This thing for me is fine hate Rose people are entitled to their own opinion, but Dan is the hill to die on?? Dan is peak character writing and representation?? Dan??

Also, the "try liking a character that gets actual sexism and racism on the daily" is getting to me. What does that even mean?? This is talking about working class characters? The way they said it implies that Dan goes through racism and sexism everyday? Dan??

Yeah, honestly I couldn't give two shits about people hating Rose? People have been talking about how Rose is boring and a bitch and too stupid and so on for longer than I've known the show existed (a bit over a decade at this point), and they'll be saying the same shit until the end of the fandom's existence. I take issue, however, with acting like everyone who disagrees with you about a dumb (affectionate) little sci-fi show is stupid, especially when you're actively insulting them.

And yeah, there's like a lot to be said on the concept of "representation" in general. Other people have articulated this better than I ever will. If you focus too hard on a character being "representation", somewhere along the way, you lose the "character" part. Not every character that fits the same demographic(s) as you is going to feel like they match your experiences 100%, and they shouldn't! If no one person's experiences are universal, how can we expect a character to portray universal experiences without losing that piece that makes them feel more like a character than a plot device being used for diversity points? It's good to have diverse characters! I'm not joking when I say Jack Harkness was a stepping stone in realizing I'm a lesbian - would it have taken me less time to realize if I'd had Bill to look up to when I was 13? Would I have felt comfortable with myself at a younger age if I'd seen a lesbian character on my favorite show? I can only hope that that's what happened for people younger than me! But, at least to me, you lose something when you focus on "good representation" over diverse good characters.

The thing about looking at Rose through the lens of representation is that... that's not what she was designed to be? Her experiences inform her character, but her story isn't about that background. Sure, call her bad representation. She was never intended to be representation. It's not a fucking gotcha. She's a character first.

And with Dan... I can't see him as serious commentary. His house gets shrunk as a joke. His house stays shrunk as a joke. We do not see the ramifications of him losing his house, I don't really see that as commentary on poverty or homelessness when we don't actually see what happens to him afterwards. I won't tell anyone they can't see themselves in his character or situation, but to say that everyone should universally agree that he's more relatable is literally bringing us back to square one of "this character resonates more with me and therefore they are better universal representation and if you disagree you're just a basic bitch that needs to grow up." It's not productive. Besides, isn't the point of representation supposed to be that the more a particular marginalized experience is portrayed, the more likely it is that someone will find something that resonates with them?

And as for talking about Rose being a disservice to Dan... I haven't seen anyone comparing Dan and Rose aside from OP. I won't say it doesn't exist, clearly we do not run in the same circles, but it's not something I see at all. Though if we want to get down to it - yeah, I see my experiences (admittedly as an American) more in Rose than Dan. And that's okay. I'm a young adult who has barely left home whose experiences of being poor are colored by that - of course I'm going to see myself in the 19 year old still living with her mom than the 50-something year old who is living on his own. But that doesn't mean I can't respect people who feel differently.

As for "try liking a character that gets actual sexism and racism on the daily", I can only assume that they were talking about Yaz. But of course, as you said, the placement makes it sound like it's about Dan. It's a really weird place to start talking about Yaz, especially since they didn't actually mention her by name and she wasn't being discussed prior. And they did block my friend for pointing out that actually experiencing racism and such is worse than being a fan of a character that is treated that way by fans so... take that as you will.

Also no part of main tagging these posts (including one that begins "rose tyler is so fucking boring"), calling Rose fans "basic bitches" (again - whether or not you think calling Rose a bitch is misogynistic - calling real people, at least some of whom are women, bitches because they disagree with you is, in fact, misogynistic), and saying "#rose stans are so easy to wind up #just say you don't like her or she's bad rep #and they start crying and shitting themselves #it's so funny" reads as attempting to have a discussion about these characters in good faith. It's just so clearly deliberately trying to start shit. Like grow up, it's 2023, get a hobby less reminiscent of a middle school bully.

Also like. You didn't mention it at all but I will talk about Rose's ending (especially looking at Doomsday specifically) being 1. a punishment rather than a reward, and 2. really horrifying to me, actually (from a power imbalance perspective, not just a Rose fan perspective) until I'm blue in the face. And also I do find it funny that someone said that "Rose Tyler and Charlie Bucket are a fantasy, that if you work, behave and are good at heart, you will get the ultimate treasure in capitalist society, capital." Like first of all I know it was someone on the pro-Rose side that brought it up, but I don't think the Charlie comparison is worthwhile at all. Second of all, I love her but what part of Rose's story is her working and behaving and that's how she ends up rich? Babe didn't work for money (though she did work to be undercover for what, a week?) onscreen a single day after the Doctor blew up her job. Since when is Rose "jeopardy friendly" Tyler known for behaving? And if half of your point is that she's a bitch... well that kills "good at heart" a bit, doesn't it?