TLOZ translations always seem to be a bit shitty. I still see people talk about the weird translation of the Demise monologue at the end of SkSw. I think someone said that Demise was more general with his statement, as in there will always be forces from the demon tribe fighting against the light or smth? Not specifically "us three will always fight". (I've read it a few times, but hard to remember, sorry.) (On the topic of SkSw, I kinda dislike how much it impacted theories within TLOZ, some theories are really cool, don't get me wrong. But now, even games that existed for years before suddenly are being pushed to fit with the lore presented in that game. Ganondorf being the best example: He no longer is his own character who did bad things because of his own will and actions, it's now "He did it all because an evil curse made him do it. He had no choice, he was born as a vessel for the demonic lord." The implications that "the curse of Demise" also would mainly go for the already vilified race of the Gerudo, and make their one male an evil warlord is already kinda... yeah... no. (Not to mention that there are other demon lords throughout the franchise that have nothing to do with Ganon.)

Ohh speaking of this I recently saw this post that did a good translation of that very moment, and pretty much confirms what you are mentioning anon; that it's basically a promise of that cycle coming back moreso than Demise himself coming back (especially since his actual and definitive death is a big deal in that game).

But yeah, I agree it has taken a huge space in the way the series is thought about. I pretty much completely missed that hard turn, as I couldn't play Skyward Sword when it released and wasn't super into Zelda afterward anymore (I had gotten too edgy.... 2011 was the year where I got obsessed with every horror videogame in existence basically except for Resident Evil for some reason I could never get into that series ANYWAY WAY off topic........), so coming back a few years later had me very ???? puzzled about how the theories had reconstructed themselves around Hylia and Demise and endless cycles (it's not that it wasn't a thing before, but I wouldn't say it was as much a Series Trademark as it is now).

But yeah. Ganondorf having his own motivations makes him immediately stronger as an antagonist, especially since his deal is quite complicated all things considered.

I am having a thought about how a lot of Zelda villains' motivation is a sort of rebellion against nature. I have scratched enough digital paper about Ganondorf's situation, but like... Minish Cap Vaati is also very much motivated by his refusal to remain small and whimsical and seize power instead of staying in his lane (and then he gets horny in Four Sword so, maybe let's not go there), Zant is.... Zant, Hilda in A Link Between World has been cosmically punished for trying to reject the Goddesses and create a world on its own terms --like SERIOUSLY this is HORRIFYING I feel like we don't talk enough about how utterly nightmarish of a reality that paints for Hyrule as a whole-- Girahim is devoted but fights for the side more or less destined to lose... It's interesting how Hyrule is hostile to change and anything that threatens the statut quo.

(then you have the occasional Majora and Yuga, whomst I dooon't think really fit the above category --to their full credit! and then you have Bellum, who is..... a blob...... And I don't remember enough from either the Oracles game or about Malladus to put them in either category, I need to replay those games)

Hyrule really has this frightening quality to it when you stare at it for too long: that your two only options are to either graciously submit to your assigned cosmic role, or fight it and become darkness incarnate in some way. A Link Between World showed, quite starkly, that trying to escape that binary choice is *not an option*.

yesterday, me n E made pork roast for the hiuse. i had to go get more pork loin cuz i fucked up and let the firstvatch of pork loin rot in the fridge BUT thankfully its still a relatively cheapish cut.

anyway. it was fun! it came out a lil dry but still good, hooray. ten wegot drunk and watched movies (the unbearable weight of massive talent, El Incidente). El Incidente remains the most interesting take on cosmic horror that I have ever seen.

anyway. today i feel like shiiit! woo...

still, managed to run to the store for pepto bismol for Jn (urgent), and get ny raised bed planted. I'm *monstrously* late on my raised bed stuff, and if those cucumbers and beans grow into fuck all it will be an absolute miracle. still, its better than having nothing planted. And the radishes/turnips/herbs will hopefully come to some kinda fruition.

Also, the neighbors ive been talking with brought over some cherry tomatoes and flowers from their garden???? so sweet oh my god. also these tomatos are incredible. i have to pur them in a salad or smth... maybe tmo

still feel like shit tho. im proud i got at least smth done despite that but... idk if ill manage to do any writing today like i wanted to.

finished with slay the princess. it was neat. best thing i got out of it was inspiration for a fully different kind of story.

(spoilers, btw)

maybe i'm just not feeling this type of cosmic horror. idk. "don't try to rationalize that which defies logic" the game says and keeps on logicking itself without committing to saying anything concrete in case it could be too weird or stupid or smth. not that it needs to do what i want. it's just... i mean, it did tell the story it had set out to tell with just minor wobbling towards the end. it wasn't bad. it just didn't have the oomph it would have needed to speak to me.

maybe because the romance ended up kinda basic "because Love" kinda thing. maybe that too was because... the routes you took ultimately had very little effect in the endings. it would have been a nightmare to actually make it all count, of course. but still. i'm left feeling a bit empty, after being hooked so strongly by the premise.

now the fully different kind of story. what with the always present empty shackle and how the narrator wants to keep you in there forever, i fully expected the pc to be the actual beast of the end. and the princess to be bait, a lure, a part of the trap that's like. tragically gaining true selfhood through the repetitions. man, it could have worked with the true nature of the narrator what with how he had separated and made tangible the gods by giving one of them his body (i mean, assuming how the reflection decays into nothing and is then revealed to be how the narrator looked like). like it could have been a case of ooh in his hubris he had birthed or even become the end of everything and then had to try and contain it! the decision to preserve or end a world that wasn't already naturally ending would have felt way more... consequential. more relevant.

idk. it would have been a bit more spicy and complicated that way. as is, the narrator side of the story is... rather weak and simplistic. not bad, but not Enough for me.

hm. i guess my main gripe with the story that was actually written is the lack of... coming together. the game tells you the shifting mound is the totality of all the potential vessels, but that's not what's shown or experienced. you literally can take the third option of leaving with just one vessel. and you leave the voices behind, or they hate you, or they act as your posse. an insane moment of "you are the friends made along the way" was right there! it would have worked with the themes! the high romance of creating each other in your own image! how we exist not alone on our own but in the intersections where we meet each other! giving up control and preconceived notions and the safety of an omniscient view and instead going out to discover the world and yourself and each other! accepting that there's multitudes and things unknown! all this could have been delivered better, or at least with more and wilder pathos!! hell, some of the route endings did just that, where did that energy go in the finale?? such a missed opportunity not to have the voices coalesce and voice the previously unvoiced lines and take the decision making away from the player AT LEAST in the ascension ending. c'mon!!

still like a 7/10 even from the pov of my personal enjoyment, tho i doubt i'll ever get back into it. i do admire the skill and effort it required to pull it off. the ending also was serviceable, and the parts where the narrative got a bit muddled can be overlooked if you're not afflicted by Chase The Logical End Points Of Implications disorder. 10/10 for giving me fuel for mansion of the end (a story that's been on the backburner)

-10000 points for not having the mc be a dragon for maximum princess/hero/dragon symbolism and shenanigans (i am biased but also Right)

so, Continuing: (esp. wrt S3 ending [spoilers to follow ofc] )

when they meet the fox-masked man / Angela Gresley in the mirrored hall, they (AG) speak in the same voice as the DM & as the narration - no inflection or ‘Own Voice’ given: leading to an obvious linking between them as a #Power, and the power of the GM - or maybe the (presumed) narrative immunity of the GM

as w the GM, they've been there before the story ever Could begin*, and have so been present throughout, tho not necessarily centerstage

all to say,, their godliness/immunity - the fact they Are Bigger & more Terrible Unknowable Things beyond human comprehension, v cosmic horror stylee, is maybe Textually or in terms of play(?) the same as the GM: Godly, & beyond in-narrative/PC ken

(could this on a level as the GM being the same(?) as them? smth out There thats got its own demands/agenda? the inescapability of narrative roleplaying games feels a lil different from the inescapability of a weird cult always turning up murdering ppl whenever u go on holidays tho tbf)**  

“You have come at last, I have waited for years. You were meant for more than simple curiosity, let me show you. They are coming. They are coming back, and we must be ready”

^ this is very ~prophesy? - ill admit here that i don't recall necessarily a whole lot of S6, nor the answers given/implied in it: BUT this whole bit does also fit w the weird time problems going on, esp here in this house, but in gen w the cult as well (++ some of the weird stuff w joy; i guess we’ll come back to it, lmao)  

 “I know you’ve wondered, I find this eases the passing.”

^ i just like this bc its just a Practical answer?  “the tooth pulling means Nothing lads, its just Easier to spit out a whole person if you've not got teeth in the way”

* “I have swam with you. I have swam with you before you crawled out onto the empty soil”

** this also doesn't necessarily mesh well w what we’ve 1/2 suggested already w things to do w imperialism/politics, getting #Tangled Up here ! :SSSS !