I don’t know that anyone is interested in T3 fic in the year 2024, but I’m posting this anyway 😌

Fandom: The Terminator

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guys help me my ai bots are writing a better terminator 3 than any of the terminator 3s

Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines Movie 2003

About Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines Movie 2003 Set over a decade after the events of "Terminator 2," John Connor now lives as a nomad, evading detection to prevent any further assassination attempts by futuristic Terminators. However, Skynet sends a new, even more formidable Terminator, the T-X, to eliminate John. In response, a reprogrammed CSM-101 Terminator is dispatched to protect him. Meanwhile, Skynet begins infiltrating civilian and military computer systems, posing as a virus, as it prepares to launch a devastating attack. John crosses paths with Kate Brewster, his future wife, whose father, a U.S. Air Force General, oversees military computer systems. As Skynet's infiltration spreads, the world teeters on the brink of nuclear war. Will the outdated CSM-101 Terminator be able to stop the advanced T-X, or is humanity doomed to a grim future?

Genre: Action, Sci-Fi, Thriller Stars: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Nick Stahl, Claire Danes Release Date: 2003 Runtime: 109mins

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Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines (2003)

It was right there and they didn’t use it

So something that particularly bothers me about the rise of the machines/salvation timeline is that the tools were right there at their feet and they just did not use them.

I talked about it a little bit before but I absolutely hate the fact that Rise of the Machines said “you know what. Fate was inventible the whole time fuck you.” (Despite the main quote of the damn franchise and the entire point of the first two movies). There was multiple things they could have done instead of making that- really bad- choice. It hurts because they were right there and pretty obvious options to take but … while I appreciate “well the military just took it over” it doesn’t sit right.

How judgement day happens anyway despite being prevented:

1.) Her father lied

This part drives me particularly insane. They decide “there’s no core or shut off at all oh no!” What the fuck? That’s- ok first, within all logic there 100% should be a central hub for this computer system if not the power it’s specifically drawing from. And secondly why is that your instant thought when being sent to a bunker?

The easier and more clear route to go in would simply by that Brewsters dad simply used his dying breath to save his daughter. He lied about the location to keep them safe - not thinking they’d be able to pull off the shut down “to dangerous, not enough time” etc. so they’re tricked into going into the old nuclear bunker instead of the actual core. Judgement day happens anyway because they spent so much time getting inside that it’s to late to turn around and try again. Boom. (Also why is John calling those computers old? They weren’t even from the 60s he had one in his childhood bedroom-)

2.) The arm!

This one they should have went with all along because it’s literally set up in T2 and has since been made a plot hole (as originally there wasn’t going to be anymore after). Bob lost his arm in the steel mill and it wasn’t destroyed like everything else! Every other piece of future skynet tech is burned except for the arm- cyberdyne could super easily send out for the arm like they did from the first terminator. Set up someone to take over the work- sure it’s all lost but they just need to search for another mind like Dyson. Maybe push his kids in the same direction?

How did they not go with this? “Oh it’s inevitable” you had a way easier plot that made way more sense sitting right in front of you and you didn’t take it!!

Why is there not a bigger fandom for kate brewster and john connor (T3 era)?

Fandom: The Terminator

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Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, 2003

Kate Brewster: What exactly am I in this future of yours?

Terminator: You're John Connor's spouse and second-in-command.

Kate Brewster: [Shaking her head, clearly not pleased to hear that] No, I...

[looks at John]

John Connor: What?

Kate Brewster: [to John] You're a mess.

John Connor: Hey, you're not exactly my type, either.

TERMINATOR: Dark Fate may be good or bad, have ups and downs, but it has a good soundtrack!

Happy Thanksgiving!

For John!

So, Terminator 3.   T2 was such a huge hit that everyone just assumed a third movie was a given, but it took twelve years for it to finally happen.    The Wikipedia article has a section about the delay, but it’s really long and complicated, and I’m not that interested anymore.   The main takeaway is that James Cameron, who directed the first two movies, wasn’t involved in the making of T3.   Apparently, he really wanted to do it in 1995, but by the time the rights and everything got squared away, he got busy doing Titanic and Avatar or whatever else, and he decided that he’d already told the story he wanted to tell in the first two movies.   But he did tell Arnold Schwarzenegger to go for it if he got an offer.  

I guess the reason I’m explaining all of this was because I always thought Cameron did make T3, and the reason Linda Hamilton wasn’t in it was because of hard feelings over their divorce in 1999.  Which sounds kind of dumb now that I type it out.    A fan would think that, because they see actors appearing or not appearing in movies as the ultimate sanction, but for them it’s strictly business.   Arnold was in T3 because they paid him $30 million, not because he desperately wanted to play the character again.   According to the Wikipedia article, Hamilton wasn’t in the movie because there just wasn’t much they could do with Sarah Connor in the story.    Her role was to prepare John Connor for his own role.   This movie features him as an adult, so there’s nothing more for her to do.    Hamilton recognized this, and declined to participate.

I think T3 had a lot going against it, because it had so much to live up to, and fans of T2 had been waiting so long.   I think everyone wanted the T3 movie James Cameron might have made in 1995, but what they got in 2003 was this movie, which didn’t quite live up to the hype.   I’m not sure anything else could have lived up to the hype, though.    T2 had some mighty big shoes to fill.  

The big problem is that it’s basically the same plot structure as T2.  Two more Terminators come from the future and they fight over the life of John Connor.   After escaping the bad Terminator, John tries to stop Skynet from taking over and nuking humanity, and they end up having a final showdown with the bad Terminator along the way.  It really is the same movie in a lot of ways, so it just begs to be compared to T2, which only magnifies its flaws.  

The main difference is that John thought he already stopped Skynet years ago, so he’s horrified to learn that he only postponed the inevitable.    He goes to a lot of trouble to try again, but the audience probably already anticipates that this won’t work.  T2 was ambiguous about this, but T3 actually shows the nuclear missiles launching and destroying their targets.   So it’s kind of a downer to watch.   We even learn that Future John will die in 2032, because the good Terminator in this movie was the one who kills him, before he got reprogrammed to protect Present John.

The other difference is the addition of Kate Brewster, who’s fated to become John’s second-in-command and wife.   The bad Terminator was actually sent to kill her and other would-be Resistance leaders, until it discovers John and changes priorities.    Future Kate is also the one who sends the good Terminator back in time.   I never fully understood Kate’s purpose in the movie, since she’s basically a spare John, but I think they needed a viewpoint character.    In T1, Sarah was the viewpoint character, then it was John in T2.   But in T3, Sarah’s dead and John already knows all about this stuff, so there needed to be a new character with a special destiny.   The trouble is that I don’t think Kate gets a chance to digest this very well, probably because we’ve already covered this twice before already.  

I think this is the movie where the time travel stuff really went off the rails.  T1 was very consistent about establishing a predestination paradox.   T2 hinted that the future could be changed, but never made it clear whether it actually changed or not.   The value was in the attempt, not the result.   But the T-850 tells John that “Judgement Day is inevitable”, and that he only postponed it from its original date in 1997.  So they managed to change the future, just not enough.   Fair, but how does the T-850 know this?   Shouldn’t he be from the same altered future, where Judgement Day happened in 2003?  

Also, this movie introduces more Terminator varieties.   In the first movie, the T-800 is stated to be new in the future.   Then in the second movie, the T-800 admits that the T-1000 is much more sophisticated, because it’s an “advanced prototype.”   In this movie, the T-850 claims to be obsolete, and says the T-X is much more advanced.   So it sounds like Skynet was busily inventing better Terminators for these missions, except it shouldn’t have had time for that.   It lost the war and had to use the time machine as a last-ditch effort.  It’s weird enough that it used the time machine three times, but it shouldn’t have had years to do this.   The Human Resistance captured the time machine shortly after winning the war, right?   I really hope T4 explains some of this.

Roger Ebert called this movie “Essentially one long chase and fight, punctuated by comic, campy or simplistic dialogue."   The first 24 minutes are fairly dull, but once it gets rolling, it’s pretty fun to watch.    But he’s right.   When I watched all the DBZ movies in 2019, I realized that Movie 7 is just one big fight scene, with some slice of life stuff at the beginning to set things up.    T3′s basically the same, with very little else to occupy its time.   T1 had the relationship between Sarah and Kyle, and T2 had Sarah’s hangups and John’s bonding with “Uncle Bob”.   T3 really only has Kate and John hanging on for dear life as their protector drags them through the story.    It’s a fun chase, with lots of guns and explosions and breaking stuff, but there’s not much more to it.  

So what’s good about this movie?  What makes it really stand out?   Well, for openers, the T-X is pretty cool.  The T-1000 was going to be difficult to top, and I don’t think the T-X ever succeeded, but it wasn’t for lack of trying.   She has liquid metal on top of an endoskeleton, so she can disguise herself, but she can’t seep under doors and stuff like that.   Also, she has weapons built into her body, so she’s the only time traveler who could actually bring future weapons with her into the past.   Also, she can control machines, like when she hijacks a bunch of police cars and fire trucks to help her chase down John.   She’s ridiculously overpowered, and she does not give a fuck who knows it.  The previous Terminators at least attempted to keep a low profile, revealing themselves only when ready to attack, but the T-X just wreaks havoc all over the place.    She’s not worried about the authorities or a lack of firepower, or anything at all, so she’s free to execute her mission with reckless abandon. 

Second, I take some solace in John Connors personal crisis in this movie.  He was kind of chill about the whole thing in T2, because he got his mom back and he had a cool robot pal, and they seemed to have the whole Skynet problem figured out.     In this movie, Sarah’s dead, and he doesn’t know what to do with himself.  He can’t quite believe that Judgement Day won’t come, so he lives off the grid and tries to avoid everyone.   He doesn’t want the Future War to happen, but at the same time, his life has no purpose without it.   Later, he becomes despondent and says that he must not be the chosen one after all, because he’s no leader and he never was.  

Except, he is, and he has to be, and he becomes one at the end of the movie, when he finally accepts his fate.   There’s something very powerful about the shot of Kate holding his hand as he prepares to give orders to the other survivors on the radio.  They’re stuck in this dark future now, and they have to see it through together.  

I think, whenever I watched these movies before, that I never really “got” John Connor as a character.  In T2 he was a kid, so I just wrote him off.   He wasn’t John Connor yet, so it didn’t matter much.    In T3, he seemed extremely pathetic, and I took his lack of confidence at face value.   I thought he really wasn’t ready to lead, and he only ended up in that role by default.    But this time around, I see how in T2 he was the moral center of the good guy team.   Sarah was lashing out at everyone and the Terminator only cared about mission objectives, but John kept reminding everyone of the value of human life, and what they were all fighting for.   Even as a kid, he got “it” in a way that others didn’t.   In T3, he’s demoralized, but he still knows how to do this stuff, and how to lead.  He just doesn’t feel motivated until the final act of the movie.  

That didn’t stick with me when I first saw this movie in ‘03, but I’m older now, and less sure of myself than I used to be, and all the validation I get feels hollow and unconvincing.  Like John, I may be aware that I have the capacity to do things, but it doesn’t always feel like it’s enough.  That’s what T3 has that T2 doesn’t.   It’s that crisis of confidence that separates the two films, although it’s subtle enough that it’s easy to overlook. 

How would everyone feel if the Terminator Franchise got the Hannibal treatment?

A TV series that examines and tells an updated, more in-depth version of the story

S1: the War in the Future, kind of like Terminator Salvation or the beginning of Terminator Genisys. We focus on the resistance, John Connor, Kate Brewster, Kyle, and other members and how their world works. The season ends with Kyle going to the past to protect Sarah Connor.

S2: the events of T1, but with more time passing and exploration of time travel and Sarah and Kyle's relationship. the Season ends with the death of Kyle Reese and the destruction of the Terminator.

S3: the events of T2, but with more exploration of characters. Figures like Grace and Dani from Dark Fate and O'Brien from Genisys make appearances. Acting as a secondary antagonist is Miles Dyson’s brother, Jordan Dyson, an FBI agent who is hunting Sarah Connor a la Samuel Gerard from the Fugitive. Also appearing is Arnold as an aged T-800 who interacts with "Uncle Bob". Basically, it's T2 with the really cool stuff from the post-T2 sequels. The season ends with the destruction of the T-1000 and both T-800s and Sarah Connor being reunited with her son.

So, anyone have any comments on this?

commandervisor replied to your post: Susan Sarandon is Mother March, Claire Danes is...

Claire Danes is Kate Brewster, John Connor’s to-be girlfriend in the 3rd Terminator

Oh, yeah!

Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines (2003)