septonbarth
septon barth is the shit
"no man of humble birth ever rose as high as the plainspoken but brilliant septon."better than your maesters since always
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“you came back. you came to tend your ailing father.”
the king was senile. jaehaerys the conciliator may once have been a great king. but now his mind was feeble, his body frail, and his health was failing. he is old, alicent thought as she came to sit by the king.
alicent did not much wish to tend to him, either. “he’s not my grandfather,” she’d told her father, who’d given her a look. “be dutiful, my dear. be gracious. be attentive. when the king dies it will mean our continued place at court.” alicent rather thought there were other ways to do this, but her father didn’t listen to her. so here she was, sitting by king jaehaerys’ bedside as he reached a thin, liver-spotted hand to her. at least he hadn’t fouled his bed this time.
“i did,” she sighed. at first she’d tried to reason with him when first he’d confused her for his own blood. (“your daughters had the silver hair of your wife, your grace. i’ve brown hair.” but perhaps his eyes were too feeble and his mind too old.) now she did not bother.
“was it a long journey, my saera?” he asked her and he took her hand in his. “was it hard? i’ve missed you. more and more as time goes on. why did you leave?”
“i left…” alicent scrambled. she knew the princess saera had fled court, knew that she had gone off across the sea where, it was said, she ran a brothel. what a fine use of her status and blood. “it doesn’t matter anymore, father. what matters is i’ve returned.”
there were tears in the king’s eyes–pale now with cataracts. “you look like your mother. you just missed her. she…she…” and the tears dribbled down his cheeks.
“she is at peace,” alicent said. she’d attended the queen’s funeral, had seen the king’s distress at his wife’s passing. perhaps that was what had destroyed him. men at court–her father among them–had long said that queen alysanne had shared his heart and mind. was it then little wonder that both seemed to be failing jaehaerys in his final days?
“peace…” the king said. “that’s nice. i tried to bring the realm peace, saera. let it never be said i didn’t. after the war my cousin maegor brought…” he began to cough, and mucus gathered at the corner of his lips.
“don’t tire yourself, father,” alicent said. “for my sake. rest. i’m here with you.”
the king looked at her, but he did not see her. his eyes flitted about her face. “i never forgot you, you know,” he said. “not once. i never… never could. i hope you were happy away from court? were you? i only wanted happiness for all of you. and peace.”
“i was,” alicent said dully, having no true idea if princess saera was happy or not.
“good. good,” the king said and his eyes drooped closed. “good.”
and moments later, he was snoring, his hand limp in hers.
alicent tucked it at his side. she went to the desk in the corner and took up a quill, and began to write.
princess, though i know not whether you still know yourself by that title,
your father is ailing and longs to see you before he passes. i know the journey is long, and he may well have passed by the time this letter reaches you–would you consider returning from volantis to say goodbye?
but even as she scratched the words she noticed the room was oddly quiet. and when she looked up at the bed, jaehaerys the conciliator had stopped snoring.
#um what the fuck? why?#jae lives on eternal in my heart#screw this screw everything#ma main man jae
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Hi! Who are the famous inventors and scientists in the asoiaf universe? For the life of me I can't remember any. Thanks!
I….can’t remember either. TBH, this is the type of thing I’d immediately forget though. In text, Marwyn stands out to me quite a bit even though his pursuits seem to be in the magical/dragon arena than in strict science as we understand it.
There’s also Septon Barth who features a few times in the series itself and quite often in the world book. He wrote a book on fire worms and dragons and obliquely hinted on how to kill a dragon (a point which I’d bet money will be relevant later in the series). He also figured out how ravens were once used by the children. If a statement comes up from him in the text, anywhere, we as readers should take it as a truth.
Really, specific names seemed to be more connected to magic than science. In text, it tends to be regions or cities that are known for their inventions. Think Myr and their lacemaking and glasscrafting, for example. Or, the Iron Born which have their distinctive long ships. It’s a design exclusive to them. Braavos has their snails which the city used to become famous for with its purple dye. Tyrosh is known for its great skill with armorsmithing.
That’s really all that comes to mind right now. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help!!! Thanks for the ask anon!
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“come my loves, come quickly.”
“mother?”
jaehaerys rubbed sleep from his eyes, confused and alysanne wiggled her way to the edge of the bed.
“mother, what’s happening?” her boy asked.
“up, my love. we must go.”
“go?” jaehaerys looked at alysanne who was now standing next to the bed, her head cocked curiously at her mother.
“yes, go. grab your cloaks now.”
“mother,” alysanne asked slowly. “mother, why do you have a sword?”
she had wrapped dark sister in plain brown cloth so that it would not be easily recognizable, but alyssa never carried a sword, so even though it was mostly hidden under her cloak, her daughter, her clever daughter, had noticed it immediately.
“i’ll explain later,” she said. “into your cloak now, aly. come.”
jaehaerys was finally out of bed and moving quickly, tugging boots on and going to find his cloak. alysanne picked up a satchel by the wardrobe and began stuffing it with things–her hairbrush, some necklaces, a doll.
“aly, there’s no time for that, we must leave now. we’ll come back for all that later.”
“why?” alysanne asked. “what has happened.”
“your great aunt is dead,” alyssa said, and alysanne whipped around. “she died earlier in the night. if we’re to get out of this place we must leave. and now.”
“where?” jaehaerys asked now, and he threw alysanne’s cloak to her. alysanne was crouching down now below the little dressing table and alyssa blinked as she saw her daughter dump the items she’d put in the satchel out of it and begin stuffing the thing with coins. where did she get those?
where did i get the sword?
pride swelled in her breast at the sight.
“driftmark,” alyssa said. “your grandfather’s house. he will know where to hide us from there, and driftmark is not so far if we can find a ship to carry us.”
“and if we can’t?” alysanne and jaehaerys asked at once. both were ready, and cloaked. alyssa lifted the hoods to hide their lovely, silvery hair.
“we will,” alyssa promised. “i swear we will.”
“is that dark sister?” jaehaerys asked pointing to the sword, and alyssa felt her neck stiffen, and alysanne looked sharply at her mother. is that you, gooddaughter? come to ease my aches and pains as i eased your husband’s?
“yes, my love, it is.”
jaehaerys took a deep breath. “good. if she killed father, then we should have her sword.”
“never repeat those words,” alyssa said firmly.
“but you said–” aly began.
“never. we do not know that she did, no matter how likely i think it is. maegor is cruel and weak and–worse–stupid. neither of you must ever be stupid. we cannot afford it. now come.”
#l i s t e n#if aly and jae are like super dope#they got it from their mama#who is the dopest of dope queens#did you see this?#did you see how she just fuckin' grabbed the sword and ran?#what a boss#what an actual irl boss#inspirational i say#super magic queen alysanne#ma main man jae#dopest queen alyssa
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mockingjaybrandybuck sent this prompt via replies:
Jaehaerys and Alysanne
She is not just his sister and his queen, she is his best friend too. The history books record the role his mother and Lord Robar played in pushing forward his claim to the throne, and gathering the support of the lords of the realm. They do not record Jaehaerys’ doubts and fears, unusual in one who would become known as decisive. There is no record of Alysanne’s support, given at this early time, the wise counsel from one so young that helped ease her brother’s doubts.
She became known as Good Queen Alysanne, but for Jaehaerys she has always been good, long before she was queen.
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minor character aesthetics [6/?]: septon barth
“Septon Barth’s claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth’s queerer beliefs and suppositions.”
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asoiaf meme (minor characters): 1/1 king ~ jaehaerys i
Though young to the throne, Jaehaerys revealed himself from an early age to be a true king. He was a fine warrior, skilled with lance and bow, and a gifted horseman. He was a dragonrider as well, riding upon Vermithor—a great beast of bronze and tan who was the largest of the living dragons after Balerion and Vhagar. Decisive in thought and deed, Jaehaerys was wise beyond his years, always seeking the most peaceable ends. // halit ergenç as old jaehaerys, patrick gibson as young jaehaerys
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TARGARYEN WEEK
day 6: one relationship → jaehaerys i and good queen alysanne
For forty-six years, the Old King and Good Queen Alysanne were wed, and for the most part it was a happy marriage, with children and grandchildren aplenty.
Two estrangements are recorded, but they did not last more than a year or two before the pair resumed their customary friendship. The Second Quarrel, however, is of note, as it was due to Jaehaerys’s decision in 92 AC to pass over his granddaughter Rhaenys—the daughter of his deceased eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon—in favor of bestowing Dragonstone and the place of heir apparent on his next eldest son, Baelon the Brave. Alysanne saw no reason why a man should be favored over a woman…and if Jaehaerys thought women of less use, then he would have no need of her. They reconciled in time, but the Old King outlived his beloved queen, and in his last years it was said that the grief of their parting hung over his court like a pall. // halit ergenç as jaehaerys, essie davis as alysanne,
#there's just#a lil#tear#in#my#eye#nothing#major#hahaha#the ultimate otp right there#gods aly and jae loved each other so dang much#super magic queen alysanne#jae my man#the boss and his fam
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Dragons Like You Don’t Usually See Them by Brian Kesinger.
#dragons are the shit#dragons: they're just like us#feelings and thoughts and character and everything#they're just so much man#so much
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Do you think Marwyn the Mage is the "modern" Septon Barth?
That’s definitely true to a certain extent–the intellectual voraciousness, the rumors of sorcery, the role of chief advisor to a Targaryen monarch (coming soon in Marwyn’s case). The Mage, though, is considerably…weirder than Barth, with less interest in sensible administration and a more dedicated and wide-ranging focus on the skin-crawling eldritch side of things, perhaps the result of spending so much time abroad as Magic Indiana Jones. (Or perhaps his interests drove him beyond the horizon in the first place; chicken or the egg, I suppose.) IMO this is fitting because while Barth as the Old King’s Hand presided over a time of relative peace and prosperity, Marwyn’s only a step ahead of the apocalyptic “black and bloody tide” as he races to the silver queen. The Mage is the version of Barth you want at your side as the world ends. He’s a wartime Barth, if you will, for when the enemy isn’t your fellow man (or, y’know, sewage problems) but the army of the dead and their demonic masters.
#peer review#sure fine i guess#''wartime barth''#i'd have kicked ass in war ok?#but lack of evidence i supposeeee
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I always approve of ladies having a chill time with dragons. Who needs to be a damsel in distress?
artist unknown
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Alysanne, was also well loved throughout the realm, being both beautiful and high-spirited, as well as charming and keenly intelligent. Some said that she ruled the realm as much as the king did, and there was some truth to that. It was at her behest that King Jaehaerys at last forbade the right of the First Night, despite the many lords who jealously guarded it. And the Night’s Watch came to rename the castle of Snowgate in her honor, dubbing it Queensgate instead. They did this in thanks for the treasure in jewels she gave them to pay for the construction of a new castle, Deep Lake, to replace the huge and ruinously costly Nightfort, and for her role in winning them the New Gift that bolstered their flagging strength.
make me choose: anonymous asked Alysanne Targaryen or Alysane Mormont
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I have been reading the World Book and it is weirding me out how all these queens exist just to suffer. Westeros offers no cultural, courtly, or spiritual power to them at all. Even Henry the Eighth's wives had more control than this.
I agree and I don’t. Certainly the queens’ lives do, and should, provoke a lot of visceralsympathy. They’re extraordinarily privileged in lots of ways, but are also subjectto this terribly intimate experience of being controlled. And AWOIAF very muchdoes emphasize that aspect of the Targaryen queens’ lives.
But I actually don’t think it’s the whole story. AWOIAF readslike a textbook, but it’s not. It’s written through the POVof a character who’s operating from a specific framework. Like all the othernarrators in the series, Yandel has his blind spots. Specifically, he’s aproduct of not just a medieval-ish world, but of that world’s conventionalacademy. That means he has fundamental assumptions about what counts as power,or influence, or even personal agency. His depiction of the queens’ lives asbeing limited to the painful things that are done to them is at least in partbecause he doesn’t know where to look for a lot of the things they could haveaccomplished within their own spheres of influence. If Yandel sat down to writean entry on, say, Catelyn Stark, she would come across in the same way. Hewould understand that her death was a terrible violation of social norms, buthe wouldn’t grasp Catelyn as the subject of her own story who influenced eventsin her own right.
That taps into a real life discourse about how we understandfemale historical figures, right? It’s absolutely true that, say, CatherineParr had to walk on eggshells around an unhinged despot while ducking fire fromthe powerful men around him. It’s also true that she was an influentialcourtier to her husband to a point where he trusted her to effectively ruleEngland in his absence, an early role model for her stepdaughter, and a prettyradical religious philosopher. People are a lot more likely to know the formerset of facts than the latter.
This is for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that hardpower/soft power is a distinction that is pretty distinctly gendered in thiscontext, and that’s going to affect how someone like Yandel would understandevents after the fact. A king putting an army into the field is something thatmakes it into the history books; a queen talking a king out of putting an armyinto the field doesn’t usually make it into the record. AWOIAF is written fromthe perspective of someone who’s not only limited in what they can know aboutthese historical events, but who isn’t even disposed to look for the dimensionin which the queens might be most disposed to operate. I don’t want tooverstate this, as I think we’re sometimes tempted to do when it comes to typesof influence other than conventional hard power. The queens aren’t the ~secretpuppetmasters. But they’re not as lacking in agency as Yandel believes them tobe.
Yandel’s blind spots track onto mundane preconceptions of how todefine power or influence. But the queens most closely profiled in AWOIAF areTargaryens, and the Targaryen conception of royal power veers off in adirection that challenges both of those dichotomies. “Dragonsare neither male nor female,” right? The Targaryen dynasty, its approach to andconstruct of power, is shaped not around kings, but dragonlords. A dragon isthe ultimate weapon. Three dragons are stronger than tens of thousands oftroops. But that’s actually pretty difficult to turn into the leverage that youneed to rule, because your only option in a conflict is to go scorched-earth.If you want to destroy a country with dragons, that’s pretty straightforward.If you want to rule a country by way of dragons, you need a lot of finesse.
That distinguishes the Targaryens in a lot of ways, but asubtler one is that there’s less daylight between Targaryen kings and queensthan there was in the Andal dynasties. Dragons don’t care if their riders aremale or female, which means that queens or kings can wield their greatestweapon. The early Targaryen dependence on dragons means that they’re also farmore reliant on diplomacy, which is the type of power that is conventionallyavailable to queens, and which the historians Yandel collects his informationfrom would be less likely to appreciate.
That, in turn, means that he can’t appreciate the decline instatus of the Targaryen queens. Rhaenyra’s failed bid for thethrone is the death of the dragons as a species, but it’salso a crisis point where the Targaryens as Valyrian dragonlords gave way tothe Targaryens as Westerosi monarchs. Whatever does linger of the old ideasabout queenship is a part of Targaryen otherness, and Yandel doesn’thave an interest in depicting, or even thinking of, that in a positive light.
So yes, there’s a lot of disturbing stuff. ButI think the suffering eclipses a lot of other dimensions to the queens’lives in ways that are congruent with some of the most interesting aspects ofhow the Targaryens interacted with Westeros.
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Hi! So I was reading TWOIAF... and Maester Yandel writes that the death of Aegon and Rhaenys may have been orchestrated by princess Elia. But isn't it common knowledge that Gregor Clegane and Ser Amory killed them? Why would he write this?
Two points here.
#1: It’s not common knowledge. Ned Stark was there when the bodies of Elia and her children were presented to Robert by Tywin, he knows that Tywin ordered their deaths, and yet his narrative tells us he only knows the details of the murders through rumors:
Some said it had been Gregor who’d dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall, and whispered that afterward he had raped the mother, the Dornish princess Elia, before putting her to the sword.
Now, Tyrion says who killed Elia, and how, is common knowledge in Casterly Rock. But Casterly Rock is not King’s Landing, and it’s very much not the Citadel. Even Varys only has the story from his spies:
“My little birds tell me that Princess Elia cried a… certain name… when they came for her.”
And later, Tywin informs Tyrion that such information cannot be considered valid:
“Oberyn knows that Gregor was the one who…”“He knows nothing. He has heard tales. Stable gossip and kitchen calumnies. He has no crumb of proof. Ser Gregor is certainly not about to confess to him.”
#2: Maester Yandel is an unreliable narrator. Whenever you read TWOIAF, you need to remember there’s an in-world author bias. Yandel was writing his book as a gift for King Robert Baratheon. (Although he took so long working on it that he had to erase Robert’s name from the dedication page*, put in Joffrey instead**, and then erase that and replace it with Tommen.***) It’s not a straightforward history – it’s meant to flatter Robert. And Robert’s relatives, including his rich and powerful father-in-law Tywin Lannister. Therefore, how could a historical record possibly include the information that Tywin ordered his men to murder Rhaegar’s children to please Robert, let alone that one of those men also raped and murdered Princess Elia? No, no, Yandel must be an unbiased reporter of history and give equal time to the far more reasonable whispers thatElia killed her children to protect them, or that Mad Aerys had them killed. And of course it’s simply tragic “that those who ravished and murdered Princess Elia escaped justice.” Yes.
*That part of the dedication page is sadly hilarious:
**The changeover from Robert to Joffrey also required a rework of the history to flatter the new king. This can especially be seen in the last section of the Robert’s Rebellion chapter, and the various sections describing the Greyjoy Rebellion. Paragraphs that must have originally praised Ned and Stannis for their generalship and their success in battle, were heavily edited to exclude them from the narrative after Joffrey declared them traitors. Their absence from the recorded history, and the awkwardness of the record without Ned and Stannis, is very deliberate. (Elio Garcia even said he hoped to use a different color of “parchment” for those pages, to show they had been edited, but it didn’t work out with the printers.)
***According to Elio, Yandel is currently hanging around in KL hoping to gift his book to Tommen. It’s anyone’s guess whether he will be able to, or whether he’ll still be there when another king takes over. And if it’s Aegon, Yandel will need to heavily edit TWOIAF yet again, to insert a pro-Targaryen bias into the RR chapter and write off the Baratheon dynasty as bad times all around. (If he doesn’t get executed for his treacherous book first, of course.) And then if Aegon goes down… well, Elio once said he hoped to release a revised edition of TWOIAF after all the books are done, with the secrets included instead of edited out this time– I would very much like to see that, and compare it to the original, one day.
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Hello 🙋🏼 Sorry for the gaggle of Q's, I'm sure you've heard this a lot, but Asshai's physical description ( i.e. geography, river ash, black stone & dark nights ) as well evil inhabitants really gives me a Minas Morgul vibe, especially in regards to Stygai. Do you think dragons may actually be in the caves of Asshai? I know the birth of Daenerys's dragons really strengthened magic in the world once more. Also do you think Dragons originally hail from Asshai & not the fourteen flames?
GRRM says “there were dragons all over, once”. The Valyrians supposedly found dragons nesting in the Fourteen Flames, but they didn’t necessarily originate from those volcanoes. Or Asshai, even. Perhaps that Qartheen myth about the cracked moon-egg is actually true. Mind you, there is also this:
In Septon Barth’s Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns, he speculated that the bloodmages of Valyria used wyvern stock to create dragons. Though the bloodmages were alleged to have experimented mightily with their unnatural arts, this claim is considered far-fetched by most maesters, among them Maester Vanyon’s Against the Unnatural contains certain proofs of dragons having existed in Westeros even in the earliest of days, before Valyria rose to be a power. –TWOIAF
However, while I normally believe Septon Barth was right about almost everything, GRRM’s own words argue against him here. Still, maybe the Valyrian bloodmages did experiment on wyverns, or on dragons to make them more fierce – or more attuned to the Valyrians. Or maybe it wasn’t Valyrian bloodmages that created dragons from wyverns, but a far older people… maybe even the founders of Asshai-by-the-Shadow, the city whose current inhabitants claim that it has existed since the world began.
As for Asshai, Bran did dream it was a place where “dragons stirred beneath the sunrise”, and while that might be real or maybe metaphorical or maybe a vision of existing dragons or maybe a prophecy of something yet to happen, GRRM has categorically refused to answer the question. And I can’t answer either, without more evidence. So we’ll just have to wait and see, sorry!
#peer review#i fuckin' love it when people like me better than the citadel#IN YOUR FACE YANDEL#i'm stickin' to my interpretation this martin fellow can't even do math
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Today’s problem
what do chairs for dragons look like.
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The World Of Ice And Fire meme
↳ 7/7 Dates: 101 AC - The Great Council
And from all corners of the realm the lords came. No castle could hold so many save for Harrenhal, so it was there that they gathered. The lords, great and small, came with their trains of bannermen, knights, squires, grooms, and servants. And behind them came yet more—the camp followers and washerwomen, the hawkers and smiths and carters. Thousands of tents sprang up over the moons, until the castle town of Harrenton was accounted the fourth largest city of the Realm.
At this council, nine lesser claimants were heard and dismissed, leaving only two primary claimants to the throne: Laenor Velaryon, son of Princess Rhaenys—who was the eldest daughter of Jaehaerys’s eldest son, Aemon—and Prince Viserys, eldest son of Baelon the Brave and Princess Alyssa. Each had their merits, for primogeniture favored Laenor, while proximity favored Viserys, who was also the last Targaryen prince to ride Balerion before the dragon’s death in 94 AC. Laenor himself had recently acquired a dragon, a splendid creature that he named Seasmoke. But for many lords of the realm, what mattered most was that the male line take precedence over the female line—not to mention that Viserys was a prince of four-and-twenty while Laenor was just a boy of seven.
#ma main man jae#look let me say#he did his best ok?#like how fucking forward thinking is this?#he didn't want the kidlets to fight
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