“What do you make of the claims that Robert and Aleksander have made about Ilnar and Tõnas, and the sense that ZA/UM has been stolen from them?”

“In the beginning, when we became friends...to me, he was a god. I was very young, very influence-able. I sort of admired him to a degree where my own personality was eaten up.” – Argo Tuulik, Writer at ZA/UM (responsible for Cuno, The Hardie Boys, Evrart Claire, and more)

Bonus:

Investigation: Who’s Telling the Truth about Disco Elysium? by People Make Games

I believe the workers who say Kurvitz was difficult to work with, especially Argo since he’s known the guy for a long time but now I have to wonder if those people now regret speaking in it.

Do I think they regret what they said? I can't say for sure because a) I cannot claim to know, let alone guess, exactly how they feel about this mess since I am not them, and b) unless someone decides to come forward about it we likely will never know.

But what I can talk about is what we do know for certain.

I've spoken on this before in a post I made about the misgivings I had with Chris Bratt's take on the ZA/UMa (ZA/UM drama) where I expressed that I felt like the video overexaggerated some of Kurvitz's behaviors and actions to make him appear like some kind of villain when we know he was slowly being frenzied by the investors for months on end. Now despite that, it still does not excuse the fact that Argo Tuulik, Kaspar Tamsalu, and Petteri Sulonen were hurt by him regardless of the circumstance (which they will resolve with him on their own time if they so choose). But as you’d also know, Tuulik has stated in his interview that even though he has his personal gripes with the man, he still greatly admires and respects Kurvitz which is a sentiment Kurvitz has echoed about all his former colleagues in an interview with Jacobin.

I can 100% understand where Tuulik is coming from in his statements about Kurvitz. It's always going to be a difficult adjustment when the person who you've been friends with for years becomes your boss because it suddenly creates a power dynamic that didn't exist before. At least in Kurvitz's case, who obviously didn't have any experience in leadership positions, it's no surprise he became such a shitty boss towards his friends and coworkers since the man clearly had no clue how to properly lead a team, was demanding perfection from everyone, on top of his stress levels being exacerbated from constant conflict with the meddling investors.

Now, if I were to speculate on this issue knowing all this, I'd say at the very least Tuulik probably feels like he's in the same boat as Kurvitz given the similarities of how they were dismissed from the studio. Whatever comes of this, whether it'd be reconciliation between the two or officially parting ways for good, is up to him. Honestly, I just hope he isn’t feeling guilty for bringing up both the good and bad about working with Robert Kurvitz in his interview. It was very brave of him to do as well as provided us outsiders with a window into the dynamic he had with Kurvitz. He couldn’t have possibly known the investors would one day retaliate against him and anyone else who voiced their dissent against their authoritarian rule of the studio. His only mistake was blindly trusting the people who spent years systematically othering Kurvitz and co in order to split the group apart so that they could be further manipulated by them.

People Make Games looks into ZAUM, Disco Elysium

Interviews folks inside and outside the company too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIGA8taN-M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du4Zjiv7bQs&t=0s (the CEO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrN0KXeQ0v4&t=0s (Writer) My takes under the cut based on the main video, haven’t seen the full interviews yet:

Kurvitz signed off his rights to Sacred and Terrible Air and Disco Elysium to the company

An inner circle existed inside the company centered around Kurvits, which sought to work on the sequel BUT: 1) they 'wanted to see the game's source code and considered making a new company around it', 2) upset lot of Kurvits' friends with preferential treatment to the inner circle, 3) alarmed management but 4) management had already formed Newelysium Ltd to handle the sequel separately from Zaum London/Zaum UK/Disco Elysium UK to satisfy Linnamäe's conditions to sell his share to the CEO Ilmar Kompus

Kurvits' friends and coworkers think he's a shit leader and manager and he's got that cult leader charisma without proper people skill to manage them and they resent him for it + moneymen capitalized on this to sow more salt

Kurvits was unrepentant in the video, he did not think he was at fault towards his friends and coworkers

Inner circle at large is digging in and not admitting fault

The moneymen still remain shady about the structure, management, shifting around employees before they'd be entitled to benefits

 Harrier Du Bois is the latest and worst self-insert of Kurvits down to pat. Self-destructive rock star hated by colleagues

Alex..

I'm hearing you out. but please imagine my sighs as I do

IM. i dont have any good explanation for myself and maybe its just my love of DE thats endearing me to all these characters but. i like chester hes a funny guy and that art of him that those tags were on was . well it was good. okay. like. absolute fuckshit comic relief idiot (and of COURSE his heterosexual life partner dont think im forgetting about torson here) is fully my MO!!!!!

like youre talking to the gal who has an affinity for NPCs that barely get like,, any screen time,,, i wrote a 7k fic about fuck and piss,,,, we barely know a single thing about these dudes and baby that leaves A LOT OF REAL ESTATE . hes an idiot he has internalized homophobia he has hidden depths he had to go to the lazzarth bc he got really bad fish poisoning once he and his best friend are iconic buddy cops hes a funny guy

even when i say all that hes like. B tier for me lmao (which should really demonstrate just how fuckign. obsessed i am with my SSS+ tier blorbos)

https://videogames.si.com/news/disco-elysium-dev-zaum-layoffs-last-writer-speaks-out

Last Disco Elysium writer laid off by ZA/UM speaks out

“The fish starts rotting from the head,” says Argo Tuulik

“The mask has slipped from the face of capital. What remains at ZA/UM is a cold, careless company where managers wage war against their own creatives, where artistry is second to property, and where corporate strategy is formed by an arrogant disdain for their own audience.”

Alright, I'm going to attempt to hopefully clear up a few misconceptions and assuage some worries about this Disco Elysium sequel and the general situation at za/um right now.

I see the shitshow that is unfolding on social media, and as someone who has known about this whole disaster for over half a year now I'd like to weigh in on it and provide some context for everyone who may not know the full story.

First off, Robert Kurvitz was fired at the end of last year. December 2021. As is strongly implied on Martin Luiga's twitter, the reason for this is greed (calling them "money men" and "crooks" and other similar statements for like, months now), and the executive producers, Tõnis Haavel (who has previously been tried for fraud) and Kaur Kender (who has previously been tried for... other things.) screwed everyone over. Kender provided funding for the game, as the majority of the original za/um cultural association did not have the financial means to.

The original za/um cultural association consisted of Robert Kurvitz, Jüri Saks, Martin Luiga, and Aleksander Rostov, originally founded in in 2009. The group, along with Argo Tuulik, played many different ttrpg campaigns over the years, several of them set in Revachol (centred around Precinct 41), and slowly built the world up from there. Kurvitz released the book The Sacred and Terrible Air, set 20 years after Disco Elysium, back in 2013* but the novel flopped, and it was decided that they would make a video game. Rostov has always been more than just an artist for Disco Elysium, as you can see from the dev threads he frequently updated promoting the game, as well as on his personal instagram, tumblr sketch blog, and several other accounts he used while the game was first gaining traction.

*The most notable credits for TSaTA are as follows:

Author: Robert Kurvitz, Editor: Martin Luiga, Cover Design: Aleksander Rostov, Worldbuilding: Robert Kurvitz, Martin Luiga, Kaspar Kalvet, Argo Tuulik. Helen Hindpere and Kaur Kender also appear in the credits.

I say this because some of the staff at za/um are now accusing fans of being unable to overcome the "auteur theory" of it all (ie. seeing Kurvitz as the singular creative mind behind it all) but the fact is that they have now lost not only the original ttrpg campaign's game master, The Sacred and Terrible Air's author, and Disco Elysium's lead writer/director (Kurvitz) but also their lead writer for the Final Cut's political vision quests (Hindpere) as well as their "co-founder" and art director/designer (Rostov). They are all CREATIVE LEADS, and not just well known only for their reputations/titles.

Luiga himself (who originally broke the news) was an Elysium world builder and provided much of the pale and innocence-related lore. He was also a part of the original tabletop campaigns (Chester McLaine is his player character!), but left midway through Disco Elysium's development due to creative differences (or as he says, "bad vibes" at the company). He is credited as an editor, but claims to have written a good chunk of the text in the game, including much of Joyce's dialogue about the pale. I have seen people discredit him due to his early departure, but Rostov also tweeted out confirming that he, along with Hindpere and Kurvitz were no longer at the company, with no additional comments. Rostov also posted a drawing on his twitter several months back depicting a man jerking off over an NDA, so take that as you will.

So what does this mean for the future?

Luiga has said that he has hope for the sequel, which could either mean that the script was finished or nearing completion before Kurvitz was fired (likely, and fits a pattern in the industry) and it's just a matter of finishing the actual game development aspect, or it may be that he has hope for the original za/um creatives to be able to re-acquire the IP.

I think it's worth pointing out that the original pitch for "Disco Elysium" was actually "The Return", and Disco Elysium was meant to be the smaller-scale prequel to introduce players to the world. Considering that the team was planning on this sequel all along, I think it's possible that a large amount of the "original" game was written years ago, so it's not all that far fetched to believe that the basic outline may be finished, or even that a large portion of the script already exists. Keep in mind that there are a large number of writers for both Disco Elysium and The Final Cut, and it may still be possible to work with a base that the others provided. We have no idea how far into development the sequel may be. Of course, proceeding without three key members of the original team is kind of a kick in the balls, and imo really quite disgusting, especially with how long the company has been keeping their departures secret (dishonesty is not a good look lmao), but it may still be canon, true to the authors' vision, and genuinely a good game in the end.

Argo Tuulik, original Elysium world builder and part of the old ttrpg campaigns, as well as a main writer on Disco Elysium, is still working at za/um. Justin Keenan, former writer on The Final Cut who wrote the political vision quests alongside Helen Hindpere, still works at za/um (and has been promoted to lead writer, according to his LinkedIn), as does Kaspar Tamsalu, who painted several character portraits, (René and Gaston) and worked as a concept artist on the original game. Plenty of the original creatives still remain. The sequel could very well still be in good hands at the development level, even if the higher ups are "crooked".

So, in conclusion... If this game comes out and they still haven't worked things out with Kurvitz, Rostov and Hindpere? Honestly... fuckin' pirate it. But it is very likely it could still be a great game that plays out as it was meant to! All that being said, FUCK za/um as a company, don't support them through Atelier or their merch store. I wish everyone luck if they do attempt to get the IP back, and I sincerely hope this fan pressure will help get things moving for them.

Some scattered thoughts on the People Make Games Disco Elysium video:

-I have a massive amount of respect for the amount of work that went into this investigation; there are so many threads to keep straight and I imagine those interviews got very awkward at times. 

-There are really two big threads in the investigation: was the IP stolen from Kurvitz and co.? And were the claims of misbehavior by Kurvitz valid and worthy of leading to his firing? 

-Kompus really does give politician-like answers that definitely make him seem sketchy. Are you really going to say that you’ve been a businessman for over a decade and you’re not going to document a discussion of buying stock in any concrete way?

-To me, it definitely feels like some gross, not above board things happened on the financial side of things and I do hope things get figured out in court.

-Argo Tuulik felt like the most relatable person interviewed; it really seems like he got caught in the middle of so many different forces and both had some significant issues show up in his relationship with Kurvitz and still has respect for his creative ability.

-I really do feel for the employees who are still at the studio, especially because so many of them did incredible work. It’s still going to be tough to trust anything ZA/UM-related going forward and I’m not sure how much this video does to negate that.

-It sounds like making the game was hellish for everyone and there were definitely some differing perspectives (once it was finished and people were really confronting their burnout) between “ah, the game is done and now we can rest” and “the Final Cut needs to happen right now!” and it led to some massive problems, especially with COVID lurking in the background.

-It feels like management dropped the ball in a million ways by not having deadlines shared accurately, no one really running the show in any meaningful way, and people being totally unable to communicate about issues, and it sucks that people like Kender have basically disappeared and are probably never going to be held accountable for any of this stuff.

-I have known and worked with people who remind me of Kurvitz and found them both inspiring and super frustrating. It can be dangerous to be both a person who is incredibly talented but not always well-loved, especially when things start to go awry, because you’re going to be the first one burned.

-There’s such an air of “we didn’t know what we were doing” coming from a variety of people involved that both lent itself to the game being as amazing as it is and also led to massive issues down the line (I was slightly shocked that at no point in selling the IP did Kurvitz talk to a lawyer). If it is all true, him trying to take the source code and a small team and start over again somewhere new makes sense on an “I need to create and this is the easiest way to start over” level and is also incredibly misguided if you’re concerned about abiding by agreements and respecting the feelings of the people who work with you.

-It feels like so much of this could’ve been avoided by him retaining the rights in some manner and being able to go off on his own and do something new while also letting the people remaining at ZA/UM get a clean break from him.

-I feel like it’s pretty rough to equate “this dude was mean to people and unpleasant to work with and in over his head” with “this dude deserves to lose the rights to the world he founded a significant portion of” and I hope people generally don’t feel that way about it all, but...

-Every act of creation, especially one involving a big team, is a kind of miracle, and I’m glad we were able to get Disco Elysium at all.

hello can u share the disco elysium video?

it's the People Make Games video on the scandal behind Kurvitz, Rostov, and Hindpere's firing (I think the first half is a useful recap and the interviews are interesting but I don't like the focus on Kurvitz's behaviour with everything else going on)

Argo Tuulik at 56:42:

"As far as I know, the idea to turn it into a game came from [Kaur Kender], as well as the idea, like a prototype for for- Harrier is actually Kaur's father, who was a murder detective in the Soviet Union Milit- the Militia.

And this scene where the inspector arrives on a scene and the stench of a corpse is so bad that they can't keep their gut in and throw up, this is also something that happened to Kaur's dad"

I'm sure if you follow the ZA/UM situation you've seen the documentary by People Make Games, which revealed that the staff are the real ones in this situatuon. The interviews with the workers are obviously the focal point, but the conversation with Argo Tuulik (Robert Kurvitz's best friend of 20 years and a writer at ZA/UM) stood out to me the most since he described Kurvitz as a "cult leader" but not exactly a good director. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true he is an eccentric person who was very rude towards other staff in the company (saying their work looks like shit and telling them to redo it) but it doesn't mean he deserves to lose all of this work over this. Being a bad boss and coworker is awful, but it doesn't mean that the money laundering/shares manipulation is deserved because of that.

That being said, in response to the staff members coming forward with claims about the... let's call it inappropriate work ethic Kurvitz wrote a super vague email about beliefs and making art and criminal activity of Kompus and Haavel, which really confused me. I wish he elaborated or just said "I can't talk about it we're still in a legal battle".

Also FUCK YOU to whoever sent death threats to Kaspar Tamsalu and workers of ZA/UM. I can't believe I even have to say this, but the staff and developers are as important as the writers and artists we know as the creative team behind Disco Elysium, they don't deserve to be treated like that.

(source) ZA/UM has gotten rid of nearly every single one of the Estonian writers who worked on Disco Elysium, the last two standing of the group being Argo Tuulik and Siim Sinamäe. They also appear to be looking for devs explicitly located in the UK or in New York (1, 2, 3) as well for their projects moving forward.

While we're here one year late with Frittte, the other day I saw an old pic of Hindpere in a rabbit onesie, joked "lol now we know where Jamais Vu's furry Harry agenda came from", and as I was looking for something else entirely (as these things go) I found out that the leopard scene does in fact have her name on it. Furry agenda real and true!

So out of seven Jamais Vu scenes I could find (some additions, like the hemp, don't have their own dialogue hub), two are anonymous, one could be... Tuulik? "Arx" for Argo?, and four are Hindpere's.

Argo Tuulik spoke out, he even mentioned the PMG doc changing dynamics.

I saw, I'm not surprised, and his redundancy feels like some form of retaliation on the investor's part because Tuulik was the only one who dared to speak positively about his time working with Kurvitz in comparison to Petteri Sulonen and Kaspar Tamsalu who only had negative things to say about him. He also is the only one of the three who were interviewed to publicly say that he thinks Kurvitz should regain access to the IP rights that were taken from him.

This doesn't feel like that big of a leap in logic to assume the investors were peeved that people did not receive the PMG video like they thought we would, and immediately changed the rules on Tuulik to punish him for his "transgressions" since he in turn became one of the biggest sources us fans used to poke holes in Bratt's arguments which I'm sure they also weren't happy about.

He unknowingly put himself in the line of fire for us and for that we must be grateful. I wish him a speedy job search and a lifetime of gainful employment.

A second interview with Argo Tuulik (who was in the PMG doc) came out a few hours ago.

Can you send me it

finished the PMG video and am feeling pretty depressed about za/um and the prospects of another DE release. everything seems so fractured and everyone involved seems hurt and it just doesn't seem like there's any salvaging the situation, even if the legal questions were to be resolved

maybe i'm being pessimistic, but...it all feels pretty bleak

the only hope i have is that the people left at za/um who have been there for a while (like argo tuulik and justin keenan) can maybe make something good out of this. but like...what would it even be? ugh idk

it makes me so sad that a game full of such beauty has caused so much strife for so many people. i'm just rambling incoherently now skfdhfsjdfh

shaking rn because argo tuulik just confirmed that the son of lung is real . the cop who went so deep undercover he doesnt remember hes a cop is a true thing that did happen in disco elysium its not just an ingame story. he was a SATELLITE OFFICER named fucking. KIT MIMOSA. this is him (sorry the image is so crunchy you can find the full on his twitter)

his partner's name is furioso roberts. they're members of the 41st. this is so fucking awesome.

oh so the collage mode images aren't even canon lol

[Image description: A screenshot of a tweet by Argo Tuulik. He comments: "100% not canon 😂 Although might've inadvertently inspired a canon, a Collasium-like if you will -- Willy Wonka and the Unknown, no? Genre-breaking nonetheless. Heart too." on a youtube video by Jamrock Hobo, about the collage mode's hidden photos. The video's thumbnail has "Disco Elysium's last lore" written on it.]

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