#23rd budokai saga
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DOES TENSHINHAN REALLY TRAIN ALL THE TIME?
The short answer... "NO." The long answer...
DRAGON BALL Z:
In the Cell Saga, Tenshinhan had expressed multiple times that he felt useless. In fact, the guy who many in the DB fandom inaccurately claim trains non-stop actually lost confidence in himself so much so that Tien even REJECTED training in the RoSaT.
Tien could've gotten 1 year's worth of training in 1 day, yet he straight up refused. That alone proves that Tien DOES NOT train all the time like a Saiyan as so many people suggest. They are misinformed or willfully ignorant.
After Goku died, Tien felt depressed & lost some motovation to train (others felt depressed as well). He told his friends that they would probably never see him again. Then, he disappeared for 7 years & only reappeared briefly during the Buu Saga.
Why was Tien absent during majority of the Buu Saga?
Why did Tien choose to stay out of the 3 day battle until the very last moment while being fully aware of the situation from day 1 due to Babidi's telepathy?
TENSHINHAN WAS DEPRESSED & many fans fail to realize this. Tien even calls himself "USELESS" again in the Buu Saga. Tien did not want to join the fight because he had lost his fighting spirit. So, what exactly was Tenshinhan doing during the 7 year time-skip? Well, Toriyama actually tells us what Tenshinhan was doing...
TORIYAMA INTERVIEW:
Toriyama explains in an interview that in addition to Tenshinhan's training, he mostly farms & Chaozu helps him. (Even Yamcha occasionally stops by to help out when he isn't being a freelance bodyguard.)
Read the full article for yourself here.
And when you examine Toriyama's words closely, he says that "[Lunch] wasn't cut out for farming, and Tenshinhan has no interest in romance, so she left after a few days." Lunch was last mentioned to be chasing after Tenshinhan at the begining of the Saiyan Saga. This implies that Tien had actually been farming at some point soon after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai if not sooner.
Not to mention that "mostly farms" means that Tien does other things too.
Tenshinhan DOES NOT constantly train as many fans falsely claim. The only ones who Toriyama said train all the time are Goku, Vegeta, & Piccolo. And the series supports this statement.
DRAGON BALL SUPER:
The Resurrection F manga & the 7th ending for DBS reaffirm Toriyama's statements that Tenshinhan & Chaozu are indeed farmers.
Furthermore, we are shown in DBS EP 89 that Tenshinhan has also opened his own dojo & is teaching advanced martial arts to 12 students (+ Yurin later).
CONCLUSION
The notion that Tenshinhan trains all the time is purely fan conjecture that is taken as gospel.
Tien has been farming for at the least since the begining of DBZ.
Tien started a martial arts school at some point after the Universe 6 vs Universe 7 Tournament.
Many in the DB fandom don't fact check most statements made in the fandom. Then, they end up believing and regurgitating misinformation. So, HERE ARE THE FACTS! For those of us who know that Tien DOES NOT constantly train, this post/images/links can be used as evidence during disputes & discussions.
I'm tired of this fandom spewing inaccuracies as truth without getting checked. And many falsely claim that Tien trains all the time in order to make the argument that Tien deserved to be the strongest Earthling instead of Krillin & so that others believe the misinformation. They attempt to use Krillin as some sort of stepping stone with false information, but these fans do so at the expense of Tien's character development that they conveniently overlook.
If your feelings aren't validated by facts, then you are wrong. Once you are corrected, you are now right. If you want to be right, often times you have to be corrected.
[EXTRA]
It appears that Toriyama revealed that Tenshinhan was a farmer soon after the Freeza Saga when Freeza came to Earth. Tenshinhan & Chaozu were shown in a mountainous area while wearing clothing that resembles a Chinese winter farmer's attire along with some sort of carrying bag tied around their torso that they store their winter crops in. Not to mention that Trunks arrived in the past during a winter month, so them wearing winter farming attire makes sense given we know they are farmers. {I'm open to being corrected on this nugget of info if needed because I don't have extensive knowledge of historical Chinese attire.}
TENSHINHAN, CHAOZU, YAMCHA, & KRILLIN: They are still marital artists at heart, but there was 7 yrs of peace. If there was no enemy to fight, doesn't retiring from fighting make sense? Although, their retirement was only temporary as we saw in DBS. People hate on Krillin & Yamcha for retiring, yet forget that Tien and Chaozu retired too. All had good reasons to retire, but they all still did some form of martial arts during their retirement even if it wasn't anything too extreme; Krillin training with his wife & being a legal crime fighter without using weapons against armed criminals. Tien & Chaozu training & farming & later starting a martial arts school. Yamcha being a freelance bodyguard & occasionally helping Tien and Chaozu farm (possibly training with them occasionally too).
With Tien being depressed after the Cell Games, it makes sense why Launch still visited him from time to time even if he didn't want a romantic relationship with her. She was another friend to help him out.
#Tenshinhan#Tien#training#DB#DBZ#DBS#Dragon Ball#Dragon Ball Z#Dragon Ball Super#DB fandom#the truth#evidence
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My Sparking Zero Roster Prediction
At the time of writing this, we are mere HOURS away from a new gameplay reveal for Dragon Ball: Sparking Zero being released to the public. It’s going to be 13 minutes long, meaning we’ll most likely be seeing a plethora of new characters, so I wanted to share my personal predictions on who the roster will contain and some of my reasoning behind these choices. I started making this roster a while ago but only finished it a couple days ago, I got a little lazy… If they were in a previous game, I likely won’t talk about them, but there are some exceptions to this. That being said, I wanna tackle probably some of the biggest questions first:
That’s a lot of OG characters!
Yep! There’s a lot of space between Piccolo and the Saiyan Saga. and there are not that many characters in the Saiyan Saga, so it makes sense to add some OG rep in between. I’ll be heavily disappointed if they only give us Kid Goku to represent early DB, it’s literally where the franchise started and I hate how little it gets represented in newer games. They seem to be fixing that with Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot and Dragon Ball: The Breakers though, so my hopes are high for lots of early DB rep.
No GT/Z Movies?
Yeah, I really don’t think we’ll be getting any of that at launch unfortunately. The roster we got at the end of the rivals trailer seems to be ordered vaguely based on Saga, starting with characters introduced in the kid Goku era like Krillin and Tien in the top left and ending with DBS Broly in the bottom right. With how the already revealed characters are placed, I just can’t see room for them on the base roster.
No Super Hero?
No again, and that’s mostly because the roster seemingly ends at Broly and Bergamo.
With that out of the way, let me give some justification for specific characters being on here, starting with:
Bulma
I know she’s a weird choice, but she’d be a great fit imo. She was making laser guns as a kid so her attacks could be themed around that, she could fly with a jetpack, maybe she could even have a barrier special move. She has a lot of outfits from that era that could be used as costumes as well. There’s just a lot of potential for her in this game and I think it’d be a shame if she wasn’t here, though I’d 100% understand if she wasn’t.
Chi-Chi
I don’t have to justify her much, she was in BT3 after all, but I specifically want the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai version of her character instead of the kid design. Her kid design is just… weird, and I think you could do more interesting things with an older version of the character. Super Dragon Ball Z proved she can fit right into a cast on a fighting game perfectly fine using the Bansho Fan, there’s no reason to not be following that formula in the modern era of DB games. This version of the character also appeared in Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot and Dragon Ball: The Breakers so it’s not impossible. Her alternate costumes could even be her appearances from different eras of Dragon Ball, just put her in the game!!
DBS Bardock and Gine
I shouldn’t have to justify Bardock much, he appeared in DBS Broly so he could absolutely get in and this would be the perfect time to put his Super variation on a fighting game roster. The character I probably have to justify more is Gine and, if I’m being honest, she’s mostly just to fill space on the roster, BUT Fasha probably won’t be in this game and I think having Gine be her spiritual successor on the roster would be cute. Also, they have Great Ape forms because BT3 gave every tailed saiyan a Great Ape form.
Tarble
Ok he’s absolutely just a slot filler but Vegeta DOES mention having a brother in Super so it’s not impossible??? He also has a Great Ape form for the same reason as Bardock and Gine. You could realistically substitute him with more OG characters though, maybe Launch and Eighter or something.
Raspberry
Could be literally any Frieza Soldier, I just like him the most. It’s not a Budokai Tenkaichi game without a random Frieza grunt on the roster.
DBS 18 and DBZ 17
“C’mon man, they could totally just be costumes.” True, but this is the Budokai Tenkaichi series we’re talking about here. Not to mention they could absolutely have different movesets from their already existing counterparts on the roster. And it DOES fill out the roster quite nicely.
Anilaza
On top of being one of the more recognizable characters from the T.O.P, he was treated like an absolute menace in the show that, if I recall correctly, every remaining member of Team U7 had to gang up on to defeat. He’d also be another giant character which we know are returning, and those are fun to have on the roster.
Future Mai
She’s not just a slot filler, she actually did shit in the Future Trunks saga. She helped organize the resistance and even tried to snipe Black with an energy bullet, which would be an awesome ultimate attack. She should ABSOLUTELY be in this game.
Ribrianne/Kakunsa/Roasie and
Basil/Lavendar
I started making my list before Kakunsa was revealed, so go me, but my reasoning is that Ribrianne was absolutely going to make it in with how popular she is. She’s even in Xenoverse, so there’s a precedent for her being in games, and you can’t have her without having her teammates in a game like Sparking Zero. Bergamo is confirmed so Basil and Lavendar are here mostly so the whole Trio can be here.
Catopesra
He’s one of the goofiest characters in DBS and I think would make a great humor-focused character. I’ve seen people want Monaka in the game as a gag character, but gag characters still have to do something in fights and we’ve never seen him do anything in a fight. The point is that he doesn’t fight, so his inclusion wouldn’t make much sense.
Supreme Kai
He’s gonna have a role in Daima, and you could give him some interesting moves based on his power to create things, so he gets a spot.
Babidi and Dr. Gero
Babidi has a really unique playstyle in BT3 where landing his grab drains your energy and powers up his ultimate attack, and I think that’s cool enough for him to take a slot in the Buu Saga that really wasn’t being used. Dr. Gero is on here for the same reason, as there aren’t any other characters on the roster with android energy absorption bulbs on their hands, unless I’m forgetting something about a DBS character I included.
2 Piccolos?? 2 Bergamos??
Giant forms :) Piccolo’s isn’t totally necessary but Bergamo’s 100% is.
No Cabba?
Yeah I- I forgor. Just completely spaced on his existence. But I didn't wanna redo parts of the roster. Realistically DBS 18, Jaco, and Mai or Anilaza would get dropped for him and his forms. Just ignore it just don't think about it :)
2 Kelfas?
Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2. They don’t really look that visually distinct from each other on my roster though, so I just wanted to point that out.
No Whis?
I’m a strong advocate that Whis shouldn’t be a playable character in fighting games because part of being an angel is that you aren’t allowed to fight in battles. If he’s on the roster then whatever but I do not want to see him on there.
Vegito Blue in the Buu Saga?
I’m operating under the logic that when DBS Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito, they’d fuse into the same Vegito from the Buu Saga, and if you use the Buu Arc versions of Goku and Vegeta then Vegito Blue wouldn’t be usable. I was also struggling to fill slots in the Buu Saga and putting him there gave me an extra slot for a Super character.
And that’s really everything I can think to talk about. I’m scrambling to get this out at 2 am right now so I may have forgotten to mention something important, but oh well. It’s been a long time since I’ve been as excited for a game as I have been with Sparking Zero. Everything we’ve seen so far looks absolutely fantastic and is building up to make this the best Dragon Ball fighting game ever made in my opinion.
#this roster is a bit of a mess LOL#I definitely won't be 100% correct#but I think 90% correct is a fair estimate#dragon ball sparking zero#dragon ball#dragon ball z#dragon ball super#db#dbz#dbs#is a fair estimate
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I'm convinced Toriyama doesn't like Tien. Because the way he did him dirty in so many ways was just awful. You can't tell me that the guy who beat Goku in a 1v1(even if he was lucky), is being folded by King Piccolos Henchmen easily just 2 days later.
I get that Goku is the mc, but after at the 23rd Budokai Goku literally played with him, also meaning that he's nothing compared to Piccolo Jr.
Then there's DBZ where he was basically entirely useless (and don't even mention the Cell Scene)
That guy literally has 3 eyes, can spawn a set of arms, has no past, and brought Bukujutsu(flying) into the show. You can't tell me there isn't ANY room for a power up. Or what about latent potential, it took piccolo way to long too
(yes, that includes Yamcha aswell)
But even leaving all of that aside, the Buu saga treatment was cruel. He wasn't even there half of the time. He saved Dende ans Satan and went down after one hit (which is fine actually). But he just "disappeared" after Dende healed him.
Kid Buu blew up the earth, and they just die on earth completely unmentioned.
Then the Earth is brought back and the last thing ever you see of Tien and Chaozu was them contributing to the Genkidama(Spirit Bomb)
For the last Tournament they "didn't get a hold of them" so they didn't even get to be in the last episode ever. Just showing them doing their thing like a cameo in gt isn't that hard
I'm happy they got some screentime in DBS, even if they aren't as strong maybe
Or did I miss something?
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I really love how the original Dragon Ball escalates and seeds its world building. It starts out with this mythology about the titular objects that can grant any wish, and the first arc is this episodic adventure campaign of going to new locations and meeting new characters as a party of regulars slowly develops. The world is a wacky place with wacky people like a crazy strong monkey boy, turtle hermits with flying clouds, a village terrorized by a gang of bunnies who can turn people into carrots by touching them. It shows off this disparate variety to the world.
Then (after a tournament saga) there's the red ribbon army arc, which introduces this overarching malevolent organization. It's very grounded, it's an ARMY of evil soldiers who want the dragon balls for their powers but they essentially already have taken over most of the world. Goku is unaware of them because of his secluded upbringing, but everyone else recognizes who and what they are as a serious threat. It recontextualizes things to imagine that this organization was there in the background all along and just never was encountered until now by happenstance. Goku fights a massive militarized organization that besets him at every corner as he searches for the dragon balls again.
Then (after a tournament saga) we get introduced to a clan of DEMONS lead by THE DEVIL who ends up being revealed to be a cast off evil second half of GOD. The demons terrorize the world slaughtering martial artists because they're the only people who have the potential to seal THE DEVIL away as he had been before, and a good chunk of the cast straight up dies because of them which is a major upset of the standards the adventures have had until now. And in the end the main villain WINS. The BAD GUY who is THE DEVIL gets his wish from the dragon balls and then DESTROYS THEM so they can never be used against him, and then DOES take over the world by hijacking the World Kings palace. He makes a public televised announcement to the entire planet that HE is in charge and he has overthrown rule of law and encourages the citizens of the world to act on their evil impulses and cause chaos and carnage, and in the meantime he announces he'll be destroying every major populated center across the entire world until there's nobody and nothing left. Goku fights and kills THE DEVIL and then meets GOD (not a metaphor for him dying he literally physically ascends to the heavens and meets God at his house where he oversees the entire planet).
Then another tournament arc happens.
Things escalate even further from there and they start introducing world conquering space aliens who can destroy entire planets, but I think there's something special to the way things developed before then. I don't mind the delineation of Dragon Ball Classic and Dragon Ball Z because I do feel like there's a certain groundedness to original Dragon Ball that does start to go away after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Not all at once, but eventually the series ship of theseuses itself into feeling like something altogether removed from what it was, whereas I feel it has a very strong sense of identity all the way up until Saiyans are introduced. There was a magic to it. To the scope of this wonderful wacky zany world of martial artists expanding over time and revealing new things that were supposed to have always been there but feel natural that they'd never come up until it was appropriate. And I understand why it started drifting away from that, I mean after the main character becomes stronger than God where do you go from there?
But I'll always cherish that original Dragon Ball. With its Master Carrot Bunny, with its Pilaf, with its Turtle Hermit Martial Arts Master, with its Red Ribbon Army, with its Fortune Teller Baba, with its Turtle School vs Crane School rivalry, with its Demon King Piccolo. I'd say I miss it but that's sort of inaccurate, because it'll always be there to revisit time and again. And somehow it always feels just as special as the first time.
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Dragon Ball Retcons: The Lucky Streak
When the late, great Akira Toriyama first began work on Dragon Ball, it was a gag-flavored spoof on the legend of the classic Japanese novel Journey to the West. It was only toward the end of that initial story arc that Toriyama began to add an element of seriousness with Goku's transformation into an Oozaru. After this event, Oolong asks "So is Goku some kind of alien or something?", setting the stage for perhaps the luckiest streak of retcons from a writer who is clearly just making everything up as he goes along ever. By which I mean, retcons that were clearly never a pre-planned intention and yet somehow fit in so seamlessly that you could swear otherwise. Obviously, Toriyama eventually decided to retcon that Goku was, in fact, an alien. But with that throwaway line from Oolong, it now feels long foreshadowed!
The other examples:
- The Red Ribbon Army was the first serious villainous force that Goku faced, being full of dangerous high-tech gadgetry and robotics. However, the joke twist ended up being that its leader, Commander Red, was just some rich idiot with a Napoleon complex who wanted to use the Dragon Balls to wish himself taller and then go on to conquer the world, as opposed to simply using the Dragon Balls to wish for world domination. At the time, all of those technological threats were just a means to an end, a build-up to a punchline, and nothing more. But later, Toriyama decided that it was a super genius named Dr. Gero who was behind all of that stuff, and since Goku brought it all down he'd have more reason than anyone else in the Red Ribbon Army to hate him, causing him to seek vengeance through the creation of the Androids and Cell. And it totally tracks! The reason an organization led by a joke villain still felt so serious as a threat was because its weaponry was engineered by a serious villain, and that villain returning to ultimately cost Goku his life via a creation that blends the cells of Goku, his friends and his foes feels like a natural full circle accumulation for the story.
- Mercenary Tao actually managed to defeat Goku with a technique called the Dodonpa. At the time, it was just a cool and unexpected way to finish a fight and cement Tao as a formidable opponent. But later, Toriyama decided to bring in the Crane Hermit school of martial arts which lends its teachings to the mercenary lifestyle, which is how we get Tienshinhan. Now it looks like Tao was deliberate foreshadowing of this new three-eyed foe turned mainstay ally of Goku's even though Toriyama hadn't thought him up back then.
- Piccolo and Kami were both green with pointy ears and antennas, looking more like aliens than demon and deity respectively. And per Toriyama's own admission, he hadn't planned them as aliens until it came time for them to face off in the 23rd Budokai. That's when he decided they were actually aliens and decided to foreshadow it with a talk between them spoken entirely in an unknown language, which turned out to be the native language of the Namekians - something that would become a pivotal plot point during the Freeza Saga.
- The Saiyans (Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta) all wore a distinct spiked battle armor, had energy scouters over their eyes, and traveled in spherical space pods. Later, Toriyama retconned it so that these motifs were all part of Freeza's empire and not the Saiyans. This would not have felt natural....had Toriyama not also made the pivotal change in plans of leaving Vegeta alive at the end of his battle with Goku on Earth. Because the Saiyans' leader is still in the story, we get to clearly see his interactions and dynamics with Freeza and his empire, totally selling us the notion that this was how it always was; that he and his comrades were always serving in that empire while also scheming to overthrow it someday. It made perfect sense.
- Similarly, the remark Raditz gave about the Saiyans' home planet being destroyed by a comet was later retconned into being a lie by Freeza, who actually destroyed the planet. Once again this ended up feeling perfectly natural, because so much of Freeza's character via the still living Vegeta was the tight grip he preferred to have on the Saiyans lest they become a threat to him. So it tracks that he would decide to reduce the number of Saiyans in existence to make this easier and hopefully make a Super Saiyan arising less likely.
- Vegeta in general was pure happenstance somehow producing one of the best developed characters in the series. Instead of the throwaway arc villain he was created to be, he survived to be a great secondary villain turned ally through necessity in the Freeza Saga, where he met his tear-jerking demise....except even that wasn't to last despite originally being the intention, as his popularity caused Toriyama to resurrect him after Goku had become a Super Saiyan, creating the perfect segue into him shifting into more of a rival whose primary objective was to surpass Goku in strength. Selfish, but not villainous. And it just kept going from there, to the point where in the chapter where the decision to spare Vegeta in-universe and out of it was made, Krillin's vocal disbelief of the notion Vegeta will ever turn over a new leaf like Piccolo ends up feeling like foreshadowing that he would.
- There's also the whole Super Saiyan concept and how it seamlessly plays into the way Goku has always come back stronger after every defeat. The way his transformation happens is also steeped in dramatic irony that makes sense for the story: it isn't his strength or love for fighting that does it, but his Earth-bred compassion for his human friend Krillin.
- On that note, Gohan's hidden power. This was set up early into Gohan's time as a character, but it wasn't supposed to be specifically tied to anything. But in the Android Saga, Gohan ends up as the one most likely to fully transcend the level of Super Saiyan due to that hidden power of his. It now feels like this was always the logical end route for that plot thread even when Toriyama hadn't even thought up regular Super Saiyans yet when he started it.
- Last but not least, the Android Saga in general. This whole story was Toriyama and his editors winging it from beginning to end, and the finished product is something that flows so smoothly you'd swear it was pre-planned. Of course Androids 19 and 20 weren't the actual Androids that Trunks warned about! Of course Androids 17 and 18 were ultimately going to be redeemed villains! Of course Cell was designed to transform through the absorption of 17 and 18! Of course past elements like Dende, the Budokai tournament and Bulma being a tech genius were going to be incredibly important! Of course the story would end with the flaws Cell exploited in others being exploited in him, Gohan's power to be as much of a hindrance as a help, Goku sacrificing his life, Cell coming back even more powerful, Vegeta finally displaying actual love and humility and self-reflection, and Gohan defeating Cell by blasting him with the most powerful Kamehameha ever...one-handed! It all feels so organic both in itself and in context to the wider series! Yet Toriyama totally stumbled his way into it.
It really was impressive. Sadly, all good things must come to an end, and Toriyama never really captured that same magic afterward. Most of the retcons made in the Buu Saga, all of Dragon Ball Super, and the canonically licensed video games just feel so much more obvious and clunky. Some of them still feel sensible - Hercule's development and connection made to Goku's family, the existence of the Kaioshins, a space between time where one can intersect with the unlimited timelines...those all make sense given what has come before. But stuff like new Super Saiyan forms from Super Saiyan 3 and onward, Goten and Trunks being prodigious enough to master Super Saiyan and (when fused) Super Saiyan 3 as children, the kind of increasingly nonsensical abilities that Buu has, Beerus being the one to commission the destruction of Planet Vegeta, all of these parallel universes, Goku Black, Future Mai, Zeno, Broly and Paragus, randomly existing relatives of Commander Red and Dr. Gero, much of what goes on in the Super manga and Dragon Ball Heroes game...it's all a bunch of nonsense that truly feels as pulled out of Toriyama and his collaborators' asses as it is.
I still love the Dragon Ball franchise and even have fun with the stuff I just listed, but man, that period between when it started and when the Android Saga ended can't be topped.
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"Alright, you asked for this! SOIKDAN!"
I posted this on twitter back in October, but never got around to sharing it here until now - Introducing my Dragon Ball OC, Corsette! She's Yamcha and Bulma's daughter, who's around the same age as Gohan (because that boy deserves more friends his own age). This specific drawing of her is her in her martial arts clothes as a teenager (circa the Buu Saga).
See below the cut for a more extensive character bio, as well as a drawing of her in civillian clothes;
Born during the five year gap between the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and the arrival of Raditz, Corsette is introduced to the narrative as a wide-eyed young girl who practically worships the ground her father walks on. Bulma and Yamcha's relationship is just as on-and-off at this point as it was in canon, but she's too young to really comprehend that, and just loves when she gets to see her dad.
However, her entire life is upended when Yamcha dies in the battle against Vegeta and Raditz. Like Gohan's determination to bring back Piccolo, she decides she wants to travel to Namek to wish her dad back, with Bulma seeing no reason not to take her since, at this point, they have no clue about Frieza and think Namek will be perfectly peaceful and safe. It's the horrors she sees on Namek that inspire her to want to become a martial artist like her dad and his friends. In contrast to her best friend Gohan who, despite being part of a warrior race, doesn't like fighting and only trains because he has to, Corsette develops a true passion for martial arts, and makes it her goal to become the strongest woman in the world when she grows up.
Her life is once again upended when her mom gets pregnant with Trunks - at first she is resentful of her new baby brother due to not liking Vegeta, however once she realises that he and the warrior from the future she greatly admires are one and the same, she resolves to protect her baby brother so that the Future Trunks would be proud of her, becoming a rather doting big sister. The Android/Cell Saga mostly plays out the same as in canon in this au, however there is one major change during the Cell Games - Gohan's transformation is triggered not by Cell destroying Android 16, but by him killing Corsette, the death of his best friend completely sending him over the edge. Of course Corsette is quickly revived by the dragon, however, her death becomes a defining moment for Gohan, and only furthers his aversion to fighting.
By the time of the Buu Saga, Corsette is a world class martial artist, planning on entering the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, hoping to achieve what her father never did and being crowned 'strongest under the heavens'. She doesn't attend the same high school as Gohan, instead going to the same school in West City her parents attended, but Gohan introduces her to Videl, Erasa, and Sharpner, around the time of the tournament. Videl's initial attitude towards her is a defensive, quick-tempered one, being jealous that a girl who is just as human as she is is fully knowledgable in ki, however the rivalry soon turns friendly with Corsette's presence spurning Videl on to train harder, and Corsette being glad to have an opponent for once who isn't an impossibly strong alien. Corsette is quick to pick up on Videl and Gohan's feelings for each other and tease them about it, however she isn't one to talk, as she instantly develops a strong crush on Erasa that causes her to being a shy, tongue-tied mess whenever she's around (parallellng Yamcha's crush on Bulma in the Pilaf Saga). Erasa for her part thinks Corsette is a total hunk, but anytime she tries to strike up a conversation, Corsette gets too nervous to say anything and runs off.
Of course, like in canon, the tournament quickly goes off the rails with Babidi showing up, and things initially play out as they do in canon - Majin Vegeta, Buu awakening, etc. However, when Gohan is spirited away to the land of the Kai, Corsette is brought along with him, and winds up playing a key role in the rest of the arc. Most notably, the Supreme Kai gives Gohan the potara earrings rather than Goku, and it is she and Gohan who fuse together rather than Goku and Vegeta, fusing to form Gosette, who continues the superhero gag from the Great Saiyaman, being a more serious western style superhero as opposed to the Great Saiyaman's super sentai pastiche.
Like Vegito in canon, Gosette gets absorbed by Buu (in this case due to getting a bit carried away with the superhero thing), and from there, things mostly play out the same as in canon, just with Corsette present and Gohan having a more prominent role. The evil Buu is defeated, the day is saved, and Vegeta and Corsette (who's relationship has been very rocky up to this point) form something of a mutual understanding as a result of his sacrifice; she is one of the people he names before sacrificing himself, and when Baba brings him back to assist in fighting Buu we get a number of comedic scenes of the two of them having similar temper flair-ups towards Goku, showing how they have more in common then they'd like to admit. On the lookout, she is the one who throws him a thumbs-up rather than Bulma (who instead embraces him), and from there they form a proper stepfather-stepdaughter relationship. Erasa is also on the lookout with Videl in this au, and is ecstatic to see Corsette again, asking her out on a date now that the world isn't going to end - Corsette, of course, responds by turning into a blushing, stuttering, nervous wreck. Yamcha has no idea where she gets it from.
I could go on into Super and beyond, but I've already written... god, six paragraphs of biography. As you can see, I've had a lot of ideas for her, this is just the broad strokes! Maybe I'll turn it all into a fic, who knows. But for now, have the promised picture of her in her civillian clothes (and in my attempt at a more rounded early Dragon Ball style);
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This may or may not be a hot take but Raditz' arrival is one of the WORST places you could jump into the Dragon Ball story and splitting the anime into Z at that point really did the narrative a lasting disservice. And I'll die on that hill.
As a consequence almost all modern games, adaptations, and recuts start with the Saiyans rather than say, the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai or any arc before it, nearly all of which do a better job of introducing the extended world and cast than the Saiyan Saga does.
Like yeah, I do think splitting the series contributed to its worldwide longevity given the major tone shifts and growing pains early in the first show, but some of the biggest moments of the Saiyan saga are the twist that Goku is an alien, his teamup with Piccolo, and every character you grew to love in DB fighting and dying against Nappa, all of which mean nothing if that's where you start. Ironically the filler helps a bit, but things like Kai or the English manga releases obviously don't have that. Potentially the only worse jumping-on point is the Namek stuff but that's because it's a direct follow-up to the Saiyans so it carries a lot of the same baggage.
#and yes by this I do mean that even the Android and Buu sagas do a better job of getting the audience up to speed and invested#Dragon Ball#Dragon Ball Z#Dragonball Z#DBZ#reclass.txt
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I find it so funny that he was just hanging around before the tournament like any normal applicant,, do you think they gave him a hotel room too
He's having the time of his life
#dragonball#dbz#piccolo#i mean he was walking towards the building in that one shot bdjsjsk#dragon ball fanart#goku#krillin#dragon ball#king piccolo#piccolo jr saga#23rd Tenkaichi budokai#skart#dragon ball memes
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Goku Gives A Beatdown to Piccolo Jr. (part 1)
#dragon ball#goku#son goku#piccolo#piccolo jr#piccolo daimao#tenkaichi budokai#23rd tenkaichi budokai#strongest under the heavens#piccolo arc#piccolo junior saga#powering up#combo
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is it me or did mr. satan kind of just permanently ruin the tournaments for everyone
#paint.txt#the budokais were so fucking fun but now they're rigged and they HAVE TO BE RIGGED NOW so he'll always win#he also turned it into a business instead of just this thing the budokai tenkaichi people put together#they got rid of the preliminaries! there's bleachers (which is admittedly a good thing but it feels more like a sporting event now : <#idk World Tournament saga just doesn't sit well with me.#in all honesty i understand why toriyama didn't make another tournament saga. it's pretty much impossible to top 23rd budokai
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The many faces of Junior!
Left to Right: Saiyan-Buu arc, 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai saga, Kid Piccolo, Demon Grub baby and then Egg.
Decided to remake one of my earlier Piccolo works that I originally did back in January. When I first started drawing him I struggled to translate his face into my own style (and god did it show)
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A couple of questions about the episode in the forest where Krillin confronts his fears. 1 One of the embodiments of his fears is Piccolo Daimao. However, Krillin was killed before ever actually seeing him, so how could his fear be embodied for someone he never actually saw? 2 Why was their no fear embodiment of Piccolo Jr. circa 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai? There was one of Saiyajin Saga Vegeta so why not that version of Piccolo Jr.?
King Piccolo was the one who had him killed though. And given he was all over the media, I’ve no doubt he at least knows what that monster looks like. Piccolo Jr, however, never really did more than beat him in a tournament and be kinda mean at times. Comparatively, Krillin’s just never been as scared of him as he has the others, and all of them had caused far more traumatic memories to boot.
That would be my guess.
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i've heard that the general consensus for dragon ball is that the peak is area around the jump between db to dbz and a little after but i wanna know what your personal favorite saga is. for me it's a tossup between 21st budokai, 23rd budokai, and saiyan saga
honestly with this fandom its very hard to tell what is considered to be peak. i generally tend to gravitate towards people who prefer the OG era overall.
as of my favorite sagas, then the original king piccolo saga (tho, exclusively how ANIME handled it, because it added a lot of cool stuff that made arc much better than in the manga to me) and sayian saga are my favorites.
red ribbon army is also underrated imo. it's long but it's filled with lots of fun adventures and fights. dragon ball at it's peak creativity.
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FURTHER ANALYSIS OF DBS: SUPER HERO
MY NEW PREDICTION
I'm sure others have similar thoughts too. But here's my take.
The memory of Majin Buu was erased, yet the RR Army have his picture. Meaning they likely have recordings of Buu terrorizing the world. And since Buu is in association with Mr. Satan, in their eyes, Mr. Satan is working with the enemy.
There is probably footage of Majin Vegeta killing ppl in the audience too. Then the image we are shown is of Cell saga Vegeta who killed a trucker (& many other innocent ppl in the anime). And let's not forget there could be footage of Saiyan saga Vegeta too.
Then we know Vegeta fights along side Goku. Why is Goku working with a "villain?" Guilty by association, so Goku must be evil too. That's the propaganda that the RR Army could spread.
The Red Ribbon Army wants control & they now have the opportunity to frame the heroes to look like bad guys.
RR Army Propaganda...
Evil aliens called Saiyans have invaded Earth and the RR Army has been trying to stop them. And they are working together with Demon King Piccolo.
The RR Army created androids & cyborgs to "save" the world from these evil aliens, but were defeated.
The evil Saiyan Vegeta has killed many ppl and threatened the planet. He is on the same side as the Saiyan, Son Goku, the winner of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai & the same man who destroyed part of the RR Army.
Capsule Corp. is working with these evil aliens too.
These 2 Saiyans have hybrid children to repopulate their own kind and wipe out humanity.
Saiyaman is a disguised Saiyan "pretending" to be a hero. Maybe his popularity overshadowed the man in the photo who looks like a super hero.
There were some ppl who didn't come back to life after Buu killed them. Maybe the hero in the photo is one who wasn't wished back to life because his heart was evil? BUT the RR Army will twist it into "he was a hero that was erased by evil." OR... the man actually was a hero. And now the RR Army has twisted views of justice and is creating new superheroes. But, superheroes need supervillains... thus, Goku & other will be portrayed as the enemy.
Memories of Majin Buu were erased, but the RR Army has footage of Buu killing everyone on Earth. This can be used against the heroes.
The "savior" of Earth mysteriously has the "evil" Majin Buu as his student under the name "Mr. Buu." Satan is also a "villain" that has tricked the world. (Ironically somewhat true lol.)
The RR Army will present their "superheroes" to face off against the "villains" that are Goku and his friends.
Those related to or associated with Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Buu, & Satan are also "enemies of mankind." (Goku, Chi-Chi, Goten, Gohan, Videl, Pan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Bulma, Trunks, Mr. Satan, Buu, & their other friends.)
WHO IS THIS? 🤔
The short, chubby young man might end up being General Red's grandson. Maybe even the son of the superhero. The superhero & the man in red could sons of General Red. (Ppl call him a kid but I think he may be a young adult instead. Just short.)
With the superhero father gone, the uncle takes his super genius nephew under his wing and produces "superheroes." Or something along those lines.
If the young man has no relation to General Red, then the man with a moustache riding in the back of the limo with him could be the son of General Red instead. That guy may just want to use the genius of this young man in order to take over the world. But he lies to him, saying "We will make heroes!"
The tall guy in the red suit (the driver) could still be the uncle of the boy, but just happens to work for the RR Army.
GAMMA 1 & GAMMA 2
These new characters, Gamma 1 & 2, wear capes as if they are super heroes & will make the world believe they are. (They may even believe they are actually heroes & don't know their purpose is malicious.)
Gamma 1 & 2 have their name "Gamma" written in Greek on their belts "Γ." Gamma is also the third letter of the Greek alphabet. This could foreshadow a fusion of 1 & 2 to make 3, or a third creation named "Gamma 3." I'd prefer a third instead of a fusion.
I can see them using moves with "gamma" in the title.
And who knows, maybe their blasters have special properties to them that make it difficult for the heroes. Similar to the Wave Machine in DBFZ that produces waves capable of suppressing the ki if powerful mortal fighters.
They appear to have information about Goku & the others downloaded into them. 1 & 2 may even be Bio-Androids in a similar way to Cell, but more advanced & have undetectable energy like 17 & 18. Or possibly be a reference to the Bio-Broly movie's interesting idea of Bio-Warriors. I'm sure that idea will be executed much better in this movie than in Bio-Broly.
MY NEW PREDICTION FOR THE STORY
The heroes will be vilified. The alien Z Fighters once threatened humanity, so it wont be difficult to paint them as bad guys. Not to mention that the RR Army is using "evil" looking faces for the good guys to vilify them. (Satan probably has an evil face too if we could see it.)
The RR Army appear to be replacing the characters of the Bio-Broly film. Lord Jaguar, the shaman, & the scientists. Some ppl will complain (they complained about DBS: Broly, then loved it) but I say this is gonna be #Bio-BrolyDoneRight
(I made a post long ago that the RR Army should be written to create bio-warriors in a spin-off focused on Officer Krillin who fights these enemies alongside other heroes, minus Goku & Vegeta. I'm too lazy to find it lol. It could've been on twitter idk.)
Instead of creating Bio-Warriors, they create the Bio-Androids, Gamma 1 & 2, that will used as "superheroes." (They could have other Bio-Androids too, or multiple bodies for 1 & 2.)
But, Broly is in this movie, so there may be an homage to Bio-Broly. Then Goku, Vegeta, & Broly may have to fight that enemy.
The Bio-Broly movie also focused on other characters like Goten, Trunks, Mr. Satan, Android 18 & Krillin. So, there could be a reason why Pan, Piccolo, & Officer Krillin were shown first for DBS: Super Hero. They will get a fair share of screen time. Similar to how the DBS Broly movie showed Cheelai & Lemo, then the two had fun roles throughout the film.
Makes ya wonder how Officer Krillin, 18, & even 17 could play into the story. Is the RR Army going to say that 17 & 18 are on their side? Maybe they will be viewed as traitors? 🤔
So, in short...
The story could be to make the world believe that the heroes are the villains, while the true villains present their "superheroes" to save the world. As the heroes fight this new threat, the ppl of Earth turn against them. Until... the RR Army reveal their true colors or the true SuperHeroes have to prove themselves to be the protectors of the world.
This could also explain why Mr. Buu has so many fangirls.
FINAL BATTLE... (maybe)
The enemy could be a revamped/rebooted version of Bio-Broly, or a Cell 2.0, or an new unexpected third villain.
Gamma screens consist of black, white, red, blue, & green. We see that Gamma 1 & Gamma 2 are red & blue. The final enemy might end up being green. If its "Gamma 3" then they will likely have green in its design.
See why I said Bio-Broly & Cell? They're associated with green.
Who will fight this enemy? Maybe Goku alongside Vegeta & Broly. Maybe Gohan/Saiyaman and the other heroes on Earth.
LASTLY...
I'm thinking this movie will take inspiration from DBO, Bio-Broly, & DBFZ.
The hero stuff from DBO (link to my original theory, but replace Freeza's Forces with the RR Army).
Replacing the Bio-Broly cast with the RR Army, and then mixing it with the Red Pants Army stuff from DBO. Also, further involvement of the cast like in Bio-Broly.
DBFZ because the return of the RR Army and more focus on other characters being important.
They could even sneak Gero in this move. Either a flashback cameo, or say his consciousness was uploaded to a SuperComputer.
Unlikely but, maybe No. 21 will be brought into the story & replace Nain. 👀 (doubt it, but would be a quick cameo or reference would be cool.)
Maybe an old lady 21 with gray hair?
I also wanna see Saiyaman 1 & Saiyaman 2 since we have Gamma 1 & Gamma 2. Pretty sure we gonna see No. 17 & No. 18 since Krillin is in the film. Lastly, I hope we get to see Krillin's power-up from DBS EP 76 in the film, or a reference to it.🤞
But, that's pretty much allI have to say... Yes, I do like linking this post lol. It's my favorite post I've made.
#theory#Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero#DBS: Super Hero#Dragon Ball Super: SuperHero#DBS: SuperHero#y'all notice how I used red blue & green?#I was trying to do some visual build up#DBS movie 2
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Some more gouache and pen panel redraws. The top 3 are all from the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai tournament, while the bottom Vegeta is from the Buu Saga.
#dragon ball#dragon ball z#dbz#traditional art#gouache#doodle#gouache art#piccolo#anime#manga#Vegeta#chi chi#chichi#yamcha#micron pens#my art
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