#but well it's canon that luke used his charm and good looks for kronos' ends | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

notesofarichlycolorednight · 6 years

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I've seen a popular post on tumblr saying "I'm done with the female villain using seduction to get what she wants,and the male one using violence to the same end. How about we gender flip that shit - the guy charms someone,and the girl threatens to throw the poor victim off of a building?" or anything alike. I totally agreed with them,and my mind went to Drew Tanaka and Luke Castellan. Okay,Drew is a daughter of Aphrodite(goddess of beauty and love),and Luke's a terrific warrior.

Cont. However,that post fits their canon MO’s perfectly, IMO. In The Lost Hero,Drew used intimidation and fear to have people doing whatever she wanted,and was described as having cold,piercing eyes. Luke,while being a badass warrior and a big guy,his biggest assets are his looks and charisma. Silena is an example,and perhaps Kronos chose Luke as his second because he was well-liked. Even Drew being Aphrodite child makes a plus to me,since it makes her half-sister to Deimos and Phobos… ☆

i can agree with you on luke, and somewhat on drew, anon

and i can agree with that sentiment, as well. but also, tbh i think the sentiment is a little surface level, but that’s a whole other beast that i won’t address, bc that’s not really what this post is gonna be abt. and let me be clear, there’s nothing wrong with it being surface level

so luke, we’re good. i think kronos picked luke bc the titan knew that luke was, in fact, very good-looking. even with the scar. and even tho i do think luke had to actually work to charm ppl, he still could. not to mention both annabeth and percy had crushes on him (no one describes another guy like percy did luke unless they have at least a lil bit of a crush on the guy, fite me)

annabeth, of course, had deeper ties

but man, percy sees luke and right off the bat, despite being a little off-put by the scar, percy continues to describe luke is very pleasing terms (for the lack of a better word). even when he knew luke was evil, in som percy calls him an evil male model,,, so like...i’m just saying

anyway

the bonus with luke is that he’s a great warrior--best swordsman in the last three centuries. that’s a high title

drew, on the other hand, i can only half agree with. while i’m glad that rick didn’t go that “sexual” route with her just seducing people to get them to do her bidding, i don’t know that she’s entirely in the “girl threatens to throw someone off the side of the building” class either

for one, it is implied that drew has seduced ppl in order to break their hearts, which is fine. not like, morally fine, but in the sense that it’s okay to age-appropriately have drew “seduce” ppl for her own gains as a character in general. i’m kinda going for “let’s not slut-shame ppl” energy here, which is why i say age-appropriate and put seduce in quotes. so i hope that makes sense

for two, i wouldn’t necessarily be afraid of drew talking me into walking off a cliff or smth. lbr i can’t say how much i’d be affected by charmspeak in general, but we know that charmspeak works better when you’re attracted (or at least find the person aesthetically pleasing) to the person and when what they’re saying is smth they already believe. the magnitude of how well it works probably depends on how much they believe whatever the charmspeaker is telling them/trying to convince them of. with drew, it’s hard to tell her limits, following what we do know from piper, since ppl were scared of her. idk how hard she’s have to try if ppl feared her. it seems like it’d be harder? but that’s a tangent

for three, i also do think her being a child of aphrodite does automatically pull her toward “seduce enemy” territory. now, as you know from previous posts, i want to abolish the stereotype that love only means romantica/sexual love and beauty only means some arbitrary western standards of “““““beauty””””” but it is important to remember that stereotypes are automatic and prevalent responses to things, so it does communicate some of age-appropriate “seduction” on drew’s part

when i read, “girl threatens to throw someone off the side of a building,” i think of the scene in...i think it was the first avengers movie? when cap and black widow are on the roof of a building and the guy they’re--jk, it was the winter soldier, wasn’t it--threatening is like, “you’d never do it cap” and cap is like, “yeah, but she will” and black widow just fucking punts him right off the side of a building without a second thought

drew’s in a grey area between “seduce the villain” and “throw villain off the side of a building” bc she’s not using age-appropriate “seduction” most of the time, and it’s obvious she’s instilled quite a lot of fear in the campers at chb, so i’m not denying that

now am i saying that she has to be physically violent to fit “throw villain off the side of a building?” not at all. and you could def argue that her manipulation is violent in a sense that it’s abusive

but i wouldn’t say you can equate it to the outright violence that men often show in media (which has a lot to do with toxic masculinity, but again, tangent). so, she’s probably closer to “throw villain off the side of a building” but still in that grey area, not to mention her being a child of aphrodite and the stereotypes involved are also pulling her toward the “seduce villain” side

however, i do think if rick made her totally “throw villain off the side of a building,” even with just her charmspeak, we’d be straying into her being a true-true villain territory (she’s definitely an antagonist and not nice, at all in hoo; but like we’re talking the kind of monster that would goad someone into killing themselves). and while it’d be interesting to have a child of aphrodite, who’s a woman, be the antagonist and/or villain would have been dynamic and very interesting, there’s quite a lot to unpack and juggle with if we kept drew as drew and just put her into an antagonist and/or villain role (for example, her being japanese)

that’s all i can think of to say at the moment. thanks for your patience on this. i’m on break, but i’m also working on my thesis p much nonstop so i can propose finals week (wheee)

it’s late here, so i man not be entirely cognizant, but here’s what i got for ya

thanks for sending this in!!

FEED ME SEYMOUR

#oh god for shame! i do not even know your name #notesofananonymousnight #asked and answered #luke castellan #drew tanaka #pjo meta

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notesofarichlycolorednight · 6 years

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Hi,pal! I'm loving "It's the perfect story"! However, the subject I'm talking about doesn't directly to the fic. By what I know, people don't hate Silena because she was the spy,it's more like they think her being seduced/manipulated into doing it is detracting to her character. Many posts say that's very insulting to teen girls, or her cause should be something like "her cabin was being disrespected"(out of character IMO, but I'll talk about it later)...

Continuation. Or “the demigods were being mistreated by the gods”(not a bad one,but Silena didn’t really feel the worst of the gods IMO. Not like Luke, Chris or Tori in the fic). People are entitled to their opinions, but I disagree. About the “disrespected cabin stuff”,Silena is defensive in a blunt, straightforward way when it happens. Examples: how she wanted to fight the Huntresses when they said love was worthless;or when people were surprised by her magic knowledge,and she looked offended.

Cont. Besides, those behaviors show that Silena can be quite passionate and proud, what probably made her vulnerable to manipulation(her romantic nature didn’t help). Besides, Silena herself thought she was saving lives. I believe Luke’s words would sound truer to her if she cared about him than from a dispassionate perspective. Besides, if Luke managed to lure Percy to near death with a friendly smile and soda,despite Percy’s instincts saying no,I believe he could do it to Silena…

Cont. By what I read, your only issue was the age. However, I think that was something like “death of the author” in canon,as she didn’t get one. In fact, I rather like the idea of Silena being an older camper,including than Charles(if 18 years old girls date boys in their 20’s…),both in canon and in your fic. In your fic,it could make her Tori ’ s peer. In canon,it’d fit the whole “role model” stuff we had going on HoO.

what’s up dude! thanks, i’m glad to hear you’re enjoying it!

that’s how i interpreted it when i read the books (or how i remember interpreting it, at least, i haven’t read the series in a while) like, being the spy meant she was a traitor, which is also a comment abt her character (i.e., may she’s not the greatest person–for the lack of a better word–bc she was a traitor). when clarisses declares she’s a hero, i assumed it was supposed to be juxtaposed to her being a traitor. which is a roundabout way to say that the ultimate end is the same, whereas the perspective is different? but i can see where others are coming from–that the campers would be more mad bc of the fact that she was easily manipulated by luke, rather than her being the spy

i guess i can see where ppl are coming from regarding it being an insult to teen girls (i’d really like to see those posts tho, bc i actually haven’t seen anyone talk abt that–i somehow manage to avoid discourse like we’re two opposing magnets, my d-list x-men power), bc it plays off the stereotype that teen girls are so boy crazy, they’re easily manipulated by any good-looking guy that smiles in their direction. it doesn’t help that she’s a child of aphrodite. and what i mean by that is, i think, ppl often water down what aphrodite is the goddess of. when ppl say, “she’s the goddess of love and beauty” ppl often think she’s the goddess of, “being vain and romantic/sexual love” (not true btw, fite me, i will gladly jump into that discourse)

but anyway, back to my main point, i can see how it may play off a teen girl stereotype (rick is good at doing that sometimes, which isn’t entirely his fault, bc like i said abt toxic masculinity, it’s so ingrained in our society, it’s hard to unlearn and we often fall into those stereotypes if we’re not fully aware of them and consciously thinking about them), but i also don’t entirely agree with that argument, either

now i could be wrong, esp since i haven’t read any of this discourse, so i haven’t read ppl’s reasoning or arguments, but it sounds very surface-level White Feminism™ and what i mean by that is that there are more grey areas to this argument, okay, so put away your pitchforks and put out your torches and, i mean, also that this argument is coming from ppl who want to seem like they’re woke, but then turn around and continue to do or say things that are insidiously bigoted

like i said, i can see how it plays into a stereotype, but if we’re going by rick’s canon (which we totally don’t have to, but for this argument’s sake we are) she’s young and impressionable, luke is handsome and charming–if another young person were in her position, we’d probably see the same thing. young ppl are easy to manipulate, they just are. they’re still learning abt the world, and how it works, and that maybe not everyone has good intentions. not to mention they’re still trying to find themselves, and they look to peers, mentors, and ppl who are respected (for whatever reason) for cues to how they should act and think. it’s like trying on clothes or taste-testing foods–they’re trying out opinions. if they don’t like the “taste” of an opinion, then they learn, grow, and change. some ppl instantly connect with an opinion (which could be bigoted or not) and not explore further, or could be sheltered and just not have the opportunity to experience anything else.

the opinion here: the gods are bad. the person she’s looking to for guidance: luke. plain and simple

and, as you say anon, percy even fell for luke’s charms (despite the warning signs!! and percy is most def Not Straight, so luke was also using that fact against percy as well, whether rick luke knew it or not). so, ya know, there ya go

now, i think rick chose a child of aphrodite, and a girl, bc he thought he was turning a trope on its head–you’d never expect (from the stereotype of what aphrodite stands for) silena to be a spy, to work for kronos of all ppl titans. do you see what i mean? i think he was going for an elle woods effect–except in the polar opposite direction. the ends is the same, where this girl who is often underestimated (like elle) turns out to do something no one expected of her (in silena’s case, being the spy, which takes a lot of guts, nerve, and smarts–the opposite of what ppl expect from aphrodite, based on a reductive stereotype)

and that’s where the real issue lies, not that she was a teen girl, but rather some of the decisions the author made under wrong assumptions

i agree that the alternatives aren’t as sincere or make as much sense. silena didn’t experience a whole lot of strife regarding her mom or the gods in general, so she’d have no reason to hate them as luke does–she’d have no reason to be the spy for luke if he were to simply use that argument to get her to kronos’s side. and maybe she would’ve joined kronos under “her cabin was being disrespected,” however, it was’t being disrespected by the gods themselves, right? not like the minor gods, not like nemesis or hecate. the disrespect comes more from the ppl around her–the ppl who assume the wrong things abt aphrodite when they hear the words “love” and “beauty.” so that alternative reason doesn’t hold a lot of water if you really think abt it

i also agree with you: that her passion and pride made her more easily manipulated, and also that luke’s words would mean more coming from a more passionate and personal perspective. luke fed her lines that played into her character (like how kronos fed luke lines that played into his hatred for the gods). if she felt passionate abt helping save ppl (and it’s coming from someone she likes, someone she looks up to), then she’d be the spy for sure. if she had a crush on luke, more for him to use against her, right? that’s just how it goes sometimes, ya know? her crush are her rose-colored glasses, add that on top of “you’d be saving lives” and, well, luke’s got her wrapped around kronos’s finger

yeah, the age thing is a big sticking point for me, just bc based on the timeline of things, she’s several years younger than luke (which make his kiss, in my story, really gross). if beckendorf was going to college during tlo, he was probably at the least 18, and silena was probably around the same age. by this time, luke is 23, so that means that she’s abt 5 years younger? is five years a huge deal between older ppl (like mid- to late-twenties and beyond)? not at all. but with younger ppl (teens and early twenties), it’s a HUGE gap in age, and a HUGE deal.

but like you say, i think rick is hitting that point of “death of the author” (esp with more recent events…btw, jason is totally alive and well, and if you think or try to tell me differently, then you can meet me in a denny’s parking lot at 3am), so we can totes not follow canon and age both silena and beckendorf up. not to mention, there’s no specific age that ppl go to college (just in general most ppl starting college are from 17-20) so it’s completely fine for beckendorf to be going to college at 22, 23. and a 2 yr age difference (regarding beckendorf at 20, dating silena at 18) is totes better than a 5 yr difference for sure

i really like tori and silena being peers, and i if i had been more comfortable breaking canon (and knew what i know now, then), it would’ve been fun to write (but eeeyyy, it’s fun to think abt, so there may be headcanons in your future regarding this). finally, you’re right, i think it would make “silena as a role model” so much more powerful if she had been/was older in canon

thanks for sending these in! i had a lot of fun talking and thinking abt all the points you brought up/made, and i hope to continue this discussion, if you want!

#oh god for shame! i do not even know your name #notesofananonymousnight #asked and answered #silena beauregard #pjo meta #washingdad writes

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