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rustyvanburace · 7 months

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Awhile ago, I found sprite rips of nearly the whole cast and NPCs in SMT IV (on Sprite Database). Since I had noticed that the sprites have different heights, and was so enamored by their attentive detail, I decided to make a little height chart for fun and for my own purposes. I even went a step further by slightly rotating bits so the sprites would be standing a little straighter and be slightly more accurate. This was what I had when I posted it (barring Flynn since he wasn't on the sprite sheet):

You'd think something like this would be pretty cut-and-dry. But at the time, I was messaged by someone who was actually bothered to see Jonathan taller than Walter. Their argument was that Jonathan's sprite has noticeably bigger proportions, as though appearing closer, and thus couldn't be an accurate representation of his height. And that since Walter is slouched, he would appear shorter than he really is (which I already did try to correct anyway).

Those are fair assessments and I noticed too that Jonathan's sprite is off compared to everyone else. I was told that I should downscale Jonathan a little to around Walter's shoulders, which I did. But to be perfectly honest -- and I mean this with respect to differing opinions and personal preference -- I wasn't too convinced by their argument and it actually bothered me being approached like that and told how the sprites should be. As though I had made the sprites. They're Atlus's own sprites.

And truthfully, that still bothers me even now. Everyone is of course entitled to their own personal preference and interpretations of characters -- I am hugely supportive of that. But it never sat well with me being told that Jonathan *has* to be shorter and that the game's own sprites were wrong, when I never even asked for their input. It actually left me feeling pressured to portray the characters a certain way in my work.

I don't believe that person actually meant any hostility and I'll ask to please don't bother anyone about this. However, as this did leave a negative impact on me, I would just like to break down my own observations and interpretations of the cast for my own sake.

First, I should add that the in-game sprites were probably not made from scratch, but are most likely downscaled versions of Masayuki Doi's artwork (with some minor edits to give them more natural poses). So of course, the first place to look would be Doi's own artwork.

A lot of this person's argument centered around the characters' proportions, particularly how even Doi's artwork has skewed proportions and are not accurate to scale. Their assertion was that Jonathan's artwork is disproportionately larger and that, when properly measured, he would actually be shorter than Walter.

So I looked into it myself. I took some incredibly high-res artwork of the Samurai -- these are likely press release assets and are the closest I can possibly get to having the unaltered originals. (You can find these on the Fandom MegaTen Wiki.) These are of equal resolution. I lined them up to compare:

(Pro tip: Paint.NET can open WebP files if you wanna compare these yourself. Or just use a site to convert them.)

I asked a couple other people to look at these with me. And we agreed: with all due respect to Doi as a professional artist, the proportions in the artwork ARE weird and (to my eyes at least) are not even equally proportionate to the characters themselves. Others have pointed out that Walter's upper half looks disproportionately smaller to his lower half, and I partly suspect that Jonathan's head is bigger than the rest of his body (even when considering the size of his hair).

Nonetheless, I tried my best to measure the artwork with the 8 heads rule. I even opted to measure a version where I tried to fix Walter's slouching. Granted, not perfectly.

I will fully admit that my attempts at measuring are far from perfect and have issues, as can be seen by the uneven feet measurements (though I partly suspect that may be on Doi). I've also tried measuring these with fixed proportions and found those were even more uneven. If anyone else could take a better shot at this, go right ahead.

But if my measurements can be trusted, then it would appear that they are approximately of equal height. Or at the very least, there wouldn't be a very big difference. Walter could be a bit taller if he straightened up, but I honestly do not think he is slouching too terribly where the difference would be huge if he wasn't.

But also to be frank, these are awful images to measure from lmao. The 8 heads rule really only works for figures that are front or side facing and standing perfectly straight, neither of which applies to these. The angles, poses, and even the uniforms make these very difficult to properly measure and gauge. I honestly don't believe that the artwork are reliable to work with. As I and others have observed, Doi's proportions vary and the artwork may not even have been drawn to scale. This is not at all indicative of Doi being a "bad artist", especially when the proportions seem more purposely stylized for visual effect. I am sure I would find the same thing in Kaneko's own work as well. But aside from this being a good exercise in general art study, my take away from all this is that the artwork just cannot be relied on for a conclusive scale.

All that said, I'm honestly not too bothered by the measurements not working out. Because, when looking at everything else, it's actually clear to me that Atlus had very deliberate intentions in the portrayals of their characters.

As I mentioned earlier, the sprites are doubtlessly shrunken down versions of Doi's artwork. And the sprites actually have some really diverse heights when you look at and compare them all, like Kaga being so small and Skins and Infernal Akira being incredibly tall. Now yes, all of these suffer from the same issues as the artwork in that their proportions vary or their poses would be hard to measure -- but that isn't even the point. The point is that the sprites' heights still vary next to each other and are not all exactly the same. That convinces me that Atlus did take careful consideration in scaling the sprites and had specific intentions for how the cast should be depicted. They're not perfect, but these are hardly what I'd call careless or sloppy.

Yes it can still be argued that Jonathan's sprite proportions are off, because they are. But that doesn't mean that there is no merit to his sprite or that it is inaccurate to what Atlus *intended* for him. The fact they made his sprite as tall as it is tells me that this is the height they intended for him, irrespective of his proportions.

What of Walter then? I do think Atlus actually did take his slouching into account when scaling his sprite (they did for Navarre's sidequest sprite). In that case then, if he straightened up, he would still just be about equal height to Jonathan.

And if so, that would actually align with the game's illustrated cutscenes:

Walter's slouching is a lot more noticeable in the second image, but as already mentioned, I still don't think he'd be much taller than Jonathan or even Flynn if he wasn't.

Since it may as well be brought up, there is also the official side-by-side promotional image as well. This one isn't as good since everyone is in a vaguely triangle-like formation, but this gets thrown around a lot too in debates, so may as well include it for what it's worth.

Now of course, it also needs to be said that Atlus aren't always consistent themselves and there's been instances of character heights varying in other media. Yet regardless, there is a recurring trend that can be observed in the sprites, the cutscenes, and the artwork if my measurements are at all accurate. As far as my own observations are concerned, Jonathan is either of equal height or just a little bit taller than Walter. And to be utterly frank -- I am much more inclined to believe the parent company's own portrayals over someone else's preference.

At the very end of all this, none of this really matters. Fans can portray a fictional character any way they want and there is nothing wrong with that. And -- unless Atlus were to release a book giving the cast's exact heights or were to make a full 3D remake that clearly shows this (both extremely unlikely) -- then who are we to really say what their heights truly are?

No, not even I. Despite my observations made here, I am not going to insist that any of this is true or canon, because I simply do not have the cast's exact canon heights in numbers lmao. This is not meant to tell people how they should portray Jonathan or Walter or anyone else, but merely my own observation. I am not going to tell people how they should portray, draw, or write them. Jonathan or Walter can be short, tall, or in the middle however anyone pleases in their own portrayal and headcanons. That is the beauty of fanworks and personal interpretation of a fictional work.

But just as much as I cannot tell someone they cannot have a short Jonathan, it is also equally not right for someone to tell me that I (or anyone else) cannot have a tall Jonathan. What bothered me about all this was not the person's own personal preference, which is theirs to own and I respect that. But the unsolicited insistence that Jonathan *must* be short, that this is canon, and positioning themselves as right while throwing shade on people who headcanon Jonathan as tall. I frankly found it all very arrogant.

Maybe I am no different by making this post though. But at least I have been able to express my *own* thoughts on the matter when I couldn't before, irrespective of what anyone thinks. Again I must stress to please don't go bother anyone about this. None of this really matters in the end and people are entitled to their own personal interpretation.

And if Atlus does come out and finally gives us canon heights for the cast, then I will happily accept that and be thrilled for new info about my favorite game. But until then or if ever, none of these characters have truly definitive heights and we simply cannot make that call. None of us are "right" or "wrong".

#again this is for my own sake in being able to express myself openly #shin megami tensei iv #smt4 #megaten #rusty's prattles

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