#2) it's not misogynistic to remove her. the fact that she's a woman doesn't have ANYTHING to do with her removal | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

allthesapphicstars · 3 years

Note

In the books it's Mrs Coulter who decides she doesn't want anything to do with baby Lyra after the scandal, that's why she's given to Lord Asriel, not the other way around. The show changed this (and her character) completely. After the trial Lord Asriel is declared unfit for parenting and Lyra is given to a nunnery, but he decides to 'kidnap' her and brings her to Jordan College. And it's not like Lord Asriel is not left crawling as well, he used to be as rich as a king, after Lyra he had to swallow his pride and go beg colleges for funding (even 12 years later), whereas Mrs. Coulter (now a widow and free) is given funding by the Magisterium itself, so again, in the books she does achieve what she wants, in unconventional ways maybe, but she has her own research department and is never seen as subordinate to any man, until book 3 at least. And most importantly, in the books she subdues to no man, let alone Boreal. He's literally her puppet in the books 😔

I think you raise some good points here. But I want to say that my post about Marisa and the patriarchy was very much my own opinion and interpretation of both the books and the show from my own perspective as a woman having lived the experiences I have. That being said I do think I should go through your points and explain my own reasoning behind my interpretation.

1) Who got to take care of Lyra.

I never actually said that Asriel didn't want anything to do with Lyra. I do believe that both of them, in their own ways, do love and care about Lyra. They're just not very good at it.

But in terms of who took care of Lyra after she was born that responsibility immediately fell to Asriel. And there are probably lots of reasons for this. But, for me, I don't think that it was ever really a consideration or much of an option for Mrs Coulter to do so because of the environment of their world.

Marisa was married and had an affair that produced a child. In their world, women are second class citizens in comparison to men and as such any power or financial security that she may have would have been derived from her position as a wife. And a wife to a powerful man. To be able to keep a child requires resources that she would have only been able to get through her husband.

We know that Mrs Coulter kept her affair and also her child a secret because it would have ruined her. But also, I don't think we should forget, that she kept Lyra a secret from her husband to protect her too. As when Mr Coulter found out about the affair and Lyra he went to Asriel's house to kill them both, but Asriel got there first.

If you consider this, then Marisa wasn't really given much of a choice about what to do with Lyra. If she'd taken care of her herself then it's likely that her husband would have banished her from his home and therefore stopped her access to any resources, or he would have killed the child. Neither of those options look particularly good if you ask me.

Asriel's decision to "kidnap" Lyra and get her to Jordan is, to me, an act of desperation to protect his child in the same vein as Marisa's decision to not care for her herself.

Don't forget, by this point Marisa has been marked as an adulterer and a widow and is a pariah to most of society. She's also no longer under the protection of a man which is why the magisterium don't allow her to take Lyra back into her custody but instead give her to the nunnery.

Neither of Lyra's parents have many options when it comes to custody because of the patriarchal structure of their world. (although I highly doubt Marisa would have been let off as lightly as Asriel was in terms of breaking the rules about Lyra)

2) Asriel also had to crawl his way back.

Yes. You're right, Asriel did have to work his way back up to respected by society again. But as you yourself pointed out, his main obstacle was the loss of his money.

Asriel still retains his title. His academic standing is relatively untouched. He may have to beg to get funding but so does pretty much everyone trying to get funding tbh. The college's still listen to what he has to say. His name carries weight.

Let's compare this to what Marisa lost in the scandal. Yes, she didn't lose all of her finances like Asriel. But with the death of Mr Coulter she lost the male presence that in their society allowed her access to so many places. Without a husband she doesn't have the same security that she did before. She also lost her reputation, which for a woman (and not just in their world) is detrimental in how she is treated.

When I say that Marisa had to claw her way back into society I really do mean it. She wasn't just struggling to get finances like Asriel, she was struggling to be listened to, to be respected, to have any form of control over her life that having power gives you. Their world is deeply misogynistic so anything that Asriel struggled to gain, Marisa would have had to work against the same odds but also factor in her gender setting her back deeply.

3) freedom

Honestly I can't agree with your statement that Marisa is more free compared to Asriel.

Ok, so yes, Marisa gets funding from the Magisterium but that is explicitly because she is doing research that they want doing (experimenting with the concept of removing sin by cutting children) that they don't want to be seen doing because it's barbaric. Her research funding comes directly from the fact that as a woman, who's a pariah and not a member of the church authority, if what they were doing was made public she's easily expendable. Someone that they can deny ever colluding with. And Marisa knows this. She knows how vulnerable her position within the church really is. That the power the church gives her is an illusion.

So she creates her own power through using what condemned her in the eyes of the church against them. Her ability to seduce. They view her as a wanton adulterer so she uses that fear of her sexuality to arouse and then manipulate the men in power.

But this doesn't mean she not seen as a subordinate to a man. She 100% is. She has to answer to the male heads of the church. And is expected to bow down to their will when they change their minds. She doesn't have this freedom to do what she wants with her research that you say because she always has to justify her actions to a man.

4) Boreal

Boreal is not her puppet. Yes, he does do what she wants but that's because of his attraction to her. He doesn't submit to her desires because he respects her. He definitely doesn't do it because he sees her as an equal.

Boreal does what Marisa wants because he thinks that as a man he has more power over her. He submits to her whims because he think that if he plays along with her wishes and appeases her, gives her the illusion of having control over him, he'll be more attractive to her. All of Boreal's motivations come from wanting to sleep with her. And actually I'd argue that even more than that, Boreal is a collector (and this is something that the show drew on in the last episode) he wants to be able to say that he triumphed by being the first man to fully get Mrs Coulter to submit. He wants to own her.

And Marisa is fully aware of this. And yes, whilst being aware of how one is being manipulated does give you some power over the person doing the manipulating, it still doesn't negate the fact that the entitlement to her as a person that Boreal expresses comes directly from how their society views women.

Marisa's sexuality is both a weapon and also a cage. And I'm not going to go further into that here because tbh it's like a whole post on it's own and this is already way too long. (and also it makes me sad and stressed to think about).

I did just want to add on though to your comment about book three being the first time Marisa submits herself to a man. As you can probably guess I don't agree with that assessment, she is constantly having to submit herself to men and you can tell that it wears her down even if she pretends she's above it.

But even if you don't see all of her interactions as reflecting this then the scenes I think your referencing to in book three really do reinforce that submission is not a new act she's had to play. When Marisa is in Asriel's fortress and talks about playing the demure and naive woman with the generals, and even with Asriel (yes I know he's aware that she's manipulating him but I also think he's not aware of just how much), shows that it's not a new concept to her. It's definitely something she's had to do before. And honestly I think it's something she's had to do her whole life.

To summarise: yes Mrs Coulter is a figure of power in the books and is a master manipulator. But that doesn't mean she isn't constantly struggling against a world that condemns her as inferior because she's a woman. She's judged harsher because of her sex.

And you can't forget we only get her point of view in book three, but throughout the series you can see how her being a woman holds her back from everything that she wants to achieve and I still believe that going up against those struggles is a direct impact on her actions and who she is as a person.

She's spent her whole life fighting. And I think there's something really tragic about that.

#mrs coulter #marisa coulter #his dark materials #his dark materials meta #hdm series 2 #hdm #lord asriel #long post #anon answered #sorry i have a lot of feelings about mrs coulter ok #hdm analysis

78 notes · View notes

llvnos · 4 years

Text

🚨🚨 Long Post Alert🚨🚨

So my sister's art work was stolen as usual and that sucks, but what upsets me even more than the fact that it was stolen (sorry sissy) is what was done to it. A person took everything this piece was meant to represent and completely destroyed it.

someone really dedicated their time to desecrate an image of black strength, power and unity.

To the person who did this...

You looked at this image and said "Hmm, you know what's missing?"

1. Tacky jail tattoos on their bodies with whack ass words like"Tru Pooh"

2. pretty green collar to match her eyeshadow. With a chain link on it so he can leash her like a dog if he needs to.

3. Remove their wedding rings. their vows of dedication to one another

4. You thought 'Add Another Bitch'. A carbon copy of the first. Still nice, just not as as nice. This picture is already perfect for it, right? 'Cause When you flip the Queen's image Now she's reaching for a man who is slightly turned away. craving for something hell never really fulfill. Shrink her hair and push her chair slightly behind theirs because she'll never really measure up to their level. But leave her crown the same, so you can tell her she's just as good and give her a matching collar so Queen can know she isn't any better.

5. So the viewer can know what this is really about. Steal another artists work. An image of sex between a man and two women. (Because that's what this is really all about) and place it over the second girl's head since that's what her main roll is anyway. Nothing like the black power symbol that is placed Center and level between the married power couple that was once before you.

6. Most importantly Over this symbol of black unity you wrote: POLYGYNY=1. Not polygamy, you wanted to make sure your message was clear. Not Two men and one woman- Three women-Five men... No other relationship combinationa are to be considered they are all faulty. Polygyny is number 1. 1 man and however many women he pleases.

To this artist(Kiana Llanos), the black woman is the most powerful being in the world. Did you even look at this piece? What was it that you were so offended by? Was it in his moment of thought, deliberation or reflection How she sat tall and secure. Was it her hand OVER his, offering comfort when he may have NEEDED it. This image looks like she has his back when you feel, as a man, he should only be having hers, doesn't it. You, as in individual (Man, woman, black, white, POC, whatever/whoever) are the problem with the black community and the way you have absolutely disgraced her is deplorable. You are actively working to change the narrative of the black community. What a misogynistic dickwad you must be.

And might I add for the artist to have found this in a group that calls itself the Black Love Blueprint is a joke all in itself.

K. I'm done.

- My sister & Biggest Supporter

#kiana llanos #artists #art #black art #me #fam

2 notes · View notes