#I'm tagging this transandrophobia and called out the existence of trans men and mascs in particular | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

cardentist · 6 months

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I'm not blaming the op of the original post, or trying to imply anything about them as a person. and I don't want to single out this post in particular, because the issue is an broadly reaching trend rather than any one individual happening to write a post in five minutes one time.

but I really Really wish we'd stop and think if it's a good idea to say "girls turning into boys makes them inherently less interesting" on the transgender website

picking a privileged group to be the butt of a joke because it's lighthearted when nobody's actually getting hurt by doing so Only Works when everyone within that group is actually privileged. making jokes about how men are lesser than doesn't Actually affect the people who are actually within power, but Does chip away at the confidence and comfort of marginalized men who are In these communities to be exposed to it.

and the issue isn't about any one joke or poorly worded discussion in particular, but it's difficult to articulate why it can feel so alienating and unsafe to have things like this be so common within my communities without sounding ridiculous or risk being made fun of for not being able to take a joke. because the framing of implied privilege makes it easy to twist those feelings alienation into the entitlement that's assumed with men taking issue with being the butt Of a joke.

I simply think "this type of person is inherently lesser than" should be reexamined and thrown out as a talking point, even in a lighthearted context. because there will always be vulnerable people within those groups who already Hear that they are lesser than for existing

#discourse #transandrophobia #this is more of a vent post than anything but it's thought on my mind #I'm tagging this transandrophobia and called out the existence of trans men and mascs in particular #because I am those things and that's the tag that I use to talk about those issues that affect these things #but this is really about all marginalized men #all men who've been made to feel lesser than in general really

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ephemeraljellyfish · 3 months

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why is it so inconceivable to you that the transmisogynistic guys who talk about transandrophobia would be behind the ask-harassment? why are y'all allergic to taking any sort of responsibility for the sexist stuff that your peers say? you can't in confidence deny that transandrophobia truthers had anything to do with that shit. you cannot use your status as a "marginalized group" as a defense when transfems are literally more marginalized than transmascs. newsflash, male privilege and female oppression still exist in trans people

like, okay, i don't appreciate the condescension here but i'm going to respond to point by point because this doesn't cross into "anon hate" territory yet. and i'm a believer in hanlon's razor.

honestly i don't think this ask deserves a well-thought-out response, but i'll give one anyways:

why is it so inconceivable to you that the transmisogynistic guys who talk about transandrophobia would be behind the ask-harassment?

i'm going to assume you refer to all the big transandrophobia blogs who post in the tag. and it's not inconceivable to me, actually. it's not inconceivable to other pro-transandrophobia blogs either, if you look at the response from yharnamsnewslug. (i've got other examples too.) i've seen only one transmisogynistic response to the ask in the transandrophobia tags and that person was criticized. heavily. but they deleted the comments from transandrophobia blogs telling them they were being transmisogynistic.

additionally, i just tend to abide by the rule "innocent until proven guilty"? i also don't believe in collective punishment. even if a few transmisogynistic guys did this, i really don't think the concept of transandrophobia has any less merit—and let's be real here, calling people "transandrophobia truthers" IS a way to discredit the idea. but i also find it conspiratorial to assume a bunch of transandrophobia blogs organized to do this. why is this the instinctive belief? it feels like a leap in logic to me. are there provable steps you took that led to this belief?

why are y'all allergic to taking any sort of responsibility for the sexist stuff that your peers say?

i don't know if y'all implies i'm also one of the trans guys implicated here. i'm nonbinary. and i've seen trans men/mascs call out transmisogyny. i block transmisogynistic people, so i don't have the post to show you anymore, but it's likely still in the transandrophobia tag if you wanna look for it, but OP deleted all the posters calling them out. (also see the post i referenced previous question for an example of calling out transmisogyny.)

you can't in confidence deny that transandrophobia truthers had anything to do with that shit.

i don't deny that it could be literally anyone. but why are we leaping to accuse anyone at all? shouldn't there be proof? i wonder, if the people blocked the anon, will they still see the "transandrophobia truther" blogs they haven't blocked yet? would that prove who didn't do it, at the very least? i'm spitballing ideas here. do we care to get to the bottom of who's guilty or are we looking for a group to blame?

you can't deny that it might be a shit-stirrer, so why are we holding a group of people accountable without proof? there's no "proof" in the idea that everyone has capacity to be transmisogynistic lending itself to blaming transandrophobia truthers specifically. if you go with that line of logic, then implicate everyone for the anon.

you cannot use your status as a "marginalized group" as a defense when transfems are literally more marginalized than transmascs. newsflash, male privilege and female oppression still exist in trans people

i'm going to blow past your use of "male" and "female" because honestly, as a nonbinary person i'm unnerved when people use "biological sex" categories in discussions about trans people. this made me consider not answering. this screams "TERF" to me. but let's offer you the benefit of my doubt. (i don't think the transfems you're trying to defend would be comfortable with these terms either btw. screams exorsexism too.)

i mean we all knew it would come to this final point. this idea that you hold so dear—that there's a "more marginalized" group—it's an unsubstantiated one. there's no easy way to tell who is objectively "more oppressed." do you really think some transfems don't also wield their marginalization like that? that there aren't bad actors in literally every identity under the LGBTQ umbrella? i personally don't believe marginalized people are absolved of sin, i think their marginalization makes it easier for them to lash out because they've been hurt. i also know their pain is very real and needs discussion. that goes for all marginalized people.

since you believe in tiered oppression and listening only to the most oppressed person in the room (i don't believe i can change that), tell me, who's more oppressed? a white lesbian transfem? an east asian nonbinary person? a black transmasc? a two-spirited Navajo? any queer identity that exists outside of "Western" countries? queer identities within religious minority groups? no, really, are transfems more marginalized across the board? or is this just a dispute between white people that i shouldn't be a part of?

i'm fully aware of the marginalization dynamics at play here. i think you're the one who needs to introduce more complicated ideas than "men bad and women good." also guess what? saying that transfems are the most marginalized person in the room leads to tokenization, which is BAD.

i can honestly go on, but i think i've used up enough time and effort for an anon who didn't put any effort to make any good arguments for me.

#asks

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ghostcrows · 9 months

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I still think most of the attitude toward 'transandrophobia' is wasted energy on par with being mad at the MLM 'toothpaste flag' for being divisive and redundant .. like, the people associated with both are frequently annoying and the distinction may not have been necessary, but you're also rallying against a group so small that it holds generally no power even within the already disadvantaged group it's nestled within. Like even if the 'toothpaste flag' showed up at your local pride parade it's never going to take precedence over the gay flag. And you know that already

Idk like, I keep going into the transandrophobia tag expecting to see some absolutely nuts misogynistic dudebro bullshit and all I find is trans men explaining that they think people should care about our problems. I am inclined to agree with that and I think most people on here are too. So at what point does that become a seething hatred of trans women and a recreation of classic men's rights activism. It feels like it's something where it's more about the association than the actual "movement" (if you can call anti-transandrophobia a movement)

Like 'feminist'. Feminist is a word a lot of people have a poor reaction to now because of the rampant transmisogyny that has always existed within but has almost completely overtaken the association with the movement

But you aren't really mad at feminism when you see transmisogynist feminists acting out, you're mad at terfs

And every explanation I see of why it's a stupid 'movement' for stupid guys, it's always attacking the origins of the word itself, which makes me feel a little bit crazy...it's like saying 'fem'inism doesn't include masc women or something. like I just find it ridiculous

Idk. I'm trying every time I bring this up to further articulate my points because it continues to bother me and it wasn't bothering me like this quite so much before

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happysadyoyo · 2 years

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Why does everyone hate trans mascs. The top post in the transandrophobia tag is someone talking about how we’re whiny losers.

Plus my dog died, so I’m just having a shitty day in general ig and now I kinda wanna pause existing for a bit. Not that thats possible so on I go living IG 😐👍

Hey anon. I definitely get where you're coming from. It honestly still hurts when I call Nettle Chase and that happens more often than I like to admit.

I don't know why people think it's okay to be shitty to trans men. I mean, I can intellectually talk about it, distill it down to a hatred of men and oppression and the desire to have a black and white worldview but in this case it's not terribly worth it.

I saw the post you said and honestly of all the eggs and all the sperm that combined to make those sort of people confuse the fuck out of me. Personally, I'm glad the egg and sperm cells that made you did. Cause it's always nice to be able to relate to another dude losing his friend like this.

It sucks. And if you can it's okay to not exist for a bit. Find your favorite media and food, log off and shut your brain off a bit. If not today soon. You deserve the chance to grieve your loss. And if that means taking a day or two binging your favorite show or listening to your favorite playlist on loop, it's okay.

In the meantime have a dumb idiot who has been helping me heal from the loss of Chase.

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