ANTI CHORAL SYMPHONY??? BLOCKED???

joking but omg I can't believe mahler 2 doesn't do anything for you it reshaped my bones

maybe if i heard it live or studied it i would change my tune but so far at least mahler 2 does very little for me. i tend not to be a huge fan of late romantic works in general, and the overwhelming length/size/expansiveness of these gargantuan symphonies from the likes of mahler tend to strike me as tedious more than majestic. and as for choral symphonies, i think in pretty much every one of them i've heard post-beethoven 9 i've not been terribly impressed by the addition of vocalists. (honestly, one of the things that frustrates me so much ABOUT beethoven 9 is that it really is the one that makes it work, and beethoven's legacy/impact was such that he made so many other composers think they can do the same things he did just as well if not better, which i think succeeds in very rare cases only...but i digress.) in its smallest form (ie a soloist or two added to a movement or two) it just feels like an unnecessary addition to me, and in its largest form (full choir in every movement that is the true focus of the work, a la vaughan williams' sea symphony) i kind of think these works cease to be symphonies at some point. like, apologies to vaughan williams, but that's just a cantata. you can just call it a cantata. it's okay. i know it follows traditional symphonic structure to some extent but it's vague enough and totally dominated by the singing to be a different genre to me. and returning to mahler for a second, a symphony like mahler 2 feels very much like the precursor to something like das lied von der erde, which is more of a song cycle with orchestra (or a "song-symphony" but you can probably guess by now my feelings on that name). mahler 2 of course isn't quite that voice-heavy but it bears strong resemblance to what would come later in his output, i think; i'm still comfortable enough calling it a symphony, but i'm not entirely convinced that the choir ultimately adds to the genre in mahler 2 or in any other late romantic-modern choral symphony. personally, i'm not convinced that we should even cling so fast to the genre label of symphony for all of these works; many of them i think can (and probably should) be classified with a different genre label, whether it's something extant like "cantata" or "song cycle" or something newly coined and retrofitted (it's not like musicians have never fiddled with the naming of past works without the blessing of the composer before). idk, maybe i'm biased as to accept a much narrower definition of "symphony" than most, but the distinction matters to me.