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icharchivist · 11 months

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All of this reminds me of a very lengthy text I sent to a friend once so allow me to just share it with you as well:

I like to imagine that at some point during the 2000 year wait between the revolution and WMTSB, while Belial was on the run, he spent most of his time just chilling among people instead of sitting in like a cave and waiting for his devious plans to work out

It was especially nice when nobody knew what a primal was

He absolutely seduced people so he had somewhere to spend the night and then left them for the next mark days later

So, very parasitic

But it would be really funny if he actually became kinda close to someone for a while

Let's say a random Skydweller he happened across was in the middle of getting mugged, because let's be real, this world has a bandit problem, so he, sensing an opportunity, stepped in and saved them. They were grateful, took him home, offered him a meal and from there it was a short ways into their bed

They hooked up a couple times, he spent a while, everything was fine

They lived a bit further away from the village, so nobody would even know he was there, so he allowed himself to stay a bit longer. They were easy to talk to, they had a house, food, they were always super grateful for his help, enjoyed his company, easy game

After a few weeks longer than originally planned he still decided to leave and originally had planned on never getting back, but ultimately decided that it doesn't matter either way, so why shouldn't he go back and visit them? That person was fun, after all, they had food and space and liked bondage

Because for as gifted a liar as Belial is, he is even better at lying to himself

So he keeps going back to this person and they hook up, he helps out around the house, staves off muggers and monsters, genuinely worries them because it kinda seems like he never sleeps (because he doesn't) and even though he lies about who and what he is, they trust him and like him and it's an unusual feeling, to be wanted

But sure enough he keeps leaving for a few months, sometimes years at a time to fuck around and not stay in one place too long to avoid Michael finding him and running him through with a sword

The Skydweller is fine with it, they're always happy to see him when he gets back. Even if he never seems to age. Meanwhile, Belial absolutely notices that his mortal friend is getting older and that's definitely weird. Astrals don't age, or at least have ridiculously long lifespans, so watching this Skydweller get grey and wrinkly in a manner of decades is super weird

Ultimately, they turn into a frail, old person and the villagers ask them to leave their house and move somewhere else to have someone take care of them, but they refuse; they can't leave, their friend wouldn't know where to find them

So even though it's a struggle, they stay. The winters are getting colder, their joints ache and grow stiffer, but they are holding on until suddenly, Belial kicks down the door all the same, the usual spring in his step, the usual glint in his eyes

Of course it's super weird, seeing them like that, but he still sticks around, tries to help as much as he can, even goes so far as to tend to them when they get sickly, but it's not too long before they pass; it's fine, they insist. They got to see him one last time

By the time he's burying them he realizes that he kinda cared about this person and the loss is kicking in. It's weird, they were just a Skydweller, some random mortal, nobody important like Lucilius, whose loss pains him every day, but this still stings, in a weird way

He keeps his distance from people for a while after that

Meanwhile, the villagers start telling tales of this weird, red-eyed man who always showed up randomly and took care of this person living far out, protecting them from harm. Hell, even to this day, their grave is well tended and frequently adorned with flowers. Almost like someone is bringing fresh ones every once in a while

if the goal was to make me cry today you truly nailed it

all the kudos to you, this is beautifully written and really emotional

This is also a way i would really see it too, in the sense that i feel like it would be super signifiant to have Belial have One Signifiant friendship with a skydweller early in his exile that would justify why he is so bitter in his suicide-rant about how primals will always outlive the people who might care about them and learn about them.

And honestly i love this take on how to do it, especially with this concept of how Belial could leave years at a time without thinking it's too much because by being immortal, time seems different to him (and nothing equals the endless nights without Lucilius in term of missing and longing), and having to realize therefore that what could seem like 10 mins to him sounds like years to his new friend and seeing them slowly fade away with age and everything.

and i love the idea that he would become the local cryptid because against all the odds, he cared, he cared so much, even if he will never be able to put this into words (until Avatar strips down his walls of denial at least) because he cannot admit to himself he cared about anything other than Lucilius ever, because else it would force him to question why he only ever clang to Lucilius and nothing else.

I adore this take, it really makes me all sort of emo.

I feel like in relation to the previous ask about the Belial centric event, this could easily be like in the first few chapters, with the skydweller dying by the time of the 3rd chapter, and for the next 3 chapters you see Belial go back to the grave sometimes / probably also in the epilogue.

really hitting home the ghosts Belial has been accumulating ever since he was on the run.

i love love love the idea thank you SO much for sharing it with me!!

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichafantalks wmtsb

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icharchivist · 1 year

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The one thing that the Dearest Friend event missed out on is showing us Beelzebub

It's heavily implied that he's the dean of their school, because the dean is called Babu. Which is very close to Bubs (Babu-san in Japanese)

I've seen a lot of fanart of Bubs very frustrated trying to deal with the event versions of Lucilius and Belial and it's so good, I wish we had gotten more of that in the event proper

TRUE.... it would have been SO funny to see.

I wish we knew what Bubs was up to because i think it would have been really funny. esp if he was supposed to be the dean of the school bc i can't imagine NOT want to square up with Lucilius even there yaknow.

It would have been so funny.

well instead we got alt!Bubs from Tomoi's fantasy so we still won. Maybe we can merge the two together. It can work out.

#ichareply #ichafantalks wmtsb #anonymous #ichafantalks gbf

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icharchivist · 3 months

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In a way, present day Sandalphon is a great foil to Lucilius, because he also doesn't get answers from the god-like figure he looks to, but Sandalphon knows that his creator loves him and loves him back

TRUUUUE.

Like i mean, Sandalphon and Lucilius were already foil because they were basically driven to madness by the fact they were clearly created by a higher being and they had no idea why, even more so learning later that their creator (Lucifer and Lucio) didn't even know why they were created (Lucifer didn't know Sandalphon's purpose/Lucio doesn't even know how he happened to have a clone). And both of them tried to destroy the world if only so that the absent figure they're blaming for their pain would pay attention to them.

but Sandalphon learnt he was loved, and that his creator would drop the whole world if he had to, if only Sandalphon could be happy. And being loved by the person he devoted himself to at least was enough for Sandalphon to try to figure out how to give this love back to the world around him, the world his beloved loved so much.

while Lucilius is still left on mute by Bahamut, and Lucio treated him more like a curious experiment than someone he could care about (credit where credit is due Lucio still was developping his people skills), and even there Lucilius was already too far gone anyway.

Sandalphon foils people in wmtsb in such a way because everyone who has huge impact on the story is craving for love and recognization or pure free will, and Sandalphon was the one who managed to reach that by being loved by his creator who freed him from all of his burdens, while the rest of the antagonist are left abandonned in some way, and while the Astrals have learnt to be self reliant it left the one primal who stayed behind even more starved for it than they could be.

anyway many thoughts but yeah the way Sandalphon foils Lucilius even more because they were much more similar than Lucilius was to Lucifer actually, which enrages Lucilius, but Sandalphon managed to move past that. Lucilius, meanwhile, is still stuck in this homeostasis he hates so much.

crazy huh....

#alsooo actually many thoughts because technically if the tree is Bahamut>Lucio>Lucilius #then the other one is Lucilius>Lucifer>Sandalphon #and Lucilius treated Sandalphon with the coldness and lack of interest he would blame Bahamut for his own treatment #and while the absence of relationship between Lucilius and Lucio is what cause this whole thing to go wrong #Sandalphon has totally abandonned whatever the Original Creator would want of him as long as he had Lucifer's #but Lucilius doesn't even realize just how he treated Sandalphon the same way he's been treated in that sense #no self awareness whatsoever #playing god and reproducing the exact same mistakes #but Sandalphon transcending anything Lucilius could be because he's allowed to change while Lucilius is not.#anyway head full #ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 10 months

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As someone who thought that the Lucius just had a bunch of nicknames, I’m somehow just now realizing he’s three different people??? :(；ﾞﾟ'ωﾟ'):

i'm sorry to make matter worse, but i think you meant Lucilius... because Lucius is another character who's completely unrelated to the bunch.

But yeah there's three Luci- characters whom we nickname the Lucifaces who have the same face (and same voice actor), which makes things confusing for everyone who's not used to it.

The long story short is that they're clones of one another.

Lucio is the Original

On the left is his real appearance, his real name being Helel Ben Sahar. He's one of the two Speakers of Bahamut, the God of this world. He's basically one of the most powerful person in existence. On the right is his newish appearance, and now he uses the name Lucio as he pretends to be a stage actor to infiltrate our crew. The crew knows something is fishy with him and MC saw his powers in action, but very few people knows about his real identity. He flirts with Sandalphon sometimes but Sandalphon can't stand him.

Personalitywise he's defined by the fact he's teasing and mysterious, and overly loyal to God, despite the fact Bahamut has been ignoring him and his calls for the past few thousand years.

Lucilius is his clone.

No one knows the circumstances behind Lucilius's existence. He's an Astral, one of the immortal people of the stars. He himself didn't know he was a clone if not for the fact he was plagued with dreams of Lucio's life, which made him believe God was tormenting him personally. So he developed a God Complex, coming up with plans to destroy the world and take God's place. He was beheaded by Lucifer during one of his apocalypse plans, and thousands of years later, Belial set up a plan to behead Lucifer in order to sew Lucilius's head on Lucifer's body to bring him back to life. Thus the second zombie look. Currently, Lucio has locked him and Belial in an interdimensionnel prison called the Rainbow Dimension in order to stop them from going on rampage, after Sandalphon stopped their last attempt at destroying the world.

Personalitywise he's cold, mean and calculating, the only person he ever liked was Lucifer, and no one else. He hates God more than anything in the world.

(as a side note his Japanese name is Rushifaa which is the actual way to pronounce "Lucifer" i Japanese. GBF!Lucifer is pronounced Rushiferu, a variation on how Lucifer could be pronounced by accentuating the "r" ending)

Lucifer is Lucilius's clone.

In his convoluted plan to take down God, Lucilius created the very first Primal Beasts. One of the very first (the second one after Belial, in fact) was Lucifer, whom he created to be the idealized version of himself. Lucifer was made to oversee evolution itself. he was considered the light of the skies. Because Lucifer was meant to look over evolution, he was able to evolve himself enough past his programing in order to see Lucilius's destructive way and behead him when his apocalypse plan was threatening to destroy it all. He then watched over the skies for thousand of years before being murdered and beheaded. In his last breath he passed down his powers to Sandalphon, his official replacement and the one person Lucifer always yearned for the presence of, and because of that Sandalphon often has dreams of Lucifer's memories. And because of this bond, he hasn't fully moved on to the afterlife, stuck in between worlds, watching over Sandalphon.

Personalitywise he's kind, caring and dutiful, though a little dense. Also he created coffee. God likes him. Literally Bahamut put Lucio and Lucilius on mute but he actually talked with Lucifer recently-ish and values his opinion. Which is kinda hilarious.

So those are 3 drastically different people, but they are clones of one another with various degree of knowing about it. All of them have also very unique relationship to Sandalphon and it's why the real test is "put Sandalphon in a room with them, you'll know who is who in due time"

So those are the three Lucifaces: Lucio, Lucilius, Lucifer. Three different people. Not to confuse with Lucius who has absolutely nothing to do with those guys.

It's easy once you know i swear!

The more you know then?

#ichareply #pandapillow #ichafantalks gbf #ichablogging wmtsb #here. Lucifaces crashcourse.#also sorry if the Sandalphon description is weird on Lucifer's part but Lucifer legit called him that #the other thing i could have said is that Lucifer also called Sandalphon his one and only solace #but like. if i'm talking about Lucifer's relationship with Sandalphon this ask would be out of control #i already find it incredible i managed to keep it mostly short.

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icharchivist · 2 months

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The moon created God?

The what

From the facts it's like

-Lucio found Eden -Eden has a piece of the core of the Omnipotent in it -Eden can only have been made with the technology of the Moon -But the memories in it predate even the creation of the skyrealm's world -It seems to show That people Settled in this world -It was a world of ruins until Bahamut made something out of this world -yet the Otherworlders still existed so why?

and i think to recall that in basic Moon lore that they have a battle also with the Otherworld

I would assume the world was destroyed by a war between the Moon people and the Otherworld and it forced the Moondwellers to leave.

Maybe they created Bahamut, or influenced him, to terraform our world to save it from the desolation caused by the Otherworld.

but then Phoenix destroyed God in two which split the skyrealms from the Otherworld (?)

is it meant to explain why the Moon is interested in this world?

this is how i'm understanding it at least but this is really confusing to me

#ichareply #anonymous #ichafantalks gbf #ichablogging gbf #ichablogging gbffe #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 6 months

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do you think cygames ever intended to kill belial off during the original run of wmtsb and then changed their mind when they realized how much money this slut was going to make them?

I genuinely can't say, honestly.

He was the result of a writer block and we know he wasn't planned to be this important to start with, and they knew he was the riskiest character they've ever made at this time, so it's actually very likely they would just chicken out and keep it as a one-off villain just to get the plot going.

But at the same time it feels like they probably understood that they had something special with Belial. Because the way he took the direction of the wmtsb franchise by his first appearance infused wmtsb with themes that wouldn't have been this much on the foreground otherwise.

Like, Cygames does dwell in popularity yes.... but, credit where credit is due, Cygames especially dwell in good writing. As much as i'd love to see Belial or Lucifer back again for instance it's also obvious they don't actually want to cheapen how strong wmtsb was by bringing them back because they value writing coherence over popularity, and it's something to really command about it.

The moment Belial was introduced as an antagonist i do think some of the thematic elements of the wmtsb shifted.

With wmtsb starting with Sandalphon's journey and setting Lucilius and Beelzebub as the main antagonists, i think the angle of free will and determinism when you're being created for a goal, a purpose that is out of your reach, was probably the biggest core of the story. It's one that is still there, obviously, but considering the extreme Lucilius and Beelzebub push it on their God Complex, i think it was supposed really do be the core of it all. What makes the sky blue, what determine what you are, can you even change if it's not what the skies had planned for you?

But Sandalphon, Beelzebub and Lucilius all have a similar answer to that: if the universe wants them to bow down, then they'll snap the kneecaps of the universe and have it bow down in front of them instead. They're not going to let this determinism take away their free will.

And honestly i think this is probably why there even was a writer block to start with. Because how to you properly introduce two antagonists that, in essence, do have the same morals as the new protagonist of your saga? Like of course you can make it work, but you need to find a way to write to this conflict to see that it's the nuance in the way they approach free will that matters. And to get there, you need some more useful prompting.

Enters Belial and the unique thing he brings to the table by being something who believes he doesn't have any free will, or at least, who convinces himself he doesn't, despite also living for the chaos of it all.

In a story ultimately about rebelling against your creator, about what you've been set on his earth to do, Belial is all about devoting himself to a whole other level to the point of destroying himself.

And with Belial, suddenly the thematic of devotion ends up becoming more important as well, putting even more focus on Sandalphon and Lucifer's relationship than there would be otherwise. Because Belial serves as a foil to Sandalphon, as the comparaison to show us what were Sandalphon's insecurities about his relationship with Lucifer VS the reality of how loved he was. With Belial, Sandalphon's thematic core ends up stronger by contrast, while also genuinely giving more room to explore the issues that can be raised by the initial conflict.

And it added to the determinism plotline. Lucifer and Belial were created equal, but the pressure of how their creators saw them heavily influenced the way they both approached Free Will, and Belial especially has an unique approach to it all.

And Belial's unique approach to all of those themes is not just something they wrote on the side to try to distract themselves until the story was moving forward: it became the thread linking the thematic together.

Because since the thematics of the others players are all so interwined, it becomes difficult to give them space to breath so they can stand out on their own and tell their own story.

Belial didn't just unblock the story by being fun and quirky enough to unblock a writer block, he unblocked the story by giving the theme that was needed for the rest of the themes to fall into places in the story wmtsb wanted to tell.

and as someone who likes literally analysis, i cannot imagine that this is something they just intended to throw out if it hadn't been for popularity's sake. Granblue is smarter than that in the way it tells its stories imo. I do think they gave Belial MORE focus in 000 BECAUSE of the popularity, but even without the popularity Belial would have had something important to bring to the story.

so yeah personally i can't imagine them thinking about killing Belial off by wmtsb p2 if it hadn't been for popularity. I think the moment they commited with this character they realized they couldn't move forward with just the thread he was giving to the plot to start with.

but maybe i'm being too optimistic on the reasons why a gacha keeps a popular character around lol

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 3 months

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I agree, once he gets Lucifer back, Sandy is just clinging to him for a solid week

They're locked up in a room together because they're so unwilling to share each other, because I think Lucifer might just be the more jealous one of the two, considering he kept Sandy a secret

They might also fuck nasty in there, but that's up for you to decide for yourself

They might also just chat and maybe kiss a little, if that's what you prefer

DMKFJDFDF choose your own adventure: the anon ask

i admit that i don't think about them sexually much (though i would imagine they'd get down to that eventually, likely, probably, but i don't really think about it), but i would really imagine them just unable to let go of one another for a strong week at least.

I agree with what you say on Lucifer being the jealous one though, he kept Sandalphon a secret from other people for a while and even during the garden-scene in 000, there is this bit where he tries to tempt Sandalphon to stay with him a little even though he wants Sandalphon to go back and live his life, and when Sandalphon questions him about how Lucifer wanted him to stay he smiles and says "the heart has its reasons" (which paralleled Belial's "love has its reasons" when he stayed in the pocket dimension with Lucilius). My point is that Lucifer has shown he's possessive of Sandalphon to an extend and he knows that he needs to let Sandalphon fly free, and he won't force anything on Sandalphon, but he's definitely the type who, deep down, even if he doesn't act on it, wants to keep Sandalphon just for himself, if only for a little bit.

and like, at least it's implied Lucifer is watching over Sandalphon in some degree (like it's not always nor super clear but he clearly knows some things thanks to his connection to Lyria at least), so i think while Lucifer is missing Sandalphon there is a degree in which he at least still can feel him, know about him ect...

while Sandalphon nowadays is yearning everyday for Lucifer, and while he often talks to Lucifer as if he could hear him, he never gets an answer and is always so alone in return, he can't know if his words are reaching him. So if he gets Lucifer back Sandalphon would be unable to let go while it's been so long now.

So they would both be messes and i think they would refuse to let go of each other for a while. Not even to get physically intimate, but at least emotionally so, being able to share everything that happened to them since they've been apart, if only so it can make up for lost time, while touching one another to make sure that it's not a dream, that it's real, yaknow?

anyway not to write a lucisan fanfic out of nowhere like that but basically i mean those two would need a bit before at least untangling from one another-

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 3 months

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Sandalphon would be such a great big brother to Yuni, I've been saying that literally since day one

HE WOULD BEEEEE

Like come on, this girl is born from the same wish Lucifer had to see the primals develop free will, a wish he started to have contemplating his relationship with Sandalphon to start with.

Sandalphon can see what Yuni represents and he'd take care of her right away.

and Sandalphon is always so sweet with the kids in the crew, this would be one more, but one he has personal stakes about.

pleasE... please..

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 3 months

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Pats Sandalphon

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 1 year

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Question: If you somehow did bang Lucilius, does it even count as banging him unless it’s oral? Because everything below the neck is stolen glory and might mean technically you’re banging Lucifer.

buries face in hands. You guys TRULY make me read words HUH.

Anyway the answer is that it would be necrophilia on Lucifer regardless of how you read it. I mean depends also on how Belial connected the nerves for Lucilius to feel the sensation of his body or not (and knowing Belial he'd probably WANt Lucilius to feel pleasure), so i guess we're in a ship of Theseus situation of "at which point does this part of him being replaced is still him and how much is the replaced parts".

So yeah technically unless Lucilius gives you head (literally) you do have to consider that there's at least a third, dead person in this relationship.

Thanks anon!

#also genuinely horrifying thing to read considering yesterday's hot convo was about Lucilius's strong feelings about human centipede #sobbing crying ect.#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #ichablogging wmtsb #anonymous

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icharchivist · 3 months

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Gotta love how Cygames slipped in a trans rights scene in the fate episodes of one of their most popular characters. True ally move.

RIGHT???? Most popular character that people are definitely going to spark + also a super meta unit that will definitely be high tier and required for meta + the 3rd skill is genuinely super good so you do have to go through the episode if only for meta reason (if you don't skip)

... and they use it for a Pro Trans conversation.

i'm so happy. Granblue gets it.

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #infullmoon #ichablogging gbf #ichablogging gbffe #ichablogging wmtsb

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icharchivist · 6 months

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Hello, I was reading one of your posts in your blog that spoke about Belial's backstory. I'm curious as to what it is that makes it 'tragic'. Could you please explain it to me? I'm trying to learn more about his character :)

Sure thing! it'd be my pleasure and i know my thoughts are a bit scattered about it so might as well serve as a post of its own!

When i refer to Belial as a tragic figure, i especially mean it in a literary sense: a character from a tragedy. What categorize characters from tragedies tend to be the inescapably from their terrible fate -- both because there was no other choice, and because all the choices they could have made led them here. The outcome would have been the same, with or without free will. There was no way out. there may have been a way out but the character wouldn't realistically take it. The character is set up to fail by the narrative before it even starts.

Belial's backstory itself is quite pitiful, in the primal sense of the term of, it invites pity. He only exists to be compared to Lucifer. He's the draft before the masterpiece and he knows that, Lucilius made sure he knew that. When it was only Lucifer and him, it might have been something that they could handle -- because Lucifer genuinely did care for him, and when they were only the two of them, it's likely Belial cared as well.

but the moment others angels entered the picture, the moment Belial was asked to see Lucifer on a hierarchy, the moment Lucifer became so busy he couldn't be here with Belial anymore, is the moment Belial had no other choice than to settle for the shadows. And he wanted Lucilius' approval so much he would do anything for it.

This motivation, the motivation of getting Lucilius' approval, ultimately brought him a lot of misery, only for it to never even work in the end. Lucilius saw him mostly as a tool to reach his end and didn't exactly care for him out of that. But for Lucilius' sake Belial was set up to betray everyone in the angels with the Fallen Angels project. Personally i don't even know if Belial was aware of what would become of the angels until it was too late -- his eagerness to help Sariel and his deep sorrow for what happened to him makes me think he genuinely thought the Fallen Angels were an alternative, not a doomed endeavor. But it still means he carried through it because it was Lucilius' wishes. and Lucilius' wishes he shall see through. Even once the cat was out of the bag, it was the path he had chosen, so there was no turning back from that, even if it means betraying everyone he dragged in this situation to start with.

And here comes the question of choice: Belial always had the choice. Technically.

Primal per nature, are slave to their purpose, to their impulse to fullfill this purpose. They also have this impulse to follow what their masters want of them. But there are exceptions. There are primals who can't find joy in their purpose (Sariel), who lose their purpose (Rosetta), who never had one to start with (Sandalphon), who grew disgusted with their purpose and tried to move on (Noa or Grimnir) or who grew naturally into their purpose until they had to move past their initial guidelines (Lucifer).

it looks like it's not giving them much choice -- but Lucilius valued free will. He only put the limiters on the primals on the later generation. I believe Lucilius saw himself as a rebel against God, and that, by creating his own creatures, by being a God to them, having those creatures rebel to him means his fight was worthwhile. That it is possible for creatures to rebel against God. That Lucilius' rebellion is righteous. That's why he died with a smile on his face when Lucifer finally killed him.

But then you have Belial. Belial is chaos, but he loves Lucilius more than anything in the world. He wants his attention more than anything, something he cannot get. The more he gives for Lucilius, the more he loses everything else he cared about until the only thing left is Lucilius. There's plenty of times in this journey where Belial realistically could have stopped. But every single time he dug his heels for Lucilius' sake, he chooses to continue down that path no matter how much it would hurt him. And it did hurt him!

When Lucilius dies, it is because Lucifer transcended his purpose. Evolution meant that he had to evolve from his master. He grew past his purpose, he let go of it. By showing free will, Lucifer destroyed what Belial always sacrificed everything about. So Belial convinced himself there was no free will for him in all of this. That he was slave to his purpose despite the fact he had choices, multiple times. He just refuses to acknowledge them.

Obviously we cannot discuss Belial's tragedy without addressing his fake suicide, which, despite the fact he was manipulating the crew, rings to me as the things Belial believes the most - because he was in Avatar mode and fully consumed by its powers, its anger, and the knowledge that even after everything he's done those past thousand years, Lucilius still didn't spare him a glance.

(What Makes the Sky Blue - part 3- 000 // Episode 7 - Part 1)

Personally i believe Belial's spite is real. That all those things he says he hates, he does actually hate. It tracks with how he treats Sariel, who genuinely believes in the burden of his purpose and how it ruined him deeply.

(this is also why i have the interpretation that Belial's feelings for Lucifer were more complicated than just hating him. I think he hated what Lucifer represented more than he hated Lucifer himself, and part of him expected that killing Lucifer will finally bring him peace: but it didn't fix anything, so now he's just as hollow as ever. (ref: Belial refering to how killing your doppleganger makes you feel hollow during his gbvs victory lines against himself))

but the thing is that Belial paints it as if everything was unavoidable. It's their fate as primals, you see? They can't move past it. But at the same time he wants to believe in a plan that would free them from it. ... but at the same time he knows he's full of shit. In this passage he talks about Lucifer, and to Sandalphon and Rosetta, primals who moved past their purposes long ago. He tries to attack them on that because he knows they have complicated feelings about their purpose - but the reality is that they seized their free will when Belial refused to.

Belial put himself into a tragic path on his own volition. it's his choice. He was given plenty of opportunities to back down, to evolve on his own right, but he didn't.

Because he desperately wanted the love of someone who was never in a position to give him that love to start with.

And it brings him a lot of misery. Loving Lucilius is both the best and worst thing that ever happened to him. He just wants this love so bad, and he's not getting it. This love is destroying him because its unrequired, but he cannot move on from it. Morning Light Hymnus is good to analyse on that level, but i'll also just bring up his Avatar Profile in GBVS as a further indication of it:

And i'll bring it a step further: by committing to this devotion thinking it would give him Lucilius' love, it only turned Lucilius off from him even more. Because like i said, Lucilius values Free Will. Lucilius would more likely have preferred Belial to rebel against him than being an obedient lap dog.

But Belial wanted to be special so much to him that he just made himself Lucilius' tool. And once Lucifer rebelled, Belial was in this situation where he couldn't back down. Else he'd be exactly like the person who took everything away from him. He couldn't be like Lucifer. So he doubled down and became a pariah. He already had sacrificed everything else he already had for Lucilius anyway, so what's more?

(and once again with the reading of "he didn't fully hate Lucifer", the idea of killing Lucifer becomes about getting rid of that loose end. Of the last thing that reminds him that he could move on. That he could have chosen differently. But he didn't. He carried this corpse of an idea as a reminder that there's no turning back).

And another interesting tragic angle is the fact he is a foil to Sandalphon. Sandalphon is sort of the protagonist of those events, and just like Belial, he knows about devotion to someone he believes doesn't actually need him. but the difference is how Sandalphon rebelled only to learn that the person he was devoted to loved him, while Belial was loyal but the person he was devoted to never loved him. the tragedy is found in the parallelism. Where Sandalphon wins, Belial loses, and the other way around is true as well. So as long as you have Sandalphon to compare him to, Belial stands out as a tragic figure because you see what he would have wanted and how it went wrong - while also seeing the ways Belial would sabotage people who are in his situation just as much because he's so greedy and selfish on that regard.

also a good addition about the tragedy of immortality and the way it affects Belial in particuliar that i forgot to mention here.

Like i cannot stress it enough:

Belial was dealt bad cards from the start. He's loving and affectionate and so, so starved for love, he only wanted Lucilius' love more than anything. There is pity to be had, outside of his control, about how Lucilius' treated him, about how Lucifer was unable to see the pressure he put on Belial when Belial developped his inferiority complex, about how the others archangels saw his distance and left him there in his own loneliness. I'd personally even add that the moment Lucilius asked Belial to take care of the Fallen Angels, he isolated Belial so much so that there was no way for him to look outside of this bubble, blinded by being suddenly of use for Lucilius, even if it meant burning everyone else around him.

BUT those were ALL Belial's choices that led to his downfall. Belial constantly picked the worst alternative for him no matter what. Lucilius isn't responsible for this, Lucifer isn't responsible for this. Belial was dealt a bad hand but he played his cards the way he wanted to, and even worsened his case. He couldn't see a better way out that becoming the worst of the worst. Being perfect was already taken after all.

And to me this is the tragedy of Belial: He always had a choice. He always chose wrong because he fooled himself into thinking he didn't have any. And it's likely he didn't even believe himself when he was thinking that but just gave himself an excuse to continue on his bad habits, because this is all he knew about being.

And still now after being made clear by Lucilius that he won't be cared about still, Belial dedicates himself further to Lucilius. Still now Belial digs his heels and make the wrong choices.

because no one does evil like he does, baby.

Hope this clears it up!

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb #tldr it's all about choices and choosing wrong and deluding yourself into thinking you had none to start with

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icharchivist · 1 year

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It's equally heartbreaking and heartwarming that assuming Lucifer is able to watch over Sandalphon, you know he is happy for him with every fiber of his being. Their roles are reversed and they're separate, but content because they both know how much they mean to each other. I'm sure that it gives Sandy a lot of comfort to know that Lucifer is watching over him and loves him, every minute of every day, so he can focus on living life to the fullest for the both of them without having to worry.

RIGHT. RIGHT.....

When they used to be apart, thousand years ago, Lucifer didn't even know how he felt for Sandalphon and everytime, Sandalphon just saw himself as useless to Lucifer and spent his days in doubts and in fear of never being enough... In the past, there was this major disconnect that neither was able to address at the time.

Now they're apart again... but at least they made clear that they care so deeply for one another and that nothing, not even death, would be able to change that.

Like... that now they parted on this:

that at least they know. that even apart, they will forever be cheering for one another, that they'll be happy for one another....

Like man. Sandalphon genuinely used to think he was useless to Lucifer and now he at least knows, firmly, that the one thing Lucifer wanted him to know no matter what, is that no matter the crimes, no matter what anyone would think about Sandalphon, he's always going to be Lucifer's one and only solace. The one thing that always made him happy, and that always will....

So now at least Sandalphon cannot doubt that fact. He knows Lucifer loves him. Hell in that last meeting, the whole "you wanted me to return to my friends, but still proposed me a cup of coffee to stay longer." "The heart is full of contradiction", the fact Sandalphon gets so soft because he understands that it's because Lucifer loves him enough to want him by his side and also to let him go...... god those two.

Also reading this ask reminded me of the end of the Maydays.

Like... when Sandalphon is alone he thinks of Lucifer, he talks to him even though Lucifer is technically not here to hear it...

Like. Like....... god.

So yeah everything you say in your ask and i can't really add much more to it i'm just really soft about those two.

Even if he's lonely now, i'm sure Lucifer is happy. And even if Sandalphon misses Lucifer, at least he knows Lucifer is always having him in his heart, and so does he, and that's what matters.

those two......;

#wow that's. wow i'm actually having a lucisan moment i'm sorry #didn't expect THEM to hit me in the emotions all day but!#man.#also i went to the journal to fetch both those screenshots so it meant i cried replaying those scenes #but also unfortunately i didn't realize while i was journal diving #that i left Belial on my homescreen....#so Parade's lust was blasting everytime i was on the journal menu this is a nightmare #he's mocking me.#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #ichablogging wmtsb

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