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wineanddinosaur · 3 years

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EOD Drinks With Julia Prestia, Co-Owner of Venturini Baldini

In this episode of “End Of Day Drinks,” VinePair’s editorial team is joined by Julia Prestia, the co-owner of Venturini Baldini. The team chats with Prestia about all things Lambrusco. Lambrusco has seen a recent rise in the American market. However, Prestia wants to usher in a new generation of wine lovers to the authenticity of the variety. Though Lambrusco got a bad rep in the ‘80s, oenophiles are rediscovering the wines of Emilia-Romagna.

The Venturini Baldini estate takes pride in producing its wines using organic agriculture since 1976 — a trend that has since caught on. Now, Prestia aims to be at the forefront of the rebirth of Lambrusco.

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Keith Beavers: Hello and welcome to VinePair’s “End of Day Drinks” podcast. My name is Keith Beavers. I am the tasting director of VinePair, as well as the host of VinePair’s “Wine 101” podcast. Today I am excited (like, excited) to welcome Julia Prestia. She is a co-owner of Venturini Baldini, which is an historic producer of organic Lambrusco. Yeah, Lambrusco and sparkling rosé wines in Emilia-Romagna. An amazing place. Welcome, Julia.

Julia Prestia: My pleasure. Thank you.

K: I am joined by a bunch of people. We have Katie Brown, Emma Cranston, Tim McKirdy, and Cat Wolinski, and this is all part of our editorial team here at VinePair. I’m very excited about this, but you were nice enough to send us some bottles of Lambrusco. I have all three of them open, and I’ll be drinking them, because this is very exciting. I want to get this conversation started about Lambrusco, about the idea of Lambrusco, and how we as American culture have experienced Lambrusco. In the ’70s and the ’80s, we had certain brands that came over here that had a certain texture and flavor to them. They were sweet, they were bubbly. We got into it, and it was cool. That’s what we thought was Lambrusco. Now, we’re starting to see more Lambrusco coming onto the market. I think that it’s very, very exciting. It’s one of my favorite Italian wines. I love it so much, and I love what you’re doing with it. You might be part of this new movement of Lambrusco and showing what it actually is. Can you talk a little about that?

J: It’s really an exciting time. I feel Lambrusco is being revived as what you described as a new generation of Lambrusco. What is so exciting about it for us is, we’re going back to the old traditional way of making them because it wasn’t supposed to be the sweet drink that you had in the ‘70s and ‘80s. In terms of quantities, it is one of the most exported wines from Italy. It’s a broadly distributed wine. However, especially in the ‘70s and ‘80s, a lot of people associated it with a completely different type of wine than it historically was and should be. The traditional type of Lambrusco is a dry, premium type of Lambrusco. It’s a serious wine, but it’s still the cheerful, happy wine that it should be. It fits really nicely in the mood of the moment this way so it’s a very exciting time for us.

K: I love it. I love the dryness. I remember when I first tried a real Lambrusco, I was like, “Oh, so this is what it’s like.”

Katie Brown: I’m curious, because you mentioned the Lambrusco of the ’80s. What are some of the biggest misconceptions you think that consumers have right now about Lambrusco?

J: Well, I think one of the biggest misconceptions is still that all Lambrusco is sweet. Arguably, I understand where that’s coming from because a lot of the wines that came especially to the U.S., but also to other countries at that time, were really, really sweet. They’re still around and there are producers who produce that very sweet Lambrusco, but there’s more of a trend to go back to the dry version like we historically made it. I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions is that people need to see that it’s not supposed to be sweet. It’s still the happy wine, as I call it, because it’s a very social wine. It’s a very drinkable wine, but without being sweet. Then, I think the other thing that people don’t necessarily see is how versatile it is and how it’s really a spectrum of tastes, colors, and grapes, for that matter. There’s such diversity in it.

K: I love that. It’s interesting, the thing about Lambrusco is this idea of fun and enjoyment of it. What’s awesome about Lambrusco is it is bubbly. It has effervescence and this idea of fun, but it is your wine in your region. It just so happens that it’s fun, it’s seriously made, but also fun to enjoy, if you will.

J: Yes, I agree.

K: This is another thing about Emilia-Romagna that people may not know, but this is the place where we get balsamic vinegar. We get the Parmigiano Reggiano. I’m curious, it said that the Lambrusco in this region was initially meant for digestion because of its dry, bubbly nature, it helps with the food. Is that correct?

J: Well, I personally think it’s the right wine for the food that we’re producing in our region. There’s definitely a fit between the food and the wine. It’s also the acidity that comes with it. If you look at some of the grapes, the Sorbara grape, for example, has a really beautiful acidity to it. That really helps with digesting and setting off the fatty food. Yes, it is predominantly heavy food from our wheat, but it is very delicious. The funny thing is people know Parmigiano Reggiano, the balsamic vinegar, the prosciutto, also Ferrari, Maserati. It’s all from the same region, and it’s amazing when you put it all together and you say that this is actually all coming from one region, and it’s Emilia-Romagna.

Emma Cranston: Julia, I actually wanted to circle back because you just mentioned vinegar. I was super curious about the vinegar on your property. Could you tell us a little about what the vinegar tasting tours look like and your ancient vinegar cellar?

J: To describe our property, we are an atypical estate because it looks more like Tuscany or Piemonte. It has a very Tuscan feel with the cypress trees and the gravel roads going all the way up into our hills. We’re in the hills between Parma and Reggio Emilia alongside the Villa Emilia that cuts across Emilia-Romagna. On the property, you have vineyards, trees, forests, lakes, and just a lot of green. We also have an acetaia. Acetaia is a vinegar cellar. It’s actually under the roof, so it’s more like an attic in reality. It’s one of the oldest, in general, and it’s the oldest in Reggio Emilia, from the 17th century, so it’s a really magical place. It’s almost like a museum because it’s completely intact. Luckily, it has never suffered any earthquakes or anything like that, so it’s a very unique place. The family that used to live on the property made personal vinegar where you will see a lot of barrels making that vinegar. There’s definitely a lot of vinegar being produced, and we’re continuing this tradition. We were inviting people to see the acetaia. They can taste the balsamic vinegar that we produce. We produce the traditional balsamic vinegar and then balsamic condiments. It’s a wide spectrum of things that people can taste. With the wines, they get a tour of the vineyards, learn about the history of the estate and the traditions of how to make balsamic vinegar. People can see, smell, and taste everything. It’s a really beautiful, magical place.

K: Oh, that sounds amazing. One thing about this from the production side, you’re really big about organic agriculture. I’m curious about what that’s like in your area. Are you spearheading this, or is this something that’s become a standard practice or gaining in popularity in your area?

J: It’s definitely gaining in popularity. I think all across Italy you see a movement both from the consumer side, but obviously a lot from the producer side. I’m very happy about that personally. As you know, it’s my lifestyle. It’s a very rewarding thing to see that people are trying to convert to organic practices. It’s difficult, it’s a process, so it takes time. We are lucky because when the winery started operating, they started from the beginning as an organic winery. The certification that we have goes back to the ’80s. It’s a very unusual thing because in the early, mid-’80s, no one was thinking about organic farming in Italy, let alone the certification. That helps a lot because it’s been established. We don’t have to think about it every day, of course, but we do take it a bit for granted. Perhaps that’s the right way to say it, but it’s a very, very important part of our lifestyle. You need to cut me off if I talk about this too long, because I could get very passionate about it. Yet, when you live in the vineyards and you live so close to nature, you see it even more. You see how important it becomes to be able to respond to nature. We have the most natural ecosystem that we can provide. It’s not perfect, but it’s as close to perfect as we can make it. It definitely helps, especially with the current climate situations that we see becoming increasingly extreme in the last years.

Cat Wolinski: Hi, Julia, this is Cat. I’m curious about the organic certification there. Is it something that you feel consumers are looking for in the region, in Italy, or even in Europe? It’s very trendy here now, organic, biodynamic, and natural wine. Not that these are all the same thing, but is it something that you did to respond to a market need, or were you doing this from the beginning?

J: We were doing it from the beginning. When my husband and I bought the estate in 2015, we were looking for an organic estate. My husband also produces one in Sicily that is also an organic winery. It was a very important part of our list of things that we wanted to see. The fact that Venturini Baldini started out as an organic estate, as I said, definitely helps, because it becomes part of you. I completely believe in it, and it’s beautiful for me to see also that there were recent studies that show people perceive the wines to be better-tasting wines. For me, it’s a really big part of how we operate, and I firmly believe that it’s a healthier way of living. In terms of consumers, the states are often leading in a lot of development. You guys always seem to be a step ahead in most things. In Europe, depending a bit on the country, it’s definitely already a big part, and it’s only increasing. With every new generation, I think it’s becoming more important that we see a lot of people specifically looking for organic ones.

Tim McKirdy: Hi, this is Tim here. Just wanted to piggyback off that point you’re talking about there. I know that you produce a wonderful sparkling rosé, which most folks might not associate with Lambrusco. I was wondering if you can chat about how that’s come about and sparkling rosé in Italy in general. I believe it’s going to be a pretty big year. I think U.S. consumers are set to see a lot of that as well. I was wondering if you can tell us how you stand out in that market because I think that’s going to be huge this year here for us drinkers.

J: Yes, and it’s a really good question because we come from Lambrusco land. Our wines are Lambrusco, the indigenous grapes from our area. It’s a very traditional wine in Emilia. However, what we really wanted to achieve is also to bring a new generation to Lambrusco. A generation that we talked about before had a bit of a prejudice against Lambrusco. There is still a long way to go, because people sometimes associate completely different things with Lambrusco. In the end, they have a revelation when they taste it, and the Cadelvento we were talking about earlier really helped to bring a whole new group of people to taste and discover Lambrusco, and then really start discovering Lambrusco. It’s opening the door. It is still a very completely authentic Lambrusco. It’s a DOP, so it was almost an add-on that we discovered a little bit later. It was not intentionally the idea from the beginning, but it was a big part of the success of the Cadelvento. It also spoke to people who weren’t necessarily looking for Lambrusco, and then they discovered the whole world of Lambrusco behind it. Now, rosé has been having a huge success in the past years. The spectrum of Lambrusco with its various shades of red, pink, rosé, the various grapes that you can use, especially Sorbara, which is a very light grape. We have a very short skin contact in this wine, which goes a lot in the rosé direction, so yes, I think this is sparkling rosé’s year for sure.

T: I think it’s great, as you say, that name that’s very recognizable to consumers, the Lambrusco. It is also something new for people to discover and also draw them into the region.

J: Yeah, I think it is important and it’s a revival. I call it the rinascita, or the rebirth of Lambrusco. It’s important to bring that new generation of Lambrusco to people and introduce them to what we have and what we believe in. That has definitely allowed us to talk to people who haven’t discovered them yet.

Katie: For people that are new to the Lambrusco category, what type of glassware would you suggest drinking your wines out of? I think a lot of us are used to drinking sparkling wine out of a flute glass. Is that the glassware you would suggest, or would you prefer it out of a coupe glass or a regular wine glass?

J: I tend to use either a regular wine glass or the coupe, for example, which is perfect for the Cadelvento. It fits the mood as well, so either the regular wine glass or just a very open wide sparkling wine glass. I wouldn’t go for the narrow flute.

Katie: Right. And can you explain why?

J: I think it’s a personal preference. I think it’s the way the bubbles work. It’s slightly effervescent wine. I think even the regular wine glass just fits much better. It can open up the taste in a much better way.

Katie: That makes sense.

K: Well, I wanted to talk about this because of the fact that sparkling rosés are very popular, and I think that Lambrusco is set to be very popular. Actually, I was in the D.C. market for a minute a couple of years ago, and there was a wine bar restaurant in D.C. that actually had Lambrusco Week every year. They made sure to expose people to what Lambrusco actually is. I don’t know of another wine on the planet that’s popular, sparkling, and red. I think it’s very unique, and we are poised to really get into this idea of Lambrusco. You had mentioned before, Sorbara, and Salamino. Lambrusco the grape is not just one grape. It’s multiple varieties of one style of one family. Each one has a different uniqueness to it. I just want to add that there’s something about this I think is important because as we start to get into Lambrusco on the American market, to give a sense of why it’s dry. For example, there’s one that has more of a violet aroma, one that has more of a dry, or more of a dark. I wonder if you could give us a sense of what these grapes are doing and how we’re enjoying them in these wines.

J: This is exactly right. It’s a family of grapes. Lambrusco comes in many different types of grapes. We have about eight or nine, I think, on the estate and they have very different personalities. They’re very different grapes. For example, the Sorbara that you mentioned has a very strong acidity, beautiful acidity. Often, it comes as a 100 percent Sorbara, which you can imagine the very strong acidity in the wine. We decided to blend Sorbara with Grasparossa, which is another grape that is much more mellow and rounded.

K: That’s another Lambrusco grape, correct?

J: Yes, these are all Lambrusco grapes. Sorbara and Grasparossa are the more frequent ones. Salamino is a very common one. Salamino makes our Montelocco, for example, so it’s 100 percent Salamino. Then, we have Maestri, Marani, and Monstericco, so there are lots of different grapes. The beauty of Lambrusco is that you can make it so versatile and so different. There is not one Lambrusco that is the whole spectrum.

K: And you can make it your own. You have these varieties you work with and blend to make your own statement on your Lambrusco.

J: Absolutely. Some grapes are dominant in some areas of our region. There is a difference perhaps in terms of geography but yes, we are lucky that we have quite a large variety on the estate. You blend, and so the Marquis Manodori, for example, is a blend of four different types of Lambrusco grapes. We use a lot of the common ones such as Salamino, Grasparossa, and Maestri, perhaps. It’s very exciting. For example, we made a still red wine out of a grape that was always used to blend Lambrusco, and it was never used for still wine. That is the exciting part of winemaking. You can experiment.

K: Actually, I’m drinking the Marquis Manodori right now. This is the thing about sparkling wine made from red wine grapes. Am I experiencing tannin? For the listeners out there, tannin is the drying sensation in your mouth when you drink red wine, and this is a sparkling, chilled red wine made from red grapes. Do you let that weave in, or how do you mess with that?

J: You’re right, you are experiencing that. Maestri and Marani contribute a lot to that type of experience. I don’t know if that’s what you were aiming to ask, but the way you make it is in the steel tank. You have different ways of making Lambrusco. You can make it in a traditional way, like Champagne, or you can make it in the méthode de Charmat, which means you do a second fermentation in the steel tank, or you do it in the ancestral way where it’s fermented in the bottle. There are very different ways of making Lambrusco.

K: I just find it fascinating that I’m drinking it right now. I’m drinking this awesome red wine that’s bubbly and fruity. The wine is alive, and it has a dryness to it that makes it tasty. It is so refreshing and there’s tannin. It’s the coolest thing. I could sit here, eat, and drink this by myself with this glass, or I could have some cheese with this. It has such versatility to it. I think that’s what’s so exciting about this wine because as we get more excited about Lambrusco on our market, that’s what is going to really kick it off. It’s this feeling of “Oh my gosh, there’s depth here?”

T: I agree with you there. You said something earlier, too, which is this idea of Lambrusco being the only region and wine in the world that is popular, sparkling, and red. Hearing about and tasting the tannins in a sparkling wine, I think it really takes us somewhere else. It’s something new for us to enjoy. Sparkling wine, oftentimes I find it goes down too easy. Having something that is sparkling in the glass, but maybe a bit more contemplative, I think would be great. I can really see, as Keith says, people discovering that and loving it.

K: This is going to be a wild question, but if you’re in New York or if you’re in the United States and you have your Lambrusco and you’re not in Modena, what would you eat with Lambrusco?

J: Spare ribs, or a good steak.

K: Steak and a Lambrusco? That makes complete sense. Isn’t that weird? You just said steak and Lambrusco, people in America would say that’s awesome. We were just talking about tannin, that structure of the wine. For American ears to hear Lambrusco and steak is kind of crazy, but man, that would absolutely work.

J: When we spoke about the food from Emilia-Romagna, there’s a lot of meat in our food. It’s funny, actually, because you see similar traditions in many countries. It’s not just the pasta. It’s not just the pizza, because that’s often what people associate with Lambrusco. It’s a lot of meat. As I said, it’s the barbecue, the steak, or boiled meat. Also, I find spicy cuisines, Asian cuisines to have amazing pairings. It wouldn’t be the first idea you had, but it really works. Any time you have fatty food, like salmon, for example, it really goes well with Lambrusco. I wouldn’t have thought about it at first, but it makes sense.

K: That is so cool. Here we are now, we’re basically just showing the diversity of this wine, but having Lambrusco in America is awesome. I can’t wait for us to get more and more into it. I think it’s something that we really should be getting into. However, as this health crisis goes away and people can start traveling again, people can get on planes to go over and see you and experience it over there. Emilia-Romagna is very welcoming to tourists, right?

J: It is. It’s never been an overly touristy area, but Emilia-Romagna is a new discovery. I think it’s the food, it’s the Motor Valley. Bologna has been having a huge success in the last few years. People are discovering all the cities around us, and we are really at the heart of it, which is wonderful, because everything is in a short distance from our place. It’s really an exciting region to discover, and it’s right in the middle of Italy.

K: Exactly, it literally is the center. How can people find you? You’re on Instagram and people can go on the website and they can see potential tours and stuff like that, right?

J: Yes, we are on Instagram, @venturinibaldini. Our winery has its own very special Instagram. It’s @roncolo1888, which is the date of when the villa was built. If you start with Venturini Baldini, you’ll find everything. If people want to contact us, we are here, we are opening now in April, even though it’s still a slow season with Europe not clearing travel yet, but we are looking forward to an exciting year.

K: So go to Emilia-Romagna, go to Roncolo 1888, have a tour of balsamic vinegar, and drink the amazing bubbly red wine. That sounds basically awesome. Start here in the United States, guys, then and go over there. Because the Lambrusco here, it needs to be a thing. It’s awesome.

T: Watch some Fellini before you go out there, he’s famously from Emilia-Romagna. A nice way to prepare.

K: All right, I like that. Queued up in the queue. I don’t know what I’m talking about. Thank you so much, Julia, for joining us today. I know you’re actually in Italy, so thank you so much for taking the time.

J: Thank you.

K: I look forward to the season coming up with Lambrusco. I am very excited for it to be on our market, enjoying it, and actually saying, “OK, this is actually Lambrusco.”

J: Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure.

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of “EOD Drinks.” If you’ve enjoyed this program, please leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps other people discover the show. And tell your friends. We want as many people as possible listening to this amazing program.

And now for the credits. “End of Day Drinks” is recorded live in New York City at VinePair’s headquarters. And it is produced, edited, and engineered by VinePair tastings director, yes, he wears a lot of hats, Keith Beavers. I also want to give a special thanks to VinePair’s co-founder, Josh Malin, to the executive editor Joanna Sciarrino, to our senior editor, Cat Wolinski, senior staff writer Tim McKirdy, and our associate editor Katie Brown. And a special shout-out to Danielle Grinberg, VinePair’s art director who designed the sick logo for this program. The music for “End of Day Drinks” was produced, written, and recorded by Darby Cici. I’m VinePair co-founder Adam Teeter, and we’ll see you next week. Thanks a lot.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

The article EOD Drinks With Julia Prestia, Co-Owner of Venturini Baldini appeared first on VinePair.

source https://vinepair.com/articles/eod-drinks-venturini-baldini-lambrusco/

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johnboothus · 3 years

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EOD Drinks With Julia Prestia Co-Owner of Venturini Baldini

Listen online

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

Or Check out the conversation here

Julia Prestia: My pleasure. Thank you.

K: I love it. I love the dryness. I remember when I first tried a real Lambrusco, I was like, “Oh, so this is what it’s like.”

Katie Brown: I’m curious, because you mentioned the Lambrusco of the ’80s. What are some of the biggest misconceptions you think that consumers have right now about Lambrusco?

J: Yes, I agree.

T: I think it’s great, as you say, that name that’s very recognizable to consumers, the Lambrusco. It is also something new for people to discover and also draw them into the region.

Katie: Right. And can you explain why?

Katie: That makes sense.

K: That’s another Lambrusco grape, correct?

K: And you can make it your own. You have these varieties you work with and blend to make your own statement on your Lambrusco.

K: This is going to be a wild question, but if you’re in New York or if you’re in the United States and you have your Lambrusco and you’re not in Modena, what would you eat with Lambrusco?

J: Spare ribs, or a good steak.

K: Exactly, it literally is the center. How can people find you? You’re on Instagram and people can go on the website and they can see potential tours and stuff like that, right?

T: Watch some Fellini before you go out there, he’s famously from Emilia-Romagna. A nice way to prepare.

J: Thank you.

K: I look forward to the season coming up with Lambrusco. I am very excited for it to be on our market, enjoying it, and actually saying, “OK, this is actually Lambrusco.”

J: Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

The article EOD Drinks With Julia Prestia, Co-Owner of Venturini Baldini appeared first on VinePair.

Via https://vinepair.com/articles/eod-drinks-venturini-baldini-lambrusco/

source https://vinology1.weebly.com/blog/eod-drinks-with-julia-prestia-co-owner-of-venturini-baldini

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arplis · 4 years

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Arplis - News: Dangers of Stevia, Supplements, Soil Mineral Depletion | LIVE CALL: THRR015

Make your health an act of rebellion and join the community here. Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Perfect Keto makes eating keto easier. Perfect Keto provides clean low-carb bars, nut butters, and supplements, and the best keto recipes and info so you can keto with confidence. Go to http://perfectketo.com/rebellion10 and use code REBELLION10 for $10 off orders of $40 or more. Download a copy of the transcript here (PDF) Submit your questions for the podcast here Show Notes: News topic du jour: Silicon Ranch partners with organic livestock farm in Georgia for solar sheep grazing 1. Supplementing for soil depletion of minerals [11:35] Ben 2. Supplements Affecting Exercise Adaptation [17:50] Isaac 3. Ketosis [28:55] Ben 4. Behavior Change [48:39] Zack 5. Dangers of Stevia [54:20] from Nate Hi Robb and Nicki, Huge fan of the show and format. Do you see any dangers in consuming pure stevia? Powder or liquid. Other than the obvious danger of it potentially making you crave more sweeter foods. Have you read about any credible downsides to it that would concern you? I love the stuff, it helps me on my keto diet and I just want to make sure it’s cool to keep consuming in moderation (quarter to half tsp maybe a day). Thanks again for being an unbiased source of truth in this crazy landscape. Nate Transcript: Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help 1 million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. Nicki: You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness changes. Warning Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasion expletive. If foul language is not your thing. If it gets your britches in a bunch, well there’s always Disney+. Robb: What’s up wife? Nicki: It’s time for another episode. Robb: It’s. Nicki: It’s time- Robb: Time. Nicki: For another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Welcome everyone to our crazy little moment in time here. It is a nice day here in New Braunfels, Texas though. Robb: It is pretty nice. Sun is coming out. It’s going to be nice and warm, so yeah. Nicki: We had a lot of rain last night and it’s looking like the fog is burning off and it’s a good day. Robb: Mats are being delivered to Straight Blast Gym Texas today, which this podcast will air a bit after this, but very excited for jiu-jitsu to get going. Nicki: Absolutely. What do you have for us today with your news topic? Robb: Oh, the news topic. The title is Silicon Ranch partners with organic livestock farm in Georgia for solar sheep grazing. So today’s topic is a bit of a sustainability regenerative ag story, but it’s pretty cool. White Oak Pastures pastures has partnered with this outfit Silicon Ranch, which is basically one of these big solar farm outfits and what’s emerging out of this story is the potential upsides of solar energy can be welded to another upside of solar energy, which is grazing animals. Robb: People kind of forget the whole solar powered feature of pastures and grazing animals and whatnot. But White Oak Pastures has this research that demonstrates that their meat production is a net carbon sink. It has all kinds of beneficial effects on local ecology birds that interestingly the Audubon Society, this is some of this stuff that’s really important and I’m looking forward to Sacred Cow getting out there both in the film and the book form, but people assume that ranching in animal husbandry is necessarily injurious to the environment. Robb: But the Audubon Society has been one of the folks that has really embraced the Allan Savory kind of flavor of regenerative ag. So anyway, within this- Nicki: Because of the impact on the birds. Robb: Because of the beneficial impact on the birds. People who look at birds and want to protect birds, they’re finding that the habitat is being restored and that animals that were endangered or had not been seen in particular areas for 15 or 20 years are now back in large numbers. Robb: So this is some of the really important stuff to get out there and to talk about and to have discussions around because there’s just a monotone that animals are bad, animal husbandry is bad and that may not be the case. It may in fact be a story of this is one of the only legitimate solutions that we have. And what’s interesting is they’re predicting millions and millions of acres globally that will be under use with these solar farms, which is great. Robb: It has some challenges in and of itself. Solar panels actually have a limited life cycle and the recycling of that stuff is pretty toxic and difficult. So I’m optimistic about solar energy, but it is by no means a free lunch in that story. But what’s interesting is mixed into that whole process is the opportunity to have vast numbers of grazing animals that maintain those areas and maintain the normal ecology and produce food. Robb: And so this is something that when people kind of hand wringing about, “Oh, how do we feed the world going forward?” There are enormous tracks of land that are amenable to nothing but the raising of animals on grass. So this is a great article and it points out kind of an intersection of technology that is arguably 10,000 years old with technology that is 50 years old, photovoltaics and then holistically managed grass eating animals. So cool article, we’ve got the link for you in the show notes. Please read that. Please share it with people. Nicki: And we actually interviewed Will Harris of White Oak Pastures as a live interview inside The Healthy Rebellion community and it was amazing and we will be excited to share that interview with y’all here in another month or so, but just can’t say enough about what he is doing for not only his local economy, but the land and the animals and you just get this amazing, I don’t know, richness and just goodness listening to him speak and what he’s done over his lifetime with his animal. Robb: And just a real quick, maybe a highlight on that Will was a very successful conventional meat producer and he said that he was one of the best at it, which interestingly he said was likely why his farmland ended up cratering perhaps the earliest because he had figured out such an extractive process that the grasses were failing, the soil was failing and it wasn’t good for him, wasn’t good for the animals, wasn’t good for the local environment. Robb: And Will’s a good old boy from the South and likes to make money and all the rest of that. But at the same time he started seeing not only an economic kind of brick wall facing him, but also just some stuff that it is kind of moral core he couldn’t really deal with. And what’s interesting is it was a slow iterative process, but these holistic management practices are what he ended up adopting. And it’s been both economically successful for him, but then also environmentally it’s a major, major win. Robb: So these are the stories that we’ve got to both critically assess like are they legit? Is what is being claimed here true? Let’s be honest about that. But if it is, then we need to be singing this stuff from the rooftops. It can’t just be game changers and pea protein all the live long day. Nicki: Awesome. Already it’s time for our Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt review winner. This one is from, I don’t know if it’s even pronounceable, G-O-U-K-U-G-T, goukugt. Robb: Goukugt. Nicki: Thank you for all your positive influence. Thank you Robb and Nicki, I’ve been a listener since 2012 and I found paleo to help cure my arthritis. I was 28 and in grad school, which is too young for a chronic illness. I found that the trigger was wheat and I’ve been arthritis free since then. I’ve always been inspired by your work and my research has steered towards using diet as a therapeutic tool. Nicki: I study polycystic kidney disease and I’ve published two papers this past year on the impact that ketosis and oxalates have on disease progression. I wouldn’t have been able to do this without first healing myself so that I could still hold a pipette. Keep doing the great work you do and inspire more out there like myself, Dr. Jacob T. Awesome Dr Jacob T. thank you. Nicki: Please send us an email to [email protected] with your tee shirt size and your mailing address and we will send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt. Robb: Awesome. Nicki: All right. This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Perfect Keto makes eating keto easier. Perfect Keto provides clean, low-carb bars, nut butters and supplements and the best keto recipes and information so that you can keto with confidence. And Robb, we just got a box of their brand new keto birthday cake bar, which is quite good. I normally am not a birthday cake flavor kind of girl. Robb: Just like you’re not a cheese girl. Nicki: I’m not a cheese girl either, but I really liked it. Robb: You liked it, Sagan liked it. The mouth feel was good. And what’s interesting about this stuff too is the girls generally like these things, but they’ll do a half of one or one and then they’re done. So it’s not like that- Nicki: They want to go back to that. Robb: Cocaine thing where they’re going to want to like smash the whole box, which I think is of telling. Nicki: So if you haven’t checked out their lineup of keto snacks and bars, go to perfectketo.com/rebellion10 and use code REBELLION10 for $10 off orders of $40 or more. And Robb this here is a live call episode. Robb: Well, right here, Nicki, we have a live espisode. Nicki: We have a live call, but this might be our last live call, at least for a wee bit. Robb: It’s super fun to be able to ask people additional questions, but the technical challenges of pulling this off were kind of crazy. Nicki: It was a cool experiment and I think we’ve really enjoyed it, but here’s the challenge that we face when we first go live. And we were using a thing that we can see the people in queue when we first go live, we see there’s like five or six callers there, but we don’t really have a way to communicate with people to tell them where they’re at in line. Nicki: And so then we’ll take the first person’s question and then by the time we’re done with the first person question, the other people have hung up because they’re like, they have no idea how long they’re going to have to wait. So they’re like, “Oh, screw this. I don’t want to sit here for 30 minutes or an hour.” So then we answer one question and then we’re sitting and we have no callers on the line. Nicki: And so then we’re waiting and waiting and maybe we get another one. And so it’s been… We’ve blocked them. When we did them, we did an hour and a half slot and it was kind of challenging to get our five callers for the show during that hour and a half block because of the way what I just described with- Robb: We might have 20 people call in but we’re only able to grab- Nicki: But then because of how- Robb: A few of them. Nicki: So did a little reflection and I think we’re going to hold off on that until we can come up with a little bit of a better- Robb: We need a little better technology. Nicki: System. Robb: We need a little better system. It’d be fun to do something like this in the future. In The Healthy Rebellion, we are doing some text chats in there which live text chats- Nicki: Which have been really fun. Robb: Which had been really fun. So we’re going to start putting more emphasis on that because that’s a great way to interact with people, get some live back and forth, ask those lead on questions. But it’s much more technologically doable for us at this point. Nicki: Right. So I guess- Robb: So for now, this is the last live call. Nicki: Yep. Until we figure out a way to solve for this, then we’ll be doing our regular Q and A. So you guys can always submit your questions via the website, robbwolf.com and then let’s jump into our callers. Nicki: Hello. Welcome to The Healthy Rebellion Radio caller from seven eight five tell us your name, where you’re calling from in your question please. Ben: Hello, Robb and Nicki. This is Ben from Ruleville. Nicki: Hey Ben, thanks for your patience. Ben: Oh, no problem. I have kind of a two part question, a small question then maybe a bigger concept related to it. I wanted to know if you or Robb had any insight on supplementing with fulvic acid or sometimes I think Ayuverdic realm is called shilajit, but it’s like that black tar substance. But in a broader sense, the reason I ask that is because I have read some stuff on it and started messing around with it myself because what I’ve read it’s there to fill any gaps that were missing from the farming or the current state of agriculture, depleting the minerals from the soil. Ben: So we used to get a lot of trace minerals from ground root vegetables and things like that, but now we’re missing that either through agricultural depletion or then the washing and transport of these vegetables or whatever. So I just wanted to hear you guys’ take on any of that. If it’s a valuable thing to supplement with or it’s even an issue we should worry about. Robb: Oh man. So I’m not familiar with that term. There was a substance that Dr. Fred Hatfield ages ago mentioned it sounds like this, and it was called Mumi, M-U-M-I. And it was kind of this tare substance. It was supposed to be really nutrient dense, but I mean, I heard about this in the late 80s early 90s and then I really haven’t heard anything since then. Robb: And similar to being able to sing along to like Scooby doo and stuff like that. It’s a piece of obscure information that just lodged in my head and I don’t know that it has any relevance to today at all. In general supplementation with Foley is a little bit of a tricky story which is kind of separate from just the basic mineral piece. Robb: Chris Master John has done a pretty interesting look at I guess methylation status and what not and is really kind of arrived at this idea that riboflavin supplementation is kind of the master governor for the whole methylation story for the MTFR gene mutations or gene permutations. On the mineral side it makes sense to me to try to round out our minerals and trace minerals. Robb: I think that this is where things like sea food and sea vegetables are probably a pretty good plan. It at least in some regards because at a minimum I think that other than adding pollutants to sea water, the mineral composition of the water itself and the critters in it has probably changed less in state, like the less 10,000 and a hundred thousand years then our soil has. Robb: And so it I don’t know that you fully deal with selenium and a few other trace minerals in that context, but I do think that just a real judicious application of sea vegetables and seafood could probably plug a lot of the holes and kind of the deficiencies of a modern agricultural diet. Robb: I would make the case that this is one of those things that I think it’s going to take a while to fully vet this out, but when you have meat in particular meat that is produced on a patch of dirt that has really solid holistic management, regenerative farming practices, you’re feeding the soil microbiome in a way that those critters are then mining various nutrients out of the soil and putting it into grass. Robb: And then that goes into the animals and it’s pretty early. But I think that there’s a powerful case to be made that you probably have a better nutrient profile than with the industrial agriculture approach, which is putting synthetic fertilizer in all of the activity is happening right there at the surface of the soil and you’re actually kind of destroying that deeper microbial interaction that mines minerals. Robb: So I think that over the course of time, this is another one of these cases for why regenerative farming is probably going to be really important. I don’t know if that entirely answers your question. That’s kind of what I’ve got. Ben: Yeah, no that, yeah. So what has Hatfield was talking about is the same stuff. It’s over in Russia and the rocky areas over there, they source it. But no, that answers a lot because that’s just something I know we really like to talk about micronutrients a lot. But in with regenerative farming, we’re focusing a lot on the practices around raising livestock. Ben: But I know that the whole component as well is the depletion of the ground minerals and how we used to be able to get some of that from those vegetables. And I just was wondering if you had any insight. Robb: Yeah, I think leaning heavily on regenerative practices and then I do think interim to that. Some things like Mumi maybe could be a way to fill some of that gap. And then I, my sense is also that leaning heavily on ocean derived plant and animal material is a really solid way to kind of plug some of those potential gaps. Ben: Awesome. That answers it. Robb: Thanks for hanging in there with us. We had all manner of- Nicki: Technical diffculties. Robb: Technical difficulty getting this thing fired back up, so thanks for hanging in there. Ben: No problem. I appreciate what you guys do so it’s no problem. Robb: Awesome. Thanks man. Nicki: Thanks Ben. Robb: Take care. Ben: Yep. See you. Robb: Bye. Bye. Nicki: All right, we have a caller from area code three O four area code three O four you’re on the line. Please tell us your name, where you’re calling from in your question please. Isaac: Robb and Nicki, how are you doing? This is Isaac. I’m calling from Ohio. Robb: Hey man. Nicki: Hey man. Robb: Great to get you. Isaac: All right, so here’s the deal. I beat the odds and I was selected for a very selective race, 100 Mile trail race out in California and last time I did it, I barely made my time goal. So this time I’m going to have to look for every optimization out there and I want to get it perfectly right. Isaac: So the thing that’s been on my mind is related to like supplements that may be could backfire and specifically thinking about resveratrol, vitamin C and then other interventions like ice water baths or yoga and Dr Gundry’s book Plant Paradox even has me looking skeptically at plants now. Isaac: So I’m wondering if you have any thoughts on spacing, endurance, exercise with certain supplements or whether there’s no concern for any of the things that I’ve mentioned. Robb: No, I think that you’re really onto something there and we could maybe make the case that this is getting out to the last few percentage points in adaptation. But then again maybe not some of the studies that have been done looking at say like Potassium bicarbonate supplementation in and around say lactate producing exercise. Robb: People will get a performance bump so long as they don’t succumb to the gastric emptying deal of spewing out of both ends with that but the bicarbonates seems to blunt all of that kind of hormetic stress adaptation and we see a similar thing with vitamins in general, vitamin C and so it really it’s interesting. Robb: I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts that’s a little bit of a tangential thing. I will really try to pull this thing back in, but I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts on just longevity in general, like work from Dr michael Rose and he just makes this case that there might be some real specific supplements that we may be wanting to use once in a while similar to a pharmaceutical, but there’s all manner of speculation around things like TA-65 elongating telomeres and different things like that. Robb: Everybody was geeked out on, you need super high antioxidant intake because reactive oxygen species appear to be a co factor in the aging process. But then what we found is you ended up with immune dem regulation and all this other stuff. And so I guess my point of that is figuring out a way to really optimally fuel your training and kind of periodicing that. Robb: And so building your robotic base and then honing that edge you with a peaking cycle. And it’s interesting even on the recovery side, and I’ve kind of thought about this and I’ve seen some stuff that suggests this, but Pavel Tsatsouline was just on Joe Rogan and he made the point that things like ice water baths, one, it can blunt the adaptation to exercise. Robb: But then two, what was interesting is that it actually can encourage the body to rely on that process as part of the recovery. And so what actually ends up limiting the total kind of adaptive process that we could get. And if I were to default to anything, it would actually be sauna exposure. And I could make a case on two points for that. Robb: One, heat shock proteins seem a lot better suited for dealing with the demands of exercise than cold shock proteins. Although there’s certainly value to cold shock proteins without a doubt. But then there’s also this opportunity to get a legitimate less than tricolor stretch training adaptation from that sauna session. Robb: So I would and my sense is that post-training sauna does not downregulate that pulsatile inflammatory state. If anything, it enhances it. And again, there may be, could be an argument that perhaps we don’t want to do that too often or too much. I’m not entirely sure about that. But I think that you’re on some really good footing here questioning is ribs near trawl is a concentrated dose vitamin C really going to do you any favors in the context of trying to force a really powerful training adaptation for an event. Robb: And then maybe during the event that’s it. And clearly you have to do some tinkering with this ahead of time, but a buffered vitamin C with the bicarbonate mix that could buffer lactate and keep total pH within perhaps better operating parameters on game day that might be a really viable solution, but you’re just going to perhaps test that over time and not really rely on it as training adaptation but more to know how to use it. And then do you exclusively use it on training on game day. Isaac: Yeah. I mean that’s, those are some excellent ideas. Especially I think the sauna is going to be really important for me. But I also like what you said about the periodization, because I think that’s a mistake I’ve made in the past was doing the same thing too often. So I think mixing it up is probably a good approach. Robb: Yeah. And I don’t know if you followed Zach Bitter, but that guy is really smart on this stuff. And he will admit that there’s a lot of individual variation, but some folks it’s so much simpler. If it’s like Zack Bitter is carnivore. And it’s like he never eats plant material and it’s like, well that’s not really true. Robb: He uses that in a really smart and sophisticated way to kind of goose a specific training adaptation. And then on these days where he’s covering a hundred miles in a pretty quick pace. He’s using targeted carbs now he’s using a fraction, the amount of carbs that most people would use under similar circumstances but he is absolutely using carbs. Robb: I don’t remember him talking about some things like a buffered vitamin C or bicarbonates to try to deal with that side of kind of the metabolic acidosis. But he’s operating at a really sophisticated level with that for sure. Isaac: Well that’s great. I really appreciate it. But let me get greedy and just ask one more follow up. Robb: Lay it on me. Isaac: And it’s on a related note, what are your thoughts on Sulforaphane? Because it’s another one of those, it’s not a supplement. I’m getting it just from broccoli sprouts. But it’s the sort of thing where I’m wondering could it blunt because it’s supposedly a powerful antioxidant, may be doing similar things that resveratrol would. So do you have any specific thoughts about broccoli sprouts in Sulforaphane? Robb: I’m confused on it to be honest because there’s all this great correlative stuff that suggests it’s healthy. Is that in the context of just kind of so much of what we see there, it might be preventing some of the deleterious effects of a poor diet and poor lifestyle. So what does that mean in the context of an elite athlete like yourself? Robb: And I’m not entirely sure there. It’s interesting. Anything that we call an antioxidant can be a pro oxidant under the right circumstances. So it’s really a case of relativity there, whether like vitamin C or so many of these things statens function as antioxidants to some degree. So it’s interesting what falls under that context of like antioxidant. Robb: What also appears to be happening is some degree of that mito hormetic stress that’s occurring with these plant materials. Man, I’m not entirely sure what the real deal is there. I mean it seems just the epidemiology would suggest that eating some cruciferous vegetables are generally a pretty good idea. Just this morning I had two people on Instagram messaging. Robb: These were much shorter races, but a 5K and a 10K two separate people that, but they were like, “Hey man, I just had to tell you like listen to the Paul Saladino podcasts have been tinkering with carnivores and they both set and it’s really intriguing now these are much shorter races than a hundred miles. Robb: So that’s a big deal. But that’s really intriguing. It’s fascinating to me because there’s just a million different ways to tank your performance. You’d have a terrible night of sleep. You could go out and drink a bunch of booze, you could screw up your electrolytes and stuff like that. Robb: But these folks have shifted, do what appears to be a largely carnivore intake. And like Sean Baker is kind of made the case if you’re. So I guess if the story from the carnival or camp is true that the main benefit that vegetables provide is this mito hormetic stress. And then if you’re training really hard, you’re getting a mito hormetic stress there. Do you need anymore? And I don’t know maybe not. Robb: Maybe you want to save all of that adaptation for just dealing with the exercise and not necessarily plant toxicants. And that sounds like crazy talk, but it’s plausible. I would put the likelihood maybe a little bit on the low side, but it’s possible. And again, it’s just intriguing that people are going from what is generally a pretty… They’re eating clean, they’re kind of paleo, maybe they’re eating keto and then they pull out all plant materials and all of a sudden they get a PR. Robb: And then I also know for sure there are folks at the flip side of that, that are not doing well with it. So it, and then that begs the question like how are they doing it? What other factors are in there. I do think that for these longer events, like what you were talking about, what Zach Bitter has competed in, there’s probably a case to be made for doing things some sort of a starch or glucose polymer or something like that in that context. Awesome, man. Isaac: Well, hey, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. You’ve given me so much to consider and more generally, I think that you and Nicki help out so many people, so I’m just so grateful for the chance to say hello. Robb: Hey man. Thank you. Nicki: Thanks Isaac. Robb: Take care. Isaac: All right, take care. Bye. Robb: Okay. Bye, bye. Nicki: Okay. All right. We have a caller from eight one five. Welcome to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Please tell us your name, where you’re calling from and your question. Ben: So yeah, my name’s Ben. I’m from the Chicago land area and yeah, I had some questions, comments are about ketosis. Robb: Lay it on me. Ben: Okay. So I follow, I don’t know if you’ve heard of a guy named Bart Kay, who he’s part of the carnivore scene. And he has some, I mean he’s pretty smart. You’ve spent some time in academia and he has some ideas about ketosis where he says that… He talks about ketosis… I think his hypothesis is that ketones are a secondary messenger for a hormone system and your endocrine functioning. Ben: And his argument is that it’s not a good idea to be in ketosis all the time. Granted he doesn’t really find a level of ketosis that he’s talking about and then kind of goes on this if you’re doing carnivores, like especially like a version that’s probably over a pound of meat a day and maybe with one meal a day you’d be doing basically kind of like a daily kind of keto cycling where you’re going to be keto for a large part of the day and then- Robb: Bump out due to the big meal. Ben: The big meal. When you do that, when you eat all the protein then you’re going to be gluconeogenic and then that’s I guess kick you out of ketosis enough that it’s not going to harm your metabolism or your thyroid. And I guess you want him to think that would kind of add to that. Ben: My experience is, like a couple of weeks ago I was getting hardcore about measuring my ketones and glucose and a thing that was interesting is my ketones were never above like 0.12 but my glucose was always in like 80. I kind of expected that it would be like dipping lower than that. But it wasn’t and… Robb: I think I know what you’re digging at. Let me jump in here and then you can save me if I’m bailing off of a cliff, but it’s interesting. Ages ago, I mean the mid to late 90s Dr michael Eades was recommending a low carb diet, not necessarily a super high fat diet. Now he wasn’t afraid of fat, but he made the case ages ago that he would like to see the glucose that’s used by the body primarily come as a consequence of gluconeogenesis out of the liver and mainly from dominating breaking down proteins because it was a super slow steady titration. Robb: There’s a super high nutrient density attached to it. There’s a high thermic effect. And so what’s interesting to me in some ways is in this story of carnivore versus keto or whatever a carnivore diet is it’s effectively a low carbohydrate diet, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a low glycogen diet or low glycogen state because of the amount of protein folks are eating. Robb: I think that we could see reasonable topping off of both muscle and liver glycogen, both from the fat and more specifically the protein. And it’s really interesting and I honestly don’t know what’s the real deal is here. I definitely could see the case for transient ketosis being a favorable thing. I think that a little bit of pulsatile exposure to glucose either via kind of hepatic released glucose or some carbohydrate in the diet. Robb: I can see some arguments from that from kind of like a hormetic stress response kind of perspective and it wouldn’t require much to get that. And then there is just a lot of really interesting stuff around potential anti aging benefits of these secondary messengers effects that ketone bodies might play stack inhibition and stuff like that. So I have not followed Bart’s work super specifically, but I’m familiar with kind of the broad brush strokes and I don’t take issue with any of it. Robb: I think that this, a lot of this stuff we really just don’t know what the real deal is. And I think that it may boil down to some fairly unique individual considerations. But one thing that we’ve talked about on I think the standard podcast is when you look at what the recommendations are out of the Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution. It’s not specifically carnivores, but it’s a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet. Robb: And what this is specifically designed for our folks with type one diabetes… And type one diabetes is so hard to manage because really the first activity of insulin when it’s released out of the beta cells of the pancreas, arguably is to downregulate glucagon in the adjacent alpha cells of the pancreas. And the way that type one diabetics have to manage this is completely in a reverse order of sticking insulin in at the surface exterior level and then waiting for it to fuse and get activity at the internal level. Robb: And so they are not really fans of a really high fat Keto diet per se because it induces potentially physiological insulin resistance and people in it and it makes that management to blood glucose levels and the management of insulin boluses more challenging than a high protein, low carb, moderate fat intake, which looks really in a lot of ways a lot more like a carnivore approach. Robb: When you get right down to it. So it makes sense to me to be more on that side of things. And then some of the early work that Loren Cordain did, one of his early papers, Paleo contemporary diet made from paleo food sources where he basically does a perspective to date 2000 calorie plan and it was for a woman and it was around 2100 calories a day, but it was over 200 grams of protein for a medium size female. Robb: And then it was maybe like 150 grams of carbs and then, I don’t know, 7,500 grams fat, something like that. But it was really high protein and so a lot of this stuff that I’ve seen that comes out of the Keto games world, the Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution, the people that seem to be succeeding on carnivore and also kind of that Loren Cordain perspective on paleo. Robb: I just see a lot of similarities there. Mainly just this really powerful emphasis on protein. And then I think that we individually have to get in and do some tinkering, kind of figure out do I do okay with some plant material, do I have some gut issues that doesn’t really allow for that. And then we’ve got some playing to deal with after that kind of kernel of like a very protein centric approach makes a ton of sense to me. Ben: Yeah. I guess the other thing I would say is I kind of wonder if there is if the keto diet is kind of a myth in the sense of at least when I first started learning about it, I had the sense like when you’re in a keto diet that means okay, my brain is being entirely told by ketose and then, so it was an interesting kind of happenstance that like when I’m kind of measuring the ketones, it’s like they’re like in this middle range, they’re not that high. Ben: And then I kind of was interested in seeing well how does that amount of ketones compare to glucose? And what’s interesting is I guess a level of 80 what is it like milligrams per deciliter of glucose is around the ballpark of like 4.5 millimole per liter. So even when you’re decently ketonic you still have- Robb: A fair amount of glucose. Ben: Three or maybe even four times as much glucose hanging around. So I, and maybe that’s just the thing is like the Keto gains approach, which seems to work for me that’s maybe not down-regulating things that you could still feel good on and do it sustainably just actually isn’t really that much of a keto diet. And so whatever kind of secondary hormonal effect maybe there is a ketones is not really happening as far as down-regulating … Robb: Yeah, man it’s really interesting these things with potential thyroid downregulation and stuff like that. I do think that a decent whack of protein is going to produce enough of an insulin response that maybe that keeps you out of that thyroid down-regulated state. Maybe you don’t need specifically a bolus of carbs to do it, particularly if you’re eating something like beef or even Whitefish, which can produce a really remarkable insulin release. Robb: And so maybe that is part of the reason why we’re not seeing that that keto gains seen just crumbling. It’s mainly females and we’re not seeing a ton of HPA axis dysregulation or thyroid or hair falling out and stuff like that. They seem to be motoring along really well. Robb: So it is interesting. There’s just some fascinating stuff on there. I forget who it was. Somebody recently was looking at the total energetic pool, which you just kind of alluded to of maybe about four to five millimolar glucose and then if we can get, usually ketone bodies are not remotely that high. They’re people that are keto adapted. Actually we’re lucky if we get a much up over one, 1.5- Ben: Oh, you know what, I have a question. So yeah, some of that I have been wondering and I couldn’t find a quick answer on the internet part is like, okay, so how many, I mean I guess it depends on what level of ketosis you’re at, but how many calories of ketones are you making in a day? Because I remember I used to be under the impression like, Oh you know, if I do like a shot of MCT oil, that’s like all getting converted into ketones. But I don’t think… It doesn’t seem to work like that. Robb: Marty Kendall did a piece on this re I think it was Marty where it, and he’s had just an interesting look on this. Basically making the case that somebody that’s metabolically flexible and metabolically healthy at rest they have a comparatively low amount of circulating energy and that makes sense. You don’t need a lot of glucose, you don’t need a lot of triglycerides, you don’t necessarily need a whole ton of ketone bodies. Robb: You need enough but don’t need a ton. And what we see on the flip side of people that are metabolically broken or heading into metabolic syndrome, they’ve got high glucose, they’ve got high triglycerides, the lifeboat proteins go up. And in really extreme cases we end up in a scenario in which we have ketoacidosis too. So we’re like drowning in energy in these situations of people with really poorly managed metabolic scenarios. Robb: Now, and he did do some breakdown on the total energetic, not load, but I guess consequences of say like a given ketone level of in general MCTs is just kind of backing up a little bit. In general, my understanding is that MCTs do predominantly convert to ketone bodies. It is interesting on the brain metabolism side, it was only recently that they discovered that some medium chain fats, medium chain triglycerides can fuel the brain directly. Robb: So the brain isn’t only glucose or glucose and ketones like there’s some medium chain fats in there and I don’t know that anybody’s really been looking at this, but under a more ketogenic scenario is the brain able to use longer chain fats? I don’t know, but it was a surprise that it could use medium chain triglycerides. Robb: So I wouldn’t be shocked if we had another surprise that there’s some utilization of longer chain fats in addition to the ketone body. Interesting thing is the production of ketones is kind of thermodynamically inefficient. There’s an energy loss in that whole story. And so biology wouldn’t be super stoked about that. It’s great on the one hand from kind of a potential fat loss perspective, although you’re talking about maybe 25, 50 calories a day. I mean if you miscalculate your handful of almonds, you just screwed that quote metabolic advantage up. Ben: Hold on I wonder though, I mean is the conversion of the MCT into beta hydroxy iterate? Is that actually that much more energy costly then like a longer chain fatty acid that going through everything to get converted into acetol COA. I mean take one more step. Robb: It’s a little bit more energetically costly and it’s both good and bad because you’re popping out of the NADH part of this story and relying more on the FADH part of the story. You’re pulling things away from going through the mitochondrial complexes one, three and five. Robb: They’re more mitochondrial complex too, which has a lower oxidative stress but interestingly is a little bit more energetically demanding. So, and again at the end of the day, I don’t know how much any of that matters in the big picture, but it’s interesting stuff for sure. Ben: Yeah, you definitely hear a lot of, I mean at least when I was first getting into this stuff, you get sold on this idea fat it burned so much cleaner. You almost get this visual, if you don’t know Biochem that literally like the electrons or whatever the hell is getting stripped directly off the fat. Ben: But at the end of the day it’s just like a Acetyl-CoA really. And you kind of like DC whatever differences that there are just marginal or really just marginal and but it adds up I guess on a big scale Robb: It could. Nicky’s going to cut us off here because we’re getting long winded but couple of quick thoughts. So it is just that clearly for at least some people, a low carb or ketogenic approach, whether carnivores or whatever. It just offers some really remarkable appetite control, you’re just not hungry in the same way that you were on kind of a mixed diet. Robb: And that’s a huge win. And I would say that 90, 95% of the benefit is there. When we look at longevity research in animals, most of the benefit of calorie restriction seems to just be that they’re being protected from a super shitty lab, chow based diet. And when animals are fed a species appropriate diet, you don’t really see much benefit, but it may be even detriment for a species appropriate diet. Robb: So I, if we figure out a way to just not succumb to overeating in the modern industrial world, and I think that’s like 90 or 95% of the fight and then from there, this 5% of do we have H stack inhibition? Do we have lower oxidative stress? There might be truth to that, but I think all of that takes kind of second seat to just the fact that we’re not overeating. Nicki: Thanks Ben for your call. Robb: Nicki is doing the big hook- Ben: Thanks for answering my call. Robb: -and yanking us out of here. Nicki: Thanks so much. Robb: Take care man. Ben: Thank you, you too. Robb: Bye, bye. Ben: Bye Nicki: Welcome to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Can you tell us your name and where you’re calling from and your question? Zach: Hey, it’s Zach from Reno. Missed you guys. Nicki: Hey Zach. How are you doing? Zach: Doing great. How are you doing? Robb: Good. Nicki: Great. What can we answer for you today? Zach: Okay. Can you hear me okay? I’m kind of outside right now. Nicki: Yeah. Robb: You’re coming through? Yep. Zach: Okay, cool. First off, I just want to thank you for that interview do with a doctor Saladino, did I pronounce that right? Robb: Yep. Zach: Yeah, I didn’t know the damn, I mean like your other books, you’ve kind of talked about your struggles, but hearing the full extent, I was like, Oh man, I make a lot of excuses. So I really appreciate you leading by example and being transparent about all that. Robb: Thank you. Zach: Basically my question is I have a lot of behaviors I’ve used over the years to varying degrees of being unhelpful. So like when we put one behavior and we do kind of this stereotypical cross eviction type thing where we use another behavior. I’m kind of curious as to what methods you use outside of working on mindset, movement, sleep, wake cycle, like all the general things. Zach: Have you guys gone down the amino acid rabbit hole? It’s like brain support or have you seen other ways of trying to change multiple behaviors at the same time? Robb: Man, I’ve done a fair amount of tinkering with the amino acid story. I personally haven’t had great success with it. A good friend of mine, Dr Ben Bolser leans heavily on that and but also it’s in the context of kind of appropriate glycaemic load, paleo West type diet. And so I think that for some people doing DL phenol alanine can really dramatically increase dopamine levels in either depression or chronic pain. Robb: It can really help with that. But on facilitating that behavior change. And it’s a really interesting thing going from one kind of addictive behavior to another within CrossFit, and this isn’t beating up on CrossFit, but within CrossFit there are a remarkable number of former addicts from alcohol to harder drugs. And you could make the case that they kind of supplanted one addiction with another. Robb: And then depending on to what degree CrossFit takes over their life, it may take on some maladaptive characteristics. But I guess I’m a little bit sanguine on that in the… I think that so long as we figure out something that seems like a better option than maybe that’s a good idea. Robb: But I did in my youth, I lived literally next door to a methadone clinic and those folks would chain smoke and eat Twinkies like their life depended on it and I don’t it clearly compared to heroin. Maybe they’ve got a longer run on the Twinkie and cigarette diet than they were on the black tar heroin diet. Robb: But at the same time that’s going to have an expiration date on it too. So man, I don’t know as far as it is definitely outside my wheelhouse on that. That definitely gets into the addiction counseling and stuff like that, which I am not even remotely well steeped in. But again, I guess circling back to your original question, I’ve tinkered with some of the amino acid stuff, recommending things like tyrasine or tryptophan at various points and they I haven’t seen it work miracles for me. Robb: But again, I’m also not at an exceptionally well schooled in the protocols on that stuff. I do know some people really, they profess some really remarkable successes with that. But I think beyond addressing sleep quality and things like that. It’s hard to beat those elements and then even some things like some degree of sleep deprivation that feeds into consolidating sleep into a more sleep efficient period. Robb: They’ve used that for some bipolar disorder and some depression. So I think tweaking the levers of circadian biology, sleep and food in my opinion are probably more powerful tools or that shows the confirmation bias of my limited experience on that. Zach: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It sounds funny but I mean even having read about this stuff for over 10 years, it took me until last year to accept how bad my sleep has been. For literally decades. How a natural extent and going through some really good, well reputable, clean books and how it talks about kind of what you were just saying, how having that chronic sleep deprivation can impact decision making and all these other things. Zach: Your brain is basically damaged to varying levels on a daily basis. So, okay. I appreciate that feedback and I really appreciate the healthy rebellion. So thank you very much. Robb: Awesome man. Nicki: Thanks Zach. Robb: Take care. And we miss all of our peeps in Reno. Nicki: Yeah, take care. Zach: Yeah, you too. I missed being crushed by you a regular bases. Robb: Well, we’ll see you at a Spring Camp. Take care, man. Zach: Awesome, thanks brother. Have a good day. Bye. Nicki: All right. Our final question this week is in written format and it’s from Nate on the dangers of Stevia. He says, “Hi Robb and Nicki. Huge fan of the show and format. Do you see any dangers in consuming pure Stevia powder or liquid other than the obvious danger of it potentially making you crave more sweeter foods? Nicki: Have you read about any credible downsides to it that would concern you? I love the stuff. It helps me on my keto diet and I just want to make sure it’s cool to keep consuming in moderation. About a quarter to a half teaspoon, maybe a day. Thanks again for being an unbiased source of truth in this crazy landscape. Robb: Well, I don’t know if I’m unbiased. Everybody has a bias. I appreciate the vote of confidence. Hopefully my bias being steeped in evolutionary biology and a little bit of biochemistry and stuff. Hopefully that gives us a half decent place to at least start the conversation around. Robb: But the stevia and sweetener topic, it’s funny, particularly within fasting circles, people will see Stevia say in the element product that we have and they freak out and they’re like, it stops your blancher fast. And I’m like, via what mechanism? Robb: And then there’s radio silence and then I’m a big mean person because I’m being a scientific or whatever, I don’t even know. But so people will make cases around, well you release insulin and I think in some people under some circumstances, typically in an overfed state, stevia could pose a problem because it’s an additional sweetening agent. Robb: But the interesting thing with it is it lowers blood sugar, which they usually hold up as being a laudable thing. But that is because it gooses a little release of insulin, but it’s not a really huge amount under the conditions of keto and fasting. It is trivial, non-significant, or maybe even beneficial because you’re actually scooting a little bit of blood glucose into storage and then you’re going to burn fat and produce ketones more. Robb: So even on that whole autophagy side, I’ve been digging around and there’s not a ton of material around this, but stevia, lice, like most plant materials seems to enhance certain degrees of autophagy. So again, in the, what was his name? Nicki: Nate. Robb: Nate, hit the nail on the head, the real concern around any type of modified sweetener flavoring in something like chicharrones, if they’re plain, you’ll have one or two and you’re good. If they have like- Nicki: Barbecue flavor. Robb: Barbecue flavor then you’ll have one or two bags. And so that’s where we get into hazards mainly with these different flavors and sweeteners and stuff. Nicki: Making it hyper palatable and- Robb: Making it hyper palatable. People get all wrapped around the axle of, well, it’s got a little bit of monosodium glutamate or this or that, either the other. And it’s like that’s really not the issue generally other than maybe some very sensitive people. Robb: But the issue is when we tweak things in such a way that we can easily overeat them. We were messing around with a couple of different chocolate bar variations and they’re pretty good. They’re mainly stevia sweetened and then we found this one and Oh my God, it’s like amazing. Nicki: Yeah, it was like a zero. It was like a sugar free chocolate bar, but it also had almonds in it and I saw that it changes the palette. Robb: Just the mouth feel though, and like man, it tastes like chocolate. And this is something where normally the standard like stevia sweetened chocolate bars- Nicki: 80% chocolate. Robb: We’ll eat a piece or two and it’s no big deal. But we would through the course of a day, smash. Nicki: The entire bar. Robb: At least one bar, maybe more if it was around. Nicki: So we had to stop buying those. Robb: Just don’t last that much. Yeah. Those are examples. But the problem is the hyper palatability thing that occurs, in my opinion, not necessarily that these specific sweeteners are in and of themselves problematic. Nicki: Awesome. Thanks for the great question, Nate. All right, that’s a wrap. And then thank you for joining us. Make sure to check out our show sponsor Perfect Keto for all your keto needs. You can go to perfectketo.com/rebellion10 and use code REBELLION10 for $10 off your order of $40 or more. Please- Robb: Share this episode. Nicki: Share this episode. Robb: If you enjoy it. If you find it helpful- Nicki: You can help us. Robb: Share this thing around. Nicki: Reach our mission of getting a million people out of the sick care system by spreading this podcast. We are doing all that we can to get the message of health out there in regenerative agriculture and the fact that we have power over how we feel and how our bodies are. Robb: It’s profound in its profundity, but seriously that we’ve had solid growth, but to reach this goal of getting a million people out of the sick care system, we need y’alls help and the feedback that we get is that the show’s awesome. We produce good content. It’s super helpful, but we need to start sharing this out to the masses and clearly the show isn’t going to be a perfect fit for everybody, but if somebody has- Nicki: Especially with you F-bomb. Robb: Particularly with my F-bombs. Nicki: Tendency. Robb: But if you know somebody that is struggling and they have a certain health issue or a certain question, it’s a pretty good chance that we’ve covered it at some point in either this show or a previous show. So please do share that stuff around. Sign up for this subscription. Nicki: And if you want to join us in the healthy rebellion community where I guess when this show airs, we’re just wrapping up our first 30 day reset and 7 day carb test. Robb: Which has gone amazing. Nicki: We couldn’t be happier. People are making some great strides, breakthroughs. We’ve had mindset coaches come in where it’s been a really, really special experience. So we’re looking to do more stuff like that. But this just the community in general, it’s a really amazing place and we’ve got some great people and we’d love to have you as well. So you can go to join.thehealthyrebellion.com and we’ll see you in there. Robb: Awesome. Thank you wife. Nicki: Thanks hubs. Robb: See y’all soon. Where you can find us: Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/ Keto Masterclass The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term. Learn More Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available! Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, #Podcast #BehaviorChange #Podcasts #SoilMineral #ExerciseAdaptation

Arplis - News source https://arplis.com/blogs/news/dangers-of-stevia-supplements-soil-mineral-depletion-live-call-thrr015

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junker-town · 4 years

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Super Bowl LIV: The official hard seltzer rankings

Photo credit should read TIMOTHY A. CLARY/AFP via Getty Images

Make sure you’re getting only the best for your Super Bowl parties.

The San Francisco 49ers face off against the Kansas City Chiefs in Super Bowl LIV come Sunday. As you’re planning your Super Bowl party, you may be weighing all of your drink options. That’s where I come in. I’m here to help you outfit your celebration with the best hard seltzer.

Hard seltzers really burst onto the scene in 2019 as beverages like White Claw and Truly started popping up. They’re light, boozy, gluten free, and have less sugar (read: hangovers) than some of their alcoholic counterparts. With the recent releases of the Bud Light and Natty Light seltzers, I thought it was time to figure out which seltzer is the best. I conducted a taste test of eight different brands: Smirnoff, Bold Rock, Omission, Truly, Bud Light, Natural Light, Bon & Viv, and White Claw.

I’m not here for your trash “hard seltzer is bad” takes. You’re wrong.

The seltzers were rated on several factors:

Flavor (1-10 scale): Pretty simple. How does it taste?

Drinkability (1-10 scale): Is this a good drink for an event or tailgate? Can you have more than one?

Miscellaneous (1-5 scale): Does it have a cool can? Are the ads awesome?

In case anyone wants to question the validity and procedure of this very professional endeavor, I took several steps to ensure no seltzer got an advantage. All of them were purchased at the same time (my goodness, that was an embarrassing trip to Harris Teeter), they were all refrigerated in-store, and they were all put in my refrigerator until it was their turn to be tasted. I entered the eight different brands into a random generator to obtain the testing order.

Smirnoff

Bud Light

Bon & Viv

Natty Light

Omission

White Claw

Truly

Bold Rock

Each one got two normal gulps to assess the beverage, and two lightly salted bagel chips were eaten between brands to cleanse the palate (it’s all I had at home).

Let’s get to it!

8. Omission

Flavor: Pomegranate Blueberry Acai

Alc./VOL: 4 percent

Thoughts: Oh no. I don’t like this at all. The irony of this beverage being named Omission and me wishing I hadn’t picked up the six pack at the store isn’t lost on me in any form or fashion. Omission matches Smirnoff and Bon & Viv with 90 calories a serving, but has the lowest booze level at 4 percent. That means you’re not even getting drunk as you suffer through it.

Taste: 2

Drinkability: 1

Other: 1

Total Score: 4/25

7. Smirnoff Spiked Sparkling Seltzer

Flavor: Raspberry Rosé

Alc./VOL: 4.5 percent

Thoughts: You don’t get much of the raspberry with this one. It doesn’t have a lingering aftertaste, which is good, but you feel a little like you’re drinking a wine cooler that got a little too carbonated. It has a pink tinge to it, which is different from most of the others.

Taste: 5

Drinkability: 4

Miscellaneous: 2

Total Score: 11/25

6. Bold Rock Hard Seltzer

Flavor: Grapefruit

Alc./VOL: 4 percent

Thoughts: I love Bold Rock ciders, but this tasted a lot like a cider that was having an identity crisis. The grapefruit is ... fine. If someone brought this over for a dinner party, I’d gladly partake, but they’d probably hang out in the fridge for a while until someone else came over that wanted one.

Taste: 5

Drinkability: 4

Other: 3

Total Score: 12/25

5. Bon & Viv Spiked Seltzer

Flavor: Black Cherry & Rosemary

Alc./VOL: 4.5 percent

Thoughts: Bon & Viv is one of the first seltzers I had, and it’s ... fine! The black cherry & rosemary flavor is good, but it lingers a little longer than the others. I don’t really think the rosemary part is super necessary, but damn if that can isn’t the coolest of the bunch. That gets them the maximum miscellaneous score of five.

Taste: 7

Drinkability: 6

Other: 5

Total Score: 18/25

4. Truly

Flavor: Black Cherry

Alc./VOL: 5 percent

Thoughts: I like Truly! It’s good! It’s just not my FAVE. They have the most variety (13 flavors!) and they got Keegan-Michael Key to be in their ads:

@TrulySeltzer just got even better, like Derek. Now crisper and more refreshing, with only 100 calories. #TrulyHardSeltzer

— Truly (@trulyseltzer) December 19, 2019

Taste: 8

Drinkability: 8

Other: 4

Total Score: 20/25

T-2. Natural Light Seltzer

Flavor: Catalina Lime Mixer

Alc./VOL: 6 percent (!)

Thoughts: I might ruffle some feathers, but I hated the movie Step Brothers. I laughed twice: when John C. Reilly said “hello miss lady” and when one of them wore the Chewbacca mask to do taxes (I don’t care enough to look up which of the two horrible characters it was) (Editor’s note: It was Dale).

THAT SAID.

I really appreciate the work Natty — sorry, Natural — Light is doing here. Catalina Lime Mixer is a play on Catalina Wine Mixer, something that I could have brushed off as coincidence if the cans didn’t also say, “When cherry and lime become best friends.”

For that, and the fact they have the normal size 12 oz. cans that can easily fit my coozie collection, they get a full miscellaneous score.

It’s a fresh taste ... the lime is a nice touch. Much like Bud Light, Natural Light knows how to make a beverage that can be drank all day. It’s the booziest of the bunch at 6 percent — so heads up there, folks.

Taste: 8

Drinkability: 9

Other: 5

Total Score: 22/25

T-2. Bud Light Seltzer

Flavor: Black Cherry

Alc./VOL: 5 percent

Thoughts: Oh shit, this is delicious! You get the cherry right away and it’s a crisp flavor. It’s light enough (and no aftertaste) that it’s perfect for a tailgate or day on the lake.

I got a Lyft the night before conducting this taste test and discussed it with the driver (who was wonderfully nice). We both expressed our cynicism at Bud Light creating a seltzer, and he said, “I just think if you end up liking a Bud Light seltzer, you probably have no personality.”

BRB — examining all my life choices.

Two Super Bowl Ads. Only one can win. It's #PostyStore vs. #PostyBar. Watch #PostyStore and RT your favorite to help us decide. @PostMalone pic.twitter.com/1ihbKMz0T0

— Bud Light Seltzer (@budlight) January 29, 2020

Taste: 8

Drinkability: 10

Miscellaneous: 4

Total Score: 22/25

1. White Claw

Flavor: Black Cherry

Thoughts: Ahhh, the OG. White Claw is the seltzer that put seltzers on the map. Find me some Instagram ad where there’s a random brand trying to sell you sweatshirts with Baby Yoda holding a Truly? You can’t.

White Claw is one of the brands that have made it into football stadiums around the country — I know for a fact they serve the Black Cherry tall boys at Hard Rock Stadium, I had one* at the Orange Bowl in December — meaning they’ve truly made it as a sports icon.

*More than one.

Taste: 10

Drinkability: 9

Other: 4

Total Score: 23/25

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megagroovyfeststudent-blog · 6 years

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Lime African-american Bean Salad-- Oh She Glows.

Pork loaf, when the take pride in as well as pride from the frugal United States homemaker, now turns up, fancy-pants design, in city areas. I have actually brought in models of these breakfast biscuits previously, yet have never ever thought to place peanut butter as well as bind on all of them. That is A GREAT DEAL far better in comparison to any other common morning meal cereal (for me a minimum of), and this I think is actually mostly described by its low GI rating. Paired with hard-boiled eggs, briny nicoise olives, and also dressed in tart vinaigrette, this sandwich is actually certainly not your regular lunchroom fare. I've never ever been the sort of person who excellents at self-pacing, therefore when I find a scrumptious, creamy, poached egg as well as avocado salute kinda morning meal that I truly, truly like, OH HELLO I am actually mosting likely to consume all of it year. The reason I am actually talking to is that I at times deliver images of dishes I create to my household, yet they are certainly not terrific. Crammed along with toasted walnuts, cut carrots, plus all the flavors found in carrot cake, these light buttermilk pancakes are a guilt-free breakfast pleasure. Quick-grilled fish coated with Cajun flavoring possesses bunches from flavor, as well as the creamy-spicy Dijon mayonnaise ahead kicks traits up a mark or more, but the whole recipe possesses simply over 300 calories each club sandwich. Our pieces of breadstuff goned on the little edge so our company each had 2 overstuffed sandwiches as well as enjoyed all of them to the last bite! They're thus fairly as well as delicious and this plus a cut up apple = best job breakfast finger meals! Some delectable morning meal choices would certainly be a high protein Classical style yogurt along with granola as well as fruit product topping, a spinach and also tomato omelet created along with a combination of entire egg and also egg whites alonged with fresh fruit. I yearn for to consider to eat it in yet another dish very soon after if I open up a could of chickpeas for a mixed greens.

However, you'll notice that I used dried out oregano in the tomato dressing, which I created for pair of reasons: One if that new oregano isn't really accessible simply listed here (I have actually simply observed this available for sale when), as well as pair of, dried out oregano includes that unique taste of the meatball sandwiches that I fondly recollect back in the states. Crust concepts: my preference is a graham biscuit shell, as well as unless I am actually overlooking one thing major, that resembles a lot of the store-bought ones are vegan because they use oils. rather than butter! Lately, I have actually been actually enjoying this breakfast a fair bit and it simply struck me just recently that possibly I need to discuss it with you. I'll add the frisee aux lardons to the instead delicious parsley-garlic mushrooms for our dish. Went by there last night as well as the brand new outlet in their place stated they were actually not there certainly. I have the very same concern, Laura - no matter just how big my breakfast is actually, I'll be actually depriving the middle of early morning ... and also my breakfasts are actually commonly really thick. The club sandwich shop affixed to the cafe de los angeles location, merely around coming from the edgar quinet terminal - this is actually owned through joseph and also he produces the best club sandwiches i had in the area. You may presume that you can easily no more head out to supper along with good friends, enjoy family members meals or celebrate the holiday seasons. As well as that was nice to alter breakfast off my normal oat meal or green smoothie mix. Displays crucial thinking by organizing ideas in reasonable purchase to assist the main idea( s) from the paper. If you are actually making use of a shake as a meal replacement, this is actually organic to assume you'll need a much larger section. A hot and fast breakfast in winter seems excellent - however bananas are the only meals on the planet I genuinely object to. mozzarella, lively sage, and also a generous favorite from reddish pepper make this a standout breakfast or brunch dish. When I am actually in the mood for a decadent club sandwich, I'll undoubtedly be creating these again. unmodedeviesain is actually unbelievable as a pizza covering, yet this was simply a concern of your time just before I loaded that on breadstuff throughout Club sandwich Season. We are loving your cookbook in our property, the avocado cream sauce on the enchiladas was actually a certain favorite, ummm maybe I'll possess that for morning meal. I changed the cooking time to 12 minutes." As total size or mini-muffins, try these for a breakfast or as a take-along morning meal anytime. I am actually salivating over the vegetable pics:-RRB- I laughed when I review your tomato basil sandwiches due to the fact that my hubby and also I consume a variation on the reg. Many thanks for all the ideas, your tips truly touch others, even as far as listed below in South Africa (where I keep and also where there is actually little bit of vegetarian motivation). No glucose demanded for sweet taste and also leftover tribute is fantastic cold, created right into a sandwich for morning meal later on this week. It is among minority spots in Paris I have actually ever been actually offered such a gesture, and that's totally a measure from the type of treatment they provide guests. I created all of them last evening and each my hubby and also I inhaled them ... he also had the leftovers for breakfast today. I am actually uncertain I would make these on a weeknight merely bc their are many components, prep time, etc I may vouch for both sandwich as well as raclette, however I wouldn't suggest trying all of them both on the very same excursion. I am actually always trying to find brand-new means to have breakfast on the move. I will possibly do that in a bun container to make sure that they are actually presently portioned. These are actually a number of the heartier barbequed meals I have actually made- ideal for a full meal or can still be actually an edge at a BBQ! This has been a remarkable way to manage my dishes and discuss them together.

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goodra-king · 5 years

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Transcript of Finding Your Brand’s Purpose

Transcript of Finding Your Brand’s Purpose written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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Transcript

John Jantsch: This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Gusto, modern, easy payroll benefits for small businesses across the country. And because you’re a listener, you get three months free when you run your first payroll. Find out at gusto.com/tape.

John Jantsch: Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Jeff Fromm. He is a partner at the Barkley ad agency. He’s also the president of FutureCast. He’s a consumer trend expert, speaker, and author of a new book, The Purpose Advantage: How to Unlock New Ways of Doing Business.

John Jantsch: Jeff, thanks for joining me.

Jeff Fromm: Thanks a bunch John. Looking forward to it.

John Jantsch: You also have the distinction of being one of those very few Kansas City guests that I end up having on the show, so I always love that. I never do any of my shows sitting in the same room with people, but we could’ve done that couldn’t we have?

Jeff Fromm: Yeah, we’ll try that. We’ll put it on the calendar for when your schedule allows for that, and we’ll make it a live episode.

John Jantsch: This topic of purpose is so hot that it’s sort of almost starting to get tiresome because everybody’s talking about it, but nobody’s doing it, or not enough people are doing it. Why do you suppose that is?

Jeff Fromm: Well I think part of the reason the topic’s gotten so hot is you have the CEO of Unilever spending a fair amount of time in national and international media talking about some of the brands that they have that do it pretty well. Not all their brands do. They have hundreds of brands.

Jeff Fromm: And then you also have the CEO of BlackRock, which is the other side of the coin, the institutional investor, saying, “In the next few years, if you’re not doing this, we’re simply not gonna invest in your brand. In order to be considered on the list, you’re going to have to be purpose driven.” So you have sort of both sides of Wall Street now talking about it. In terms of the doing it, here’s what I would say. Today’s consumer and today’s employee, all things being equal, leans to purpose or values-driven brands.

Jeff Fromm: But all things aren’t always equal. Sometimes brands are faster, better, they taste better, they’ve got some advantage, and then purpose isn’t going to make a big difference. But when all things are equal, it can be a really big deal. And, and so that’s where I think people need to understand.

Jeff Fromm: And then also you have a lot of, what is the definition of purpose? And by my reckoning, as I’ve looked at a large body of work, there has to be a societal benefit. You could have a really strong brand like Glossier, and it’s a design-led brand. And it’s really interesting. There’s no real societal advantage. Or you could be Amazon and you have a really powerful brand. I’m not sure I see a societal advantage. That doesn’t mean you can’t win if you’re not purpose driven. It just means there are a lot of purpose-driven brands today that are gaining momentum.

John Jantsch: This idea is not new, but why is it, why do you think it’s come to the forefront? What sort of dynamic has made it an essential element now to compete?

Jeff Fromm: You’ve got several factors happening all at the same time. You have really low unemployment, and that means we’re competing in a labor market where I’m trying to distinguish myself, and so if the benefits and the salary and these things are all convergent, being a purpose-driven or values-driven brand can sometimes be an advantage in attracting and retaining staff.

Jeff Fromm: And so even some companies like MOD Pizza compete on that basis. They build that into their DNA. At the same time you have that happening, you have a proliferation, as you know, of direct and indirect competitors. I mean, we could walk down the grocery store and find, I don’t know, 50, 100 different kinds of toothpaste.

John Jantsch: Yogurt. Yogurt’s the one I like to pick on. There’s miles, miles of yogurt.

Jeff Fromm: You know, I had a Chobani yogurt for the lunch today and there are so many yogurts. Now, Chobani is a purpose-driven innovator. I don’t buy Chobani because it’s purpose driven. I Chobani because I love the flavors. In fact, it’s purpose driven, only matters when the flavors I want and the price are about equal. Someone else has better flavors or a significantly better price than, but when things are about equal, then I go to the purpose-driven innovator. And Chobani is one of the purpose-driven innovators that has gone from the relatively smallest player in the category that was probably about as sleepy as any category I could ever imagine to a very hot, vibrant category taking share away from the cereal aisle and taking snack occasions away from people who historically maybe had a candy bar, and now they’re replacing it with a yogurt and a sidecar of sugar.

John Jantsch: I think a lot of times when people think purpose, they think, oh, I don’t know, like Tom’s, you know, like a grand sort of charity. They’re doing all this good in the world. But I think that people sometimes, I think purpose just means that you’re defining what you stand for or why you stand for. And I think a lot of times brands that seem to really take off with this purpose have created a movement or they’ve created some sort of new functionality like Warby Parker, for example. I mean I think they do some nice things and they’ve gotten on the cause a bandwagon as well. But I think originally, they solved a really bad buying experience that people had and that functionality turned them into sort of a movement. Does that, does that make any sense? I think a lot of times people get really hung up on the, we have to give money to charity as our purpose.

Jeff Fromm: I think you’re hitting a really important point. The giving money to charity model has existed for a really long time, and [inaudible] model is only so effective.

Jeff Fromm: In fact, it can be almost ineffective if you’re not careful. The key part is it’s the functionality with something else. Bombas socks, which is a one-for-one sock company, actually makes a technically superior sock, at least relative to all the other socks in my drawer. If it wasn’t a technically superior sock, I don’t know how much I’d care that you’re giving a pair away. But now that I see how superior is, it’s like, well, okay, I feel better about indulging in this more expensive sock.

Jeff Fromm: One of the most powerful brands on the planet is Tide detergent. I think Tide probably cleaned people’s clothes pretty well. Seventh Generation is having great success against this massive brand because I think it probably cleaned about as well as Tide, but I feel a little better about myself when I use Seventh Generation knowing it doesn’t have an impact on the environment and actually at shelf, generally, and you could look at walmart.com and other places, but generally it’s about 10% more.

Jeff Fromm: They’re charging about a 10% premium at shelf. Consumer doesn’t write a check to the environment. They don’t say, “I’m going to write a check to the Environmental Defense Fund” or anything else. They say, “I think it cleans as well as this other thing that I’ve heard about, Tide, but I think it might be a little better in terms of how.” And so it’s not charity. It’s I feel a little better about myself as a person and I don’t pay a lot extra for it.

Jeff Fromm: The key part is there’s a functional benefit, as you pointed out, and there’s a small price premium, although in the world of a Unilever getting a 10% price premium over a brand is strongest Tide, not so small. But that assumes you’re actually getting credit for your purpose, which in the case of Seventh Generation, they probably do. There are plenty of brands that fail to get credit for their purpose too.

John Jantsch: A lot of my listeners are small business owners. So far we’ve talked about really giant businesses, but I think it goes down to the the plumber or the restaurant or the local restaurant. I think that that people get behind things because of maybe what they think it stands for.

John Jantsch: And I’ll give you a really obscure example. Our listeners won’t know this, but you might. There’s a little, there’s a little bar cafe in Kansas City in Westport called Ca Va, and I’ll give them a great shout out. They serve primarily, if not exclusively, French champagne. I think you can actually get other drinks there, but that’s their thing. And it’s very dark. It’s very French. It has a vibe, and I think that in some cases what they’re trying to do is bring that to the world, bring that experience to the world. I feel like that’s a purpose.

Jeff Fromm: Yeah. It meets some definitions of purpose. The one that we put forward in the book was around societal benefit and we also added that even though purpose is a noun, metaphorically, purpose needs to be a verb.

Jeff Fromm: It would not meet the standard we put forward in the book. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a reason for existing like Glossier, like Amazon, or like other businesses, but they have a clear reason for being. I’m not that familiar with this particular fine establishment, and it seems, it seems like when I need to get to.

John Jantsch: You need to get to. But here’s my point that you just made. Is it enough to provide the societal, what did you call it, societal benefit?

Jeff Fromm: Societal benefit.

John Jantsch: Societal benefit of making people feel better for that afternoon or that evening? I mean especially since I’m sort of in charge of whether or not it made me feel better? Isn’t that providing a little bit of a societal benefit? I’m trying to take this down to the level where every business says that we can do this. [crosstalk]

Jeff Fromm: There are plenty of people who would agree with you, for sure. They would say that meets the definition, and same with Glossier and Amazon. They all have very clear progress. In the book, we’ve defined it around societal benefit, meaning positive impact on sustainability or cultural issues like issues around equality or any number of things. It doesn’t meet the definition we put forward in the book. It clearly needs the needs of you and other people are wouldn’t be open and doing such a wonderful job.

Jeff Fromm: And so does Amazon and I use Glossier because they’re both bigger companies. The definition we’ve chosen is a little more narrow in order to try to get clarity around the fact that there has to be something that company’s doing, and there are plenty of companies that do things.

Jeff Fromm: There are plenty of B2B companies that are doing things in the sustainability space, and local companies do things. There are local companies taking on everything from urban farming to, you know, help people who don’t have food to other things that are important to their local consumer or customer.

Jeff Fromm: For me, the big part is, in the brands I try to highlight in the book, connecting that purpose to your business model. Seventh Generation is getting a premium from a consumer concerned about getting clean laundry functionally and doing good by the environment, and then they have to reinvest in new product innovation and other things. You try to build a virtuous cycle into the model, whether you’re a small business or a big business, and ideally it helps to fuel how people who use the brand and your employees feel about that brand.

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John Jantsch: Do you see any danger in people saying yes, this fifth P we have to do it? What would be a good purpose? That’s what we’re going to … let’s get our ad agency communicating our our good purpose.

Jeff Fromm: Yeah, I think that is a problem. I would say this. Typically, for me, a starting point, you would be very familiar with this, is you sort of look at the heritage and the original reason for being of a company, and a lot of times when you dig back to the roots, you’ll find a functional reason, and then you’ll find some other things about the history of that company.

Jeff Fromm: If you can sort of dig into those roots and find something that’s very true, then that would be a probably better path forward as opposed to why don’t we append this donation onto when everyone buys X we donate 5% to cause X.

Jeff Fromm: It doesn’t usually work out as well when you append it on. And to your earlier point, that functional thing that you do, if you do it really well, it’s important. I’m not arguing in favor of all brands must have a purpose. I think there are a lot of brands that are winning today because that purpose gives them an edge with their employees and their consumers who are spreaders.

John Jantsch: To some degree, could you say that starts with community officially communicating what you believe as a business, is maybe a starting point for this?

Jeff Fromm: Yeah, I think a lot of companies try to do that, and hopefully they start inside their organization so that everyone can feel that internally, and then act on that externally, and all big companies started as small companies as a general rule.

Jeff Fromm: Ben and Jerry’s was once very small. These companies that are purpose driven are also trying to use the term purpose-driven innovators. Ideally they have some beliefs that the founders hold true. Perfect world, it creates a virtuous cycle where those beliefs actually help them retain their employees, that help them acquire their customers and retain customers, and there’s a cycle as opposed to just the append kind of a strategy. We’re going to do this charitable piece, which I think is generally a less successful way to think about this topic.

John Jantsch: As brands are embracing this idea more and more, and so people feel like, “Yeah, I’m a part of a movement,” or “I’m a part of a community,” or you know, “This makes me feel better, to be a part of this brand.”

John Jantsch: Do they run the risk of their consumer then feeling like, “Hey, you have to live this. You have to walk the talk at all times.”.

John Jantsch: And we can take this from the headlines right now of what’s going on with Soul Cycle and, I forget the name of the other brand that are caught up in a little bit of consumers who’ve, who are their passionate, loyal customers because they believe in what the brand stands for, that Soul Cycle is not just about … it’s about you as a person and not just about exercise. And then all of a sudden, it comes out that a board member holds a big Trump fundraiser, a lot of their people object because they feel like that’s not the brand.

John Jantsch: Are we as marketers now getting to that point where every misstep is going to be felt and determined by a market who now has their own TV stations?

Jeff Fromm: Yeah, yeah. There is no doubt that you’re right, that first of all, it’s better to not be out front on some kind of a purpose-driven topic if you can’t offer proof.

Jeff Fromm: Gillette might be the classic case study coming out as a big company in the Superbowl on toxic masculinity without having laid a foundation around their actions. What are you doing as a company to change that conversation?

Jeff Fromm: One of the mistakes small companies can make is getting out early in the communications cycle before you’ve laid a foundation with your internal stakeholders, before you’ve put down a little proof.

Jeff Fromm: The flip side is you don’t have to wait five years to talk about your purpose. It’s not like what we have to have done. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. If you could get action on the first couple of things, so people don’t think you’re a phony, it’s okay to start a conversation.

Jeff Fromm: But there is a cycle of communication, and I think one of the traps is to quickly try to get credit on something where you don’t have some history.

Jeff Fromm: It’s entirely fair for Nike to start a conversation around a number of topics that are related to cultural things because they’ve done it for a long time. Same with Ben and Jerry’s, but if I had a brand I was working on that had no history, I’d have to come at that a little more cautiously.

John Jantsch: So what if a brand has in the, you know, in their market’s mind, a purpose, and they have loyal fans, but they want to make a change? They believe something new. For example, Patagonia is an example of that a lot of people use. They really had a place in the mind of their customer and then they really went big in the whole reuse, you don’t need to buy new thing. And I think for some people, that was quite a purpose shift. I’d love it if you kind of talk a little bit about, and hopefully you’re familiar with that, but if you talk a little bit about.

Jeff Fromm: I think Patagonia is an interesting example and worth conversation, obviously not a small brand, but they act like a small brand. Their original purpose was sort of a do no harm kind of a purpose and they built quite a following around that.

Jeff Fromm: Then they did a major shift from do no harm to protect and defend. It’s interesting to me. I’m not on the inside of it, but here’s a brand that’s probably in the top 1% of purpose-driven brands with, I would argue, without having data, price elasticity advantage, frequency of use advantage. I mean, people walk around airports with T-shirts that say Patagonia and it’s like, okay. When people start to tuning your brand on your hat and your T-shirts that they’re wearing, you’re a pretty strong brand.

Jeff Fromm: Someone made a choice that consumer trends have changed. We have a lot of competitors that are also trying to do no harm. We’re going to up the ante. And they took action. I think, I think they may have been the company that donated a $10-million tax refund that they got through some new tax law changes all back to environmental charities, if I’m not mistaken.

Jeff Fromm: Here’s a company that has said, “Okay, we’re a purpose-driven, innovator,” and their products had to your earlier point, strong functional appeal. I think other people caught them on functional.

Jeff Fromm: I think other people that caught them on purpose and then they just re shifted on purpose again and to a [inaudible] worse kind of an audience that’s concerned about that kind of a purpose. Now they’re back to “Wow, what a love brand does. They changed the rules.” And so I’m not inside that organization in terms of knowing it, but as an outsider looking at it, I say it’s a great example of a company that staying ahead of the trend and appropriate pacing. You don’t want to be too far ahead. Right? You don��t want to, I’ll kick your whole-

John Jantsch: I don’t think it was that radical. I mean, it was a pretty safe bet that their customer, at least a percentage of their customer, cared about that as well, the traditional sort of outdoor person and not necessarily the fashion person cared about that that new messaging as well.

John Jantsch: If somebody’s listening to this or somebody called you and said, “This really makes a lot of sense but we’re not sure we’ve found what it is or how to communicate it.” Is there a process, a set of exercises, a strategic planning session to find some of this?

Jeff Fromm: In the book, in The Purpose Advantage, I literally lay out step by step the typical process we would use with a mid-size or larger company to identify their purpose. And I say typical because you might modify it slightly based on information presented by company executives about where they are in the cycle, okay?

Jeff Fromm: But it’s designed so any business strategists, even at a small company, could take it and apply it themselves so that they can diligently work towards here’s where I am and here’s the phases of looking through how I move my business forward with that framework.

John Jantsch: Jeff, we’ve presented a lot of big organizations as examples, but again, I contend that this is important to the smallest organization. The impact that they might make at a societal level might be different, but I think the impact to their business could be just as large. Where can people find out more about your work and of course the Purpose Advantage?

Jeff Fromm: I would invite people to connect directly. Whether that’s LinkedIn, Jeff Fromm, or you can email me, [email protected].

Jeff Fromm: The Purpose Advantage is coming out in a couple weeks and it’s on Amazon and you can literally get not only the stories of these brands but the entire workshop in the book. And I think Amazon sells that for all of $10 or $12.

John Jantsch: Dependent upon when you’re listening to this, a couple of weeks means middle of September, 2019.

Jeff Fromm: Yeah. Middle of September. I would expect them to ship the book no later than that, at the very latest. And the idea behind the book was that we are laying out not only the inspiration in the stories [inaudible 00:22:48], so the, the back half of the book is a how to create a more purpose-driven organization. Even for companies that have one, how can I refine? Because I think a lot of companies have one but they want to do better. I want to engage my employees more. I want to have a more engaged customer base. I think the examples you shared, several of which are fabulous examples, particularly your last question about Patagonia, a company that upped the game.

John Jantsch: So Jeff, thanks for something by the podcast and hopefully we’ll go have a glass of French champagne at Ca Va sometime soon.

Jeff Fromm: I’d look forward to it and thank you for having me. And I’m happy to help anyone who would like more information if they want to get in touch. All right?

John Jantsch: Awesome. Thanks Jeff.

Jeff Fromm: Okay. Take care.

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