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joannalannister · 7 years

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I’m writing this post because I want to organize a few of my recent thoughts on women in fiction and ASOIAF that were inspired by reading this analysis from the LA review of books (which was about that show). I talk a lot about gender in ASOIAF and ships I like.

Please note: I have a very low level of tolerance for that show, and arguing about that show on the internet is well beyond the limits of what I can tolerate. Please do not bring the show wank to me. Please. I’m tired. Please. The tv show is a lost cause to me and I don’t want to engage. I’m only writing this because of my love for the books. I’m not writing this for reblogs, I’m writing this for me. I’m not putting this in a tracked tag, and I’m sorry I can’t keep it out of search.

The author of that LA review, Sarah Mesle, asked, “Why do women’s experiences, and their friendships, so often carry the ballast of realism for the rest of [the narrative]? Why can’t we imagine women as friends?” [x]

Mesle talks about how the men have friends in their narratives, but the women are isolated. For example, in the books, Jon has Sam, and Tyrion has Bronn (although that’s limited because he’s a mercenary), and Stannis has Davos, etc but “Cersei has never fucking had anyone (dead mom, don’t get me started)”.

“I was tired of women “providing the ballast of realism” for men’s fantastical stories.” [x] Quoting Virgina Wolfe, Mesle talks about how male writers write women as being “locked up, beaten and flung about the room” to add realism to their stories.

GRRM isn’t exempt from this. I keep going back to the idea that, according to GRRM, women being raped provides ~realism~ and ~historical accuracy~ to his story. And I am so tired.

“I don’t want to be the critic who swoops in with my ideology critique — an ideology critique is like the opposite of a dragon, when it comes to swooping in — blowing un-fun all over” I relate to this so much when I criticize ASOIAF.

The author also talked about the importance of POV when telling a story. And like, this isn’t the example the author used, but I’m gonna paraphrase what the author said to talk about the books, because I think it was such an important point that Mesle had, something that’s relevant to ASOIAF. So, this is not a direct quote below; this is paraphrasing and adapting what she said:

Rhaella was raped. Women are sometimes raped, that’s true and real, but given that the reader is positioned with Jaime, the narrative is telling us that the rape is mostly happening to him, is a significant part of his character development and our relationship with him. It’s completely unclear what the rape meant to Rhaella and the reason why is because the narrative just cares more about Jaime than Rhaella.

As I said, this isn’t exactly what Mesle was talking about (because I don’t want to touch that bullshit show), but this idea struck such a cord with me. How GRRM has a lot of the ~decorative~ background misogyny as something that happens to male characters, without fully exploring what it means for women like Rhaella and Elia and Tysha and Joanna.

(And obviously -- obviously!! -- GRRM isn’t as bad as the show in this regard, but there are some things that I wonder about, ok. Sometimes I wonder. What was it like for Cersei, in the sept scene in the books, when she said, “No, not here” and Jaime disregarded what she said? What was it like for Cersei, at Winterfell, when she said “Stop it” and those words didn’t seem to matter to Jaime? I ask these questions as an avid Jaime/Cersei shipper, as someone who believes GRRM just really sucks as writing consent, as someone who believes this is a long established part of the twins’ relationship, that Westerosi social roles have been so deeply ingrained on Cersei and her sex life ... but I still want to know ... what did it mean to Cersei, when she said “No” and the only person she trusts in the whole world didn’t listen?)

(God, there’s this scene in House of Cards, in season 2 (i think?) where Frank is about to go annihilate Claire’s rapist at a benefit dinner thingy, and Claire says “No” because she doesn’t want him to commit political suicide and Frank listens to her, and I love that scene so much, and to think about the flip side of that scene in ASOIAF, to think about how Jaime doesn’t listen to Cersei, how she therefore can’t tell Jaime everything (“Jaime would have killed [Robert], even if it meant his own life”) ... Cersei makes my heart ache, and I wish GRRM acknowledged that more, explored that more....)

Mesle writes, “men with [...] dreams get to indulge their wish fulfillment and women get something like realism. Does this sound familiar, this insistence on making the space for male desire, at all cost?” I don’t dare write how I think this applies to the books, so I’m just gonna leave this quote here....

anyways...

I’m gonna talk briefly about the show now, but only because I would like to be able to look back on this when I have ADOS in my hands and I would like to celebrate all the things GRRM didn’t do. so idk, show negativity ahead? If you’re following me, you know I don’t like the show, so this shouldn’t be a surprise??

I think Mesle articulates why I’m not super excited about Jon/Dany on the show, even though I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of Jon/Dany in the books.

Game of Thrones played the oldest trick in the “men write about women” book and took its most beautiful, powerful woman, Dany — all her beauty and strength and feather-coated narrative power — and deployed her in the service of the male heroics she begins the episode by dismissing. The real story of this episode, read that way, what’s different between its beginning and its end, is that at the beginning Daenerys thinks that male heroics are stupid, and at the end she has pledged her troth to them. The real romance this episode works to celebrate is not just between Dany and Jon, but between Dany’s feminine power and the brooding male heroics Jon represents. [x]

When the show writers turn Dany into Jon’s helpmeet ... when D&D turn Dany into the Strong Female Character who must assist Jon in fulfilling his Destiny to fight the Night King**, I can really understand it when people say that they really hate Jon/Dany. I think that Jon/Dany on the show is something very different from what GRRM will write.

Like, as I’ve said before, I ship Jon/Dany as the culmination of ASOIAF’s greatest themes, and the show doesn’t do themes, and that’s why I feel very little excitement. But hey, Kit and Emilia are pretty, so I guess the visuals will be nice and I’ll enjoy myself. I can’t wait to have more ASOIAF books in my hands, and then gif makers can plaster ASOIAF quotes all over that tv show.

** poorquentyn was talking about how "the show needed a central visual reference point for the Others, a clear singular nemesis, more than the books do. GRRM has indicated that Night’s King is not coming back in the books, and anyway, he wasn’t the Others’ leader, nor even an Other himself, but a human seduced by their power. Euron’s the equivalent of that in ASOIAF, and it’s likely we won’t see the Great Other/hivemind/whatever else is lurking in the heart of winter until we, y’know, get to the heart of winter. That doesn’t especially suit the show’s needs, though” [x]. So it’s turned into this showdown between Jon and the Night King that ... just isn’t that exciting to me?

I want the terrifying Lovecraftian weirdness of the Other Realm, I want it to be horrifying, I want Jon and Dany alone on that darkling plain from the “Dover Beach” poem GRRM keeps referencing. that’s where I ship Jon/Dany, a united, fierce light burning so brightly in the darkness.

Not this ... Strong Female Character realizes she was wrong and falls in love and helps The Hero defeat the Big Bad.

I JUST LOVE WHAT GRRM CAN DO WITH JON/DANY OK, PLEASE WRITE FASTER GEORGE, PLEASE. PLEASE COME THROUGH FOR ME, GEORGE, I HAVE FAITH IN YOU. PLEASE WRITE SOMETHING BETTER THAN THOSE HACKS. I’M ROOTING FOR YOU, GEORGE!!!!

#/#//#///#////#/////#lannister thoughts #gender in asoiaf #jaime x cersei #cersei lannister #cersei meta #jdmeta #rape tw #rhaella targaryen #jaime lannister #jon x dany #dany x jon #i really hope this doesn't appear in search #i linked to DA just to try to keep this out of search #idk these might be unpopular opinions??

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