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sam-t-a · 3 years

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Okay.

*Deep breath*

I think I’m finally calm enough to put into words exactly why I hated the finale and why I wasn’t completely surprised that I hated it.

(Heads-up: this is really long and pretty negative. If you disagree, I would of course appreciate your point of view and love to hear it, but just thought I’d let you know in case this is the kind of post you would like to avoid.)

To me, it felt like every character on the show got betrayed in some way or another, but the main ones are Han Seo (devastatingly), Chayoung (obviously) and Han Seok (bear with me).

Cha Young:

She started out as a solid FL who annoyed some people for sure, but who had so much promise as someone unconventional and bold. The way her mother’s death affected her and caused a clear shift in her personality was a super interesting plot point that really never got explored. We have no idea how she came to sacrifice her morality in joining Wusang, just that she wanted to spite her father, which is a very superficial exploration. She gets cute idiosyncrasies in lieu of an actual character and an actual character arc.

We also, halfway through the show, seem to forget that her father's death was the initial trigger. Cha young does not suggest bold ideas or intricate plans, she doesn’t fill the gaps Vincenzo is incapable of filling (because that would require that Vincenzo have flaws, and that’s not something the writers can abide), and she’s literally victimized in episode 19 and bedridden in episode 20, and that is IT.

Someone who started out supposedly as Vincenzo’s equal just became another piece in his chess set, no matter how important a piece she may be.

So her role as a badass avenger is trashed. That leaves her role as a love interest. Now, as Vincenzo’s love interest, she was supposed to get kidnapped in like episode 5 or 6 at the most if the villain has any brains whatsoever (Han Seok may or may not, more on that later). We need a reason for that not to happen too early. Cue villain is somehow in love with her for all of 15 minutes or so throughout a 20-episode series because a love triangle is inconceivable with the show’s current structure and for its purposes.

So, she spends 15 or so episodes making the first move on Vincenzo, every time, putting herself out there, creating cute moments, getting nothing in return, and then he leaves. No confession, nothing much, he wasn’t even going to say goodbye or give her the choice of coming with him.

I’m sure more chayenzo-oriented fans have already expressed all the necessary outrage over this, so I’ll move on to the part that I’ve personally been way more emotionally invested in from the get go: the Jang brothers.

Han Seo:

I was among the minority that hated the “Vinny hyung” angle from the get-go and I’ve ranted about it in another post, so I won’t get into it here in-depth, but basically it was because I felt like Vincenzo hadn’t earned it, so to have the last words Han Seo hears be “You deserve to be my brother” or whatever the fuck he was on about PISSED ME OFF. It’s VINCENZO who doesn’t deserve to be Han Seo’s brother and hasn’t done a single thing to earn it. He was a good ally. The situation he allowed Han Seo to be a part of was beneficial to him, but Han Seo’s attachment to him was neither healthy nor heartwarming, and it certainly wasn’t returned on the level he offered it.

Vincenzo’s disregard of his death didn’t strike me as odd because I never saw enough indications that this was a two-way street and Han Seo’s safety and well-being came second so often that I didn’t get the impression Vincenzo was doing much to keep him alive. This is what I meant when I said the show was glorifying a torture survivor’s trauma responses. Han Seo himself, as a torture survivor, meant nothing to them. He was just there to create one more contrived comparison between Vincenzo and Han Seok. Instead of recovering from the trauma, it’s simply employed to someone else’s favor. He doesn’t go to prison for Han Seok, he takes a bullet for Vincenzo, and we’re supposed to see that as so much better.

All of that might (JUST MIGHT) not have ruined the show for me if he’d died better. 1) It was narratively pointless and totally avoidable, 2) they could’ve framed it as heroic, but instead Han Seok’s hand patting his head is pushing it down, so he can’t even get shot with his chin up and his back straight, Taec’s already taller, so the angle’s fucked and the whole cinematography screamed “kicking an injured puppy” and most certainly NOT “survivor finally stands up to his abuser”. The final nail in the proverbial and literal coffin is that he is mourned by no one. They’re FLIRTING not 3 MINUTES LATER, it felt so tone deaf and left such a bad taste. As I said, I didn’t expect significant mourning from Vincenzo (gotta say, I didn’t expect no mourning, that was a shocker), and Cha young and the tenants had no real interactions with him and no reason to mourn him, which left only one person who could.

Which brings me to Han Seok.

Han Seok started out as a solid villain, clear goals, clear skills that help him achieve his goals and basically make him a villain worth defeating, and a very complex relationship with both his own psychopathy and his brother.

Let me get it out of the way: I do not believe Han Seok is capable of killing Han Seo because he had every reason and every opportunity to do so in previous episodes and couldn’t do it (I say couldn’t because a certain degree of reluctance is in itself inability). Han Seo’s danger far outweighed his material value the minute he shot Han Seok and then completely lost any value once he came out to the world as the chairman and it became clear that the prosecution would be going after him if anything happened, and not his brother. But time and again, he’s proven he’s all bark and no bite when it comes to Han Seo (killing-wise, specifically).

The scene where he asks him to beat Vincenzo to death could be interpreted as him wanting to give Vincenzo the “painful death” he would have given him, but honestly, I think he was way past that point. He just wanted him dead in the “You crazy? we have to kill him before he kills us” sense. To that end, killing off a key ally of Vincenzo’s, who betrayed you and almost got you killed a bunch of times, should take priority, but Han Seok’s priority is reclaiming Han Seo by forcing him back onto his side. Now, much like his “love for Cha young”, Han Seok’s keenness on not killing his brother was essential to the writers so that Han Seo can justifiably make it this far and still be useful to Vincenzo (he can’t help if Han Seok completely excludes him from all events, plans and management processes, so Han Seok needs to want to keep him on his side enough not to do that even when it’s more prudent).

All of this isn’t to say it’s unbelievable that he would kill Han Seo, but it’s DEFINITELY unbelievable that he would stay the same man after killing him. Someone here (I’m sorry, I don’t rememebr who) once said that Han Seo had become, over time, far more of a foil to his brother than Vincenzo was. To me, this means that Post-Han Seo Han Seok would be out of balance (tilted screen), unhinged in a way he never was before. The Han Seok we see shrugs and “oh, well”-s and moves on in a flash, not really any different from the villain he was four minutes and a whole brother earlier.

This is very consistent with the way the show has been de-humanizing him from the start. I’m not saying this to defend Han Seok in any way, he’s a serial killer, an abuser and a total maniac. But you can be all those things and still a human being. In fact, you can ONLY be those things if you’re a human being. The show used its villain vs villain idea to justify a lot, but in the end, Vincenzo had to be a protagonist. He had to follow up every “I’m a villain” with a contrived “but at least I’m not (insert something worse)”.

On the level of humans:

1) Vincenzo is supposedly different because he doesn’t hurt children or women (unless the women deserve it, and shooting a parent in front of their kid doesn’t count as hurting.)

But we never see Han Seok hurting women or children either. In fact, if we proceed with the “chayoung is the myung hee of the good guys” comparison, he hasn’t hurt any women nearly as badly as Vincenzo did.

2) Babel vs Mafia

Babel’s corruption is compared a lot to the mafia, with Vincenzo commenting repeatedly that the people are WORSE than the mafia...which is bullshit. Babel is a set of companies that provide goods and services, but use illegal means to maximize their profit, so they hurt/kill people in the process because they want more money and care about money more than ethics. The Mafia is an inherently criminal organization that functions PURELY on the basis of its criminality. Every single dime Vincenzo spends is blood money. None of it is clean. And while we’re on the topic, I find the whole “taking Miri under his wing” thing pretty unreasonable too because he tried to have her killed you guys, I cannot believe we’re just glossing over that. He had everyone who worked on that vault killed, just random fucking construction workers. And he’s not sorry. And the show tells you he shouldn’t be.

3) Repentance

Han Seok says outright he won’t atone, and while Vincenzo says no such thing out loud he just...doesn’t repent, I guess. He keeps the blood money, he goes back to being a full-time mafia dude doing mafia things. He leaves the same man he arrived.

So, if on the level of harm inflicted upon humanity, Vincenzo and Han Seok are pretty much equal (and Vincenzo might actually be worse), then why should we root for Vincenzo?

Well, my friend, that’s where the dehumanization comes in!

I was initially very excited to see their portrayal of a psychopath because of the very interesting ways in which the informal moral code and official justice system surrounding a psychopath/sociopath/narcissist affect their behavior and their chances of not turning out rotten, and the show looked like it was looking at corruption in general.

But as the show went on, the villain vs villain thing proved not to be enough, Vincenzo has to be better in some way (or if you’re as obsessed with him as the writers are, then ALL ways), so it became a villain vs monster narrative. Vincenzo isn’t ethical or fair or in any way interested in having a remotely positive impact on society, but at least he’s A HUMAN BEING unlike SOMEBODY. So, the characterization goes to shit, Han Seok becomes a cartoon card-board cut out of a villain and emphasis is put on how pointless his violence is, as opposed to how purposeful Vincenzo’s is.

This is dangerous on multiple levels (and I promise this is the last point I’m making).

1) For people in general, dehumanizing abusers/murderers/etc. makes us very liable to forget that you don’t have to be “a monster” to cause harm, and it makes people complacent in their belief that they are “not bad people” since they aren’t total monsters. The Banality of Evil is a thing, and in this series, it goes completely ignored. No one is inherently incapable of good or inherently undeserving of humanity.

2) For victims of abuse in specific, it’s dangerous to portray abusers (including serial killer and non-serial killer ones) as entirely bad and unlovable, because it poses the dual risk of making victims less likely to acknowledge their abuse if it comes from someone who cares about or loves them on some level because the idea that someone cannot both love and hurt you is so stereotypical. Your abuser can genuinely want you in their lives and need you and, on some level, love you, and IT DOESN’T MATTER if that love doesn’t stop them from hurting you.

On the other hand, portraying the victims of abuse as capable of flipping an off switch and hating the abuser with no hesitation or second thoughts to the point of unapologetically and cheerfully helping someone kill them and having no mixed feelings about it sends the message that if you CAN’T do that, then are you really abused? Are sure you’re not complicit in your own abuse? Do you even want to get rid of them?

So this is basically why the way the show ended was so painfully disappointing for me. And the main reason it hit so hard was that it was initially so good and had so much promise. I really expected more.

#Vincenzo #vincenzo meta #vincenzo spoilers #not that mad anymore but still so disappointed #hong chayoung #jang han seo #jang han seok #so much it to fix #my brother says hi #he is disappointed too

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bbgleeproject · 7 years

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[2/6/17, 10:41:50 PM] Roxy: andie and i have a showmance already [2/6/17, 10:42:01 PM] Roxy: we had lots of banter lol

[2/6/17, 10:51:17 PM] Roxy: lollolo [2/6/17, 10:58:27 PM] Roxy: I’ve been added to a felinenist alliance and now a menemist group lol

[2/7/17, 1:40:42 AM] Roxy: oh god I’m so fucked for this game everyone knows each other like buddys for life [2/7/17, 1:40:49 AM] Roxy: they just had like a 4 hour call and its still going lol

[2/7/17, 10:31:33 AM] Ruthie: (*) WILL YOU BE TRYING TO SHOWMANCE ANYONE THIS SEASON? (*) [2/7/17, 3:35:43 PM] Roxy: Yes. U.

[2/7/17, 11:03:34 PM] Ruthie: (*) NICHOLAS WON HOH. HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT THAT? (*) [2/7/17, 11:04:48 PM] Roxy: they do that exact star thingy in dreamworld smh [2/7/17, 11:05:33 PM] Roxy: use like [2/7/17, 11:05:35 PM] Roxy: (dance) [2/7/17, 11:05:48 PM] Roxy: (dance) NICHOLAS WON HOH. HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT THAT? (dance) [2/7/17, 11:06:02 PM] Roxy: good lol we good

[2/9/17, 10:49:08 PM] Ruthie: (*) HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT NICHOLAS WINNING POV? (*)

(*) HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN YOUR CLIQUE? (*) [2/10/17, 12:32:42 AM] Roxy: Nicholas is bae and p I my cliwueare there

[2/11/17, 6:25:30 AM] Roxy: everyone isa prisoner [2/11/17, 6:25:37 AM] Roxy: americans and canadians and aussies [2/11/17, 6:25:41 AM] wolfchief1998: you are the only prisoner. [2/11/17, 6:25:49 AM] wolfchief1998: with terrible grammar. [2/11/17, 6:25:52 AM] Roxy: I’m a prisoner caasue I’m into bdsm smh [2/11/17, 6:26:00 AM] Roxy: my grammar is fine I’m just too lazy to type welll

[2/11/17, 8:15:28 AM] Roxy: And I usually theow hohs lol [2/11/17, 8:15:46 AM] Roxy: In embb3 I thre almost all of the hohs [2/11/17, 8:19:55 AM] Roxy: Lelmoo where t f ddo u even live tbh

[2/12/17, 2:08:54 AM] Roxy: LOL [2/12/17, 2:09:02 AM] Roxy: im in a weird mood [2/12/17, 2:09:03 AM] Roxy: like [2/12/17, 2:09:05 AM] Roxy: im hyperactive [2/12/17, 2:09:10 AM] Roxy: and my sexual banter [2/12/17, 2:09:11 AM] Roxy: is like [2/12/17, 2:09:13 AM] Roxy: unstoppablee!!

[2/12/17, 2:10:15 AM] Ruthie: I can tell! :P [2/12/17, 2:12:58 AM] Roxy: ;) you wanna do more than tell? ou wanna feel? [2/12/17, 2:12:58 AM] Roxy: jks [2/12/17, 2:12:59 AM] Roxy: bye

[2/12/17, 3:06:53 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: (lips) YOU NOW HAVE MONO. NAME WHICH HOUSEGUEST YOU WOULD LIKE TO INFECT WITH MONO. (lips)

Chrissa Elijah [2/12/17, 3:07:13 PM] moioonelmo: roxy choose wisely!! [2/12/17, 3:07:34 PM] Ruthie: GOOD LUCK <3 [2/12/17, 3:07:36 PM] moioonelmo: and ill stand by your decision! [2/12/17, 4:48:25 PM] Roxy: Lol [2/12/17, 4:48:43 PM] Roxy: Julia wants me to kiss ellijah so that nic cpuld be nommed [2/12/17, 4:50:40 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: Is that your answer???? [2/12/17, 4:50:54 PM] Roxy: No lol [2/12/17, 4:51:02 PM] Roxy: Its my musings [2/12/17, 4:51:21 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: Let us know your final decision!!!! [2/12/17, 4:54:53 PM] Ruthie: :* [2/12/17, 4:55:57 PM] Roxy: I probably wont say till abput 11 am my time during my break [2/12/17, 4:57:37 PM] Ruthie: Let us know soon! :) [2/12/17, 5:03:34 PM] Roxy: 11 is in 2hrs lol [2/12/17, 5:05:03 PM] Ruthie: :o :o :o [2/12/17, 5:05:10 PM] moioonelmo: #pressure [2/12/17, 5:05:26 PM] Ruthie: Decisions decisions [2/12/17, 5:05:40 PM] Roxy: Lol [2/12/17, 5:06:17 PM] Roxy: If I bite elijah I hurt an ally slightly and I become a sheep of the Julia rae cult [2/12/17, 5:06:36 PM] Roxy: But if I dont bite elijah I hurt the cult and they might go aftdr me for it

[2/12/17, 5:58:27 PM] Roxy: C.p this: [2/12/17, 5:59:54 PM] Roxy: As a fujoshi (google it) I cannot kiss elijah! Id prefferto watch him kiss another guy! So I kiss chrissa cause tgeir lip looks so sensual and invoting my pussy was like bitch if u dont kids this hoe im slappi, u

[2/13/17, 12:09:41 AM] Ruthie: (lips) HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT ELIJAH WINNING HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD? (lips) [2/13/17, 12:26:37 AM] Roxy: Hungry

[2/14/17, 6:59:10 AM] Roxy: ugh coudlnt find anything [2/14/17, 6:59:55 AM] Roxy: elmo T_T [2/14/17, 7:01:20 AM] Roxy: elmo lol i joined an org about a tv show i never seen an episode of lol

[2/16/17, 8:54:05 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: (*) How do you feel about Chrissa leaving? Do you think there will be a buyback? How important is HOH? (*) [2/17/17, 12:52:26 AM] Roxy: buyback maybe idc much she didn’t care for me so meh

[2/17/17, 2:12:53 AM] Roxy: i want a new one each week! [2/17/17, 2:13:02 AM] Roxy: but idk that many ppl lol [2/17/17, 8:12:51 AM] Roxy: i wanna add chris as a guest lol [2/17/17, 8:12:57 AM] Roxy: and maybe to the guest list for main [2/17/17, 8:13:12 AM] Roxy: he isn’t very iconic but he is the leader of the survivor community we play in

[2/17/17, 9:48:22 AM] Roxy: lol [2/17/17, 9:48:39 AM] Roxy: chris i joined an org about a show i never watched and the things are about the show and i got no clue lol [2/17/17, 9:48:47 AM] Roxy: which reminds me that imma have to abstain from hoh [2/17/17, 9:49:05 AM] Roxy: it like a challenge where you gotta put a video in sequence like snces from an episode of glee lol

[2/17/17, 9:49:40 AM] Roxy: lul [2/17/17, 9:49:53 AM] Roxy: i don’t even like glee lol I’m just here for ruthie

[2/17/17, 9:00:18 PM] Ruthie: Hey, Julia, are you going to try for HOH or are you really abstaining? (lips) [2/17/17, 9:00:47 PM] Roxy: um if this thingy requiring me of editing the actual video? [2/17/17, 9:01:01 PM] Roxy: or can i random.org scenes? lol

[2/17/17, 11:22:13 PM] Ruthie: (lips) THERE WASN’T AN ADVANTAGE IN THE HOH RESULTS POST THIS WEEK! DO YOU THINK ONE WILL SHOW UP OR….? (lips) [2/17/17, 11:26:55 PM] Roxy: if it does ill be unable to find it due to my lack of knowledge of glee [2/17/17, 11:27:03 PM] Roxy: also low key if there isnt a singing comp ill cry [2/17/17, 11:27:11 PM] Roxy: and if you do it after i get evicted ill cry harder

[2/18/17, 12:41:09 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: (*) WITH SO MUCH GOING ON IN THE HOUSE WHO DO YOU KNOW YOU CAN TRUST?? WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT TRUST WORTHY??? (*) [2/18/17, 4:00:06 PM] Roxy: Ur FACE

[2/21/17, 4:13:37 PM] Roxy: Lol [2/21/17, 4:13:48 PM] Roxy: I dont like glee cause its too fake for me

[2/21/17, 9:55:31 PM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: (party) I’m here if you’re ready to get punished! (party) [2/21/17, 9:55:41 PM] Ruthie: PUNISH HER ASHLEY SARAH ;) [2/21/17, 9:55:45 PM] Roxy: omg i accepted al lthe punishments in dreamworld lmfao [2/21/17, 9:55:47 PM] Ruthie: (party) [2/21/17, 9:55:49 PM] Roxy: lmfaooo im ready

[2/22/17, 10:54:46 AM] AshleySarah ~Glee Host~: (party) WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SUES TAKEOVER??? (party) [2/22/17, 4:08:58 PM] Roxy: Who? [2/22/17, 4:14:00 PM] Roxy: Oh lmfao

[2/25/17, 8:00:48 PM] Roxy: kurt is my fav so far cause like he is so fationable [2/25/17, 8:00:59 PM] Roxy: fuck you guys i think I’m going to watch glee episode 1 now after this collage [2/25/17, 8:01:00 PM] Roxy: ugh [2/25/17, 8:01:05 PM] Roxy: tbh i rememebr watchign episode 1 before [2/25/17, 8:01:08 PM] Roxy: casue i was curious [2/25/17, 8:01:10 PM] Roxy: never finished it

[2/26/17, 7:17:09 PM] Roxy: ;P [2/26/17, 7:17:14 PM] Roxy: side note i had a glee daydream today

[3/1/17, 11:12:19 PM] Roxy: loool [3/1/17, 11:12:22 PM] Roxy: try to save yourself:: [3/1/17, 11:12:27 PM] Roxy: this is how i tried to save myself [3/1/17, 11:12:36 PM] Roxy: [2/03/2017 2:15:02 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): 2017-02-25, 1:00:39 AM] zach: if you use the veto [2017-02-25, 1:00:40 AM] zach: sydneys going up [2017-02-25, 1:00:41 AM] zach: ive decided . [2017-02-25, 1:01:00 AM] julia rae: why wont u put up roxy [2/03/2017 2:15:04 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): tea? [2/03/2017 2:55:59 pm] julia rae: i don't know why it's just me when literally it was other people's idea [3/1/17, 11:13:13 PM] Roxy: [2/03/2017 1:50:02 pm] nicholas: yeah but you shouldn’t assume you were safe [2/03/2017 1:50:06 pm] nicholas: week 1 i had to come to you [2/03/2017 1:50:13 pm] nicholas: when i was hoh [2/03/2017 1:50:38 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): sorry i just assumed you wouldn’t be foolish enough to nom me cause its such a useless move [2/03/2017 1:50:49 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): and i never had it going for you so you’ve had no reason to either [2/03/2017 1:51:10 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): and the one person you thought i was working with bussed me so idk why you’d wnana believe what he said PLUS he nonmed me [2/03/2017 1:51:42 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): pluses its pretty obvious how bad my social game is in glee bb [2/03/2017 1:52:00 pm] Roxyearl (EMVivor Host): so i assumed u wouldn’t be foolish enough to waste your hoh like that [3/1/17, 11:13:24 PM] Roxy: XD this is my tryna save myself [3/1/17, 11:13:25 PM] Roxy: kekek

[3/1/17, 11:26:50 PM] Roxy: rather [3/1/17, 11:26:53 PM] Roxy: there were 4 noms [3/1/17, 11:26:54 PM] Roxy: *Are [3/1/17, 11:27:08 PM] Roxy: and 1 is a target of a majority pre made in this game [3/1/17, 11:27:22 PM] Roxy: so ill be safe if he doesn’t win pov

[3/3/17, 6:13:22 PM] Roxy: Yes lolits a buyback now [3/3/17, 6:13:29 PM] Roxy: It was 3-3 [3/3/17, 6:13:34 PM] nightoned: ouch [3/3/17, 6:13:41 PM] Roxy: And that hoe nicholas voted me out the hoh

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