike the way a character was utilized. The way those posts are written, the way they sound - it's very black and white, overgeneralizing an entire group of fans, there's no nuance or side notes or disclaimers of "hey - I know not all of y'all are like this, this is just about some I've encountered" - not even in the tags, nothing. And I've just wanted so badly to jump in and say: "hey, anti here and I'm not like that" but I refrain, bc I've grown so tired of all the fandom infighting and discourse that I usually don't have the energy to get into it. So when I see someone from that side of fandom jump on a post and say how they dislike being overgeneralized as a fan, and how they feel like they're being misrepresented, or condescended to... I can't help but feel kinda upset by that, ngl. Part of me just wants to say "yes it sucks, but recognize that your side (if not you yourself) does it too. Some of you folks do it too."

Like I've read posts implying/stating that antis who hate the show lack critical thinking skills - and like, look, there might be a bit of truth wrt, say, calling Sylvie an outright abuser (and even I've been a little guilty of agreeing to view her as a person with toxic traits as opposed to the enemy-to-lovers trope she clearly falls into - tho I still can't really fault myself for not being able to take that romance seriously due to how damn rushed and forced it felt - but that's besides the point). But there's just something about the way a lot of these posts are worded, like yes some posts are pretty reasonable, but others are practically dripping with condescending sentiment (for lack of better words) as if we're fucking stupid for having emotional reactions to media as opposed to critical reactions, when isn't that the point of media and art, to illicit emotions? Like yes, the story might be trying to say something (and it might epically fail in doing so, which is how I view the show overall) but it's also meant to move ppl. And if it fails to do so, or it garners an unintended reaction, or the characterization is too inconsistent or the story telling itself is rushed/filled with inconsistencies then can you really blame fans for, well, being blindsided by disappointment/their emotions as opposed to critically analyzing it? And yes I know this is a matter of opinion, but still.

(Like sometimes a story can be extremely well written overall, and very well thought out and fans will just be oblivious to, choose to ignore or even outright refuse to pick up on the symbolism within a story, or the internal motivations/conflicts within a character, or how a character progresses/character arcs in general. Sometimes fans will even completely and intentionally misread a character in their entirety, and the role they play within a story, no matter how skilled and how excellent the writing is within a piece of art. And sometimes fans will just overall fail to realize the major themes/hints that a writer carefully lays out. Yes this is a thing, and one I've been made aware of in the particular fandom that I'm about to join.)

But then there's stories that are just... lazily/half-heartedly written at best, and so I just don't understand where pro stans get off by being condescending to ppl like me who just couldn't be immersed due to all those flaws in storytelling. Especially when I didn't get enough out of it to even see where a lot of these conclusions fans seem to have drawn from it. Like there are some inconsistencies within the story itself, there are things that just don't make a whole lot of sense, there are many contradictions, I didn't just make them up. And again I know, everyone interprets media differently, but I don't really see what a lot of pro fans have taken from the series, bc I personally don't think its there. And I really don't appreciate being thought of as some kind of imbecile for not "getting it" when the media in question is, objectively... not all that great tbh. And I'm being absolutely neutral when I say that, like I'm literally not even hating here.

And like I could've easily have turned around and made a bunch of posts stating how pro fans are "stupid" for putting so much thought into a piece of media I personally find to be stupid or just lacking in general, but I haven't. Bc one: that's a shitty thing to do to ppl, and two: it wouldn't even be true bc so many ppl who I consider very intelligent have enjoyed this show, and do put a lot of thought into analyzing it, so despite me not really seeing where they're coming from I want to respect that. And look, it's not like I haven't had those presumptuous thoughts or knee jerk reactions, bc yeah I am in an echo chamber too, and I'm no saint - I'm definitely human and I've had some overgeneralized, uncharitable takes. But I recognize this about myself, I don't post that shit. Which is why I get so upset when I see so many other fans do just that.

Also there is a definite misuse of the depiction of torture, which is used to convey certain themes, and that's very unfortunate, and IMO very bad writing/storytelling. I probably would've been a little more charitable towards the series overall if the Sif-beatdown timeloop scene had been scrapped altogether like the writers seriously should've considered doing (due to the fact that torture has so many misconceptions and is grossly excused in the majority of media which has unfortunate real world consequences) and instead focus more on Loki confronting his fear of being alone, if that truly is what the intention for that scene was. Like yes, some antis might go overboard wrt the messaging within the show, but when it comes to things like the atrocious time loop scene... that's not a made up thing we just happen to pull out of nowhere, that's something the writers put in there and therefore, yeah that's pretty fucked.

Then on the other side I'll find myself liking a post from a negative series fan bc I'll agree with the overall sentiment of it, only to unlike it right after reading the tags bc they've said something like "ppl who like this show/movie/etc are stupid" or "if you ever defended or even enjoyed TR fuck you" - and like??? WTF. I understand disliking the show or whatever but why the hell would you brush over an entire group of real, actual people as "idiots" for simply liking a piece of media??? Like - do I think the show was a disjointed mess? Yeah, I do. Do I think it was poorly written? Yes. Do I even think the reasoning behind a lot of these writing decisions was really fucking stupid on the creators part (or at the very least, that they failed to convey their ideas clearly)? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean anyone who's ever enjoyed the show is stupid for doing so, and I say this as someone who does have the knee-jerk reaction to go "how could you like that show, it sucked so much!"

But like, at the end of the day I understand that ppl take different things out of media. And just bc you find something so stupid or unwatchable, doesn't mean others will, and that's okay bc ppl are different and have different tastes and IDK how ppl don't fucking get that??? Like why is this even a hot take when it's literally just a fact???

It's shit like this that makes me feel like leaving the fandom all together. Which I don't really want to do, bc despite everything wrong with fandom and despite my own personal disappointment with the latest Loki/Thor franchise installments I still really love Loki as a character, and I still want to write fic revolving him. I even still want to make friends within the Loki fandom bc that's literally why I created this blog in the first place, to befriend other Loki fans, like I could've easily stayed being a lurker within the fandom but regardless I think at this point it's farfetched to want this bc the fandom's just way too split and way too hostile and way too fucking eager to be uncharitable and condescending af. And I'm just tired. I'm just... really really tired of the pettiness, the condescending attitude a lot of fans seem to fucking have for anyone who might think differently from them.

I'm tired of the gatekeeping - on both sides. It's on both sides. Because saying "real Loki fans would never like/defend TR/the show" and "how anyone can claim to be a Loki fan if they hate him/his own show" aren't so far apart from each other, both sentiments basically say the same thing, just from polarized viewpoints.

And I wish more fans would just recognize that.