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Plotholes of FF15; the ultimate edition

It’s come to my attention that with the plot being as wonky and contradictory, many (including me) find it hard to decide what’s a plothole and what’s simply a part left vague by the game. I’ve made a list of all the plotholes I could think about so far which is..uh.. quite the long read. I’ve wanted to have it though while waiting for the new DLCs.

1. Ravus is made responsible for the Niflheim army’s huge defeat in Altissia and sentenced to death, however we can see him well and free walking into the Emperor’s throne room in Zegnautus Keep. Since at this time almost the entirety of Niflheim has fallen victim to the starscourge it’s possible he escaped somehow and came to finish the Emperor off, but the game explains nothing.

2. The starscourge seems to be an illness progressing either very fast or very slowly, possibly at a pace chosen by Ardyn himself if he so wills it. Emperor Aldercapt is mentioned to have infected himself with the scourge shortly after Ardyn’s appearance at his court which was 30 years before he transformed, meanwhile Ravus turned into a demon mere minutes, maybe an hour after infection. Again the game explains nothing

3. Ifrit got infected with the starscourge by a mysterious man who is given no name but who can only be Ardyn. If Ardyn apparently can kill and infect gods, why did he not infect any of the others so they would abandon Noctis and fight for his cause instead? We know the Empire has killed many gods including Shiva whose dead body still lies where its fallen on Niflheim grounds.

4. The gods die but they also don’t. Both Shiva and Titan are canonly dead and you can see Shiva’s dead body, however both are also alive spiritually (?) aiding you in battle.

5.  Ardyn is the only creature who didn't die from the starscourge, it just made him a godlike being instead. Why?

6. Bahamut delivered the prophecy to mankind telling of a king of kings to be chosen to save the world, a thing the gods want to happen because they have sworn to protect mankind - still every single one of them except Shiva and the Fulgurian try to kill Noctis. That means despite Bahamut revealing to Regis that his son is the chosen one when he was only a toddler, apparently noone else believes it and everyone doubts his ‘chosen-ness’. Get your shit together, gods.

7. Ardyn was known and worshipped as an extraordinarily selfless man who healed millions of the starscourge, however that led to him infecting himself eventually which caused the events of FF15 and the world being plunged into eternal darkness. Lunafreya has also been given the power to heal the starscourge - by Bahamut, if you believe the cosmogony which states he descended to Eos to handpick a maiden to be the first oracle. Are we to assume Ardyn was a prototype gone wrong who then was cast aside in favour of a new healer type? Or does Luna maybe infect herself slowly? Which leads us to the next point...

8. Lunafreya is sick. A cutscene taking place in Altissia has her weak and pleading to Ravus to take the ring and give it to Noctis, because she fears she will not be able to any longer, because her body is already failing her. We are however never told what this weakness is and it is literally never shown except in this scene. Is it the ‘prize of the covenant’ Ardyn mentions to know well, also in Altissia? Does doing her oracle duty sap her of life (sounds ineffective)? Or is that prize the starscourge? Or is the ring somehow killing her like the ring of Sauron??

9. For Bahamut to give the oracle her powers to heal the scourge, obviously he himself must be able to heal the scourge, however he never does.... was making Ardyn wait for 2000 years until Noctis could sacrifice his sad life for him a sick form of entertainment? Or can he just not heal Ardyn somehow? Whatever it is, Bahamut heals noone ever, not so sworn to protect humankind after all, I guess. See number 7.

10. Ardyn is often referred to as a chosen king, however we are explicitely told he was forbidden to ascend. Many believe this means the crystal never chose him and that seems to be what happened regarding his grudge against the crystal especially. What relativizes this again though is the cosmogony itself: “There once was a man born a mortal but blessed with powers divine. Conjuring a collection of glaives he dispelled the darkness plaguing our star. As a reward for his efforts the gods granted him a holy stone” - The Crystal, which he was to guard at all cost. Cleansing the world of the scourge in his time is a thing Somnus The Mystic is known for. That means the Crystal was given to mankind AFTER Ardyn became ‘the lost son’. Except the cosmogony was rewritten to exclude Ardyn which means the cosmogony is not a reliable source of history and lore at all. Seems like it, because being written out of history (again) is a thing Ardyn is concerned over when he dies. However what seems to be another fact making all of this more confusing is that according to Ardyn Somnus, if he got the crystal or not, himself was not chosen by the time he had Ardyn executed. Possibly he never was. Possibly noone ever was except Noctis who seems to be Ardyn’s successor in all ways possible. In their last fight Ardyn refers to Noctis as the chosen king, but ‘a second rate chosen at best’ seemingly referring to himself who was definitely sheduled to be chosen 2000 years ago. Maybe all of this is intentionally confusing and contradictory, but due to the missing pieces it is literally impossible to figure out the truth so it remains a plothole: was Ardyn meant to be the king of kings? Was he supposed to be ‘just’ the first king? Was Ardyn given the crystal or was Somnus? We will never know until maybe Episode Ardyn hopefully.

11. Ascended Noctis is - apparently - immortal. Ardyn who is pretty much the only character at this point who we can assume to know his shit explains his motives to Noctis as he is being pulled into the crystal the following way: “Killing you as a mortal will bring me scant satisfaction.” Evidently the King of Kings is immortal, at least in a way that he can not die a natural death.

12. If Ardyn was a prototype of the King of Kings who failed maybe the starscourge did not kill him because he was always meant to be immortal? Ardyn really is the gods’ fault, isn’t he? Pure food for thought though. You can fill a book with Ardyn theories due to the massively wonky plot of FF15.

12. Ascended Noctis is maybe not only immortal, but definitely more powerful than the gods. The gods can’t kill Ardyn. They can’t restore light. Bahamut actually explains to Noctis inside the crystal that his ascension will elevate him above the gods. We are never told why Noctis has to die to fulfill the prophecy though and if you accept Episode Ignis as being a valid alternate universe, a what-if path where all mechanics of Eos are still in effect, then very clearly Noctis never really had to die, it is just what Bahamut tells him. Maybe the ‘blood prize’ that needs to be paid is really only the gods’ hubris of not wanting another deity that is stronger than them ruling their little SIMS world of a kingdom. Like the blood prize Nyx pays for using the ring. Bunch a’assholes. See number 9.

13. Now on to Prompto. Dear god, Prompto is a gold mine. Prompto says in Zegnautus Keep that he always knew his barcode was the sign of an MT and that he is really from Niflheim, but it’s not something he could just tell his Lucian friends. So Prompto apparently knew MTs are somehow made from humans, however in his own Episode he seems shocked by the reveal.

14. However did Prompto know anyway if he was rescued as a baby? Did his step parents know and tell him later? Who the fuck are his step parents and why does this not have any role at all in the game?? If his step parents knew, who else fucking knows about MTs? Did Regis know? Deemed a plothole because if Regis did not know then his wall is apparently not as safe as he thinks for Niflheim people to sneak in and raise an MT there and if he DID know then he really oughta have known he was sending an MT with Noct who could betray him at any time which was actually supposed to happen in early scripts.

15. MTs start out as babies, however all of the Prompto clones we see in Episode Prompto are adults, which means they either give them about 20 years to grow into a demon core which is unlikely since they’ve had MTs for a long time and in huge numbers or the clones just grow super fast. Prompto however doesn’t age super fast. Something here is either lazy coding or very, very fucky.

16. What actually is an MT? Clearly MTs are mainly made from metal and not at all a human or demon in a suit though it is still a common misconception in parts of the fandom. They don’t bleed when they die, instead they give off electric sparks and show dozens of broken wires next to miasma. Their bodies are decidedly human looking, they can be programmed which is an integral part of their function lest they become violent and uncontrollable and they also move decidedly robotic. Our best guess at this point is that the demon core is the essence of a demon condensed into a ‘battery’ that is shielded from light by its purely robotic body. According to the files you find on MTs the reason human clones are chosen for the process is that they do not suffer a loss of ego and do not go insane which normal humans did when they used regular citizens. I assume that means the clones do not have a sense of self since they never were self-aware to begin with. They became conscious already being MTs. And then we have Episode Prompto where apparently an MT fears death which clearly indicates an ego. Or maybe that was Prom’s imagination, after all he also fantasized his childhood self…

17. Ardyn seems to know a lot about Solheim technology to be able to give Niflheim the ability to create advanced robotic soldiers or the tech to develop airships… quite a savvy chosen king for a time in which any and all Solheim technology was shunned by the gods as heretical. Either Ardyn never was such a holy messiah or very, very much of that Solheim tech was still present in everyday life in Ardyn’s time… provided the gods were cool with their king meant to lead people back to faith using any of it. Since, you know, the gods hated Solheim. That’s why they made Lucis.

18. The Ring according to the cosmogony is the sign for someone fit to rule, however also according to the cosmogony the ring can be weilded by everyone who’s worthy, not only the king. We see this confirmed in Nyx and Ignis. That strongly indicates not everyone in the long line of the Lucis Caelum was worthy either and in fact there are only a very short number of kings resting inside the ring including Regis who very obviously wore and used it. It seems to me we are led to believe putting on the ring is always a risk even for a Lucis Caelum; they might be burned and killed just like everybody else. That appears to fit the obvious fear in Noctis to put on the ring which he then only does because Ardyn took all his other weapons. The kings inside the ring don’t seem to see things the way the cosmogony does in any way condescending Nyx for being ‘not even a king’ - so what is it really? 

I’ll stop here though I’m sure I could think of more if I tried. The truth is, FF15 could have done with some more proper development time to clear out many of these issues. I’d love to hear more of these if anyone has some more!

This is copied from my actual blog

(What follows was originally posted at Amy's Free Library of Rock, my actual Blog-blog as opposed to a Tumblr that I only usually REblog stuff on, but after @theselfexpress posted something yesterday I thought it might be good to have on Tumblr, too).

I'm kind of wincing at my own title. You know STORY is my favorite thing in the whole world. You know I'm all about the importance of stories and trying to separate the word "myth" from the concept of "falsehood." Story helps us give meaning to our existence. But we also sometimes use it to justify what we WANT to be true, even when it isn't. It's funny that this was a major theme in this season of Sherlock, too. I'd like to share my thoughts on that, sometime before it becomes too far past to be relevant. I'm also working on two different GeekMom articles at once (possibly three. Come Monday, if I don't get any more time to myself to type before then, definitely three). I also have (as usual, but at the same time worse than usual) a complete wreck of a house to deal with, a bunch of Christmas decor to put away, and a whole lot of commitments taking me out of the house, not to mention the day to day commitments of a family that somehow expects I should feed them everyday (even though they don't like much of anything I cook for them). There is SO MUCH I have to work on, and I haven't even mentioned settling back to do the final handsewing on my new butterfly brocade dress while watching the series of Soundbreaking I finally managed to get hold of, because that's pure leisure time. But I digress. (Often). I really want, right here right now, to address current events, yet again. We are at a scary moment of history. And if you disagree, this is probably due to the stories you are telling yourself, not the truth. And if you think the people who disagree ARE fully aware of the truth, you are also telling yourself stories, not seeing the full truth. The sad, frustrating, dangerous, and frankly somewhat traumatizing thing is, forces have transpired to fog the truth up for us. Gah, I know, that's vague. But that's the point. It would be nice to be able to point directly at Putin and blame the rise of totalitarianism on the Russian propaganda machine, but that's just part of it. It's easy to point to the new administration, which is doing it blatantly:

Re Spicer's lies, this is from someone who worked in a past administration. Important read. pic.twitter.com/XrjLJHRAGL

— Anna Rascouët-Paz (@rascouet) January 22, 2017

But again, that's just part of it. If we all called these things as they are, they wouldn't have any power. But the fog isn't coming out of a single sfx machine that we can just unplug. A spun story here, an appeal to People Like Me there, a information miasma without enough librarians, and countless individual stories-we-tell-ourselves being presented as truth in echo chambers among people telling similar stories, and you end up with a GREAT SMOG pouring in from countless directions. I'm super-sensitive to this fog, which is why I said it's somewhat traumatizing. It's traumatizing for ME. I don't like my mind being messed with. It makes me angry. It makes me frustrated. It makes me really really sad. And I feel like Cassandra when I see it happening and I can't get anyone to believe me (who doesn't already see it happening themselves). Let me show you how these things happen, using a tragedy that happened down the street from me this past fall as an example (skip the paragraph if you don't want to read a tragedy). Here is what happened, strict facts. A man who had been abusive and outright threatened to kill his pregnant wife showed back up to torment her and threaten her life again, even though she had a PFA against him. She called the police. Police showed up, too late, he's already shot and killed her and now he turns the gun out the window and shoots two officers, killing one, badly injuring the other. The police shut down the area and go on a manhunt for the rest of the morning, only to find the guy had killed himself right after. 'Kay. That's what happened. Here is one way the story could be presented, and was: the story of the police martyrs cut down in the line of duty by a cop-killer. This angle is still in evidence in our town-- the blue-and-black ribbons are still up all over, the signs that say "We stand with you, Cbg PD!" and "We salute our fallen officers." This angle really resonates with people, which is how my little neighborhood ended up making the national news. Implicit in this coverage is a "Those darn criminals keep killing our fine police officers!" message. And it goes farther, it gets turned into "Why do you keep accusing the police of brutality, can't you see THEY'RE the victims, THEY'RE the ones that keep getting SHOT DOWN because your lies about police brutality make people hate them?!" Whoa, slow down here. The guy shot them because he was a violent maniac and they were coming to arrest him, not because he was part of some cop-killer club or anything, lying in ambush just waiting to pick one off. Officer B truly did die in the line of duty, not out of some political demonstration. Now look at the way the story was NOT presented. I was surprised when the story made the national news because the sad fact is domestic abusers kill their partners ALL THE TIME, and you don't hear it on the national news unless one of them's famous or something really unusual and gruesome happened or, say, a cop got killed. Is this woman, and her unborn child, and all the other victims of domestic abuse, somehow less important than the police officers who were trying to save her? Is her life worth less? Why is her death not a national tragedy? Oh, sure, the police were in a way innocent bystanders, just doing their jobs, and they got shot. But isn't she equally innocent? Isn't it a tragedy that she's had to suffer at his hands and words all this time, that she tried to get help and protection and it ultimately didn't work? With all the black-and-blue ribbons all over town, in just one place do you see a memorial to her-- on the electric signpost of the drug store where she worked. Her coworkers love and miss her. But everywhere else she's forgotten. Now imagine what would have happened to the story the world saw if I change just one detail. You see, this woman was an immigrant from Egypt. Her killer husband was an all-american white boy with freakin' american flags waving off the back of his truck (I used to gawk at it, it was something). WHAT IF their ethnicities had been reversed? What if the killer was a Middle-Eastern immigrant and his wife was *gasp* blonde? If you don't think this would change the way this story was told, you haven't been paying much attention.

Y'all better make this VIRAL since any other media wont do it pic.twitter.com/A668T8CqmF

— ㅤ (@turntsIut) January 21, 2017

We all have our own Normals, based on where we grew up, where we live now, who we were raised by, and who we were raised among. When we see just a snapshot of another Normal, it's easy to jump to conclusions. Because this, people in that Normal must be this other thing. So we get a bit repulsed by the Others and retreat deeper into our own Normals, where everyone tells the same stories about What Normal IS that you do So we automatically frame what we see in terms of what we already consider normal. The story of the tragedy in my neighborhood takes on a different meaning depending on how you feel toward police officers, what your experiences or knowledge of domestic abuse is like, or how much you know about the culture to which any of the interested parties belong. We group people and experiences into "like me" and "not like me" categories in our heads, and when evidence goes contradictory to it, we rewrite our understanding of reality to fit. Sometimes we change our opinions. But other times we hold tighter to what we used to know as true. This is true across the board, but people who are still optimistic about our new president have had it particularly bad, lately. They were so excited to get a GOP president-- "GOP! Anti-Obama and Anti-Hillary! That means he's LIKE US!"-- that they fail to see that he's actually NOT. Oh, he's not a Democrat in disguise either, all right. He's not a normal president, period. But he must be good because he says things about Making America Great Again, and that's exactly what we want to hear, so....

Via @ddale8: Trump fans' favorite things about him are the stuff they made up in their own head pic.twitter.com/Jw6Xp7QClc

— Daniel Radosh (@danielradosh) January 19, 2017

Particularly fascinating are the folks in these pictures who admire his Godliness but wish he'd stop tweeting. I suppose because every tweet makes the UNGodliness stand out instead. It makes it hard for them to keep telling that story to themselves. If he keeps it up they may be forced to change their minds about him, and they'd rather not, so just shut up, Donny, and let them keep their fantasies, okay? Don't run away from reading me here yet, my conservative friends! Don't get complacent, my liberal ones! The Left has their own pretty stories, too. The most problematic one is lumping all President Trumpsterfire's supporters together with the worst of them. They've all made a serious mistake-- yes, you KNOW I think you've made a serious mistake, people who voted for him-- but not for nefarious purposes. Yes, they may kill people by taking away their health care, yes, they may invalidate people's marriages, yes, they may condone the persecution of millions of innocents because of their heritage or genetics, but they DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY. They know different Stories, they either don't HAVE all the facts or they can't make the facts fit into their Stories so they respin them as falsehoods. A few of them--a few-- really ARE hateful, bigoted scum. But when we call the REST hateful bigoted scum, too, it just makes it harder for them to listen to the actual truths you're telling that they need to hear! I've seen too many conservative friends bristling away from the movement toward justice because of this. I found the pictures from the Womens' Marches really inspiring yesterday. Then I saw a tweet from a conservative friend in response to someone who'd said LOOK HOW BEAUTIFUL EVERYONE UNITED EVERYONE IS WELCOME! "...not the Pro-Life ones," she replied bitterly. OUCH. I know what she means. I have no doubt that Pro-Life women WOULD have been and WERE welcomed into the marches, but a lot of Pro-Choicers have a problem how they talk about the Pro-Life movement-- they, too, lump people who genuinely believe in the sanctity of life with misogynists who just want to control women's sexuality. This is a particularly frustrating issue for me, because I grew up in a very actively Pro-Life extended family-- I've done the March for Life myself!-- and I thoroughly understand my family members' actual feelings on the matter, and I truly consider myself Pro-Life, even though from a political standpoint I am technically pro-choice.

The sign, read the sign, people!... meaning, mostly, my extended family...! #PROLIFEFORREAL https://t.co/IjEu4zvAg4

— Amy W (@rockinlibrarian) January 22, 2017

I don't think the picture shows up in the quoted tweet, here's the one I was referring to:

An outpouring of people with a lot at stake. #WomensMarch #WomenMobilizeNC pic.twitter.com/8FasRdksR4

— Zeynep Tufekci (@zeynep) January 21, 2017

I've had a real hard time at church since just before the election. Remember I said I hadn't lost my faith in God but was pretty disillusioned with the Church? Our pastor, he's a great guy y'know, but the Sunday before the election he said something like, "Yeah, we have to make a choice, and it looks like we have to make a choice between 'Bad' and 'Worse.' I can't tell you who to vote for, but I will say when you get down to it that the most important thing is protecting the Sanctity of Life, and we have to vote to stop abortion." And I'm just SERIOUSLY HAVE YOU EVEN LOOKED AT THIS GUY, HE IS ANTI-LIFE UNLESS IT'S HIS OWN! The fact that the Pro-Life movement has become SO FOCUSED on overturning Roe vs. Wade that they can no longer see that liberal movements have actually done far far more to REALLY protect the sanctity of life (I can't find the article I read about this last summer that uses facts to support this claim, but here's another article I found while looking for it that at least expresses the idea in more detail) is just... so depressing, really. And if we'd stop being so PARTISAN about it, we could SEE this, and actually WORK TOGETHER to truly protect LIFE. I think the most important thing we need to do is follow Haymitch's advice in Catching Fire, and remember who the real enemies are. I know we find it hard to forgive each other. I know we're angry, we're all so angry. But let's make sure we're focusing the anger in the right place. I saw someone say, "Trump didn't divide America!" -- true, we've already been divided. I've seen others say, "We need to stand together and put faith in the election process and our new administration." Or, the opposite, "We CANNOT play nice anymore. The Nazis weren't defeated because the Allies had a nice discussion and they all shook hands." BUT. A totalitarian government just LOVES when it can pit its citizens against each other. It LOVES to be all "if you're not for us your against us." There are people TRYING to get us to hate each other, pointing at all the worst actions of the "other" side instead of the many many more right actions. WE CANNOT LET THEM DO THIS. Civil war destroys so much. A revolution, on the other hand? If we all, ALL, take a good look around and see who the enemies REALLY are? It's rough when we're still divided over the stories we're getting, but the fact is the majority of people are GOOD PEOPLE. And when we stick together instead of turning on each other, we can beat this. I don't know if this whole quoted tweet will show up, but...

White women need to be the meat shields of this resistance https://t.co/SFyi332Ca1

— Goldeen Ogawa (@GrimbyTweets) January 22, 2017

You see this is the one she was quoting:

You don't think that maybe JUST MAYBE the police treat people differently when large numbers of white women are present?

— Carrie (@PlainJaneFoster) January 22, 2017

That original tweet was a little bitter, about how privileged white women are that they don't have THEIR protests broken up by riot police (when there isn't a riot). But Goldeen takes that and says LET'S USE THIS. You see what we can do when we ALL stand together? We can't let anyone try to divide us any more. We need to speak up even when we aren't the direct victims of an injustice. We need to listen to each other and not just assume that, oh, this is only about THEM, or that, oh, I don't see a problem so obviously there isn't really a problem they're just overreacting. If we open our eyes and hearts and stand together, we can keep the real enemies from their nefarious plans. We can make right mighty, instead of pretending might makes right.

And the fact this was worldwide. It's not just about us. It is about humans and the Earth.

— LibraryElfReads (@LibraryElfReads) January 22, 2017