#duchess josiana
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thinkin abt this movie again
#the man who laughs#the man who laughs 1928#gwynplaine#dea#barkilphedro#duchess josiana#victor hugo#l'homme qui rit#the grinning man#silent film#silent films#my art
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Off to lose interest in my court duties <3
#my art#Juliette's draft#duchess josiana#glampunk girlies make some noise#gothic lit au#need 2 draw more floating chibis. what's up with that huh
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sketches for a very vague 1960s au
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a perspective on dea and grinpayne: part 1 (siblings)
[image id: screenshot of a tumblr reply by prettyravegirlnightcore that reads “id be interested to know more of your thoughts on their relationship.. like i agree theyre not siblings but sometimes im not really sure Why they arent siblings :o (i love your posts/analysis btw!!)” /end id.]
first off: thank you! i’m glad you enjoy them! and you are in luck because i have a lot to say on this topic. you’re also getting way more than you asked for because i love typing. :)
the post this is replying to is one where i said i thought it was funny they cut the lyrics where osric calls dea grinpayne’s girlfriend, and then in the tags i mentioned that i appreciate the complexity of their relationship but i think it’s clear they’re not meant to be read as siblings.
the other complexities will have to wait for another time (part 2 here), but today i would like to give my two cents to the point mentioned specifically in this reply: dea and grinpayne are not siblings.
i'm going to kick this one off by reminding everyone that my first experience with this musical was by reading the script and listening to the london cast recording, not by watching it onstage, filmed or otherwise. i think i've mentioned it offhand before but it bears repeating for this one because the focus of this series of posts is going to be on analyzing the script. you’re going to get my interpretation of their dynamic before i saw a performance. this is not about version differences, or the way that the actors chose to portray them onstage. i’m sure i’ll cover that eventually (i’m dying to, actually), but not here.
the issue on the table
i think these two are kind of challenging. full disclosure, the first few times i read it, dea and grinpayne made me uncomfortable. so i think that's a valid feeling. you get the two of them being raised together and then immediately a song about how they love each other. and you go woah now hang on. stop the car.
so let’s hit the brakes. there are two assumptions about their relationship present here that, as they coexist, naturally cause some discomfort:
dea and grinpayne are adopted siblings
dea and grinpayne are in romantic love with each other (and possibly have been since they were young)
so, taken together at face value: siblings in love! and to be clear i'm not cool with this personally. i'm not about to defend incest. don't even worry.
what i am about to do is tell you is that not only can you argue they are not siblings, you can also argue that they are not in love with each other, at least not until they are adults, and possibly even not until the end of the show. (and just so we are 100% in the clear the thing i am disputing here is the “in love” romantic part specifically. as the self-proclaimed “#1 beauty and the beast enthusiast” obviously i think they love each other). the latter will have to wait (or click here) so for now let’s just assume that they’re in love and focus on articulating why i think these two are not brother and sister.
argument for siblings
the biggest reason to believe that they see each other as siblings is that they were raised at the same time in the same place by the same father figure.
maybe this reason is enough for you and it trumps everything else. as a general audience member, that's completely fine. that's how you feel about it. a valid gut reaction. however, when analyzing something, "how do i feel about this?" and "how does the text want me to feel about this?" are two separate questions that may have two separate answers. and we are interested in the answer to the second, not the first.
so, how does the grinning man want us to see dea and grinpayne?
well, whether or not they ever refer to each other as brother and sister is going to be a pretty big indicator of that. and... they don't. they both call ursus father, but not once do they call each other siblings. taken in isolation, i still wouldn't give this more weight than them being raised together. i'd call it ambiguous and accept either interpretation (siblings or not) with varying degrees of personal comfort. however, we have to take the whole show into account. and there is more than one romantic couple...
josiana and dirry-moir's relationship is critical to the construction of dea and grinpayne's. they're the only two romantic couples in the show, and i believe they stand in very intentional contrast to one another. (yeah sure ursus's wife exists but. barely. not enough to count.)
josiana and dirry-moir absolutely call each other brother and sister. hell, their first on-stage interaction is this:
Dirry-Moir: Sister!
Josiana: Brother!
They immediately get intimate.
following this, angelica comes in and starts telling them to knock it off. josiana and dirry-moir's relationship is very explicitly an incestuous one. and it is played for laughs. heavily. when it finally accepts them, its with a "well, under these circumstances, i think incest is absolutely acceptable" that is honestly still too absurd to take seriously.
disclaimer: i have not fully read lhqr, nor do i plan to at this time. but i skimmed it enough to notice that josiana and dirry-moir were not originally half-siblings in the novel. this is something they changed this for the musical. and i think they made this choice specifically to make this point and to contrast them with dea and grinpayne.
it becomes incredibly relevant, then, that dea and grinpayne's relationship is treated differently from theirs. they’re never questioned or ridiculed about their relationship by other characters. even ursus, their father, doesn’t really seem put off by them being a couple. grinpayne told him when they were first found that the baby was not his sister, and ursus seems to have taken it to heart. his reluctance to tell them beauty and the beast seems comes from them relating to the eponymous characters (“a little close to the bone, girl”) and when he comes into conflict with the two of them later, it’s over dea encouraging grinpayne to seek the truth, not over them being in love with each other. barkilphedro doesn’t mention them being raised together at all when grinpayne says he wants to marry her, his preferred attack as to why she’s not suitable is that she’s “part of the old life.” now, dirry-moir describes dea and grinpayne as having “a love affair that’s beautiful and true / but more ugly and erotic than a visit to the zoo,” but it isn’t explicit in my opinion exactly which parts are “beautiful” and which are “ugly,” so it’s hard to parse this as a comment on the morality of their relationship. i’m of the opinion that this is just him saying that he thought beauty and the beast was sweet, with the “ugly and erotic” part being because of their disabilities. the rest of the song is him gleefully objectifying grinpayne for his face, so i think it’s a pretty safe reading. this is all of the times that came to mind where an outside character comments on their relationship, but if i missed one let me know.
i think that, in a nutshell, this difference in treatment is the strongest indication that we aren't meant to see dea and grinpayne as siblings. the grinning man establishes very decisively (albeit after "beauty and the beast") by way of josiana and dirry-moir that it believes in poking fun at incestuous relationships. and it just never does this with dea and grinpayne. they’re treated quite seriously, both by the other characters and the narrative itself.
as i said, i think there’s still a lot to be examined when it comes to these two and their relationship with each other. hopefully you will join me next time as i do my best to unpack more of it.
part 2
#the grinning man#burning thoughts#dea#grinpayne#duchess josiana#dirry moir#stay tuned for part 2 in a few days where i will finally talk in-depth about beauty and the beast ❤️
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Low-Res Josiana Wedding Screenshots <3
My Problematic Queen who has never done anything wrong. Ignore the allegations <3
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the raging hedonist herself!
[Image ID: A traditional drawing of Duchess Josiana from The Grinning Man. She is a black woman in a large powdered wig, garish jewelry, and a dress with floral embellishments. Her forehead is powdered and her lips and cheeks are dark. She is looking to the side with half lidded eyes and thick lashes. End ID]
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A quick study of Duchess Josiana and the first try at stylisation of Gwynplaine.
Drawn on 04-25.08.23.
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∞
youtube
Looks like our shuffles both made unusual choices! Like you, I’m going to go with a favourite moment rather than a particular lyric. It’s the end. It’s got to be the end. Gloria Onitiri’s voice is so beautiful and clear and gorgeous. Her range is insane, and this song really shows it off.
This is a song from the incredible musical The Grinning Man (hint hint wink wink click the link). The Grinning Man is hard to describe but please stick with at least until the puppet sequence (you’ll know the one believe me). It’s based off Victor Hugo’s book “The Man Who Laughs” and it’s about a young man who works in a freak show and everything that snowballs from there.
Quick warning, this musical is strange, whimsical, and macabre. TW/CW for hanging, fires, physical torture, emotional abuse (including some pretty heavy gaslighting) and body disfigurement. And puppets. Many puppets.
put a "∞" in my ask box and I'll shuffle my music player and give you my favorite lyric from the song that comes up.
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you can tell what parts I gave up on lmao
#the man who laughs 1928#the man who laughs#barkilphedro#victor hugo#duchess josiana#the grinning man#silent films#silent film#fanart#my art
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idk if ever posted this here? silent film barki and josi from ages ago
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touch: brand new world of feeling (reprise)
aka "brand new world of feeling," companion to "josiana's letter," but i know these songs by their titles on the london cast recording.
welcome to the most overdue version difference post this blog will ever see. i mentioned this number in my other post about people touching grinpayne, and it's more intense than that one. so much so that i'm tossing this one under a readmore with a warning about discussion/description of non-consensual touch, specifically around the neck. that being said, let's get into it?
Bristol:
josiana grabs him on "hold me"
he starts taking his bandage off on "mother father goodbye" and has it off by the time he finishes "ursus goodbye"
josiana jumps into his arms at "dea goodbye" and puts a leg around him. he reciprocates by putting his hand on her leg
josiana kisses him and he kisses her back
he gets on top of her after they're done singing
"forgive me," he says, feeling her arm. (josiana is horny for this and calls him an abomination)
he kisses her while they're on the ground
quake comes in and pulls him off of her. she twists his arm behind his back and walks him offstage.
London:
they stand on opposite ends of the stage (? plenty of distance regardless)
they start to circle each other and get closer on "ursus goodbye"
grinpayne takes his bandage off quickly on the "feeling" of his "we are going to build a world of feeling" and leans forward
josiana grabs him by the neck, shrieks, and kisses him. he doesn't touch her in return, his arms move like he's trying to keep his balance
josiana pulls back with a roar, then kisses him again. grinpayne puts an arm up to the shoulder of the arm she's holding his neck by when she pulls away, but it's brief
it's impossible for me to tell what grinpayne is actually doing in terms of kissing her back because of the camera angle, but he doesn't ever really properly hold her. closest he gets is a hand near her waist right before she releases them and they break apart
grinpayne shudders after she lets him go, and drops to his knees
quake comes in, jerks his head back by the hair, doses him with crimson lethe, then shoves him forward so he falls. she doesn't restrain him as much when leading him out
long story short, grinpayne participates a hell of a lot more in bristol than he does in london. josiana is leading the encounter and escalating things in both versions, but while grinpayne rises to meet her (and climbs on top of her) in bristol, his participation in london is... next to none? it seems like the most control london grinpayne has over the situation is taking his mask off, and, well. here's the only stage direction for this whole situation given in the script:
She grabs Grinpayne, removes his bandages, and passionately kisses his grin.
and it doesn't get any easier for him from there. he calls out for dea directly following the above stage direction, a new addition. it's written that quake pulls him off of josiana and then gives him enough crimson lethe to knock him out (also by yanking his hair) and then has to carry him off.
what does it mean?
brother i wish i knew. grinpayne getting on top of her is really the only thing included in the script that allows you to read this as something resembling a consensual encounter. aside from that, they really solidified and pushed this more invasive version of events seen in london.
i will tell you to take the stage directions with a grain of salt, however. unlike the dialogue of a script, they're generally kept as suggestions and are subject to change by whoever is directing the show for that production. what really counts is the text that is spoken (or sung. or played. the score is also a part of the text), and what does the text tell us about grinpayne and josiana's relationship during this scene?
my first exposure to this show and this scene was through the script (so you can imagine my surprise and confusion when i saw the bristol version for the first time LOL), so i can tell you my experience with it. even without imagining any actors onstage, it was evident to me that the two of them are not on the same page. it's apparent from the way that grinpayne is singing and josiana is not that grinpayne is not present in the same reality that she is.
grinpayne is here because he thinks josiana has seen him. he wants to be loved for who he is, he thinks this is the moment where it's finally going to happen. his "world of feeling" he's reaching for is being loved properly for the first time (that he can remember).
immediately from josiana's line we know this is not the reality of the situation. she wants him, from the very second she laid eyes on him. this is not understanding. this is hunger. she says "i love you, freak." her "world of feeling" is no different from the one she has been living in already, aside from the novelty of grinpayne's disability.
grinpayne's little echo of "love?" is the only line of his (aside from him calling out for dea) in this whole scene that isn't sung. and i had trouble for a while reading in a tone of concern, since it is a pause in his singing, but i don't think that's correct. the lines that follow don't make sense if you do it that way. it's and hope and excitement that drives him to launch into the next verse.
it's a pity, then, that it goes so poorly for him.
that's the thing, though... let's go back the london version of staging for a second. everything about it seems to be yelling "bad experience! bad experience!" i mean lighting designer rob casey even put a strobe over it. the original lighting designer richard howell only used strobes for grinpayne's face reveal at the end of "i am a freakshow" and his face getting cut open during the finale. it might just be me, but she literally grabs him by the neck! she tosses him aside when she's finished with him and he sinks to his knees! it's not good! and yet. we still are obligated to believe in josiana's "redemption" for lack of a better word at the end of this song ("josiana's reply"). we still have to make sense of grinpayne's lines in "the smiling song":
o josiana
what did she see?
could i see dea
the way she saw me?
this would make more sense to me as a callback to how things went down in bristol, but these lines were added in london. (he's too busy having a shirt put on him in bristol at this moment. i'm not joking.) like, she sees you as a piece of meat! you didn't even hear her little solo at the end where she talks about being transfigured! how was this not a traumatizing experience for you! i'm at a loss on this one, honestly.
#the grinning man#burning thoughts#grinpayne#duchess josiana#version differences#i mean the only way i can try to straighten it out in my brain is attributing it to grinpayne's naivete about romantic relationships#still doesn't sit right with me though#plus i don't think we are ready to talk about my utterly esoteric takes about grinpayne and dea's relationship. don't worry about it#anyway i think i deserve hazard pay for the amount of times i had to watch the london version of the scene for this post
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Ruslan Gerasimenko as Barkilphedro
(feat. Galina Bezruk as Duchess Josiana)
Russian production of The Grinning Man, 18.12.2022
Photos by Julia Gubina
#been in theatre lately so the fixation is back i am so sorry i think i might spam viy stuff later on#tgm#чкс#человек который смеется#ruslan gerasimenko#the grinning man#musicals#russian musicals#barkilphedro#l’homme quit rit
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@andessence starter for JOSIANA
This was not at all the kind of place that Orin would occupy if he had any say in the matter. While he did have a taste for comfortable living, setting foot inside a castle was a completely foreign and mostly unpleasant experience. But what was he supposed to do? Turn down an offer to treat the duchess for...whatever it was that was ailing her. The men who had been sent to fetch him had been tight lipped on that matter, which was maybe a red flag, but Orin had been in no position to deny the invitation. And even with his discomfort as he was led down the long hallway to the Duchess' room, it was fascinating to see how royalty lived.
It was gaudy and garish and imposing...all things he didn't hate individually but that were starting to feel overwhelming.
As they arrived at the door he was unceremoniously pushed inside, though he reflexively resisted, throwing his escorts a dirty look before the door was shut behind him, his presence announced in a way that almost seemed rushed. Orin furrowed his brow, removing his hat as he took a step into the room of his own accord. Any misgivings he had would need to wait as he had a patient to attend to.
"Your grace," he began, giving a small bow and doing his best to remember his manners. He hardly practiced them since most of his other clients were well beneath his social standing, but in this case he was sure he had no choice but to play nice. "You sent for me?"
#*slams fists against the table* It's TIME#andessence#andessence 'Josiana'#(At the Office) IC#I'll figure out a tag for this AU later lol
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so for context my friend and I were watching The Man Who Laughs together for like the third time and . Duchess Josiana is . A Character
#the man who laughs#silent film#kinkshaming is my kink#she hears a clown honk its nose and moans#she’s badly down for the sad clown
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