strangefellows
suddenly and violently and all over the place
hi i'm kitty your local neurodivergent ace weirdo (she/they); i have lots of fandoms and i write and draw and liveblog | my writing is on ao3 @blackjacketsandpens | i do commissions!!
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also i want to hear your theories on the Aspect Dante mentioned in the prologue. Considering how little we know abt it it could be literally anything, but we know it must be engraved. Possibly something to do with Lobcorp?
Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure yet! For a while I wondered if it was something similar to what we see happen with Mirror IDs, 'engraving' the 'aspect' of someone onto someone or something else. But I'm not entirely sure how that fits with Dante's whole thing. Perhaps -- looking at my Ayin-is-Dante theory -- it has to do with how Ayin was gotten out of the Light? Or maybe it has something to do with the Well of Human Consicousness.
I'm not sure we know enough just yet to say, but hopefully we'll find out more soon!
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theres Canto 4 dialogue where Hermann asks Yi Sang if theres a way to destroy all mirror worlds. “Do you know of a way… to destroy all the worlds and the myriad possibilities they represent in the mirror and the glass window?”<direct copy paste from Limbus wiki. so I think in on the money with her motives
OH I FORGOT THAT BIT!! Thank you!!!! I think I was too busy remembering all the batshit insane Yi Sang/Ayin parallels in his backstory and the fact that Sang Yi/mirror Yi Sang has big vibes with the A from Day 50.
But you are SO right, that is definitely a big hint to Hermann's plan so we're getting close to figuring you out, lady.
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I have seen Canto 6. The whole reason Dante gets the Sapling of Light in the first place. Is because Dante didnt want Heathcliff tied down to his past like Erkling. oughhh starts biting.
yep!! yep yep yep!!! and also, in the same vein as helping sinclair/ishmael stand up to kromer/ahab, dante LITERALLY helping heath undistort and therefore giving carmen a big ol fuck you is those paralles TO THE MAX.
i am so insane over dante saving the sinners and guiding them to their paths vs ayin doing the EXACT SAME THING with the sephirah oh my godddddd
that bit heath says about THE TICKING CALLING THEM HOME im fuckin. feral over these parallels.
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Ayin’s presence allowing people to resist Carmen’s influence and manifest E.G.O instead, Dante talking to Sinclair and Ishmael and helping them resist Kromer/Ahab……….ohhhh my godd im going to. fuckign explode.
and the nervous system thing!!!!that make soooo much more sense!!!! when you remember about The Bucket.
YES! YES YOU SEE MY VISION, YOU GET IT. THE PARALLELS BETWEEN AYIN HELPING PEOPLE RESIST CARMEN AND GAIN EGO AND DANTE HELPING THE SINNERS RESIST THEIR FOILS AND FIND THEIR OWN PATH. (I won't spoil Canto 6 if you haven't seen it but POINTS AGGRESSIVELY AT DANTE AND HEATH TOO.)
/coughs, okay capslock over
And yes!! The Bucket, the tree, the connection between the Well of Human Consciousness that contains infinite possibilities -- hey wait didn't they say that about the Mirror Worlds too? ;) -- and our world, kinda like the World Tree in Norse Myths, bringing with it that sweet sweet forbidden knowledge....hehehehehe.
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there's something been bugging me about what ive seen abt thoughts abt ayin (as usual) and i am going to go on about it here under a cut (as usual) to get my thoughts out, and ofc i'm not tagging it bc i'm not here to be a hater SO
I keep seeing this thought that Ayin and X are entirely different people.
And to an extent, psychologically, yes! They are! I've mentioned this to people when discussing my theory before, but when I say that Dante is Ayin, I mean X, really. X!Ayin, the man he became by the end of those ten thousand years.
In early LobCorp, Angela says to X that "A, the founder" is dead.
And yes, he is. He's been killed over and over and OVER again in this facility over the course of ten thousand years, whether it's figuratively via the repeated memory removal or literally by his own hand only to be revived to continue the loops.
Ayin, A, the man who saw Carmen's death and devoted himself to fulfilling her dream at the cost of so many lives, the man who walked away from Elijah and hurt so many others intentionally or not, the man who created LobCorp, built Angela, and started the Smoke War, the man everyone hates....is dead. He's dead. He no longer exists.
Ayin, X, the man who woke up in this final loop and made things right, the man who spoke to the Sephirah, slowly growing the Seed of Light as he finally was able to connect with them and understand their pain, expecting no forgiveness but only wishing to see them find their own paths into tomorrow, the man who gave his life on the final day to see the Seed bloom, the man who built up a new existence from ten thousand years' worth of horrific experiences, but who used the dead man he once was as a foundation for them....is who I believe is Dante.
And to see people try to say that X is not Ayin in a way that implies or outright states they are literally two different people -- the implications being that they, as the person who played as X the Player Insert for so long, do not want to be associated with Ayin the 'monster, the cruel person who did all this', or simply that they just don't like Ayin and don't want X (or Dante) to be Ayin, because they like X and Dante -- really...really sucks.
Because it completely misses the point of those ten thousand years of character development Ayin got while being X, and the point I make that Ayin is Dante because despite all that character development, he never got to reach the finish line, let himself and the other characters benefit from who he became, find his own path. He was cut off right at the end of that character arc...which is why Dante, with their own story of finding themselves and who they are, meshes perfectly.
Now I've seen some really fun 'X is a clone' and similar theories that I don't hate at all, because they can absolutely still apply here and be utterly fascinating with Angela parallels, but there's a line before it gets to being the kind of thing that misses the point of Ayin and X's character.
To fully be X, to make the character arc make sense and work with Dante, he needs to still have Ayin's memories and experiences from before the facility. It's not that they're literally completely different people, they're the same person-- one just has 10 thousand years more experiences and character development that he might as well be a different person, metaphorically. A sort of Ship of Theseus, in a sense.
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I just read up on more of your Dante/X stuff an OUGH. YEAH. PANTHER MENTIONING THE SERPENT. THE SERPENT AND ADAM. I THINK LEVIATHAN SAID THAT AYIN WAS REBELLING AGAINST CARMEN? IDK HAVENT READ IT. But Adam, Abel and Abraham are sooooooo going to be showing up again, potentially having become their own entities thanks to the Light. And following through on Carmen’s plan to distort everyone.
On the topic of bad guy plans. Im calling it that Hermann wants to recreate Seed of Light and make a “perfect world” through purging all the lesser Mirror Worlds and making perfect humans in this one. Possibly the A trio could be her superiors?
YEAH LEVIATHAN OUTRIGHT CONFIRMED THAT AYIN'S PRESENCE IN THE LIGHT INDIRECTLY GAVE PEOPLE THE ABILITY TO GAIN EGO INSTEAD OF DISTORT BECAUSE HE DISAGREED WITH HER METHODS YEP YEP YEP!!!!
(Important to note it says that it's his presence that caused it, not him talking to people/taking action directly; which means that if he IS Dante, that doesn't take away from people being able to gain EGO.)
Oh my god, though. Oh my god if the Keter A Trio show up again I will lose my absolute fucking mind. I'm not sure that Abram would be on Carmen's side -- Abram is Ayin's reflection (Day 50 calls them reflections and references a mirror and I LOSE IT) representing his guilt over what happened as it is, so IDK if he'd wanna double down on Doing Bad Things -- and Abel is....he could go either way, since he's the reflection of apathy and giving in/giving up. Adam though, ABSOLUTELY. ABSO FUCKING LUTELY. IDK if you've played the Claim Their Bones intervallo, but that bit where Dante has a Corruption Moment thanks to the Monolith sounded a Fuck of a lot like Adam's dialogue. So yeah, Adam'd be 100% all in, he's Carmen's prophet after all.
As for Hermann and Co's plan...honestly, the recreating the Seed of Light thing and trying to make a perfect world? Yeah I can absolutely see that. I don't know whether they want to purge the Mirror Worlds or use them to find the 'perfect reality' or something, but either way that absolutely tracks as an idea for the plan.
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more theory time!!!!! yippee!!!!!
so on the limbus wiki page, it says this about the powers of the Golden Bough “its ability to resonate with a specific Sinner when close enough to them, revealing the fathoms of their ego and making a viewable presentation out of their past or psych”
You know who else had an E.G.O that manifested into a large domain? Angela and the Library. The Library has treelike qualities, and the Golden Boughs are mini trees. Could the Boughs be potential remnants of the Library? I am 100% certain that they are remnants of the Light, but could they be remnants of the Library specifically? Could that be why Dante has powers named after their Patron Librarians? (Aside from all the evidence that they are X/Ayin)
This is true!! But I think the Boughs are, well. Boughs because they're pieces of LobCorp's Singularity, which as we know was, uhhhhh Carmen's brain/nervous system, and famously the nervous system all spread out looks like a tree with branches itself. So I think that's why, HOWEVER! The Library being a tree is tied to that, too, given IIRC in Ruina it's implied Carmen nudged Angela a little into creating it, and there's a lot of talk comparing Carmen/etc to the Forbidden Fruit of Knowledge in the Bible...
Which the Sapling of Light Dante now has is labeled as being in Hebrew! The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
So TLDR I see your suggestions and I think it's all connected and connects back to Carmen and the Light, tbh!
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So, I went ahead and drew all 50 of my LobCorp Nuggets, oops!
The ones marked with asterisks are the ones I have bios for, for the most part, though that's changed since I drew this so check the Alt Text for the correct notes!
Please feel free to ask as many questions as you want about any of them, though, at the VERY LEAST they all have ages and what district they're from and a basic personality. If you like one that doesn't have an asterisk, I might end up brainstorming some more information about them!! I worked very hard on picking their EGO gearsets and gifts tbh. I love all of them.
*I will also note that Livia in Welfare, as well as all of Disc and Records are coparented by my BF, so questions about them might take a little bit to answer!
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since we’re getting a Philip Sinclair identity i would LOVE to get the rest of the Reverberation Ensemble too
I already have some ideas, namely Faust as Elena, Don as Oswald, Bremen as Yi Sang and Tanya as Outis
OH LORD ME TOO. ME FUCKIN TOO. I'm tbh a bit more biased towards the LobCorp Identities (i am making a fully Agent ID team eventually i swear) but the Ruina IDs slap severely I can't wait for Philclair.
As for the others....Oh I can see Faust Elena and Don Circus. Bremen Yi Sang is interesting!!! I like that, I didn't think about that. Tanya as Outis...maybe? Could also be Heath, I think, but then again I'm CONVINCED Heath is getting the Roland ID.
As for the others...Greta absolutely Ryoshu. Puppeteer fucker is harder, uhhh. Hm. Maybe Meursault, but that still doesn't feel right. Rodya I think would make a GREAT Elena as well, and Faust could also work with Eileen/Gear Lady. Hong Lu could also make a good Bremen! Pluto is also difficult, tbh, he's another that could be Meursault...hrrrrm. All good thoughts tho!
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also another interesting thing!!!! the arm in Gregor’s base E.G.O (Suddenly, One Day) has the symbols of Gebura, Hokma, Binah, Chesed and Malkuth. No Netzach, Keter, Hod or Tiphereth tho. Possibly could be because of his source character being Jewish and the Sephirot being from Jewish mysticism. Could be because of his relation to the Smoke War that was started by Lobcorp (that would explain Hokma’s symbol). I’m banking on Canto 13 being about reclaiming the bough stolen in Canto 1, and by then we would have a lot more Sapling of Light abilities, so it could be a reference to that. Idk its just real interesting how they kept some and excluded others.
YEAH I TOTALLY NOTICED THAT ABOUT GREGOR'S BASE EGO
It could be a nod to his ties to the Smoke War and his relationship to Judaism, and that would be really neat tbh! I definitely think we're gonna be getting back the Boughs we lost in Canto 1 and 6 at some point, Canto 13 would be a pretty good place to bring it full circle, especially because Gregor (and Rodya, and arguably Sinclair) didn't really get closure the same way as the others in their Cantos. We'll find out!
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ALSO I think this is interesting. When rereading the dialogue in the introduction scene during the prologue I noticed two things
1. The order the Sinners introduce themselves is the order we got the Cantos in. Gregor introduced himself first, Rodion second, Sinclair third, Yi Sang fourth, Ishmael fith, Heathcliff sixth, and Don Quixote seventh. So if this keeps up, Canto 8 will be Hong Lu’s, Canto 9 will be Ryōshū’s, Canto 10 will be Meursault’s, Canto 11 will be Outis’s, and Canto 12 will be Faust’s (and obviously Canto 13 will be Dante’s)
2. Dante shows a level of recognition to the words Fixer and Aspect, but doesn’t show this recognition when told their own name? When Don brings up Fixers, Dante says <A Fixer…? That definitely feels like a term I used to know…> (direct copy paste) and when Faust mentions the Aspect, Dante’s internal dialogue says “Aspect. A word that strikes my mind intensely. Even though my memories are gone, my underlying instincts are responding strongly to it.” (once again direct copy paste) but when Faust tells them their own name, they say it doesnt sound like a familiar word? Possibly implying that Dante is not their real name? Its food for thought.
1)Oh, yeah! Yep! I think that order people figured out by the order the Limbus twitter revealed them in? That's definitely what it looks like it's gonna be!
2)Ooooh, yeah I remember that! I've always assumed Dante isn't their real name, given the circumstances around them being told 'your name is Dante'-- it felt like they were giving him that name to conceal their true identity. So I definitely think you might be right there~
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oooh i think i got it! Yesod’s could be that all enemies are auto-staggered for the turn the ability is active
Oooh! That could work!! Oh man me and my tremor team love it already. Either auto stagger, or raise the stagger threshold for a turn, or remove ally Stagger thresholds for a turn like that one EGO Gift in MD. That sounds perfect!
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maybe Yesod could be envy/magnitas due to his purple colour scheme? still drawing blanks on both his and Tiphereth’s abilities tho
oooh yeah! purple man gets purple sin, that could work!
but yeah hrmmmm.
let's see, we know that Yesod's meltdown caused visual interference/static on the screen, and Tiph's...really doesn't do anything at all, haha. Info team bonuses increases work success rate %, while Command team bonuses affect Qliphoth Meltdown time. And Info team's upgrades affect visuals (seeing HP/SP bars and damage type/amount onscreen etc) while Command's are Shields against different damage types.
And as for Ruina help, Tech Science has a lot of Stagger related EGO pages, and Nat Science has...nothing specific EGO page wise, but it does hold all four magical girls.
hmmm. with all that in mind.... /ponders
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hiii its me the X!Dante guy. I was thinking more about the Sapling of Light abilities when i noticed something
Pigritia means Sloth, and its ability is to slow down time
See the connection?
So based on your theories for the rest of the abilities, we may be able to pin down some names.
Gebura-Iracundia (Wrath)-her ability will maybe be to increase ally damage output by 2x
Netzach-Edacitas (Gluttony)-potentially increase of ally defense or giving them an immunity to a certain kind of damage
Hod-Tristitia (Gloom in Latin, as there is no Greed in Limbus)-lower enemy morale perhaps?
Binah-Acedia-her ability im uncertain about because speeding up time would be somewhat redundant gameplay wise with Pigritia already existing, unless they implement it in a unique way thats not “increase ally speed”
Malkuth-Exaltatio (Pride)-reshuffle enemy skills to be weaker
Chesed-Vanagloria (Vainglory)-changing sin affinities into what the enemy is weak against
This is as far as I can get tbh. Would love to see how this plays out ingame
OH I LOVE ALL OF THIS, I definitely see where you got all of them, I can definitely see this being the case. Yesod is, again, extremely tricky haha XD
As for Chesed, it could be that, or it could be changing the enemy's weakness to be fatal for All Affinities briefly - i think there's an MD EGO Gift that does that - or it could be resource generation, like Coffee and Cranes to give us more resources to use EGO? One of those things, possibly!
Hmmmm. Man. Yesod. Why you so difficult mr purple man.
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Oh btw Yi Sang is also the same height as Dante n Ayin
YAY, MORE PROOF OF MY AYIN AND YI SANG PARALLELS XD
but no really we're going to inevitably get to the library/meet the sephirah and if dante IS X!ayin it's gonna legit be like TWO OF THEM???? HE MULTIPLIED???? it'll be hilarious.
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hi its me. the Dante is X anon. Ive been rotating Sapling of Light abilities in my mind all dayyy so heres my takes on which Sephirot we’ll get abilities from next for Sapling of Light and what those abilities will be (get ready for some wild speculation)
We seem to be descending down the tree/the floors of the Library, so my prediction is its going to be Hokma, Binah, Chesed, Gebura, Tiphereth, Netzach, Hod, Yesod and then lastly Malkuth
now for predictions on abilites, Hokma’s is to slow down time, and his symbol was a clock, so going off that, Binah’s could potentially be locking/unlocking something because her symbol is a key (or looks like one) Dante also mentioned the ability to speed up time, so maybe we’ll get that too. Gebura’s is definitely going to be something to do with damage output, maybe enhancing it 2x? honestly idk about the others. Netzach’s might be a healing/defense ability like immunity or something based off his nature motif. Feel free to speculate on the other abilities for me
Hokma’s ability name is Pigritia, which is Latin for sloth, so the rest of the abilities will definitely follow that trend (maybe thats why its called knowledge of all good and evil because its assembled like the tree of life but the abilities are all named after sins) a cool thing to do here would be to name some abilities after the sins from the circles of hell exclusive to the Divine Comedy (Treachery, Heresy, and Violence) because you know who else speaks Latin? Dante Alighieri
As for when we will get the rest of the abilities, with six Cantos left and eight abilities, we’ll definitely get some during Intervallos, I do hope we get Gebura’s ability during Don Quixote’s Canto. For obvious reasons. Definitely think the Keter ability will be gained during Dante’s own Canto, as Keter is represented by Angela and if the Dante is X theory is true, they are connected to Angela through her being their assistant (also parallel between them with Angela being intended as a copy of Carmen who became her own person and Dante/X being a copy of Ayin who becomes their own person)
idk how to end this. several paragraphs in your inbox jumpscare.
GIANT ASK JUMPSCARE I LOVE WAKING UP TO THIS HELLO YES THANK YOU
i've been rotating the same thing in my head too honestly, and i do think it'll go reverse order in that way, like going down the stairs of the library, that makes a lot of sense.
and abilities have been stumping me so i absolutely love your thoughts on that-- geb's being damage based felt the easiest to pin down, and netzach's being healing fits too!! also, maybe something to do with their breakdowns in lobcorp or that kind of skills their library floors are good at? i had a thought about chesed doing something for sin attributes similarly to a) his deterrence effect in his meltdown and b) the fact that paper chairman/coffee and cranes has chesed vibes
speeding up time might work for binah too because she turns off the tt2 protocol effects in her meltdown as well! not sure about tiphereth, but given malkuth changes the works around in her meltdown, maybe she'll give you the ability to reshuffle skills around or something? hod did sedatives to lower the agents' stats, so maybe hers will lower enemy stats. yesod is....a bit more difficult though. hm.
YEAH THE SINS THING TOO DEF!! there's only six sins left and 9 sephirah, so they might DEFINITELY go for the ones in the inferno, and there are also two sins that were cut from the current seven, acedia as its own thing more like apathy than sloth, and vanagloria, or vainglory, a different flavor of pride, so those could slot in for the last two as well!
i definitely agree we'll get some abilities during intervallos and events as well, given the amount of cantos left, and MAN. MAN YEAH. donqui and geb's ability would work so well. and agree on all the thoughts about Keter too.
(please keep up the asks if you have any more thoughts i am enjoying this immensely!!)
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this might be me grasping at straws, but i looked at both the LoR wiki and the Limbus wiki and Dante and Ayin are both the exact same height, 176cm, or 5’9
personally, I prefer the “Dante is X” theory because we get that juicy storyline of self realisation and becoming your own person while also making it so that technically the Dante is Ayin theory is true. also the Sapling of Light abilities represent the Sephirot, number one that is so fucking cool but also we seem to start at Keter, which could be interesting since Angela was represented by Keter and she was X’s assistant.
I'M SORRY THEY'RE THE SAME FUCKING HEIGHT???? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT OH MY GOD. I'll take it!!
And honestly, yeah-- I tend to say 'Dante is Ayin theory' because it's a bit easier, but them being X really fits with my whole Thing about the faceless/voiceless self-realization parallels in the theory that you pointed out! Because I mean, in LobCorp itself they say more or less that "A" (or rather, the Ayin from before the facility) is metaphorically dead, and even though X is Ayin, he's absolutely not the same person as he was before after all this, and he never got to figure out who he WAS/IS now because, well, yeah. He go poof. /gestures at you you are very Correct tbh
also YEAH to the sapling of light stuff!! we do start at keter, and that really is fantastic because of what you said about angela and that keter was technically X/Ayin's own core suppressions etc. So it works very well.
#projmooblogging#x is ayin and not ayin at the same time tbh#and when i say 'ayin' re: my theory i basically mean X!Ayin specifically#the pov character in lobcorp x!ayin rather than the day 50 mirror ayin we meet#or any other ayin
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