#interview boredinterview
Conversation
Libby Jansing on self-care, snickerdoodles, and divinity.
H: what are you wearing?
L: I’m wearing a striped rainbow sweater and this corduroy jumper thing my aunt got me for Christmas like two years ago. it was hers when she was younger and she gave it to me. she’s like “I saw it and I thought of you!” she’s my godmother.
H: my nanny texted me this morning when I was at cece’s, this picture of these overalls she saw on a facebook ad. she was like “these look like you”, they had like flowers all up and down.
L: that’s so sweet, I love that! I call my grandma nanny too.
H: oh yeah! I feel like we’ve talked about that before.
L: yeah, I love when other people call their grandma, nanny. It’s so sweet. my grandpa who I didn’t really know—he died when I was little—but we called him poppy.
H: dude! I call my grandpa pops, but then on my other side of my family, my dads mom is called grandy. which, she chose that name for herself. she started enforcing it when I was in the womb. and my grandpa, he died when I was little too, but we called him pawpaw.
L: that’s really sweet, I love that. my catholic grandparents were just grandma and grandpa which is like such catholic shit.
H: basic, straightforward, down to business. No frills whatsoever.
L: exactly!
H: so, describe your idea of self-care.
L: I think for me it shifts and changes depending on how I’m feeling. I’ve been really focusing on astrology lately and I think the transits really effect how I interact and take care of myself. It’s been a lot of trying to start new things which I think is because of aries season. starting new things—not even necessarily finishing them—but just starting them is making me feel good. and honestly still just like taking baths every day.
H: yeah, that’s so nice. what kind of new things have you been starting? like creative projects?
L: I’ve started a few things. I’m still working on five commissions that I have left which are projects I need to prioritize since you know they’re for people. I’ve been paid for them so I have to finish them, but I’m getting close on all of them which is good. I purchased a printer so I can print off the shipping labels.
H: hell yeah, that’s great!
L: also my friend Kelly and I are starting a podcast!
H: (excited gasp)
L: it’s an astrology podcast. we also talk about politics, we just have the best interactive mercury signs with one another. I have a gemini mercury and hers is in aries so we just talk talk talk and can’t stop. I’m always thinking constantly but I don’t always take note, I’m better at communicating my ideas out loud rather than writing them out so I’m excited to be communicating on a level like that.
H: yes! that’s so good.
L: yeah, so that’s been fun. I’ve been baking a lot too which I don’t really do usually.
H: amazing. what have you made?
L: I made snickerdoodles the other day just because I had those ingredients in the apartment and like.. they were so good! I felt like I did a really good job.
H: I love snickerdoodle ice cream.
L: snickerdoodles I think are my favorite cookies. I love cinnamon.
H: same! what is something that brings you joy lately?
L: I watch the British baking show a lot, and that brings me joy.
H: I love that show. I need to catch up on it, I know they switched out some of the hosts right? Like Mary Berry isn’t on it anymore.
L: I don’t think anyone’s the same. I haven’t watched the new seasons at all. like the two hosts—I don’t know anyone’s name on it at all—they’re introduced like every episode and I can never remember any names except for Mary Berry. her name is so easy. I know most of them are gone now though.
H: the old ones are nostalgic.
L: it totally does feel like that.
H: okay, what do you miss?
L: I miss thrifting honestly. going to antique stores and just looking at things. I don’t miss buying things, I miss browsing. also I really miss my friends.
H: I feel you. I miss both of those things a lot too.
L: yeah! I miss flea markets.
H: I’ve been so tired of all my clothes too which is so inconvenient! I’m trying to think what I can do at home to alter my clothes.
L: same! I don’t want to online shop for anything that isn’t essential either cause I just feel like that’s shitty.
H: I know. I feel like it’s a little bit irresponsible in a lot of cases.
L: yeah same. I’m also excited to get back in the studio. tommy and I are sharing that studio in Brighton.
H: yeah! the space looks great!
L: it’s part of sew valley. it isn’t really working right now, like their production isn’t going right now. I’m just excited to make clothes but I think I’m going to start crocheting clothes as well.
H: yeah that’s awesome you can just make new shit! It’s a good skill.
what do you not miss?
L: I do not miss working at all. honestly I’ve needed to go to therapy less during this time.
H: (laughing)
L: it’s fucked up. literally that’s how bad capitalism is. like, it’s shitty both ways because I’m not making any money right now and unemployment is really hard to get for whatever reason, but I’m so happy to not be at a restaurant every day. Honestly I think I’ve decided to go to a state school and get my masters in something. I’m thinking about going back to school—that’s what this time is giving me.
H: that’s awesome!
L: yeah.
H: the restaurant industry is so crazy sometimes because it feels like every single day just piles on and you don’t really have time to consider shit like that.
L: not at all.
H: you’re just so spent all the time.
L: yeah I was constantly tired. It was really hard to make things during that time too, I found myself very mentally exhausted all the time. I don’t have the temperament or personality to be a host. I can fake being sweet in that position but it’s hard to be on all the time.
H: yeah, I think that’s the hardest part about it. If you’re having an off day talking to the people who don’t care about you and don’t show you respect is really difficult.
L: yes. that’s exactly it. there’s always people that you meet who are nice, but even people who are kind to you and nice—it can still be exhausting after a while.
H: yeah it’s just so high volume.
L: yes!
H: what is something beautiful you’ve seen lately?
L: there’s a german sheperd that lives above me and this dog is so beautiful. sometimes it sounds like there’s a horse above me (laughing) but this dog is so pretty. I love seeing him every day.
H: that’s beautiful, I love that. that’s a great answer to that question.
describe your concept of divinity.
L: that is such an intense question but I love it. I had a super religious upbringing, going to a catholic school all my life and like even my preschool was Christian. I think I went to one year of public school when I was five. it was a young fives program and it was like… fucking amazing. the public school systems are amazing, we were like planting things in the ground. I think because of that it really engrained in me a need for ritual. catholics are very ritualistic. It’s a very clear stepping stone to me to get into my own spirituality. when I realized, you know—christianity isn’t it. It’s not great. It’s not for me and I don’t think it’s like, net good for the world. I always felt spiritual and connected whether it’s like to other people or the divinity in each other. I feel like everyone has divinity within themselves and it’s just about accessing it and respecting it. I feel like I more so practice it than I know what it is. you know what I mean?
H: totally, it’s a feeling.
L: yeah absolutely. I don’t know what it is. astrology is super important to my spiritual practice and tarot. I don’t know how it works, but it works you know? I don’t understand how these things happen. I love mystery and the mystical. I would be so bummed if I didn’t have that in my life. things that you can’t explain—I think that to me is what divinity is. I see it around me all the time.
H: thank you so much, that was awesome to hear.
L: I love that question. what is it for you, harris?
H: oh man! now I’m being interviewed. I am coming from a similar mind as you. I was not raised religious. I have people in my family like my grandparents are christians but even then we only went to church when I was really little so it didn’t have like a lasting effect on me. in terms of religion I was afraid that it might be real just because of hell, and then I rejected that pretty early once I started to like feel …gay. I was like “this doesn’t add up.”
L: yeah! harris, when I was little and I was like “oh… girls are pretty” probably around eight or something—my reaction was like “I’m going to be a nun when I’m older so I don’t have to think about sex” genuinely! That was my reaction.
H: wow!
L: I feel like I didn’t reject it, I went extreme. that’s like the guilt that comes especially with catholicism, it’s a religion built on guilt. it’s like even if you are worthy of god you’re still a sinner, it’s all built on guilt and like how shit you are as a person. it’s not great, you know? but you started to reject it after you were feeling gay?
H: yeah I stopped putting any stock into religion at all. but I have always been very spiritual as well. I’ve always felt like similar to you, a feeling of connection with my surroundings and things I can’t see or explain. I love astrology because it’s this weird cosmic thing that is just so fun to talk and learn about and somehow rings true. I don’t understand how it’s so accurate but it is. I love the moon (laughing) I love—not to get all over here with it—
L: get over there with it!
H: (laughing) I think poetry is a part of it for me as well, just conjuring things up that feel like they come from somewhere else. there are things that are impossible to understand which is crazy and cool.
L: yeah, I love that. that’s beautiful. thank you harris.
H: yes, thank you!
the next question, what’s your favorite body part?
L: oh my god my favorite body part. I feel like hands are my favorite utility. I’m so grateful for my hands, I think about it all the time. the cutest part for me though is definitely noses. everyone has a good nose.
H: I agree, I agree.
L: it’s such a fixation for people, like an insecurity but I literally see everyone’s nose and I’m like “that’s a cute nose.”
H: yeah! there’s no such thing as a bad nose.
L: no, noses are amazing, I love them. and I feel like smell is such an interesting sense too. it’s so connected with taste. do you remember that chef’s table episode where the chef has cancer on his tongue and he loses the ability to taste and smell the food?
H: yeah!
L: I think about that a lot. smell and taste is so important especially if your life is devoted to it. it does bring a different aspect of joy to life. the external part of it but its function too.
H: yeah, its amazing that he was able to continue and find new ways of creating with food.
L: yeah, so cool!
H: tell me something stupid.
L: (laughing) I could say so many things. because I’m in this new space, this new apartment, my body hasn’t figured out how to be in it yet. I live very much from the shoulders up.
H: YES!
L: and like, from shoulders down we don’t really know what’s happening. it’s a mind of its own. I’m very clumsy. my dad used to call me a bull in a china shop when I was growing up, and that rings true! I’m genuinely not aware of my body. I feel like that’s the gemini stellium, I’m very in the brain and not where the body is. I keep hitting this part of my leg in the same spot every single day and I have this giant bruise. It’s getting bigger because I keep hitting it. It’s in the bathroom, the toilet is just in this location that my body hasn’t gotten adjusted to. it’s the outside of my knee.
H: fuck. you’re body just isn’t with it yet.
L: it usually isn’t with it and in this moment it just has no idea.
H: I hope you start adjusting soon!
L: me too Harris! I think I will. tommy said it’s probably just a matter of time.
H: (laughing) I don’t love that for you but I love it.
L: it’s one of those things I’ll cry in frustration about and then laugh over how silly that is.
H: do you have any confessions to make?
L: (laughing) forgive me harris for I have sinned! confessions, oh my god. I’m transported. probably, you know! I hear my neighbor groaning and moaning a lot and I feel like I’m being too hard on him, you know what I mean? I feel like he’s just a person but my brain is taking me to this place. I feel like he’s an incel that’s going to kill me, and I know that’s irrational. he’s probably just living his life. I have to be careful for myself. I feel like I judge people too hard from a safety standpoint sometimes but I think that’s also without a basis.
Madison: I feel like you’re really good at meeting people though and then changing it. you’re good at not letting your initial judgements cloud when you meet someone.
L: thank you so much Madison, that makes me feel a lot better. I feel like my scorpio rising energy makes me not trust people right away but I try to not let that influence too much. sometimes you have to listen to your intuition but I don’t want it to get in the way of me treating people like people.
H: totally! I also feel like that instinct comes from a place of being a person in the world who is vulnerable. the hesitation is understandable. it’s not necessarily bad.
L: I’m okay having it and I should listen to myself when I’m really feeling something but I don’t want it to get in the way of treating people with humanity, that’s my fear with it. I want to be actively aware of that portion in my brain that jumps there immediately.
H: that’s a practice everybody should be doing definitely.
L: yes, in multiple ways.
H: to bring it to a close I’m going to ask you a series of one word questions.
wanting?
L: food. I’m hungry.
H: wishing?
L: I’m always wishing. fantasy, that’s me. I’m always a little bit in the clouds sometimes.
H: advice?
L: If you have any I’ll take it.
H: I’ll get back to you on that.
L: anyone who feels like they have advice to give me, I’m open. I’m usually not for unsolicited advice but I’m asking for it right now.
H: allowing?
L: myself and others to make more mistakes and not punish them for it. holding people accountable but allowing people to grow and make mistakes.
H: doing?
L: doing crafts! yeah. that’s my answer.
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Conversation
Audrey Patterson on glam, the economy, and ears.
H: hi Axe, how are you doing today?
A: I’m doing okay, how are you?
H: not too bad. thanks for the tea! what kind of tea are we drinking?
A: It’s autumn something and cardamom.
H: oh my god I just got an email from Neil Shusterman who wrote the book—not from him but I guess his like mailing list or something—ask me anything on reddit this Thursday. (laughing)
A: I’m gonna finish it this Thursday and ask him questions…
H: let’s do it.
A: great.
H: yeah, good news.
I guess to give context, what are you reading right now?
A: It’s this really niche series by Neil Shusterman called Unwind… (laughing) it’s good so far. It’s like young adult fiction. It’s been fun.
H: It’s a crazy series.
A: yeah.. it just seems very much like propaganda but I can’t tell on what side it’s going to fall. there’s definitely something to say about like abortion in it and the laws. I can’t tell whether it’s saying “this is why we should have access to abortions”.. or maybe it’s not that, I don’t know.
H: yeah. definitely like the concept of like “unwinding” is like… which I’ll just say for the record, the concept of unwinding in this book is like.. they have a second civil war over abortion and there’s a pro choice side and pro life side and what they come to is that you can’t abort your child from the womb but then from the ages of 13-18 you can have your child “unwound” which is like a new medical technology where every single part of the person gets distributed for transplants so they’re technically still fully alive but living in a “divided state”.
A: so crazy.
H: yeah. anyways, uh what are you wearing?
A: ha, what am I wearing? did you just ask me this? I’m wearing these sweatpants that are like ten years old. they’re like really old. they’re comfy, I wear them when I’m working on stuff at home being gross so they have a bunch of eyeshadow on them and then I’m wearing my hand-me-down—what is it? Ralph Lauren?
H: yeah that guy. zip up fleece. It looks comfy.
A: It’s really comfy, yeah.
H: and slippers. very luxurious.
A: oh yeah. I was wearing my robe earlier too, feeling it.
H: you’re set. so jumping off of that, define glam for yourself.
A: oh god. I…. don’t know if I agree with that word. (laughing) even when I dress up I’m not trying to look glam. that’s just not a word for me I don’t think.
H: maybe give me an adjective when you do dress up, what are you going for? cause I guess glam is like a specific aesthetic. or like very flashy.
A: yeah. and I mean it’s like.. I hate to adhere gender cause it’s like not that but it does feel very feminine to me, the word glam and like it’s association so I just like—
H: I like the flamboyance of the word.
A: yeah yeah. I don’t know if I can think of a word. I was gonna say tough. like whenever I dress up like I want to like feel powerful maybe.
H: totally.
Madison who is also on the couch: this is really good tea.
A: it’s my favorite black tea cause the cardamom gives it a little spice.
H: nice. yeah I really like it. so what’s your go to snack?
A: I feel like it changes. honestly right now I’m—Madison makes fun of me but I love apples and peanut butter as a dessert.
H: oh yeah, I love that too.
A: it’s just like when I don’t have chocolate I’m like—what’s something sweet—and I don’t know.. apples and peanut butter. It just makes me feel good. I’m like fruit!
H: I think we said last night that’s a very earth sign type of dessert. I don’t know why. I can’t articulate why, it’s just not decadent but sometimes that’s what you need.
A: it’s like.. fresh too.
H: it just hits the spot.
A: it does.
H: I get honey roasted peanut butter so there’s like a little bit of sugar there. so what have you been doing lately?
A: nothing it feels like.
H: yeah, okay.
A: going like a little crazy because of that, perhaps. I feel like I haven’t done any ceramic stuff because I’m trying to consolidate my clay now that I know I’m going to run out. I’m like, what am I going to do after that if I don’t have something to do with my hands?
H: yeah. maybe we can like get some sculpey or something.
A: yeah, I think that queen city clay said that they’re delivering but it sounded like it was businesses and schools for educational purposes so I’m not sure if they’re delivering to homes.
H: yeah maybe we can find out. well when you are doing clay stuff do you want to tell me a little bit about your process?
A: I don’t know if I have a process, it depends on what I feel like making that day. I make a lot of spoons cause they’re like a silly object to me. what I think I’m trying to do is figure out how many ways I can make the same object. I do have a lot of spoons that are pretty similar just for the purpose of maybe eventually selling them, people will want a certain kind, I don’t know. Lately I’ve been trying to make vessels. Just as a different process because it feels more fluid. I don’t have a goal necessarily when I’m starting, it just comes along.
H: awesome, thank you. what’s something you’re working towards? It can be anything.
A: yeah, I mean perhaps just like.. I don’t know how to answer that question. I feel like in a very weird place in my life for the first time where I haven’t really had a direction set and it gives me a lot of anxiety. I’ve been the kind of person since I was fucking five years old that’s had like a fifteen year plan. I’ve always known what I’m going to do and I think being in school my relationship to the institution has changed a lot and now I don’t have any trust in my degree or my artistic practice so I feel like I can’t do what I wanted to do so now I’m kind of lost and not necessarily working towards anything.
H: yeah, there’s so much up in the air. so much uncertainty like nobody knows.
A: and especially now.
H: nobody knows the end result and so you can’t plan for anything.
A: the economy… what the fuck!
H: this will maybe be a good transition. describe your concept of evil.
A: evil…. fuck. I’ve had some real personal encounters with evil and encounters with people that I definitely need to go to therapy for… so as I try and distance myself conceptually from them and think about evil generally, when I think of evil I think of manipulation a lot and the weird relationship between people that are evil that are simultaneously aware and unaware of their actions regarding other people. I hate it.
H: to switch it up, what’s something beautiful you’ve seen lately?
A: I’ve seen a lot! can I pull up a picture?
H: yeah! I can put it with the interview.
A: great. I feel like I always take photos which is why my Instagram is the way it is. this is a picture of my cake I made. this is the most recent image that comes to mind.
H: it was a beautiful cake.
A: these pickled radishes are beautiful too. It’s all food.
H: they are beautiful. pink medallions. I love that.
what has been a recent source of inspiration?
A: long term I would say being out of school, I’ve been getting back into poetry which has been very inspiring. especially I’m so glad I get to live with you cause I get to read your poems and read what you’re reading which is very nice.
H: aw! (laughing) I definitely love sharing recommendations. do you have any book recs?
A: I would say Imaginary Museums by Nicolette Polek. It’s very interesting to think about the interview that I listened to before I read the book with Brad Listi whose just talking about her relationship with religion. I remember listening to it and thinking “I don’t wanna read that book it’s about god!” and then I saw it in a book store and I really loved the cover and couldn’t remember where I’d heard the name Imaginary Museums and the author before, racking my brain but I bought it anyways. as I was reading it I realized it’s because I listened to that interview. It was when I was with Madison in Pittsburgh when I was trying to figure it out and I discovered that it was from the interview which was basically an epiphany because I was like “OH shit this is about God!” it was beautiful to discover that for myself, and the book is really really good too.
H: oh, I love that. maybe I’ll borrow it…
A: yes! you should.
H: okay, tell me a secret.
A: let’s come back to this one.
H: okay, what do you miss?
A: …
Madison: can I say a secret?
H & A: yeah!
M: retroactively, I’ve been getting Joe Rogan and Alex Jones confused this whole time… (laughing) I just fucking realized they’re different people!
A: I don’t know who Alex Jones is.
M: he’s the one whose like “the water is turning the freakin frogs gay!”
H: I don’t know Joe Rogan.
M: Joe Rogan used to be the host of Fear Factor! I was so confused! I’m sorry for derailing the interview!
H & A: (laughing)
H: so coming back, what do you miss was the question.
A: oh, what do I miss. I miss working. as an earth sign, a capricorn I need the routine of it and I need to feel—not even powerful but just that I’m doing something worthwhile. I work in a restaurant so it’s whatever but even then.
H: I sympathize with that.
A: this is very shallow to say but I think it has to do with the fact that I live with my best friends, I don’t care to ever go out ever again. people are talking about how they miss going out to bars and that’s just never been my cup of tea and I could go without it.
H: that’s not shallow! I definitely feel that. I miss working I think because—it’s so weird—I miss meaningless tasks. I miss opening and closing. I miss even interacting with customers. and my coworkers, I really miss my coworkers. It’s a strange way to feel.
A: especially with the relationship we’ve had with the restaurant industry in the past. we’ve all been like “the industry sucks blah blah” but now we’re like “I kind of miss it….”
H: and I like… like my job.
M: my thing is that I don’t mind working but I really hate management. I think that if I didn’t have mr. **** expecting things from me. something about having that looming presence lorded over you, it changes the entire thing. also not having management that is willing to back you up is really mentally taxing so most of the stress of my job was working around management expectations and that inhibiting my ability to do my job.
A: and like making coffee—you love that shit.
M: I fucking love that shit! I really like talking to people. It’s kind of exhausting but I like having conversations with people and I’m really good at sticking up for myself within reason.
H: It definitely hits super different to mostly work with people that are nice to you.
A: yeah.
H: tell me something stupid.
A: the economy comes to mind. It’s just stupid. It’s stupid.
H: for sure. If you made a commercial broadcast to the entire nation, what would you say?
A: I would say fuck commercials. this is a PSA, FUCK COMMERCIALS! that’s what I would say.
H: the commercial to end all commercials.
A: yes, that would be great.
H: what is your favorite body part?
A: is this like an ass man or boobs question?
H: the whole body is free game.
A: I think I like ears, ears are cool. I like them as a concept. they’re very weird.
H: yes, so intricate. little machines.
A: and the way that they’re sculpted too. like who decided that they need to be this particular shape to do their job?
H: I think the shape effects the sound? weird.
A: would be a good wiki search.
H: for sure. do you have any confessions to make?
A: not currently but I’m sure I will at some point. they’re coming, we all have confessions.
H: do we?
A: yeah.
H: okay I’m gonna ask you a series of one word questions to end the interview and you can answer them however you like.
hungry?
A: a little.
H: lucid?
A: hardly.
H: grease?
A: love it?
H: weather?
A: hate it.
H: wanting?
A: always.
H: waiting?
A: always.
H: anticipating?
A: always.
H: advice?
A: whatever.
H: wish?
A: yes.
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Madison Mumma on god, animal crossing, and leaving the house.
H: so first question, did you dream about anything last night?
M: yes! I was just telling Audrey. I fuckin dreamt that our front door wouldn’t stay locked. and you guys had like put a bunch of decorations on it, like wreaths and stuff like the things that hang over the door and it holds up—
H: on the outside of the door?
M: yeah, but then you had one that was like also facing inside and there was like something on the corner of the door, you were just being really festive.
H: cool
M: and I noticed that the door was open and I was like that’s not good and so I tried to lock it but the lock like wasn’t working like it was bent or something and it kept sliding out of the lock hole and like the door kept opening inward so I was like trying to put weights and stuff in front of it but it wouldn’t stay shut so I took all the wreaths and all the decorations that you guys worked really hard on off the door and then I was still trying to like barricade it but it wouldn’t stay closed. It was very scary.
H: yeah that’s understandable that you had to take the wreaths off. what do you think it means?
M: um. locks. They’re hard to reckon with.
H: they are. Tell me a secret.
M: Harris. I don’t think I have any secrets from you. and then it wouldn’t be a secret anymore. let me think.
H: we can come back to this one.
M: yeah, let me think.
H: what brings you joy lately?
M: sitting on the porch, and when you guys bring me coffee in the morning so I don’t have to get up.
H: cool. Do you have fun at waterparks?
M: not really.
H: same.
M: they seem really unsanitary. I’m self-conscious and there’s like a lot of kids so I spend most of the time being like you’re gonna hit your head.
H: well my brother actually did hit his head at a water park.
M: great.
H: yep.
what’s your biggest pet peeve?
M: people with bad breath. or people that talk on phones in rooms full of other people. like when they don’t excuse themselves to talk on the phone. Get outta here. Unless it’s like a facetime call with someone I know.
H: when you’re a part of it.
M: yeah, like when Landon called. that was fine.
H: what do you miss?
M: Target. and cooking a big pot of soup for the homies.
H: oh my god yeah I would love to go to target.
M: these socks are from target.
H: nice.
what do you not miss?
M: work. well… yeah, work. I kind of miss making coffee but I don’t miss work?
H: like dealing with the customers?
M: well not even really the customers. like management. I don’t miss talking to my manager. and I don’t miss getting on slack and like food planning for the day.
H: oh yeah cause you had to meal prep.
M: yeah.
H: now it’s like fuck it. just eat all day.
M: chips for lunch. yeah.
H: um, describe your concept of god.
Audrey Patterson: these are good Harris.
M: yeah these are great questions. ummm I don’t think like a god exists. the concept of god?
H: the question is like. like I don’t believe in god for the record but.
M: well I was raised Christian so my idea of god is like… a dude who is just shitty at his job but he like started the company so no one can fire him but if god is real then I don’t like him.
H: right that’s the thing. I’m so confused by people that can go along with it.
M: yeah I don’t get it. like for a guy with so much oversight he’s really bad at making his instructions clear which is like kind of a big deal if you’re like in charge, so. (tongue click)
H: yeah I feel like if god was like a person who you encountered in the real world like what do you think he’d be wearing?
M: I don’t think I would like him. I think he would be like kind of polite and like he’d be one of those skeevy guys whose like got perfect teeth. and wear sperrys.
H: he’d be wearing khakis.
M: I wouldn’t know that he was god but I’d know I didn’t like him.
H: for sure. um, are you thinking about anything right now?
M: um, there’s a lot of lint on my pants, hahaha. I’m trying to pick it all off and there’s too much.
H: that’s just how it is sometimes.
M: they’re made of velvet.
H: I love lint—
M: great. (laughs)
H: (laughing) when you pull it out of the dryer!
M: yeah, I like that.
H: It’s like an object you know?
M: These just get linty so fast and it makes them look frumpy.
H: Yeah. there’s like fluff coming out of this pillow right here.
M: yeah I don’t like that fluff.
H: It’s a very weird kind of fluff.
M: It’s like housing insulation.
H: yeah.. so what’s something you realized lately?
M: this is the year of realizing things.
H: is that it? is that what you realized?
M: Ummmmm. UHHHH. I can’t think of any big ones so yeah.
H: okay. we should probably be almost done here.
M: damn. short ass interview.
H: I know. ummmm.. when is the last time you felt something?
M: (laughing) I don’t know….
H: it’s a fucked up question.
M: uhhhh oh when I found out that Melba was gonna move to my animal crossing town.
H: yayyyyy!!!
M: I was so excited, she’s like an old friend.
H: yeah! do you wanna just say a few words about animal crossing?
M: sure. um, animal crossing is great. I really like it cause it makes me look forward to each day. (laughing)
H: (laughing) yeah.
M: it has me like, excited to get up in the morning.
H: I can put your friend code with the interview.
M: yes!
H: um, okay. What are you nostalgic for?
M: like in general life or like, pre covid?
H: just whatever.
M: mmmmm…. this is kind of depressing but I really miss not being scared to leave the house. Not like because of covid but like when I moved here Id be like I can go on a walk wherever and like so many dumb things have happened to me downtown that I’m like I’ve gotta have my knife, I’ve gotta have clothes I’m ready to run in, I’ve gotta have fucking all kinds of shit.
H: yeah.
M: I’ve gotta be on guard.
H: yeah.
M: which is kinda stupid.
H: yeah.
M: (sigh) I still can’t think of a secret. That I’m willing to tell everybody in the world.
H: do you have something that I already know that my Instagram followers might not?
Audrey from the kitchen: whenever I think of secrets I think of like—I mean I’m just reflecting a lot—so I keep thinking of things that happened in my childhood that like, perhaps I didn’t tell anyone at the time and then I never talked about it ever again.
H: yeah.
A: like, I’ve considered that a secret.
M: yeah… oh! when I was little I got curious about 50 shades of grey but I didn’t wanna buy the book so I read like the first few chapters on an e-book and it was really bad.
H: how old were we when that came out?
M: I don’t know, I was in high school I think so I wasn’t little but I was.. young.
H: yeah.
M: and then I read uh, perks of being a wallflower instead. (Laughs)
H: nice. yeah I always kind of like was curious about 50 shades of grey.
M: It’s not good.
H: right, that I knew.
M: very poorly written. I figured it would be like kind of horny, but it’s so bad that it’s not—
H: it crushes it?
M: it crushes any semblance of like sexual attraction. It’s just bad.
H: okay, um to end I’m gonna ask you a series of one word questions and you can answer them however you feel is right.
hungry?
M: mmmmm… kind of.
H: shoes?
M: breaking em in.
H: dirty?
M: all of my clothes.
H: listening?
M: yes.
H: feeling?
M: ugh. bad.
H: wanting?
M: more snacks.
H: thinking?
M: about snacks.
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Tyler Mechlem on his cat Pete, The Sopranos, and self-growth.
H: how’s it going?
T: It is… I don’t know! (laughing) I’m definitely thankful to have a roommate right now. before this apartment I lived alone for a couple years which was before I had Pete too. that and nobody it would be so much worse.
H: yeah, seriously. I really feel for anyone that lives alone right now.
T: it would be rough. it’s cool you guys have each other right now. I feel bad for people like that too. you’d get in your head even more, even more than I already do.
H: calling people only does so much you know?
what does your day look like usually?
T: right now I have been working some. it’s kind of helped to be around people in the sense of getting your mind off things. having some time to get away a little bit, but of course it’s also scary too.
H: you said you work at Fresh Market?
T: yeah I work at Fresh Market now. and then when I’m not working I’ve been trying to go out and hike when I can, early in the day when there aren’t really people around. and work on music, I’m trying to work on music as much as I can right now which is like not easy.
H: yeah, cause you’re at home?
T: yeah, but trying to do as much of that as I can. so it kind of depends on the day but I’m at least trying to keep myself occupied with projects and things.
H: that’s totally what this is for me as well, it’s something I can work towards and go where it goes.
T: yeah totally, I think it’s a great idea and I’m sure it’s nice because you’re communicating with people.
H: yeah it’s been really nice!
what is your relationship to time?
T: oh to time! that’s a good good question. I think about this a lot lately, it’s kind of weird. when I think back to high school, I feel like I was such a different person it feels like it was another life. it’s weird to look back because I feel like I was just so different. I get kind of scared of the future in ways. I think sometimes I have these idealized scenarios where I’m like “oh yeah, this is going to happen at some point, whatever” and then I’m afraid that it’s not and I’m going to live in some weird regret or something!
H: I sympathize with that. What is your astrological sign again?
T: I’m a gemini, but I’m a gemini / Taurus cusp.
H: I feel like I can be kind of an idealist when it comes to imagining the future. I’m like “it’ll be great!”
T: yeah I feel like I totally romanticize it cause I’m like “oh yeah, at that point it’s going to be like this” but then I might be the same thing I’m doing now and how am I going to make what I want happen if I’m just in my head about it? I need to work on that. I think now is even a weirder time cause you have so much time alone and your mind is going there all the time so it makes it harder, but I’m trying! (laughing)
H: you have a job which maybe helps, but it’s so weird to just spend so much time at home with your thoughts.
T: very!
H: it helps so much to have a reason to get out of your head, and you have to work harder to create that for yourself now.
T: for sure, and it’s weird cause I was actually—before this when I wasn’t working at the grocery store and I was doing music more and other things more and delivering food at night so my days at that point were more open, which is weird. at that point, maybe even more so I had more time to be in my head. it’s been a lot of that for a while now.
H: there’s a bunch of people too who are just as busy if not more busy than they were before, which is wild!
T: all the people that are working from home, it’s a hard transition. I have a few friends that are doing that.
H: tell me something awesome.
T: awesome, wow okay! honestly I talk about him too much, but my cat!
(Harris, Audrey and Madison collectively cheering for Pete)
T: he makes my life so much better, I never thought a cat could do that. I had a lot of cats growing up and they were cool but Pete’s like a human.
H: what is your story with Pete? how did you meet? what was the initial connection like, how did you know that he would be your buddy forever?
T: oh it’s a really funny story. I had thought about getting a cat for a little while and I was over at my mom’s house visiting her and we were drinking margaritas for whatever reason. she just had margarita mix and I was like okay! so we’re drinking margaritas and my sister texts me and she’s like “hey I’m at my friend’s house and this cat just showed up and we don’t know what to do with him” and she’s like “do you want him?” and I’m like “Yeah! just bring him over!”
H, M, A: (laughing)
T: and she just brought him over and that was pretty much it. it’s weird though because I feel like he might have been somebody’s cat that got out. I first I thought he was a stray but he’s always been so loving, he loves people and he’s so good at being a house cat that I feel like there’s no way he was a stray. I might’ve stole him, but I think he’s happier now.
H: and the rest is history. I love that.
what do you miss?
T: honestly I think what I miss the most right now is playing music with other people. that’s a big thing for me. playing music by myself and practicing and stuff it’s a lot of fun and it’s good to do but the dynamic of playing with other people is just something that I love and it’s one of the only things ever that gets me out of my head and I can just totally be free. not being able to do that is just not good. and obviously being able to see people. talking to people on the phone, texting, messaging people is good and it’s good to be able to check in with people definitely but it’s not the same.
H: yeah, for sure.
T: in person is just a totally different thing. I think a lot of people are feeling that way too.
H: yeah. what do you not miss?
T: it’s kind of nice that there’s a little bit more seclusion and certain places are more peaceful because less people are there. part of that is kind of upsetting because of people being locked in but it’s nice to go somewhere in nature and be more alone.
H: I’ve been enjoying that as well.
T: yeah, there’s something kind of nice about it. the hustle bustle, all that craziness. it’s strangely good for people in a way just to know we can make it through, and we can take a break from all that. I think there’s positives to be had if you can look at it that way.
H: I agree, it definitely gives you time to consider what’s important.
T: yeah, definitely. I’m thankful for that.
H: tell me something that has brought you joy lately.
T: I’ve been reading a lot lately. I did non-fiction for a while and then I switched to fiction, and then lately I’ve kind of gotten back to non-fiction. helpful books, mental health type things. my therapist just sent me a book in the mail which was really nice. and recently I’ve gotten back in touch with drawing, I haven’t drawn in such a long time. my roommate is really good, we’ve just been drawing together lately and it’s cool. I stopped for a while, but I’ve gotten back to doing things that I wasn’t doing for a little while.
H: that’s so awesome to hear!
T: yeah it’s been nice.
H: what TV show are you watching right now?
T: I started on the fucking Sopranos. I see why people love it but it is a lot. I said I was going to do one episode a day but I haven’t watched for two or three days. I’ve also been watching a ton of House Hunters. there’s like one hundred and fifty seasons or something like that.
Madison: yeah, there’s like a thousand episodes!
T: and that’s just the normal! you’ve also got the international, and then you’ve got the renovation one.
M: I remember seeing that and freaking out!
(Pete walks on camera)
(collective screaming, hooting and hollering, rambunctious joy)
T: the boy is here!
M: he is so beautiful I could cry! I will cry!
T: his fur is getting so long, look at how fluffy he is!
M: (in a sort of wailing manner) oh he looks so soft!
T: so soft.
M: I love him.
H: he’s so beautiful.
M: that just really made my day.
H: okay, what’s your secret?
T: oh my god, my secret.
H: yeah, what’s your secret to being you?
T: I think my biggest one is learning from my past, especially like childhood and stuff. everything up ‘til now I guess. and I guess learning from other people’s behavior and forming who I want to be based on that. from positive and negative experiences I would say. yeah, I think just learning as much as I can from human interaction so I can take pieces of that from different people and try to understand myself as much as I can. I started this book today and one of the most interesting things about it that kind of clicked with me is that from when you’re born, everything you learn and everything that shapes you basically is derived from other people’s experiences. like religion, or the relationships you see, it’s all kind of based on like what your parents have done and then they’re like bringing that home with you and you kind of form these opinions or beliefs that might not actually be yours just because of what you’re seeing from other people. it’s about breaking that down and realizing who you actually are, which kind of resonated with me.
H: what is the name of the book?
T: it’s called The Four Agreements, I just started it today. I don’t want to say it has religious overtones, but they do get in to that a little bit which I don’t really resonate with. but you can kind of read past that a little bit, the basis of the book so far has a lot of good information though.
H: I love that answer! tell me something you’re confident in.
T: I would say being myself. at this point I know who I am more than I ever have and I don’t know exactly why or how. I don’t know if it’s learning things or through experience, probably both of those and I can definitely get caught up in trying to please other people and not being myself in certain situations but I think at the absolute basis of it, I know my values and my belief system and who I am overall. not to say there’s not like, issues in there cause there’s always more to learn but at the foundation, I do know who I am way more than I used to. in high school I was just lost completely.
H: me too!
T: it’s like a different lifetime. I was in a completely different state of mind. I think I’m proud of myself in that way.
H: when you don’t have that solid sense of self and that self-trust, it’s so hard to function in the world because you don’t know what you need or what to do. that’s amazing that you’ve gotten there.
T: thanks! there’s always more but I am happy about that.
H: yeah! what needs to happen?
T: well this needs to be over first and foremost! I’ve learned enough and I’m ready to move on. (laughing) in other senses, there’s good that’s come out of this for sure but there’s a lot of division overall. now you’re starting to see it. you’ve got like the protestors who are protesting the shutdown and all that. and it’s hard to even have a solution because you can’t just be like “oh everybody needs to come together” like that’s great and all that but how are you going to do that? I don’t know what the solution exactly is but I feel like as always trying to break down that division between people. maybe it’s helping people connect in certain ways, but there’s always more that needs to be done. I wish I had an answer.
H: tyler, how do we solve the world?
T: I don’t know how we go about it exactly. hopefully we can figure it out at some point. (laughing)
H: tell me a lie.
T: okay! I am completely happy and I feel great (laughing). yeah! basically that.
H: tell me something true.
T: something true and something that I’m thankful for is to have some love and support for my family. as of late my mom and I have gotten closer. there’s still some weird things there but we’ve gotten closer and I’m happy about that. same with my sister, she’s growing up. she’s still a little kid but she’s older now and she’s doing some cool stuff. we’ve been talking more often.
H: that’s great! time for some one word questions.
wanting?
T: love and happiness.
H: allowing?
T: acceptance.
H: hell yeah. lucid?
T: for some reason astral projection comes to mind.
H: (laughing) perfect! needing?
T: attention. that sounds negative, but I think we all do a little bit right now.
H: believing?
T: that there is some kind of connection between all the things. I don’t really believe in religion exactly but I want to believe that they’re connected.
H: I want to believe that too for sure. last one, feeling?
T: ease and unease. depends on the moment, I’m kind of going back and forth. when I’m in the forest I feel ease. everything else, I don’t know! (laughing)
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Ellie Parker on poetry, hope, and tiny meltdowns.
H: tell me about your outfit!
E: I’m wearing a shirt which is technically a pajama shirt but it feels more dressy to me, and then underneath I’m wearing just some plain sweatpants. I think they’re cute sweatpants, I do try with my loungewear.
H: yes! fashionable loungewear.
what can you see out your window right now?
E: looking out my window I see the East River, which is right in front of me and then beyond that is the FDR and behind the FDR is a huge line of project housing, and behind that I’m across from Harold Square. I’m really far north in Greenpoint. This isn’t my house, I’m staying at a friends place while quarantine is happening.
H: are you on a hill?
E: no, I’m in a huge new skyrise that they built on the water.
H: woah, cool!
E: yeah, it’s strange. I’m on the twelfth floor and you can’t really open the windows which is different because in my own bedroom I have so many windows which are original to the house and you can open them all the way.
H: the room you were in I saw over zoom in the first two classes we had, is beautiful. the windows there are amazing!
E: it’s technically a sunroom! this place is better for quarantining alone because then I don’t have roommates and I don’t have to worry what comes in and what goes out and who everyone else is seeing and all that. everyone has their own very personal form of how they do quarantine.
H: yeah, for sure. how have you been sleeping?
E: I sleep amazingly!
H: nice, that’s awesome!
E: I sleep well in my own place always but I was worried how I would feel in the new place. the energy here is really nice and peaceful though so sleeping I feel really depends on the energy of your bedroom.
H: yeah totally, agreed.
have you had any interesting dreams lately?
E: I think I had terrible ones last night but I don’t remember. if I ever dream they’re nightmares.
H: really?
E: yeah, I’ve never had a good dream before.
H: wow, never?
E: so if anything I pray that I don’t have a dream! (laughing)
H: (laughing) wow, yeah. all the dreams I ever remember are usually anxiety dreams or just super weird so I get that. I’ve definitely had good ones though. next question, what do you miss?
E: I miss physical touch. mostly because I’m quarantining alone, and I don’t think I’ve touched another human in over thirty days now. I’ve never done that in my entire life. nor do I think any of us should!
H: right.
E: because I hug my friends, I hug mostly everyone that I either meet or say goodbye to. I’m a very affectionate person so I’m a little bit scared of what it will be like after how ever long this goes.
H: yeah. I feel like there will be an adjustment period when it’s safe again. people will probably be a bit reluctant to interact as easily as they used to.
E: yeah. and I think because the number one thing that I miss is physical touch, that’s going to be one of the biggest hurdles of integrating back into social society.
H: yeah.
E: we’re such a sociable species by nature but of course that’s the main issue is that we have to distance. how long will I have to distance? (laughing) when can I touch someone?
H: do you have a person in mind who you want to see once you can again?
E: I haven’t thought about that. I guess just all my friends. it will be so overwhelming for each person. even like romantic touch (laughing) that’s the scary one. with friends it’s so easy to be affectionate but then romantic affection is maybe going to feel very foreign and I’m worried it will be too scary.
H: I guess there’s a comfort in knowing everyone will be experiencing that awkwardness together, you know? it won’t be one sided which is nice. we’ll all be coming back in to it at the same time.
E: yeah. my hope—which probably aligns with many others—is that we can become a community again in some way.
H: yeah me too. what do you not miss?
E: I don’t miss the physical hustle that New York brings to life. we work, we go out with friends, we go to the market, we do normal everyday life things but there’s something about getting around in New York where it just feels like you’re always moving around. you’re moving a million miles a second, I don’t really miss that. there’s a lot of noise outside which creates a lot of internal noise. I love that about New York too, but right now especially in the winter I don’t miss that.
H: yeah. I’m curious, what brought you to New York?
E: I came to New York mostly for my boyfriend at the time. we were doing long distance and I was living in Los Angeles, where I’m from. I applied to SVA and I got in so I was going to finish my undergrad degree after taking time off. but, if I was going to be really honest I wanted to be in the city with my ex-boyfriend. this was like almost five years ago. on my fourth day in New York he dumped me. (laughing) and so you know, New York started off really rocky. I think here, you either fall in love with it or you hate it and I definitely was the former.
H: tell me a secret.
E: I guess this is a personal one that I would maybe only tell to close friends—
H: you don’t have to tell me!
E: I had a few facetime dates with a girl that I met on lex very briefly, and we had been following each other for a while on Instagram but never talked. quarantine happened and then she reached out and wanted to have a facetime date, which we had a few dates and then she asked if she could send me nudes. I haven’t been sent a nude in so long but I said sure and then within like, ten minutes I got two nudes. so then I sent her nudes, and I don’t remember how long it’s been since I’ve sent one either. so there’s my secret.
H: thank you for sharing! (laughing) I love asking people that question, the answers are always so different. people are usually stumped for a second.
E: that’s definitely a secret that’s developed during this time. I was wavering between that one and then a secret—or maybe not so secret which is how neurotic I am about organizing and cleaning. I’m really neurotic and I think I would hide that from most people.
H: I feel like I get it. we have the same sun and rising, like I definitely have some kind of neurosis.
E: some kind of neurosis I think we all have.
H: I’m definitely neurotic about being perceived. the way people pay attention to me, I’m constantly overthinking it. that’s my specific brand of neurosis.
E: interesting..
H: yeah. I’m with you, solidarity. describe your relationship to your computer.
E: I love my computer. I got a new computer a month before quarantine.
H: damn, that’s handy!
E: when you get a new piece of technology, I feel like we mostly become obsessive about it until it feels old again, so I’m very excited about my computer.
H: so you’re still in the honeymoon phase?
E: yes I’m honeymooning with my technology. I love doing facetime on the computer, I never do it on my phone.
H: yeah, I don’t usually do it on my phone unless I’m in bed.
E: I never did this before quarantine. and now the computer has become like, the new TV. in the 1950’s the TV was like the new fireplace that people gathered around. and now I feel like the computer is the new fire we go to, to keep warm. (laughing)
H: no one needs a television too. if you have a computer you don’t really have to have one.
E: it also is the television!
H: it’s everything. what’s something you realized recently?
E: that weekends are really hard for me. I can’t quite figure out why yet, I think I’ll have words for it as more time goes by. I don’t know if it’s because it’s outside of the work week, and I am working part time from home during the week. weekends feel like a wash.
H: yeah, just hard to get through?
E: they’re hard to get through and I get really anxious and depressed and my mood is really unpredictable. on Saturday I did a workout and then I realized I was really grumpy so I had lunch but the stove wasn’t working and I started crying and then I leaned up against the front door and I just closed my eyes. I knew I was going to either have a meltdown, or I need to move my routine around. weekends are for meltdowns.
H: (laughing) yeah, I feel that. I feel so much—I don’t know if this is what it’s about for you but I need to have my brain occupied by something. I can see, since you do have a work schedule how weekends would be a little harder.
E: yeah, very irritable on the weekends.
H: yeah.
E: do you have meltdowns over little things that happen?
H: yes! totally. I have moments where I can’t get out of my head which comes back to the neurosis we were talking about. it creeps up on me. some days I’m totally cool, riding out a good vibe all day and then other days I fixate on little shit. I can always tell in my head when I’m reading in to things but I still have to let myself feel it.
E: it feels so real.
H: right, it’s frustrating because you know what you’re thinking is not based in any real shit but you’re still having to feel it.
E: totally. my friend the other day said she couldn’t find her computer charger and she said that was just the last straw to the day.
H: totally, oh my god.
E: she said she was just crying and (laughing) she couldn’t find it! it just feels like the world is against you sometimes. (laughing)
H: I can imagine feeling so desperate in that moment, cause a computer charger is so important. especially right now.
E: yeah! and we’re so confined, if something doesn’t go our way sometimes you just throw a fit.
H: I remember this one time pre-pandemic. this is a good example of that, I have this non-stick pan and I tried to make a French omelette, and it stuck to my fucking non-stick pan and it ruined my omelette and I just straight up burst into tears. (laughing) I burst into tears!
E: (laughing) because that’s the point of a non-stick pan!
H: yeah, exactly! it’s like a nice, expensive pan. (sigh)
E: I would have a meltdown.
H: my roommate makes them in that pan all the time and they never stick. I think possibly what it is is that I have a dairy allergy so I use fake butter. maybe that’s it? I don’t know.
E: you shouldn’t have to put anything in a non-stick pan though, that’s the point.
H: yeah. that definitely felt like things just weren’t going my way. sometimes you just don’t the where withal to deal with the little shit.
E: (laughing) exactly. crying over an omelette is so funny. it’s so visual.
H: I was definitely laughing at myself too, it’s a ridiculous thing to get so upset over.
to bring us back, what is your relationship to poetry?
E: that’s a sweet question. I’ve always known I enjoyed reading poetry but it wasn’t until I moved to New York that I started to read it voraciously. I love going to the East Village bookstore. it’s been around for so long. they have the best used books, when I was in college I would go there a few times a year and I’d end up buying the most random fifteen poetry books I could find. I discovered new people that way, just piling them into my hands.
H: I love that!
E: that was my first big relationship to poetry and then I met a girl on tinder years ago. we had a one night stand and I was leaving in such disarray but she was like “hold on”, and she handed me this Eileen Myles book. she was like “you need this” so I took the book home. It was Inferno. I read it that summer and it totally changed my life. then I was jumping feet forward into poetry. I feel indebted to her in a way.
H: that’s beautiful that it came from a chance encounter! she casually gave you this book that turned out to be so influential.
E: yeah, I fell in love with it even more and poetry became a real passion. from there I’ve had no real formal training, just reading it so much and it inspired me to start writing.
H: that’s so cool! I was excited to ask that. what do you believe in?
E: I’m doing this really cheesy meditation challenge and the theme is hope. I never thought I’d be a meditation person because it’s so hard to concentrate but during this time I think a lot of people have turned to meditation. anyways, it’s pretty corny but I’ve fully jumped into it so I’m trying to garner my belief in hope. they give you different stories about hope in the meditation so I’m trying to program it into my brain and my body that I believe in hope and the idea is that you believe in hope only in the present moment.
H: that sounds really nice.
E: yeah. not hope for future and not hope in the past but every second that you are in the present. which they also call consciousness so I’m working on believing it and I think I believe it.
H: that’s exciting. do you find it challenging sometimes?
E: yeah. especially during my stovetop meltdown.
H: (laughing) yeah. never forget hope.
E: exactly.
H: what helps?
E: so much helps. meditation, working out, connecting to friends. friends I really connect to that I’ve developed real intimacy with in my life. also it’s been really amazing connecting back with my LA friends. obviously they’re quarantining too and we all have this kind of weird unlimited time so I’ve actually grown closer to some LA friends because of this. one time this girl, we were briefly friends, we went out together a couple times and she told me she was having “a renaissance in friendship”. I loved that, it’s always stuck with me. now that I’m thinking about it I hope for a lot of people there can be a rebirth in friendship because we’re having to rely on each other a lot more.
H: that’s so exciting. I love that phrase. one of the effects this has had is just making you really consider your relationships and value them.
E: yeah, especially now that my dating life has almost come to a complete halt, which I really rely on too much in my life so it’s forcing me to put all my energy into friendship.
H: yeah, that’s cool. I love platonic intimacy.
E: it’s so special. it has such amazing elasticity I think no matter how close, or far, or present. you always go through phases with friends. there’s an elasticity you don’t necessarily have in romantic relationships.
H: both can be so special for different reasons.
I’m going to ask a series of one word questions now! pondering?
E: the East River.
H: wanting?
E: to hold someone.
H: waiting?
E: for summer.
H: allowing?
E: myself to accept that I have no control.
H: seeing?
E: the sunrise and sunset.
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Conversation
Cleo Meyer on her Madonna figurine, and the elasticity of time.
H: what’s up?
C: not much, I just finished listening to the new Fiona Apple album all the way through.
H: how is it?
C: it’s so fucking good. it’s so fucking good! I love Fiona Apple but I’m actually like speechless about how good it is.
H: I’m going to listen to it later today.
C: I think you’ll like it.
H: yeah, I really like her music. tell me about your bedroom.
C: it’s pretty simple, it has two windows which is pretty nice. this is the most well lit room I’ve ever lived in. I haven’t really lived anywhere with windows before so it’s kind of wild.
H: yeah! you used to live in an almost windowless apartment pretty much.
C: yeah, both basements and attics. (laughing) it’s very minimal, I don’t have a ton of decorations or anything. just a bunch of little small things hanging. it’s comfortable, I like it.
H: what is your favorite object that you can see right now?
C: I would say probably this little plastic figurine—it’s like a mcdonalds toy—of Madonna from the Dick Tracy movie. I found her in yellow springs literally on a fucking sidewalk and was just like “oh! this is mine now.” she’s really comforting and it’s funny how you can tell it’s Madonna but also it looks nothing like Madonna.
H: it really doesn’t look like her, but it does. but it doesn’t.
C: yeah. I really only know that it’s Madonna because it’s labeled on the bottom as “Madonna Dick Tracy”.
H: it has Marilyn Monroe vibes too.
C: yeah, exactly.
H: how do you feel about your shoes at this point in time?
C: they haven’t been getting much use (laughing) they’re kind of just chilling out over there. I miss them. I miss them but you know, they get their daily mandated walk—
H: that’s good!
C: —but otherwise they’re just kind of chill.
H: awesome. can you give me some bad advice?
C: go back to work on May first! that’s being talked about right now, I think that’s a big one.
H: that is some pretty bad advice.
C: yeah. I saw the news last night and yeah I was just like … huh. don’t know about that.
H: it’s wild that there are people protesting to open the state back up. bonkers!
C: to die for you know—
H: capitalism!
C: —yeah to work at fucking amazon man. fuck!
H: truly bonkers. (laughing) next question, what was the last thing you ate and what emotion do you associate with that food?
C: I ate a piece of naan with cheese melted on top of it and chopped up veggie sausage so kind of like a flatbread.
H: nice.
C: I’ve been eating that type of meal pretty consistently for most of my life, you know? so it’s super cheap and simple and I need to go to the grocery store. I guess an emotion I associate with it would be calm. it’s calming to make.
H: comfort for sure. tell me something surprising.
C: oh! I dusted my room and I scrubbed out my tea mug so literally things I’ve been thinking about since you know, the before times. I think that’s pretty surprising.
H: hell yeah.
C: at least to me. I don’t know if it’s surprising to you but it’s surprising to me.
H: I… am not surprised by that.
C: (laughing) I’ll have to try harder at some other point then!
H: (laughing) so what do you miss?
C: I miss you.
H: aw, I miss you too!
C: I miss you a lot, I miss seeing people when I’m out taking a walk and not mentally assessing whether or not I should cross the street, use my shirt to completely cover my mouth, all that. just assessing the situation entirely and it’s one of those things where you can’t really judge it by just looking at someone.
H: I have the same feeling. I hate the way that this has made my relationship with just encountering literally anyone. I don’t know.
C: I miss seeing people that I’m not necessarily—we’re obviously really close and we’ve facetimed a few times and I still call some of my friends and stuff like that but I miss seeing the people that I care for but we aren’t necessarily on the level of comfort to facetime.
H: I feel that definitely. there’s a lot of people I’m thinking about but aren’t talking to them as regularly as I would have seen them. like my coworkers. just people you see often and you miss that daily connection.
C: yeah, everything. everything!
H: what do you not miss?
C: I don’t miss feeling like I have to be doing something. like I have to be at my most productive or that I have to be somewhere. that’s good, I’m not working right now which is obviously good, I feel very grateful that I’m not working right now. even though I enjoy my job a lot, it’s been nice to not have to, you know.
H: it’s definitely such a privilege to be able to protect yourself in that way right now.
C: right. it is, I’m very privileged in that and grateful I’m in the position that I’m in.
H: totally. what is your definition of time?
C: fuck! (laughing) wow. (Madison walking by in the background of the call) Hi Madison! I love you Madison!
M: I love you cleo! I miss you!
C: okay, time was longer there, you know? time was longer in that second, I think it’s very elastic. It’s very elastic, particularly right now but even in a small sense the first two hours of my day feel like they last forever in a good way. that’s the most relaxed and happy part of my day at any given time, you know?
H: yeah, savory.
C: yeah but even then that couple seconds just now lasted a long time.
H: it did. I was excited to hear your answer to that one. I feel like my relationship to time has changed a lot since this has been going on.
C: yeah it feels like it’s both moving slow as hell and really quickly at the same time.
H: I agree. yeah. tell me a secret.
C: I don’t think I really have any secrets that you wouldn’t already know, I have to be honest. I really don’t think there are any secrets I have that you don’t know. come back to me on that one, one might pop.
H: tell me a lie.
C: I’ve been getting a good amount of sleep.
H: (laughing) that’s a lie!
C: it’s a lie, it’s a good one.
H: alright, tell me something true.
C: simplistically, I love you.
H: aw. I love you!
C: that’s a true one. I feel immense—just pure emotion with everyone I know right now.
H: yeah. I feel you, I have so much care to give for everyone I love right now.
C: yeah, yeah.
H: I love you.
C: thank you.
H: if your life were a play, who would you want to write it?
C: Sam Shepard.
H: nice, that’s cool.
C: cause like you wouldn’t want—like my favorite play writes are like the Greeks and Tennessee Williams and shit but that wouldn’t end well.
H: it doesn’t seem appropriate.
C: I wouldn’t want Sophocles writing the play of my life cause—
H: it wouldn’t go well.
C: tragic. yeah.
H: Sam Shepard is a good one. he lived on a farm in Kentucky, my mom has met him.
C: yeah you’ve told me that! I’m very envious of that. reading Sam Shepard’s plays as a teenager definitely changed large parts of my life.
H: do you have a specific one to recommend?
C: Buried Child is my favorite one. it’s a sad one but it’s a good one.
H: title sounds sad for sure.
C: yeah.
H: what’s the first good song that comes to mind?
C: Talking Heads, This Must Be The Place. it’s a perfect song for literally always.
H: yeah that one is so euphoric.
C: it reads really well too if you look at the lyrics. it forms in my head in a way that, I don’t know. it’s special.
H: I agree. what helps?
C: routine. literally always. I feel that way even before all this. I feel like I wouldn’t really know what to do without being able to maintain a routine, or create a new routine as situations dictate.
H: yeah my routine has definitely changed but I still have one. I developed a new one.
C: yeah! I wake up, make tea, make breakfast, you know. read a little bit. (Audrey walks across the screen) Audrey! hi!
A: Hi Cleo! how are you?
C: Audrey I love you too!
A: I love you!
H: what were you saying, you’re routine.
C: yep, wake up, make breakfast, take my tit medicine. read. it’s pretty much always that. feed Ianthe, make sure she has water. she’s pissed at me right now cause I kicked her off my lap but—
H: she’ll get over it.
C: she will. she’ll be over it in five minutes.
H: she needs time to brood.
C: yeah, you know, she’s a fickle little bitch but she’ll get over it.
H: now I’m going to ask you some one word questions. respond to them however you see fit.
wanting?
C: wanting people.
H: growing?
C: I’m sure. I’m sure.
H: giving?
C: necessary.
H: becoming?
C: I don’t know. unknown!
H: totally.
hair?
C: shaggy.
H: why?
C: uh. shit.
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