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Hellaverse Theories: Helluva Boss S1E1 and S1E2

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Going this time into Helluva Boss, which shouldn’t be as long as my Hazbin Hotel analyses so I’ll probably be putting two episodes into each post, because HB is very much more about the interpersonal drama and setting than about HH’s cosmic-scale conflicts. However, HB does provide some very interesting context for HH, if they still exist in the same universe, and also interpersonal stuff is fun, so we’ll see how it goes. (Plus—trailer for the second half of season 2 means speculation! Whee! Obviously spoilers for that are here!)

(Also disclaimer that I’m not going through the rigamarole of finding that special slashed-O character so I’m spelling his name Blitzo and we all know the O is silent now, right? Right.)

Starting with Helluva Boss s1e1:

So one of my good friends got me into Hazbin Hotel, but she didn’t mention Helluva Boss to me because she didn’t think I would like it. She was almost right. I liked the style, the characters were fun, but the constant slapstick violence and edgy humor were really off-putting (as in, if that’s all the show was going to be, it wasn’t for me). It wasn’t until episode 5 that I stopped actively wanting to click away (Blitzo/Striker/Moxxie fight was real good okay), and episode 6 got me hooked like a very stupid fish (CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT). However, there’s still a lot to chew on in these early episodes.

Like the alarm lights under Blitzo’s desk. One of them says “client giving birth” and I am DESPERATE to know the story behind that one (or, like, read the fanfic inspired by it). Another says “ghost” (which, given that they’re in Hell, is hysterical, but also…season 2.5, Blitzo and Millie appear to investigate a haunted house. What is their policy on ghosts, exactly?). The rest seem pretty standard to me. Yes, even the “Stolas” one.

One of the things about this show (and Hazbin but let’s stick with where we’re at) that makes me particularly feral is all the background details. For instance: the very subtle signs that Martha and her family aren’t quite right. Lots of guns in the background, subtle bone décor, a literal child’s head mounted on the wall. Classic. Love that human spine lamp, Martha, do you have an Etsy?

Moxxie making little dog noises as his imp sounds is forever the cutest thing actually. Kinda wish I knew what it was that makes Millie’s chittering sounds, because she is equally adorable, just more unrecognizable.

Hazbin Hotel sometimes makes one question why children end up in Hell. Helluva Boss is here to say, “This. This is why. This is why kids end up in Hell sometimes.” Though there is still a huge question of nature vs. nurture in that argument (plus, y’know, since nobody knows what gets a soul into Heaven, they don’t know what gets a soul into Hell, either, but I digress).

This introduction to Stolas (for those of us who didn’t watch the pilot first) definitely shows a different sort of person than the Stolas we get later, which seems to be a favorite thing of Viv’s to do and a thing I’d be more upset about if it wasn’t so effective. Having watched so many times now, I’m starting to finally pick up on the music choices, and hearing Stolas’ song even this early really changes the tone of things, knowing the lyrics that get applied to it later (lol let’s watch Stolas set up the very thing that causes him so much grief later, this won’t end badly and my heart isn’t currently breaking at all).

Alright, diverting to Cosmic Plot for a bit: there are a lot of twig shapes hanging in the trees that look like eyes, and the beam that Millie and Blitzo are tied to has root and eye motifs carved into it. Martha invokes Satan first (in saying they’re going to return his filthy creatures, which is sort of correct, if the lore that imps descend from/were created by Satan is still true), but then says, “may the Root of Evil be honored as we continue thy work.” So, uh. Hey, Roo, the underlying Big Bad of the entire Hellaverse probably, nice to see the roots (pun really not intended, in fact done everything to be avoided, but no other word works dammit) of it being laid out early and in a way that rewards multiple viewings.

Speaking of multiple viewings: Blitzo pulling Moxxie close and threatening him with “if you ever pull a stunt like this again, I’ll fuck you AND your wife” really loses its teeth when you consider how much Blitzo loves insinuating himself into their lives and would be on cloud nine if they agreed to a threesome :P just. Blitzo there’s better ways to proposition people. Come on. “Jelly sandwiches all night” THERE’S a proposition, that’s how it’s done XD (gosh if they ever release the uncut version of whatever the heck Bryce was saying in the booth I think we’ll all pass away)

Moxxie electing to call the cops on Ralph (and subsequently get all three of them torpedo’d straight down to Hell anyway) is a strange choice, knowing he was raised in a mafia family, but even stranger is him thinking that the human authorities would deal with them fairly. Really drives home that despite their proximity, creatures of Hell really don’t get how Earth works. Or that Moxxie is a cream puff. Either way—

Y’know. I really, REALLY wonder how IMP doesn’t come under fire more from previous targets who wind up in Hell, and I am REALLY looking forward to the episode where it finally happens (sidenote to wonder if Martha and her family wound up in Hell at all, or…wherever Roo is).

On to Episode 2!

After introducing Stolas the way they did (aka as an aloof noble with a crush on Blitzo who is really condescending and also horny), the best thing they could possibly do was show that he’s a doting (if increasingly out of touch) father in a rancid marriage. Like. How dare you take this silly little guy and give him real feelings and real problems. How DARE you.

Which all gets worse if you consider how YOUNG Stolas was when he became a father; people calling him middle-aged have it wrong. Thirty-five at least is NOT middle-aged. That is a man still in his prime, not counting the fact that he’s an immortal demon prince. He’s practically a BABY. He had to have been not quite twenty by the time Via was laid and hatched, and HE LOVES HIS LITTLE GIRL SO MUCH—

(Also, the term for a young owl is “owlet,” but then I saw Bryce Pinkham spell it “owlette” in an Instagram post and now I understand where the different spellings in fanfic come from now. It’s more endearing knowing the voice actor is doing it. Even if it’s still wrong :P unless the script is deliberately going for “owlette” as in a female owl; even more permissible, if still annoying.)

“Now all my stories have been told except for one.” Okay. Okay. Hang on a second. Just gotta—hang on a second here. Stolas’ lullaby is a little morbid alongside it being sweet, because he’s essentially telling his daughter “even if I’m dead, you’ll be okay,” which has. So many layers to unpack. Helluva Boss seems to have as one of its major themes self-hatred and the ways it fucks up not only the person who has it, but their relationships, too. Stolas has zero self-worth, or very close to it. Telling his daughter that it doesn’t matter what happens to him is training her for her future as his precautionary heir—because her Goetia-given purpose in life is to take over his duties in case of his death—but it’s also him saying “I’m not that important, you’ll be alright without me.” Which is NOT his call to make. It’s also very sad that he says all of his stories have already been told but one—the story of his death—when he can’t be more than twenty-five at most (trying to do math, which is not one of my strong suits—if we assume 10 was when he met Blitzo, then 25 years later reconnected at 35, and Via is 17 when he’s 35…he would have had to have had her at 18…and if she’s no more than 5 or 6 in this sequence…he would be…23, oh my WORD). I’ve been suicidal and depressed at twenty-three, but I didn’t have a kid and a loveless marriage during it; I can only imagine the necessity of his Happy Pills, to be at the very beginning of a long eternal life and looking at it all with such desolation.

There’s such desperate hope in the lullaby, too; Stolas thinks it’s all over for him, and one day it’ll be over for all of creation, but despite it all, his little girl is still going to be okay. He’s in tears at the sight of her falling asleep thanks to his comforting. He loves her so much. He wants her to be okay when he isn’t anymore. And while that’s sweet, it’s also coming back to bite him in later seasons, because she ISN’T okay and HE isn’t okay either; his attempts to find himself and chase what he wants are the asteroid breaking up under their feet, only he isn’t holding her safe and close this time. Not for lack of trying, but it’s hard to be there for a struggling kid when you yourself are struggling—and worse, when his struggling is what is causing her to struggle too. I think Octavia appreciates the sentiment that he believes she’ll be okay, but what she NEEDS is for him to fight for them BOTH to be okay, and to know that she’s worth being okay for (“being okay” being the metaphor for “living” in this case).

And then cut from this tender scene to Octavia’s new normal: parents screaming, the cracks in their marriage becoming full-on breaks, and Stolas’ obliviousness and new obsession coming in to drag her away to a place she didn’t even really enjoy as a kid, it seems.

(The timeline of this seems weird; in the first episode, Stolas says it’s been quite some time that Blitzo’s been using the book, but this particular fight between Stella and Stolas appears to be fresh, the morning after the first time Stolas and Blitzo sleep together. Unless it’s been months and Stella is still raging like it’s only been hours, which is plausible for her, but I don’t see Stolas continuing to rehash the same steps of that argument like that. Maybe just some writing inconsistencies. I can live with it.)

Sidenote to say I need a Blitzo and Octavia bonding episode like I need air (and I KNOW what Brandon Rogers has said about Octavia and I genuinely don’t know if he was serious or not but he can SUCK IT UP).

“I’ll pay you~!” “Pay me what?” “Money~!” That might be the first time I’ve ever really heard the tildes in someone else’s voice XD Their HEIGHT DIFFERENCE, good GRIEF.

Also, Moxxie’s catchphrase. It’s adorable. It’s so incongruous with the setting. Why does he say that? Will we ever know?

LOL Fizzarolli appearing this early was something I completely forgot my first go-round. It makes me wonder if that particular Fizzbot is different from the others, because it seems to have way more personality and memories. (And can we spare a moment of sadness for knowing that around a decade ago this is where Blitzo was working, still as a clown, as close to Fizz as he could get while still stroking his massive self-hatred? LOL)

Man, the amount of references shoved in here that can only really be appreciated later—Mammon’s Loo Loo Land, Fizzbot shipped from Big Ozzie’s Factory, the fact that he calls them implings, which is only something I’ve ever heard Mammon say—GOLDEN.

I also want that Thing, Millie.

Stolas’ sense of humor turning out weird and kinda dark in a way that means he finds Blitzo trying to be funny actually humorous makes a weird amount of sense, for how sheltered and stifled he was.

“Looks like the kiddies are still running away from you” paired with Verosika’s “and I should have known you’d be here when I heard the Amber Alerts” has a synergy that I don’t know that I’m prepared to examine, actually. The soft-hearted sucker in me thinks maybe Blitzo has a soft spot for kids that his exes (and the robot version of his former best friend) have been poking at for so long it’s gone callused, which could be supported by his choice to adopt Loona and his desperation for any kind of family or connection, but. Idk. This show does go some really skeevy places with its humor sometimes that isn’t really meant to be more than skin-deep.

“Does anybody love you, BlitzO?” “No. But I’m really good with guns now” THAT’S IT THAT’S THE SHOW IT’S NOT GETTING ANY DEEPER I’M NOT WEEPING OVER BLITZO “NOT WANTING TO BE THIS WAY. NOT FOREVER.”

Wow. On-fire Fizzbot coming to take Blitzo down. This isn’t at all a manifestation of his issues that he’s steadfastly ignoring and instead siccing a dragon on. “OH, what a mouth.” SURE, BLITZO. SURE.

Thing I’m also waiting for: Stolas to actually acknowledge Moxxie and Millie. I mean. They do save his life later. Put that on your growth chart, Stolas my dude, not being a total jackass to all other imps that aren’t Blitzo (and even with Blitzo still being SUPER condescending, my hecking heck).

I wonder if Via hears all the things we the audience hear in the stuff that Stolas can’t say—your mother’s always been (mean, maybe), I haven’t been (happy), we weren’t in (love). Because, while Stolas not loving Stella is definitely one of Via’s issues still (given the s2.5 trailer), the bigger issue that Via has always had is Stolas leaving and not being there for her anymore. Which got its roots somewhere, not just from a childhood nightmare. But depression and self-hatred also do that, convince a person their loved ones are better off without them. And with the life situation Stolas is in, it’s not surprising that the more independent his daughter got, the less she saw of him, because he figured the less she needed him (the less she wanted him around). Holy CRAP it’s sad. And drilling right into my own vault of issues lol it’s fine.

(And the proof that Stolas doesn’t need Blitzo, he can protect himself and Via just fine; it’s the companionship he’s aching for, the love story he’s writing in the margins of what’s actually happening. The comfortable lie he’s telling himself and Blitzo is helping him prop up just like Blitzo’s own version. ARGH.)

“Slutty toy clown” OKAY BLITZO.

Alright, calling this post there bc it’s starting to get long. Unsurprisingly, I can go on for a while about just about anything. Future posts coming, and we’ll see how the two-episode per post thing goes when the episodes start getting longer. Toodles!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #since we're talking about the trailer too

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quillyfied · 15 hours

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Alright, reacting messy and all over the place to this trailer, LET’S GO:

Okay, strong opening: hooded figures (one of whom is checking his watch, which is hilarious, but the skin of the hand also looks red, so probably demons?), red background (good argument for Pride), Blitzo getting IMP out of dodge and then IMMEDIATELY crashing the van, good for you bud I’m so proud (but not as proud as I am of Moxxie chewing Blitzo out without a single “sir” thrown in there). Couldn’t begin to guess when this takes place, but since the van is crunched up later during a bit that is, I am 99% sure, Ghostfuckers, then this is probably Apology Tour. Hooded figures might not have anything to do at all with the gang running for it.

FIZZ THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A SEX TOY THAT IS TOO BIG. I’m not sure if you’ve found it but it’s close :P Lots of fun little clips, though Moxxie dodging a blue fire explosion in Lust doesn’t look good.

DHORKS AND CHERUB WORKING TOGETHER I KNEW IT I HECKING KNEW IT I’M SO MAD I NEVER MADE A POST ABOUT IT BECAUSE I’VE BEEN SO CERTAIN OF IT FOR MONTHS NOW. AAAARGH. AND I CAN’T PROVE IT!! But look at Collin, he looks so unsure compared to the other two. Poor guy. Okay, Blitzo is leaving a card of some sort in front of Agent One, and he’s using the crystal, so this is very much giving me Mastermind vibes (or even Sinsmas, if it's after the conflict and this is just Blitzo messing with them now). Humans being able to open a portal to Hell…that ain’t good!

Something coming at the gang from…looks like their office? And it’s round and spiky…could be whatever it is that’s making them go on the run, whenever that is (Apology Tour is my current guess).

CLETUS IS IRON MAN NOW.

(Listen I’ve been having visions about Blitzo being on trial for stirring up so much crap in the human world that it’s started to have repercussions in Hell so the fact that there seems to be a meeting or trial of some sort later having to do with Stolas is making me think maybe I’m a prophet. I’ll maybe explain more later in a different post but dropping it here bc it’s part of my thought process right now.)

Blitzo why did you give your fake ID such a rack and then neglect it as part of your human disguise XD I’m disappointed in you, babe. I’m also wondering what in the unholy hell a demon wants with a haunted house on Earth (and if that’s Leviathan like many people have been speculating, what is A DEADLY SIN doing in a HAUNTED HOUSE on EARTH???). (Also that is the single most awkward angle of Blitzo of all time, why on earth is he wearing white leggings because if he was naked we would be seeing some pixelation here…unless imps can retract their junk, which I’m open to.)

Ooh, quick shot of Loona operating a machine gun in Lust! Nice! (Hey quick Q where’s Blitzo in all of this??)

Helloooooo, Vassago! Excited to meet you! Really looks like there’s some sort of trial or meeting in Pride and Stolas might be either the topic of discussion or literally on trial, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to have Andrealphus trying to get Stolas demoted or something similar without Stolas even being there. So Vassago actually wanting him present looks good on him for now. But this is a trailer, things can be misleading, but anyone who looks that fed up when dealing with Andrealphus can’t be all that bad :P Thinking this is also during Mastermind, or possibly Sinsmas.

Okay, first really significant shot I’m noticing of short-sleeve Blitzo makes me think it might be Full Moon, because he’s sort of off to the side while the focus is on Stolas talking about how this transactional thing between them isn’t right anymore. Though. Hmm. Stolas is in full regalia for this. And there’s a shot later of short-sleeve Blitzo trying to go for Stolas’ hand and winding up outside (portal? Didn’t seem like it) and Stolas is in his robe when that happens. Musical number with metaphorical sequences?

Sun/moon seems to be during Apology Tour, if that’s when Stolas and Verosika are on a stage together.

And short-sleeve Blitzo with a Dankee Candle, good on you man XD (that’s been one of the more compelling arguments for short-sleeve Blitzo being during Sinsmas, not Full Moon, because gift-giving, but the bits of deep conversation that keep happening with Blitzo in short sleeves sound very much like a conversation that needs to happen during Full Moon and I can’t imagine they’ll wait an entire season for it).

Now the heart-rending bit that’s definitely during a musical number with kiddo Stolitz and then grownup Stolitz, currently voiced over that heart-stabbing “you think you can toy with our feelings because we’re smaller and less important” monologe from Blitzo, it’s FINE I’M FINE (Though…looking really closely…I am not sure if that’s when that monologue occurs? The mouth movements ever so slightly don’t match up. But animation technically has some leeway when it comes to that kind of thing.)

OKAY CALLING IT NOW, TEEN BLITZO AND TILLA SCENE IS DURING GHOSTFUCKERS. I don’t even think it’s a flashback, I just think Blitzo’s brain is being fucked with and he’s seeing his mom and visually reverting back to a teenager. The carpet behind Blitzo and the lighting are mostly what I’m basing this on. Also how fucked up would it be if Blitzo sees a ghost of his mom only for it to reflect his internal monologue about how terrible he is back at him, amirite :P

Okay sassy short-robe Stolas is Apology Tour, calling it now; he and Blitzo have “we’re about to hatefuck” energy off the charts and Stolas in particular is being so bitchy and petty-looking. And angry. And kinda sad. Am I ready for their breakup era to be full of bickering? Yes. Yes I am. I’m also skeptical that the smile that’s on Blitzo’s face during Stolas’ sarcastic little bow is going to be the expression on his face when the episode comes out, but I’m ready to be surprised.

HELLOOOOOO NURSE! YES TODAY SATAN! (Deeply curious about who’s the disgrace, have a current bet going on whether it’s Ozzie or possibly even Stolas, but I could be pleasantly surprised and it’s Mammon :P) Pretty sure the trial/meeting is happening during Sinsmas, actually, it would be too funny to call an episode that when introducing a new Sin. Also short moment to appreciate that Mammon brings fidgets to meetings, of course he does. My guy. My dude. Also his reaction is what makes me think Satan is talking to Ozzie, because Mammon would have no reason to look that gleeful at anyone but Ozzie.

WHERE DID BLITZO GET THAT SWORD THO. (AND ALSO HOW BADLY IS IT ACTUALLY GONNA FUCK UP ANDREALPHUS’ WHOLE DAY BECAUSE THAT’S DEFINITELY ANDREALPHUS ABOUT TO COME DOWN ON THEM LIKE A SACK OF FROZEN HAMMERS) Blitzo trying to protect Stolas, kill me ;A; Stolas looks like he’s in regalia, though sans cloak or hat…why is he at Andrealphus’ place, and why is it looking like he can’t fight back? Stripped of his powers, maybe? Anyway this is Sinsmas, no doubt about it, it’s got season finale energy.

If the haunted house guy is actually Leviathan, I have SO MANY QUESTIONS.

Why is IMP in Lust getting attacked by CHERUB/DHORKS? I have more questions.

“Everyone’s shitty, we live in Hell!” Valid, but also, cop-out.

I’m very curious about what is making Blitzo make that face, because it’s not the cake; it looks like Verosika is cutting it but then she’s also sitting next to him on the railing where he’s sitting, so…? Anyway, it’s Apology Tour, and can I just say how EXCITED I am to get to know more about what happened with Blitzo and Verosika and maybe see some closure for them both on that front? Because YIKES their dynamic means there is a good, juicy story behind it. But also, Blitzo why are you wearing a bloodstained sheet?? (Presumably to sneak around but why did he choose THAT OBJECT, is really my question.)

Millie fighting possibly possessed Blitzo and what appears to be a flashback to Millie and Blitzo’s first fight (could be a time skip but it makes more sense for it to be a flashback given Millie’s hair and Blitzo’s fashion) (side note but dammit why are they both so hot) let me know something new about myself, and it’s how very, very much I want to see Millie and Blitzo kicking the crap out of each other XD Blitzo and Moxxie got to spill their guts in a drug-induced hallucination; I want Blitzo and Millie to fight each other bloody. They’re bonding and sharing deep intimate feelings, guys :P

And the Millie voiceover where she’s telling Blitzo how much he takes from others? Probably during whatever weird hallucination (PLEASE be a hallucination) involves Millie with tied wrists, a branch in her hair, and a ton of glass sticking out of her eye. Ghostfuckers, perhaps? Would make the most sense but how much stuff could that episode POSSIBLY have, oh my word.

(Short-sleeved Blitzo dropping a ton of paperwork on Moxxie also makes me think that’s his date outfit for Full Moon; can’t do this mountain of paperwork, sorry Mox, he has a daaaaate)

Panning to Verosika at the part when she gets to “and leave them worse than when you found them” holy HELL

“Do you feel any remorse for the things you do” yeah somehow I think that’s aimed at Blitzo, y’all. Just from what we’ve seen of Stolas in that particular robe and his general expressions and actions that whole time, and the fact that he seems to be talking to Blitzo (if not an imagining of Blitzo) the whole time. But it panning to Andrealphus about to go super Saiyan does make me laugh super hard actually (bc NO THAT BITCH DOES NOT).

ENTIRE MOMENT OF BREATHLESS SILENCE FOR OCTAVIA CALLING STOLAS OUT. It’s been so complexly beautiful to watch this show not shy away from how much self-hatred and low self-worth hurts loved ones too, and especially to watch that play out with how Octavia and Stolas’ relationship is changing and hurting from Stolas himself changing and hurting, but to have it called out so bluntly really makes me wonder what in the high holy heck is about to happen and when this conversation takes place. I have a horror that it’s during Mastermind or whenever the trial/meeting is, because perhaps Andrealphus and Stella manage to turn Via on Stolas and tell her that whatever is about to happen to Stolas is deserved or for the best, but. Uh. Hmm. Hmmmm. (Because all of Stolas’ power and possessions passing to Via doesn’t mean that Via is old enough or prepared for them and giving them to her would put all that power somewhere that is potentially much easier to manipulate/control, but I have a lot of thoughts about how Stella feels about Via and how that colors how Andrealphus treads around the subject of Via when talking to Stella about her and it’s not for this trailer reaction.)

(Apology Tour involving not just apologizing to Verosika, but to Stolas, too? I can only hope, though it’ll be far from simple; I don’t think Stolitz is going to sort out their issues and get together fully this season, but I’m hoping for some steps.)

(Also PLEASE can we get some Stella development that maybe sheds some dimension on her spoiled brat personality)

VIA SONG VIA SONG VIA SONG VIA SONG (maybe about her own magic and her life and how it all kinda fell apart so fast even as she’s growing up so fast poor girl)

Pretty sure the mirrors shattering thing is happening during the Stolas Apology Tour song, but we’ll see. Gosh there’s gonna be a lot of songs this half of the season.

Millie getting a short is such a good thing for her as a character, but I also love that she’s getting an episode with Blitzo, because out of everyone at IMP, I’ve been waiting for her to be the one that Blitzo has a major breakdown in front of; seems like Ghostfuckers is going to give me my wish! I don’t think she’s gonna coddle him or be overly sweet about it, but I do think she has a way of getting through to him and handling him in a way he wouldn’t let Moxxie do and couldn’t handle Loona doing either. Tough love but sweet? Idk man. Unless this is the moment he starts getting possessed. Who knows.

I am SO CURIOUS about who is going through the movie of Blitzo’s past traumas where he ruins the lives of everyone he loves; I’ve heard speculation that it’s haunted house dude, which would match up with Blitzo having a nervous breakdown in Ghostfuckers, but I dunno.

Oh that soft Blitzo look from under the bloodstained sheet. Oh that happy smiling Stolas that I’m now more convinced is taking place in the same general episode, if not sequentially after each other like that. Blitzo goes from looking so miserable to maybe looking more hopeful. Or perhaps yearning. I’m not sure how to interpret the expression, it’s just really heart-wrenching okay. And Stolas is wearing the same outfit as he is when he’s onstage with Verosika so what even IS this episode.

The very businesslike way Stolas says “Thank you, Blitzo” before he softens up makes me think THAT is what’s gonna finish up the Full Moon argument, but it does make me wonder what on earth Blitzo says that gets Stolas acting the way he does in potentially the very next episode.

Overall it’s a well-produced trailer that I’m sure we’re all going to be dissecting frame by frame for a long time! Whee!

#helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers

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quillyfied · 23 hours

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I have SO MANY THOUGHTS about the trailer but I can’t stop scrolling through the helluva boss tag long enough to sit down and try to articulate them XD omg. Rolling around in the feels machine right now, come back later

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quillyfied · 2 days

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Also I HECKING CALLED IT OKAY I CALLED IT THAT CHERUB AND DHORKS WOULD BE WORKING TOGETHER I CALLED IT I CALLED IT I CALLED IT

#helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #I guess #dammit I didn’t get the post out in time BUT IVE BEEN THINKING IT FOR MONTHS

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quillyfied · 2 days

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So how about the second half of Helluva Boss season 2 trailer, gang? Anybody else crying too hard to function?

#helluva boss #YOU BET YOUR BOTTOMS IM ANALYZING EVERY SINGLE DAMN FRAME

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quillyfied · 2 days

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E8

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Last episode of Hazbin time, and after this I’ll start on Helluva Boss (which shouldn’t be nearly as long but I am a windbag so who knows). Let’s go!!

Hazbin Hotel s1e8, here we go:

And here we go again with Vox and his complete reasonable obsession with Alastor and anyone who associates with him, love that for Vox, truly. Best life: he’s living it. But it’s also kinda scary how comprehensive a view Vox has of everyone and everything; we know this already, but watching him watching the Hotel just sort of feels…more violating. Because of audience bonding with the characters, really, but still. There’s a reason why the Vees are a terrifying force to be reckoned with and its real-world reflections make me too sad and full of impotent rage to manage so let’s move on.

Charlie wishing her mom could see this! Sweet! Valid! Somehow super sad knowing where her mom is but not knowing why!!

Well. Vaggie straight-up calls them all “sinners.” So for me that pretty handily puts the “are cannibals sinners” debate to bed. For a while, at least; I’m still gonna be double-checking the blood spatter when the battle starts.

Yeah Pentious giving the grand toast to not dying, I’m not. I’m not emotional. I’m fine.

So this little scene with Alastor and Niffty…intriguing. Seems to show a softer side of Alastor, one where he hangs up the scheming for one minute and admits he’s been enjoying himself, enjoying these people (for their interpersonal drama entertainment value if nothing else). It’s funny and it’s sweet and definitely shows why Niffty sticks with Alastor on the off chance he doesn’t own her soul. And it also has me not completely convinced that when Alastor gets the chance to accomplish his goals by betraying everyone at the Hotel, he isn’t going to feel some level of conflict about it. Getting a character who believes so completely in their own infallibility to crack: the ultimate Good Narrative Food.

(nope hang on angel and husk are flirting pause the analysis have to go squeal about it—)

(I’m a veteran of the Good Omens (TV) fandom and got pulled into watching a snake and reptile care youtube, I know about snake hemipenes, why is the mention that Pentious might have them taking me out at the kneecaps)

Lute being Too Much for Adam never ceases to make me laugh. Or remember that she definitely deserves to be a main villain, at least for a little while. (Alright her name is Lute because “lieutenant” but for the longest time I thought her name was Lute as in “guitar-like instrument” because Adam WOULD, that weirdo; I choose to believe it’s both tbh.) Lute is someone who is way more a foil for Vaggie than anyone else right now, and the absolute struggle in her future is making me excited. ALL ABOARD THE STRUGGLE BUS, LUTE.

I’m sorry I just paused to make another note of something but it’s flown OUT OF MY ENTIRE HEAD because I just realized HUSK AND ANGEL ARE BOTH CRACKING THEIR KNUCKLES AT THE SAME TIME AS THE EXORCISTS APPROACH. WHAT WAS I SAYING??

Right. Vaggie. Got her new wings, and it’s interesting to me that she immediately hides them. Even more interesting to me that she CAN immediately hide them; none of the angels ever seem to, if they even can. That seems a little more…demonic in nature. Because Lucifer certainly can. Sera and Emily change their forms slightly, but the wings stay out at all times (mainly bc it seems Heaven is specifically formed around being able to get around with them on, especially the courtroom). Just one more way that Vaggie is embracing her new life, I suppose.

And here come the Vees, safe in whatever bunker they’ve got, and once again I can’t stress enough how Vox seems to be the only one with any interest in the proceedings. The other two are treating it like Vox dragged them to a sports event that he’s super into and they’re just along for moral support at best. The utter boredom of it all is something I can’t fathom. But I’ll try: this means nothing to them. The Hotel means nothing. The Extermination means nothing because they can just hide from it while the rest of Hell gets slaughtered. They’re cold-blooded ruthless manipulators who might be about to give Lucifer a run for his money if they aren’t stopped. I look forward to season 2 very much. Because on a grand scale, the Vees mean NOTHING. Their games are PETTY SQUABBLES. They don’t rank on the cosmic horror scale because the fight is so much bigger than they are. But they can sure throw wrenches into things!

ALRIGHT HERE WE GO THE PRODUCT OF MY MANY THEORIES ABOUT OVERLORD MECHANICS AND ALASTOR SPECIFICALLY: the shield moment. They seem to be expecting it to happen, so Alastor knew he could do it, but it’s my firm belief that he couldn’t until he made the deal with Charlie. He figured out that he can get powerups just from making deals themselves, or else has been doing it better than anyone else if it’s a known thing, and Charlie isn’t a slouch in the power department. So that’s my theory: Alastor is only able to go toe-to-toe with Adam at all because he’s borrowing a little taste of Charlie’s power from their deal. He’s already plenty powerful, and maybe he could do the shield the whole time, but I do think the deal with Charlie was made at a very opportune time, and Alastor probably only agreed to take on Adam solo because of his overconfidence in himself now boosted with having some of Charlie’s power. I only really have a gut feeling to provide as a source for this, because the only one who proves up to facing Adam is Lucifer; Alastor made a good call, possibly recruiting more of Charlie’s power more directly in a deal when he did, but Charlie isn’t a match for Adam, either, so Alastor very much couldn’t be. He has the speed and the skill to definitely give Adam a bad time, but he can’t withstand the power. Charlie doesn’t have the skill, but she could have the power in time. Lucifer…well, he’s an unfair powerhouse, deus ex machina in a top hat and resolving daddy issues, and we love that for him.

Anyway. Shield. Angels finding out in a very nasty way they can be killed. Adam being his usual misogynistic self. And then Adam deciding he’s over it and obliterating the shield in one punch.

I get the feeling that Adam really doesn’t do much during Exterminations beyond laugh and make tasteless jokes while occasionally smiting demons that get too close or look fun to squash. Because he just effortlessly whips out these shows of power that nobody seems to be able to account for, which makes me think it’s because nobody has ever seen Adam actually try and fight in earnest before. Following the theme of the show, they’re hopelessly outmatched (outgunned outmanned outnumbered outplanned I’M SORRY), and manage to pull a win out of their asses anyway thanks to the power of Love (and pulling Lucifer out of his millennia-long funk for at least half an hour), which Adam very clearly doesn’t have. But. Who needs Love when you have whatever terrifying powerup the higher-ups saw fit to give him?

“A mortal soul is no match for me, edgelord.” Okay. Okay. Here we go. So…Adam isn’t a mortal soul…despite being the first human soul in Heaven. He wields divine light and has a divine axe. Lilith isn’t a mortal soul despite being the original first woman, rules as Queen of Hell when she’s at home, and has an inspiring voice and song to grow Hell’s strength. It’s safe to say that someone else granted them these powerups (Sera/the Seraphim for Adam, Lucifer for Lilith). So…let’s look at Alastor again, just for a sec. He demonstrates ability far beyond what we see any other Overlord or demon do, seems to know his way around deals and loopholes like the slipperiest lawyer in existence, and his rise to infamy was meteoric. It’s a popular theory that instead of Lilith, the person holding the other end of Alastor’s leash is Roo, especially given the repeating eye motif that he has in his magic, but I wonder if Roo isn’t giving him a power-up already, and the deal where he’s caged is something else. If the two are separate in some way.

“You should know better than anyone what a soul can accomplish when they take charge of their own fate.” Now THAT…throws a very different spin on the theory, actually. If Adam and Lilith weren’t gifted their abilities, but took them, Lilith drawing from Hell and Adam from Heaven. If nobody gave either of them anything at all, but they found ways to elevate themselves. Or…made deals, perhaps? Either way, Alastor seems well on his way to becoming something Else just like they are, but. He isn’t there yet. Hence the need to make a deal with Charlie and stick close to her and her budding power. Hence why Alastor couldn’t take on Adam yet.

Y’know. I haven’t mentioned or noticed Alastor’s shadow much. But it certainly is a huge part of his power. Just like the microphone staff, which is broken now oh nooooo. But back to the shadow—the combination of the shadow plus the voodoo aspect of Alastor’s powers are a bit too much Dr. Facilier for comfort (which is hysterical given that Keith David is right there voicing Husk), but the tentacles add a nice touch. Although all of that, plus the deer aspect, plus the possible cannibalism and serial murder, plus the radio—does it seem like Alastor might have too much going on? Because I’m wondering how much of that is his, and how much is alternative powerups from other deals. He made his name as an Overlord killer, after all—and as an Overlord himself, owning souls grants power. I’m certain that whatever supply he’s high on, it’s the only way he was able to survive being first hit by pure holy light, and then cut down by Adam like that. So it must be working for him—but not well enough.

There is something so comedically horrific about how Adam just…vaporizes Pentious, war machine and all. It seems to be a pretty effective death; however, I do have to wonder how it would affect Pentious’ ability to be redeemed if it was angelic steel that got him instead of holy light. Either way, confirming that there are multiple ways to kill demons, angelic steel is just the most straightforward, and wow he’s just wholly gone now, huh? Not even any debris or a body or anything.

(Putting this theory up while I’m thinking about it: concerning Charlie’s deal with Alastor, and specifically the “one favor where you harm no one” bit, a part of me thinks that Alastor is going to have Charlie stand aside and let him kill someone…just to prove that they can be redeemed. Whether that’s Alastor’s purpose or not in killing is up for constant debate in my head, but I do want it made very clear that Pentious wasn’t redeemed until he died. Demonic redemption might require double death; maybe the souls are re-judged on double death anyway. Who knows??)

HEY, BLOOD THEORY CONFIRMATION: Dazzle (gosh I hope I got that right) bleeds black. He’s Hellborn. There IS differentiation in blood colors given in this show. NICE.

So why the ENTIRE HELL does Charlie bleed RED?

It’s subtle, it could be written off as her horns, but it’s there in certain shots; she’s bleeding from the head after Adam throws her into the hotel sign, definite drips that aren’t her horns at all, or bloodstains from possibly being close to cannibals who died. And it’s red. Why is it red? Why does she bleed red like sinners, Viv? WHY DOES SHE BLEED RED, VIV?

Because here’s the only thing I can think of: that means one, she DOES have a soul (an immortal soul, like Adam says, mechanic not metaphor), because two, she might be something close to half-human, or at least half-sinner, or half-whatever the actual hell Lilith is. This makes her powerful, but also incredibly vulnerable, just the same as sinners are with their souls. And it puts her more on their level; she isn’t some above-it-all royal that’s something entire Other from the sinners, she’s sort of partially one of them. (Not to say she doesn’t still have her royal privilege and so forth and et cetera let’s move on.)

Alright Vaggie hiding away her wings is kinda worth it for the badass blink-and-you-miss-it tearing open of the back of her battle uniform to let them out. And, uh, can we give Jessica Vosk ALL the credit for that absolutely unhinged Lute scream as she TEARS HER OWN ARM OFF??

(Also, to the legend who wrote the Lute’s Arm/Vaggie’s Eye fanfic: I didn’t read it but I think of you often.)

But: Lute and Vaggie setting up to be tragic narrative foils, most likely complete with Lute spiraling as she completely loses any sense of self or direction while her world crumbles around her and Vaggie going from suspicious to pitying. When the truth about how fucked up the Exorcist legion is comes out, I’m sure there’s going to be signs about how they were both hurt pretty deeply by being a part of it but handled it differently, Vaggie by being lucky enough to find a support group after she was kicked out and Lute struggling with carrying on the legacy alone. Also, calling it now, if Emily doesn’t Fall, then Lute is definitely gonna try to kill her at least once. Anyway. That’s probably super endgame stuff.

LUCIFER, DEUS EX MACHINA! Or. Uh. Diaboli ex machina? Eh who cares LOOK AT HIM GO. It’s such a fun fight, watching him zing around Adam and shapeshift and be all creative and zany. Right up until it matters—and then he’s all business. Fiery, deadly business. Also how did he get his voice to do that (the “you’re in my house now, bitch” part, not the “go home” part). But it’s such an important moment for witnessing that dreamer that Heaven cast out, the creative powerhouse that just wanted to make something nice, something meaningful. Adam can’t fight him because Lucifer isn’t really fighting. He’s playing. Right up until Adam threatens Charlie again. She’s the only thing worth fighting for to him, after all.

So very interesting to me too that when Lucifer is in his demon aspect, the snake on his hat becomes a halo. (Also, unlike the other Sins, he doesn’t get any taller. Bless him.)

Now. Let’s address the elephant—or, rather, the very small cyclops—in the room. Niffty killing Adam. It’s certainly a twist. It’s the biggest, weirdest twist I’ve ever seen. It kind of doesn’t make any narrative sense. It boggles the brain that Niffty, the littlest demon in the group, the bit side character, gets to kill Adam, the big bad of the season. But in a way…that’s kind of perfect? It DOESN’T make any narrative sense. LIFE doesn’t make narrative sense. Not everything is going to fit into a perfect metaphor. Although, if I tried…Niffty took out the biggest cockroach of all :P Alright I’ll be honest I don’t know. I’d love to read other people’s thoughts on why it happened like this. Because it’s not like I don’t enjoy it as a narrative choice, it’s just so jarring and my English major brain hasn’t made it make sense yet.

Such an unexpectedly tender character moment to have Adam’s dying smile be for Lute, though. Yeah, she’s gonna be REAL hecked up next season. And not because she’s way more homicidal than Adam somehow.

(Also, back to my blood color theory: cannibals bleed red. They’re sinners. Stop the debates, it’s canon and I can prove it now. Kinda. Still got the whole. Charlie bleeding red thing throwing a wrench into my everything.)

And we see some of the littler pieces to finish off a lot of my theories—the Vees’ ultimate plan to seize control of Hell going off pretty well despite the Hotel surviving (not that it mattered to them either way, the plan was to throw the other Overlords off their game and take their stuff, not mess with the Hotel at all); Husk and Niffty going about their days but looking surprised with the rest of the group when Alastor shows back up (and still uncertain if they knew he was alive or dead and if they even would know if he died tbh). But let’s take one last little peep at Alastor before I close the book on him for now.

Y’know. They really do make it unclear if it’s Alastor Altruist, or Alastor, altruist.

But more than that, it’s the first time he acknowledges his deal and the fact that his powers are limited—which is why he might use non-soul deals with others anyway, to get around his soul deal constraints. And if he’s LIMITED and he went to bat against Adam and held his own pretty well, maybe I need to rethink my own assessment of his strength and how he’s leashed (unless, of course, the theories are right and it’s a deal with Lilith keeping him constrained from using his powers except in her service, so he really was at maximum potential in that fight and just isn’t strong enough yet). But he’s confident (as he always is) that once he’s out of his deal, he’ll be where he wants to be, pulling strings and manipulating fates and probably strong enough to replace Lucifer (and wouldn’t it be twisty if Alastor used his favor with Charlie to let him kill and replace her father as King of Hell? Wild. Anyway—). But until then, he’s showing back up at the hotel after it’s been rebuilt, sans staff, and while fanon has latched onto the idea of his wound containing angelic essence that’s slowly killing him…I’m not so sure if canon is going to go that route, but his missing staff is probably way more significant than the wound, and I’m curious about that.

Now forget about these losers, let’s go check out the last two scenes and put proper bows on my last two theories.

First: Pentious, redeemed, showing up before the Seraphim and NOT at the heavenly gates. Convenient for keeping something this reality-shaking a secret! I still don’t know that I’m fully convinced that Sir Pentious is truly the first sinner to be redeemed; I still kinda think he’s just the first one that Sera and Emily noticed, but I’m looking forward to exploring that mystery more next season. Maybe with Molly as an actual character this time? The folks who keep drawing and writing about Molly and Pentious being friends, you’re legends, keep doing that; it will sustain me if I am disappointed.

Second: Lute and Lilith on a beach in Heaven, presumably. Alright, wording: “Adam is dead. Your deal is done, and I’m in charge now.” There is. So much to unpack in that. Starting with “Your deal is done.” Lilith…made a deal…with Adam? Adam made a deal with Lilith? Or Lilith made a deal with someone else, like the Seraphim, and Adam happened to be a condition? The most likely explanation is that Lilith made a deal with Adam, but for what and why remains to be seen. It sure looks like Lilith made a deal with her ex-husband to relax in Heaven and let Hell rot, but things really aren’t as they seem in this show; appearances are constantly deceiving. I’ve heard the popular theory that Lilith and Eve share a body (very, very weird implications if so), and it’s shown in some family portraits that Lilith can banish her horns just like Lucifer can his wings (or Charlie her horns, for that matter), but not showing Lilith’s eyes, keeping her shrouded in mystery—is that to conceal her identity as swapping between herself and Eve, is it just to build mystery about Lilith herself (who again is NEVER HECKING MENTIONED EXCEPT BY CHARLIE AND ADAM), is it for lolz? What the heck could Lilith and Adam have possibly traded for, anyway? Letting Lilith crash in Heaven in exchange for…what? The Exterminations have surely been going on for longer than seven years. Lilith could be imprisoned, but Lute’s behavior and language doesn’t convey that at all. Like, AT ALL.

Additional question: does Lute even have the power to take Adam’s place? Or will she get the power as she assumes command?

Anyway, moving forward in this scene, Lute later says “Your brat is threatening the very foundation of Heaven.” Interesting, showing that Lute is just as fearful of a Hellish uprising as Sera is and what that means for the safety of Heaven and the souls they’re protecting. “And if you want to stay here” And if you want to stay here. IF YOU WANT TO STAY HERE. Lilith is definitely there because she wants to be. Or at least Lute believes she wants to be. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if both Lilith and Lucifer are exhausted with their existences, but it is such a contradictory thing, for Charlie to believe so wholeheartedly that her mother is off doing something important, that she loved Hell and cared about its denizens, only to show Lilith on a beach needing to be threatened with leaving it to get up and deal with Charlie. But, then, Charlie also believed her father didn’t want to see her and didn’t really care about her. It’s possible that Charlie is wrong about her mother. But we have so few clues and it’s easy to assume the worst when this is how Lilith is truly introduced.

One thing I keep noticing and keep forgetting to go back and check for: Lilith’s necklace. There really aren’t very many details that don’t have some sort of thought put into them, and her necklace while laying out on a beach is…eye-catching, at least to me. It’s simple, but I just wonder if it’s present in any of the portraits, because I keep forgetting to check for it. Maybe if I write it down, I’ll remember to keep an eye out next time.

I’m sure that there are theories and threads that I didn’t finish, because I have word-vomited something like 24,000 words of theories and reactions and maddened questions; now that I have it all out of my system, maybe I’ll make organized, reasonable posts where the theories are actually separated and presented as cohesive wholes rather than themes carrying across episodes. But I have to get through my Helluva Boss analyses first!

Thanks so much for sticking around and sticking it out, and if any of this made sense, then I’m glad! Later!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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quillyfied · 3 days

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E7

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Had to take a break this week bc prep for my medical procedure today kicked my entire butt, but I’m back for the final two episodes! Wahoo!

Penultimately, Hazbin Hotel s1e7:

Hello, Alastor, my beloved creep. Gotta hand it to the man, he knows when to time his entrances. A consummate performer to the bone. But he’s also really cementing his skills as a deal-maker in this scene, which comes with a certain level of manipulation and understanding how people tick. Charlie wouldn’t have been open to making a deal with him until she was at the end of her rope, like she is now; as naïve and sweet as she is, she isn’t blind to who and what Alastor is. And right now, she isn’t even being sweet. She rightfully calls Alastor on his behavior, who is SOUNDING nice in tone but isn’t actually BEING nice in words, before giving in to Alastor’s prodding and unearthing the root of her issue, which is her own perceived failure and incompetence. (Side note to cackle at how Alastor creeps into the corner of the screen when Charlie mentions “the cruelest Overlord in Hell” like yes babe we all know it’s you now keep that ego in check.) She’s stressed, she’s overwhelmed, she’s been made brutally aware of the depths of her own hubris and how badly her overconfidence could backfire on everything and everyone she loves. In a word: she’s vulnerable. Vulnerable people in Hell make deals. Alastor couldn’t have picked a better moment if he’d designed it himself.

Putting himself forward as the mentor in this moment is another careful, deliberate form of pressure that Alastor as a deal-maker is using in this game. He’s been building that relationship all season, but actually utilizing himself in that role rather than indulging Charlie while sniping at the rest of the cast is new for him. In his way, I believe he’s being very genuine with Charlie when he’s teaching her about smiles. She wears her heart on her sleeve; she could stand to “talk less, smile more” (wrong musical oops), both for her own benefit but also for her utility as a tool in Alastor’s arsenal. He’s also being very careful—he’s touching her more, which as a touchy person Charlie is usually more receptive to (but notice she’s pushing him away every time he does it), he’s being playful, he’s frankly acting his ass off and working their connection like his life depends on it (it does let’s be real). They’re in a perfect sweet spot of Charlie being desperate and her trust in him, while not absolute, still being strong enough for her to be receptive to his advice. It’s a delicate moment; Charlie still requires convincing, reassurance. She’s still very aware of who Alastor is when she asks if he’s actually asking for her soul, when she tells him she won’t hurt anyone for him. But Alastor didn’t get to his position by being an amateur in the game. He wouldn’t ask if he didn’t have something of equal or greater value to offer, and the means to save her friends and stand up to Heaven is one of the bigger aces up his sleeves. Charlie doesn’t want or need personal power. She isn’t swayed by promises of greater influence, she doesn’t care about riches. She cares about people—HER people, the sinners that she’s determined to protect after her parents couldn’t (or wouldn’t, depending on which parent and which point in the story we’re at).

There’s an old cliché about love making people weak that’s paradoxically both true and false. Loving others does open us up to having more vulnerable spots, more weak points that could be exploited by evil forces. But it also makes us stronger and more willing to go above and beyond for our communities. The Hellaverse loves this interplay—Helluva Boss is making a right old meal out of it, but it’s also the core of Hazbin Hotel. Charlie’s power comes from her love for the unlovable. It’s also her greatest weakness, even moreso than her relentless determination to believe in the best in people. Idealists tend to be easy to manipulate, but they’re also most likely to pull an unlikely win out of absolutely nowhere. Alastor never really explicitly says how he feels about Charlie—because why would we ever get anything genuine out of him—but reading between the lines presents such an interesting setup. He’s not working with Charlie because he believes in her or her vision; his only stated reason for being there is “entertainment.” And yet, he dismisses Mimzy because she causes problems for him, he pulled in two souls he owns to work there too, he’s putting his powers towards fixing the place up and protecting it when needed, he’s there every single day. The hotel itself probably means nothing to him, but Charlie herself is who he’s attaching himself to. More insight on this later in the episode because I keep trying to get ahead of myself when there’s real, actual meat in front of me to chew on.

SO. THE DEAL. The deal with Charlie. The deal specifically struck with Charlie to help Charlie, Charlie’s deal.

First interesting tidbit: Charlie HAS a soul. Which. Hmm. She’s Hellborn, in that she was born in Hell, but her father is a fallen angel and her mother is a sinner (or at least a human who defied Heaven) turned something Else. What this means for Charlie taxonomically is unclear, but she at least believes she has a soul—though, again, whether as mechanic or metaphor is not specified yet. Hellborn don’t really have souls (and presumably neither do Heavenborn), according to the wiki; when they die, they become part of the landscape of Hell. But souls in HH have utility. They’re a resource. They imply movement up and down the Heaven/Hell divide and power in interpersonal dealings. Charlie might have an actual soul courtesy of Lilith, but what she actually has courtesy of both of her parents is power, power that she herself doesn’t wield much and hasn’t developed fully yet.

Next interesting tidbit: Alastor has been shown making deals for things that are not souls—favors, mostly, but we can also guess from his freaky skill set that even if he doesn’t gain a soul from a deal, he does still gain some sort of power from the exchange. He isn’t stupid enough to go after Charlie’s soul directly, but a favor—a very broadly-worded favor, in fact, which I’ll get to in a minute—a favor from a member of the royal family of Hell is enough to give Alastor a palpable, worrisome boost. Vox was right to be worried about this happening—and he and the Vees were also absolutely right in giving up on trying to stop it and focusing their endeavors on their continued mass takeover of Hell (see the ways in which I shout incoherently about Velvette manipulating an entire room of Overlords into leaving themselves even more scattered and vulnerable for the bonus Extermination back in my Episode 3 analysis).

Next tidbit: the wording. “One favor at a time of my choosing where you harm no one.” Deal-making is a slippery business, and the wording of this is both ominous and vague. “Favor” could mean anything, especially in Hell, where magic is a thing. “At a time of my choosing” so holding onto the power pretty tightly as well as not locking either of them into anything specific (because Alastor could very easily choose to never cash in. He won’t, but he could, and it’s that complacency that lulls people into a false sense of security, especially the longer the bill takes to come due). “Where you harm no one” but notice how that doesn’t mean the same thing as no one getting hurt. My theory: the favor is going to involve letting Alastor harm someone without Charlie’s interference, though who is beyond me right now. Overall, it’s vague, and it’s almost comforting in that vagueness. Charlie can imagine whatever she wants into that promise, and while she’s right to be cautious, she still doesn’t let it stop her from making the deal, because Alastor’s knowledge is more important to her.

And this is how Alastor becomes powerful enough to even give Adam a run for his money, but I’ll talk more about that next episode.

The Egg Bois being unreliable empty-headed little darlings might be the funniest possible way to sidestep “we had this information months ago” problem, actually. And it also puts the gravity of the knowledge into perspective, if Carmilla’s power ballad didn’t ram that point home hard enough. Angels being killable is nonsense on par with outlandish conspiracy theories. And it’s about to be common knowledge real soon.

(To those folks who look at Rosie and think she’s a fallen angel because she has a feathered neck: I beg of you to look up 1910s American fancy dress for women. That’s the collar of her dress, folks. They went up that high.)

Alastor’s connections with Mimzy and Rosie paint some interesting shades onto the portrait of who he is. Backstory from the wiki indicates he trusts and gets along better with women over men (insofar as he trusts anyone), but tossing that to the curb, they’re the only two people he seems to have any kind of positive bond with from his past. Mimzy’s attachment is probably one more of familiarity, since he’s the one bailing her out of trouble over and over, but Rosie is not just an equal, but older than him and someone he trusts enough to both ask outrageous favors from and accept leads on business deals. He allows Rosie to touch him far more than he allows Mimzy (and thus WAY more than anyone else), and he treats her with not just courtesy but directness. He doesn’t double-speak or insinuate his way around her; he doesn’t give her false pleasantries. How Alastor treats Rosie speaks of mutual trust and if not friendship, then as close to it as he gets. And Rosie returns that investment, which, as the most emotionally intelligent character on the show and certainly the one who may understand Alastor most, may show hints of how far Alastor’s true loyalty to another person can go when the relationship is mutually beneficial. I have no doubt that there is still a limit to that trust, but the threshold being so high is impressive for not just sinners, but Overlords. Once again, highlighting that the Vees’ alliance, while formidable, isn’t built to last, because the Vees themselves don’t trust each other.

Alright, Vaggie and Carmilla detour! First things first: Vaggie’s a soldier. Her being a former Exorcist (though…that’s me, putting “former” in there. No other character does. She’s an Exorcist. Which implies more and more that Exorcists are themselves a class of angel rather than an occupation, but still, don’t know if they’re Heavenborn or recruited winners) makes more and more sense in hindsight. And my Hellaverse friend was very gleeful in telling me how validating it was to hear Carmilla Carmine lay out the reasons, because it echoes all the angel!Vaggie theories going around about her before the show dropped, which is fair, because it took me by surprise on my first watchthrough and hearing it explained so deadpan made me feel sheepish. BUT. GETTING AHEAD OF MYSELF AGAIN. The point: Vaggie attempting to wield Charlie’s power really drives home two things: one, that Vaggie falls back on the rigid structure of army life when uncomfortable (which we saw already in e3); and two, that Hell does not give two solitary rugged shits about the royal family. Which is fair for Pride; why would the prideful care about authority above their own, especially when it hides away making ducks or disappears entirely or opens delusional hotels and doesn’t actually do any significant ruling at all?

But it’s important that Vaggie herself gets a stark slap in the face on that front, because she doesn’t understand Hell and its sinners any more than Charlie does; her encouragement to Charlie to “command a little more authority” in e4 only causes Angel to get more hurt, because neither of them truly understood both the situation and the general way souls and soul contracts seem to work. They aren’t sinners, and it’s now very debatable if Vaggie was ever human, either. So her tutelage under Carmilla Carmine (very neatly mirroring Charlie and Alastor’s relationship, by the way) is less about teaching Vaggie how to kill angels and more about teaching Vaggie how to survive in Hell in general. They had a solid parallel in e3 that’s now paying off, and there may also be something to be said about real-world Latina woman generational solidarity that I am nowhere near equipped or qualified to discuss, but the point is this: Vaggie is now getting her grow-up moment the same as Charlie, and putting them side by side while Charlie and Vaggie aren’t glued to each other’s sides is damn good storytelling, actually.

So. Carmilla is destroying all of Vaggie’s arguments as to why she should help. What she’s doing is the same as what she does when she starts actively fighting Vaggie: she’s stripping Vaggie of her posturing (stiff and formal), her reliance on empty structures (Charlie’s social standing), and even her anger (fear, helplessness, shame, self-hatred) to get to the real reason of why Vaggie really needs Carmilla’s help, because it’s that reason that Vaggie needs to harness. And that reason, put forth in a musical number that still gives me chills every time? Love. Real, hard, messy, excruciating, liberating love. Vaggie has been filling the hole that Heaven left in her life with Charlie, and it’s been working for her, but all the other things, most significantly her anger—she doesn’t need them anymore. She doesn’t need to swap Adam and Heaven with Princess Charlie and Hell, she needs to swap them with Charlie her girlfriend and the sinners she cares about.

(Side note to talk about how at first, Carmilla’s hair is up while she’s fighting Vaggie, until Vaggie complains about not being used to fighting with long hair. Next frame, Carmilla’s hair is down. I feel robbed for not getting that animation of the hair coming down, but I’ll live somehow. Because the fact that they did it in the first place is such a small but cool detail and I love it.)

NOW BACK TO CHARLIE: her journey from shattered confidence to enthusiastic leader is multilayered and handled beautifully, really; with Alastor and Rosie standing in as parental/mentor figures she hasn’t had in a long time, their confidence in her is one thing, but it’s the support that drives home once again that community and bonds matter. And not only that, the fact that Charlie has been trying all season (and all pilot too, non-canon as it is now) to sing-and-dance her way through her problems and NOW of all times when it should actually WORK is when she CAN’T, because her heart and head are both all scrambled, is delicious. And another support to the theme that self-improvement AND being true to yourself aren’t mutually exclusive things but instead mutually beneficial—I’d go so far as to say mutually vital. Living in a violent, chaotic, meaningless, hurtful world changes the people living in it, to the point where they become something unrecognizable to even themselves just to survive. Hazbin Hotel has a very literal way of showing that (see everyone’s demon forms). It also spends a lot of time on very carefully building the theme that even at rock-bottom, change for the better is not only possible, but a good thing, even if it makes life harder and messier in a lot of ways. It also improves it, to the point where this ragtag group of assholes are ready to fight and die for each other by the end of the season. Charlie never needed to change her core personality; she just needed to grow up a little, to see the nuance in the world around her. She’s still getting there, but she’s TRYING. My goodness is she trying.

Alright, flashing back to Vaggie and Carmilla for a bit: the explanation Carmilla gives for angelic steel’s abilities against angels and demons alike makes sense, but it does still itch at my brain with ‘BUT HOW LONG HAVE THE EXTERMINATIONS BEEN GOING ON THO’ questions. However, I’ll pull myself away from that corkboard of madness to shriek about another question: where does angelic steel even come from? And how could it be that with an entire army of angels training with angelic steel, nobody got cut or hurt with it before? Or did they just assume it could hurt but not kill? Listen I think I’m digging into the cracks of the writing and not actually chasing a rational thread here but I said I was getting Weird about this show and I meant it, I’m gnawing on a marrowless bone here and desperately hoping it still yields sustenance. XD

ANYWAY.

I fully missed Vaggie getting her wings ripped out the first several times I watched HH (I blame my squeamish nature; probably looked away too long from the eyeball thing), but her getting her wings BACK is certainly hard to miss. And they’re different from her original wings, too, which really solidifies that she’s left Heaven behind and is fully committed to being here in Hell with Charlie. Not just Heaven, but the hurt and the rage her casting out left her with, too, the mistrust, the baggage. She’ll still be dealing with it, but she’s starting to move on from it, to embrace who she is now, to hate herself less. Folks who say the wing scene is meaningless are missing the point—it isn’t about the wings. It’s about Vaggie and her outlook on life. That’s what the whole song was about, redirecting herself from a vengeance-based view to a love-based view and using that as her foundation to fight on. This show has such good storytelling it makes me feral.

Also lol miss “no more weapons” turning a full 180 to “we’re gonna need more weapons.”

Just gonna tuck the significance of Rosie, one of Alastor’s closest allies, being the one to say, “Words are cheap, but actions, they speak the truth.” Just gonna. Just gonna hold onto that one. Just gonna hold that close and use that as the measuring stick against which I measure the Radio Demon in upcoming seasons. Like it’s a major show theme too but also specifically for the morally dubious cannibalistic deer man, I’m gonna be keeping my eye on him with that tidbit in mind.

I said it before in a very rambly way but let me be more concise: Charlie learning to trust in herself and it actually working out the way she wants it to for once is probably why this episode makes me so teary upon multiple viewings. Like. Vaggie learning to ditch her baggage that was holding her back also makes me cry a little too but Charlie learning that she’s always been enough is. I need a minute. Go watch some cannibals tap dance for a bit.

Very interesting wording, before we get to the obvious Alastor plotting undertones: “I guess I’ve always known my destiny could never be postponed.” Charlie is full of such interesting contradictions. She’s born to be a leader, wants to help and serve by leading, and yet she doesn’t like wielding any kind of authority or power over other people. Which frankly is what makes a good leader half the time, the humility to remember that you aren’t better than the people you’re guiding, but I am so desperately curious to know more about Lilith so we can compare Charlie’s style to hers. I’ve seen so many—SO MANY—interpretations of Lilith at this point, and all of them valid, and we know that Charlie looks up to her mother and wants to make her proud and cares about Hell because Lilith did, but keep in mind that Charlie very much wears rose-tinted glasses when it comes to the people around her. Interpretations where Lilith is a proto-Charlie who cared so much about Hell and helping its people are intriguing (especially against all the interpretations where Lilith is just evil, like come on folks have some nuance and originality here, because if we’re gonna demonize (lol) Lilith for running off to Heaven for seven years, you had BEST NOT be giving Lucifer a break for his THOUSANDS of years of possible negligence to his kingdom just because he’s apocalyptically depressed. They’re both entitled to a bad decisions due to burnout and trauma, but check your internalized misogyny; just because Lucifer’s depression is front and center and actively joked about doesn’t mean Lilith isn’t struggling with something too) (I am talking to myself too, folks, don’t worry, I know what I’ve said in past posts has slanted more Lucifer-friendly than Lilith-friendly but again…we just DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LILITH. WE KNOW NOTHING. NOBODY BUT ADAM AND CHARLIE EVER TALKS ABOUT HER. EXCUSE ME I NEED TO FROTH FOR A SECOND), but Charlie and Lilith being carbon copies of each other is probably not the truth. The Hellaverse likes to deal with the complexities of messy relationships, and I would bet money on Charlie and Lilith’s relationship being MESSY. And if it wasn’t before, it sure is about to be.

Where was I? Right. Charlie. Coming to accept her responsibilities as the upcoming leader of Hell, rather than putting off her title and her authority because using them to get things feels mean and wrong to her. Yeah, they absolutely can be mean and wrong when used improperly, but Charlie has been learning so much about leading this season. And the fact that she’s admitting that there was a part of her that didn’t want the position is so fascinating. Because she knows from both of her parents that there is bureaucracy and unpleasant tasks and sometimes being not-so-nice involved in being a leader, especially a leader of a chaotic, violent, traumatized, emotionally unstable place like Hell. And she’s ACCEPTING IT. SHE’S ACCEPTING IT INSTEAD OF THINKING SHE CAN AVOID IT BY FIXING EVERYONE ELSE’S PROBLEMS. DO YOU GET THAT.

Which leads me to Alastor’s surprisingly revealing (for him) comment in the song: “She’s filled with potential that I could guide.” Like. Yeah, dude. This is the sticking point, for me, against the theory of Lilith making a deal with Alastor and ordering him to look after Charlie (for success or failure, take your pick): while I believe he could still make this comment if this were true, it rings far more true to me that Alastor latched onto Charlie as a way to circumvent his deal rather than fulfill it. Charlie is practically a non-entity in Hell, but at least more approachable and far easier to manipulate than Lucifer would be (and present, which rules out Lilith). She underestimates herself, but she has undeniable power even if she doesn’t realize it or is uncomfortable with it—which makes her prime pickings for Alastor, not even counting the abandonment issues, the desperate need for validation, the need to fix everything around her and Alastor being a walking bag of Nope…and then for Rosie to follow that up with “I concur!” just in case anyone forgot she is also an Overlord, albeit a strangely genuine one. And then the joint line: “Stick with her, you’ll be on the winning side.” Definitely more of a follower-type line than a shadow-leader-type line, but I’ll let Alastor have it; his actions, after all, speak to a dedication to Charlie that perhaps he isn’t quite prepared to deal with. But next episode.

Small moment to also feel emotional that the boys all stayed; and not only that, that they were preparing to stay even if Charlie, Vaggie, and Alastor didn’t come back. They CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER DAMMIT.

Alright, I’m off to make dinner and then! The finale! And final thoughts that I’ve been dragging out over the entire season!!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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quillyfied · 7 days

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Oh the agony of being interested in a very popular ship but in a very niche way and not knowing how to even begin searching tags for it

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quillyfied · 7 days

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E6

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Took a brief dinner intermission, now time to dig in, because this episode introduces so much to feast upon I’m probably gonna choke on it!

Hazbin Hotel s1e6, locked and loaded!

One of the stickers on Charlie’s luggage says “Pride” and it isn’t bedecked in rainbows, so I think that’s a pretty good indication too that Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss are still in the same universe. Or at least it’s a nod to when they were. The thing is it shows up twice, now that I’m paying attention, and is a piece of background that follows them around—it’s on Charlie’s guitar case and another piece of luggage that’s in Charlie’s room, in the hotel lobby, and in their room in Heaven. That feels more significant.

(Also please tell me at least one other person hears the music playing when they first approach the gates of Heaven and hears “alien invasion” rather than “heavenly host.”)

I have heard it said that Saint Peter has “Kenergy” and I couldn’t agree more.

Interesting too that while Emily is completely sincere in her welcome and energy, Sera is…not. She’s polite, she smiles, but there’s always an edge underneath her that comes out more fully when talking to Adam in private, and keeping in mind that Sera has been here since before the Beginning and was the one who had to approve things like Lucifer’s Fall and the Exterminations…idk, introducing her with a line like “You are gifted to be here” really makes sense in that context.

OKAY SO MOLLY: according to my friend who has been a Hellaverse fan for years, Molly was originally meant to be in Hell with Angel. Cool story! Makes it especially interesting that for a background cameo, she stands out so much from the other winners. Maybe it’s her color scheme, maybe it’s the shape of her, but she stands out to the point where even if you don’t know who she is, she is hard to ignore. Everyone’s eyes move to follow Charlie and Emily when Emily starts picking up the song after Peter’s “and everyone is hot” line, but when Molly’s eyes are that huge, it’s much easier to notice when she does it. Combining her very obvious placement with this tidbit of background lore that appears to have changed (or did it?), it makes me question even more if Sir Pentious was the first sinner to be redeemed…or if he was just the first one that Sera noticed. She would have no reason to have seen another sinner in her eternal life, and we don’t know what happens to souls when they first show up; maybe teleporting in front of Sera and Emily is normal (I doubt it, since it’s much more likely that they show up in front of the golden gates to be shown in by Peter…which begs the question of why Pentious showed up there other than for narrative convenience). Either way…it’s a thought I’ll be keeping in mind going forward, because the idea of Molly being like Sir Pentious and being a sinner turned winner is very interesting to me.

Sera’s one rule might have been that only the Exorcists could know about the Exterminations…but with Adam’s loud mouth? I do have to wonder if it’s a badly-kept Heavenly secret. And there’s still the question of who the Exorcists are in the Heavenly hierarchy, if they’re Heavenborn or winners or what. (Y’all don’t know how desperately I want a mini-series about Heaven. Just regular life in Heaven. Slice of life stuff. Helluva Boss energy rather than Hazbin Hotel energy.)

Sera’s motivations in this episode are so incredibly interesting to me personally, and her language is worth digging into. “You failed to control the demons’ unrest” okay…so mass murder them once a year so they don’t have the numbers or the strength to rise up, expect it to break their spirits and submit to Heaven’s authority, got it. “I never would have agreed to your yearly activities if I thought it would bring trouble to our doorstep” So Sera has a clear distaste for the Exterminations, but she allows it anyway, all for the sake of keeping Hell out of Heaven’s hair. Or…perhaps something else? “Keeping Heaven safe was my only reason for allowing it.” Hmm. Hang onto this tidbit, might be more important later. “I want you to do whatever you need to in order to stop this problem from getting any worse.” Lady you have the Princess of Hell in here whose plan really boils down to “can you stop killing my people please,” YOU could stop the problem from getting worse if you cared to open up your mind a little.

The thing is, though…there are many reasons why someone can be closed-minded, but the root of it is usually fear. Sera considers protecting Heaven enough of a priority to agree to a yearly genocide that she doesn’t particularly like the idea of. She wants to keep the genocide a secret, because she knows very well how the rest of Heaven will react to being even tangentially responsible for a widespread act of bloodshed and carnage even if it is against sinners (those are the winners’ families too, y’know; look at Angel and Molly). She has all the makings of a leader with good intentions that lets those good intentions lead her to committing war crimes in the name of preserving what she considers to be good and worthy. Getting the shape of her now; let’s move on.

Alright, detour for a second: cannibals. What the actual heck are they? I know none of us know and have theories and blah blah blah, but…everything points to them being sinners, as far as I understand it, even the kids (which, the fact that there are kid sinners…hecked up, dude), but then again, I keep not paying attention in the last episode when several of them are getting killed and potentially showing incriminating gore splatter, so maybe the evidence is there, I just haven’t seen it. But to my understanding, Overlords can only be sinners because only sinners have any use for souls and soul contracts, and an Exorcist wouldn’t be chasing down a kid if it wasn’t a sinner in the first place. Which makes me wonder if there are any Hellborn at all in Pentagram City. We know they exist in Pride at large, assuming once again that HH/HB are in the same universe, because Imp City is in Pride and is the home of IMP, where they specifically cater to sinners (and recently dead ones, too), so sinners have to be able to travel between the cities in Pride. Does this mean that the Exterminations are ring-wide, or are they just centered on Pentagram City because that’s the seat of power? If there’s overcrowding in Hell (Pride), is Pride just that inhospitable a landscape where they can’t build more, or are the Exterminations effective in culling their numbers while still not really making a dent in the overcrowding problem? (Is there actually an overcrowding problem or is that just what Heaven says they’re doing when the real reason is a lot scarier?)

Here we go, the only person to acknowledge Lilith’s existence outside of Charlie, and it’s Adam! And he’s super gross about it! Womp womp! But I suppose he’d be more likely to mention Lilith over Lucifer, since. Y’know. Married to her and all. And apparently making recent deals with her. Maybe. I have a whole Thing about it but it occurred to me to wait until I get to that part of the finale, but. Just wanted to acknowledge that there is one singular person who knows who Lilith is and mentions her and he isn’t even from Hell at all, he’s her shitty ex-husband who comes down to cut her kingdom down to size once a year.

Also, can we admire the audacity Charlie has to approach Heaven—HEAVEN—with her business plan without any indication that the damn thing actually works? That’s the point, that’s the whole point of this episode, but I just. Wow. WOW. She believes in it so hard but she still can’t PROVE it. The fact that she happens to be RIGHT is almost like a huge cosmic coincidence, like she made it happen by believing in it hard enough (and wouldn’t that be a kick in the head?). PRINCESS. OF. PRIDE.

And again, a callback to episode two: when the stakes are higher and the battleground is much more real, Charlie doesn’t go for Sir Pentious to prove that her hotel can work; she goes to Angel, because even though the work he’s been putting in hasn’t been flashy and catering to her initial kindergarten snowflake version of help, it’s been quiet and real and hard-won. Charlie is right to put her faith in Angel, and she sees him and everything he’s doing to improve himself. He’s the perfect candidate for her to make her point. And it’s a beautiful turning of the pilot on its head, because whereas there, Angel embarrasses Charlie and disproves her entire plan, here…he proves her right. He has her back and doesn’t even know it. I am emotional about it.

oKAY HERE IT IS THE BOMBSHELL THE ONE I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR AND NOT THE ONE YOU ALL HAVE PROBABLY BEEN THINKING: Adam was the first human soul in Heaven. It’s been established that while the Hellaverse’s version of Heaven and Hell follows the basic Christian map, it differs in some important key areas. Those familiar with the Biblical story of Genesis might remember a little tale about two brothers named Cain and Abel. The cliffnotes: Cain kills Abel. Abel is the first human who dies according to the Bible. So, with this singular piece of information—Adam was the first human soul in Heaven—we have a few possibilities here. Either Cain and Abel didn’t happen, Adam died before Abel did, or…maybe Abel isn’t in Heaven. And I am fairly certain that the last possibility is the one that excites me most, even if I think the first is the most likely.

But this also leads me to the other topic I’ve been dancing all around throughout these episodes: Adam, Lilith, Alastor, and the nature of their respective afterlives. There’s still one important episode to get through before I can tie all the pieces together, but I can start to weave a lot of them together right now. Adam is explicitly a human soul. The First Human Soul. Lilith was also a human soul. They should be a winner and a sinner, but they aren’t. It’s unknown if Lilith ever even died. So. What the unholy hell happened to them? Does something happen to a human who enters Hell without dying first? Did Lucifer do something to her to help her as they were being cast into Hell? Lilith has, without question, the biggest horns in both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. If someone points out some bigger ones to me that I missed, I’ll be embarrassed, but for now I’m sticking to this point: Lilith got honkin’ horns. Big mommy gorers. Really scarily impressive headgear. Like, proportionally, what are her neck muscles even like?? But more importantly: what she is taxonomically is really unclear, just like Adam. It would appear that as the first creations of Heaven, it’s possible Heaven and Hell respectively changed them. Perhaps Sera gave Adam a promotion and Lucifer, in making Lilith queen, gave her a leg up. They’re something else, something apart from run of the mill angels and demons.

So is Alastor, it would appear, but more on him at the finale when I tie this all up.

Anyway, back to the other regular bombshell: the first indications that no one has any idea what the rules are for getting into Heaven or sent to Hell. I am sincerely wondering what Adam thinks he did in life to “stick it to the Man” and I would love to hear him talk about it, actually.

And for another thing—if he wasn’t so opposed to what Charlie is trying to do, he would be the exact soul to understand what Charlie means about getting a drink with friends at the end of a hard day. What, Adam, you’ve never gone and gotten smashed with your Exorcist buddies at the end of a hard day of Exterminating? Would have been such a sweet gotcha but also ruined the dramatic tension so I get it but meh. I can dream. The Exorcists probably lift more fingers than he does during any given Extermination Day anyway.

(Side note to grumble about the fatphobia; the character designs are so good and varied, Viv, you’re telling me you couldn’t fit more than two fat main-ish characters in the Hellaverse and they’re both pretty shitty people? Anyway. ANYWAY. To be fair, it took me a while to realize that Adam is supposed to be fat; he has a very A-line frame, which is. Y’know. Appropriate. But the “letting yourself go” thing Lucifer says…ugh. Come on. Though I do appreciate that there were no fat jokes about Mammon in the Mid-Season Mammon Special, bc it would have been so easy to slip one in there but they didn’t. That shouldn’t be where the bar is but the bar is…well, not even in Hell, we have to go lower, because of the fat jokes about Moxxie who is visibly not even a little chunky. I get that it’s edgy shock comedy but. Sigh.)

Additional side note to appreciate Joel Perez and wonder if the background stuff he says as Val before Niffty shows up was ad libbed, because “yeah I’m here all the time, they know me” at a sex club called CONSENT just about KILLS ME. THE IRONY. SO MANY LEVELS.

Side note to my side note that I don’t know if that’s actually irony or if I’m so used to that word being applied to funny coincidences that it has lost all meaning.

Anyway I hope Niffty gets to terrorize Valentino more in upcoming seasons. Also the public nature of this standoff between Val and Angel is something I wish they had more time to go into the repercussions of. Angel pulling against the chain, Angel standing up to his abuser for the sake of his friends—I LOVE IT OKAY. HE’S A GOOD MAN.

And there it is, the quiet part said out loud: NOBODY KNOWS WHAT GETS A SOUL INTO HEAVEN. Still the best twist I’ve ever seen in my entire life. And the most maddening piece of worldbuilding to date, because it’s great, it’s flawless, it sets up so many questions and conflicts, but wtf do you MEAN nobody knows?? Well. Clearly somebody must. They know when a soul passes divine judgement (how?), when a soul shows up in Heaven, but who set that mechanism into place? Who does the judging? Who wrote the program? The obvious answer should be God, but God isn’t here, at least not yet. I think it’s entirely possible the Seraphim were following a plan of Creation that they didn’t understand, they just trusted blindly and punished Lucifer for deviating from. It’s a popular view of Heaven in pop culture, tbh. And I just relistened—the souls arrive, and then they pass divine judgement. Is it possible for a soul to arrive and NOT pass divine judgement? Probably not, one would think arriving meant they passed, but…the problem with the fast-paced nature of Hazbin as opposed to Helluva Boss is that stuff like this doesn’t have TIME to get explained, if it would in the first place. It’s just dweebs like me who overanalyze everything and who are stuck gnawing on every scrap we can get our teeth around who maybe ask questions like this. Sigh.

“It is our job to ensure these souls are safe.” Wait for iiiit.

“It’s not as simple as you think. Not everything is spelled in ink.” Wait for iiiiiiiit.

“I’m sure you wish it could be so, but there’s a lot that you don’t know.” Waaaiiiit foooor iiiiit….

(Side note that this song still gives me massive chills, I adore it, but WAIT FOR IT—)

“They were uprising, Emily! It is my position as the head Seraphim to protect our people at all costs! […] Heaven needs us, Emily. […] We can’t doubt ourselves or worry about the fates of demons when we have our own souls to protect.” THERE IT IS. Okay. This isn’t exactly new information, but to hear it from Sera—Sera is TERRIFIED. That’s what strikes me about her. She’s not angry, she’s frightened. She has contempt for Hell, but there is something she is so scared of that she will allow something she clearly abhors because it’s a necessary cost for protecting Heaven. This is what makes me think that either Lilith really was plotting an uprising against Heaven…or something else was. Something else was taking advantage of Hell’s strength, growing as it grew, gaining…root, perhaps? (Roo. It’s Roo. I’m talking about the Root of Evil.) And it also strikes me as significant that Sera is concerned with protecting SOULS. If Heavenborn are like Hellborn, they don’t HAVE souls (except as a metaphor for a sense of self, not as an actual worldbuilding mechanic). We’ve seen that souls can be double-dead. We’ve seen that they can be sold, and told they can be mangled (because I’m not convinced that Alastor’s unlucky Overlords died—I think he shredded them and stuffed them into his radio waves somehow and that’s just where they live now, but that ties into the whole argument of if sinners can regenerate or if anything but angelic steel can kill them). Can something else happen to souls? Is it possible that maybe Roo or something like her can consume souls? Gain their power? Threaten Heaven itself the more she consumes, the more she grows?

Are they afraid of the potential of Roo? Or did she do something to earn that terror? Because the way Sera is acting…my money is on something happening early on or even before Creation, something that the head Seraphim knew about but maybe Lucifer didn’t. That sure seems to be a recurring theme, not telling your sparkly-eyed young dreamers all the risks before they take them and then punishing them when their mistakes get a little too big to handle. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm. Interesting.

Now I’m gonna detour to talk about Emily: it’s a popular theory that Emily is going to Fall, and there is definitely foreshadowing aplenty. But seeing how the other angels in that courtroom seemed to react to Emily, how a good number seemed inclined to agree with her…I’m not so sure now. Conflict in Heaven is unavoidable, because the secret Sera didn’t want getting out is out there now, but will Emily and those who agree with her be cast out…or something else? A War in Heaven is never mentioned in the Hellaverse, another way it diverges from a lot of Genesis-based theology; we don’t know if the Sins in Helluva Boss are Hellborn or Fallen angels like Lucifer, and there’s no mention of any angel falling except for Lucifer in Hazbin Hotel. Could Emily be the one to lead a War in Heaven? Whether that ends with her Falling or not, it’s an incredibly intriguing concept, actually, bringing to the fore the very fears that Sera has been working so hard against. Because if War comes to Heaven, I’m sure certain agents of chaos (Roo) won’t be far behind.

A lot of looking down the road, for me, seems to be forming a shape where Heaven and Hell work together to take care of their souls, hanging onto the ones who like Hell and passing on the ones who put in the work to deserve Heaven. But that still feels too simplistic, too tidy. Combining the two into a singular afterlife is a theory I saw once, which feels slightly more on the mark but I’m not sure. There’s just so much we don’t know—and the fact that there is so much more to the story that Sera knows but refuses to tell Emily or Charlie tells me that it’s finding out the deeper, darker lore that is going to make predicting what will happen with Heaven and Hell easier. Gotta know where you were to know where you’re going and all.

And that is the end of my theorizing for this episode; the next episode probably won’t have much, but the finale is going to be a doozy for wrapping up a lot of my theories about afterlives, Overlords, deals, magic, a lot of it. And I’ll get it done some other day because it takes me over two hours to get through these episodes when I’m pausing to word vomit like this!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E5

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Gonna knock out another two episodes of Hazbin Hotel today and then the last two at some point later this week, and then it’ll be on to Helluva Boss (which will probably be shorter posts overall, because HH is the cosmic-scale conflict show and HB is the interpersonal conflict show, but knock on wood and all).

Time to jump into Hazbin Hotel s1e5!

Charlie starting to understand that the concept of redemption is nowhere near as easy as she thought it would be is such a wonderful, simple, universal, maddening element of coming-of-age stories, where naivete is replaced with experience. And, following that formula, Charlie’s desire to help people with THEIR problems means she can’t ignore HER problems. Ain’t it funny? Her commitment to the idea that she is Right About This can get a little grating, even a little embarrassing to watch (at least for me); I think for me it smacks of well-meaning but ignorant privilege (and being in possession of that and having gone through a lot of growing pains just to see that I have it in the first place, let alone try to grow from it…listen I don’t really believe in “cringe” the way it’s commonly used but I sure do feel it while watching Charlie in a visceral, personal way). But her determination to stop suffering in tangible ways is still an honorable impulse, and her strength of character can only improve by being challenged and knocked down from paths that won’t work.

Charlie’s wording for how the Exterminations came to be is another interesting angle to add to the puzzle. Even Miss Sunshine and Rainbows doesn’t sugar-coat it (except with the original sugar-coating I think she originally heard the story with), saying Lucifer let it happen, that he said, “go ahead and kill everyone.” Up until this point, Lucifer hasn’t been seen in-show except in the first episode’s bedtime story version of backstory. He’s mentioned as a powerful figure, usually in relation to Charlie (or rather, in Charlie’s relationship to him, “Lucifer’s brat,” “Lucifer’s little bitch,” etc.), but he isn’t seen. All we have is Charlie’s unwillingness to reach out to him, a hint of Daddy Issues, and a vision of a dreamer who gets his ideas ignored and makes a mistake that creates Hell. And now with this, the image that we get of Lucifer seems cold, passive, and distant. And, heck, to Charlie, that’s exactly what he is. To EVERYONE, that’s how he seems to be.

So you can imagine the sheer shock and delight that gripped my heart to find out that Lucifer is the picture definition of Just A Little Guy.

(My friend who got me into the Hellaverse and was very much into the fan scene of Hazbin Hotel has told me that she’s having a hard time reconciling fanon, which was all they had for about five years, with what we now get as canon, and it’s interesting because I can see the roots of the ideas that formed that version of Lucifer, because it’s how Charlie sees Lucifer: aloof, distant, caring but not personal. Because. Well. That’s what depression on a powerful man looks like. Mr. Darcy and Lucifer could swap notes.)

(Also, there’s a red bodysuit on a dummy hanging in Lucifer’s room and I want to know what it is and where in Hell Lucifer would wear it.)

(Also also, I want his tea set. It’s so much fun. What the heck.)

Alright, Lucifer: this guy. This adorable, wacky, deeply broken little man. This guy who is supposed to be the scariest, most powerful being in Hell…and whom Alastor IMMEDIATELY picks a fight with. Part of this I personally see as Alastor’s natural arrogance; he’s uncomfortable not being the person in the room with the most power and control, so re-establishing that is important. Doubly important to him, I believe, is keeping his influence over Charlie, which Lucifer could most definitely threaten. Lucifer too isn’t used to having his authority challenged, not by some random sinner, and Lucifer does not like sinners. Like, full stop, doesn’t care about them, agreed to the Exterminations against them (likely as a trade to keep his family safe, which is an understandable trade and certainly one more up Lucifer’s alley, letting it happen rather than enacting it himself), doesn’t want Charlie to put herself on the line for them. And so having one belittle and threaten him and his standing with Charlie makes for an absolutely delectable tension, from which we get a very fun musical number.

(And look maybe it’s my very stupid Homestuck brain but the kismessitude is off the CHARTS, they are perversely loving poking at each other and it is FUN TO WATCH OKAY.)

Also, watching Alastor manipulate his way through the first half of this episode makes the catharsis of Lucifer’s genuine affection later (once he and Charlie hash out more of the bullcrap first) so much better, and it reinforces a running theme through the show (both shows actually): that the false or shallow stuff (Words, to use Rosie’s later advice) can entertain or help only so far before it falls apart, and the real stuff (Actions) is hard work but often the more truthful, stable stuff long-term. And “stuff” really is a catch-all term here: Alastor’s simpering false affection versus Lucifer’s genuine deeper fatherly love, Valentino’s version of love versus the Hotel’s version of love, Blitzo and Stolas’ full moon agreement versus the underlying feelings they have for each other, Sir Pentious’ first day “progress” versus his real, actual redemption after he sacrifices himself for people he was fully planning to shoot six months ago, Crimson’s playing nice towards Moxxie versus Blitzo’s actual trust in and care towards Moxxie. Real love, real support, real relationships, real progress: they’re messy, they’re hard, they’re not going to be storybook perfect, or as easy as sharing feelings and doing a couple of trust falls. I’m out in left field here again but this principle is so foundational to both of these shows; it’s 100% why I believe that if and when Alastor’s moment to turn on the Hotel and Charlie comes, it’s going to be such a satisfying and probably heart-wrenching moment, because even the detached sadistic Radio Demon might not be immune from making valuable connections that would bother him to lose. His game of manipulation and guiding Charlie towards a particular goal of his might get its hooks into him in ways he doesn’t expect—when the care he professes to have for Charlie turns into real care rather than a way to snipe at Lucifer.

ANYWAY.

Nice to see the theater that the hotel façade is always broadcasting, though not sure if it counts as real since it’s during a musical number. And to bring back the last point about fake vs. real feelings: Lucifer himself undergoes a transformation this episode, too. Alastor is laying it on thick, but Lucifer is as well, he’s just painfully sincere about it and that makes it worse. He doesn’t know how to emotionally connect to Charlie, but he wants to smother her with affection and gifts and favors, since that’s about all he has to offer. It doesn’t occur to him until Charlie snaps at him that what she really wants and needs from him is…him. Himself. And being horrifically depressed and isolated doesn’t do much for a person, especially a person who screwed up in about the worst way a being can and as punishment got kicked out of his home, forced into a place he doesn’t like (and maybe can never escape), and made to watch the fruits (lol) of his labor churn out thousands of years of pain and suffering. Lucifer doesn’t GET that all Charlie needs is HIM. Why would she need HIM?? She can need the stuff he can get her, she can need favors from him, but HIM??? His support, his love, his encouragement? Madness. Nobody needs Lucifer. Lucifer is a sad sack hiding away in his ducky room, nobody needs that. I’m not projecting. This is fine.

SO. Next important building block into the “so blood colors in Hazbin Hotel specifically, what’s that about” discussion: Lucifer doing the Vivziepop crazy-eyes-with-drippy-mouth deranged expression. His bloody mouth drippies? They’re gold. Lucifer is still an angel. He’s a Fallen angel, but we don’t really know what that means in this context, because Vaggie is also an angel who lives in Hell but is never referred to as Fallen, but Lucifer still self-identifies as an angel, never as a demon. He still has the wings, he still has the powers, he still has the golden blood, APPARENTLY. But he also has the demonic form, the fire powers, the authority of a king of Hell. So, okay, he bleeds golden. Angels do that. Sinners were once human; they bleed red. We don’t seem to meet another Hellborn demon who runs into trouble in Hazbin Hotel, but in Helluva Boss, Hellborn demons bleed black. And if we’re running on the assumption that HH and HB still exist in the same universe, the black blood for Hellborn demons should hold true for HH, right? Keep this thought in mind, it’ll become important at the finale.

MIMZY! With her Mammon tattoo that drives me up the wall because sinners can’t leave Pride so why does she have that!!!!

Her version of Alastor’s backstory is, again, sort of unreliable, but it’s probably pretty close to the truth (just not the WHOLE truth, but there are some things that will probably never be discussed because they’re not important to the story but I’m just curious about them…like exactly how long it took for Alastor to start gaining clout, how he managed to take down powerful Overlords all on his own, if he’s always been freaky-powerful and different or if he became that way, what he knows and if he exploited Hellish loopholes or just read the proverbial instruction manual, if any of the Overlords he destroyed signed their souls to him first, etc. etc. etc.). And it serves the purpose of filling in some context for Alastor and why even after a seven-year absence he seems feared and respected still (by certain folks, anyway). But knowing all of this, and knowing Husk used to be an Overlord too…it raises a lot of the same questions from last episode, with interest after Husk goes to try and talk to him about Mimzy.

A short play-by-play: Husk interrupts Alastor’s now-silent pissing contest with Lucifer to bring up a concern with him. Alastor dismisses and belittles Husk. Husk lashes out with an incredibly dangerous piece of knowledge. Alastor wastes no time in putting Husk back in his place. They part ways, Alastor superior and Husk cowed.

Now let’s dig in a little deeper: Husk goes to Alastor to warn him about Mimzy out of concern. That’s interesting. Concern for Alastor? Concern for the hotel and its residents? Both? Alastor’s self-inflated ego is both his strength and his weakness; it’s entirely fair of Husk to bring up that Alastor has been missing for a little while, and to point out that nobody knows WHY—the implication being, with Alastor’s absence, fear of his abilities will have dwindled some (and Mimzy did just get done saying that he hasn’t gone on an Overlord-killing spree in a while, though what “a while” means is unclear). And given that seven years was enough time for the Vees to rise in power and get a chokehold on Hell like they have, Husk’s concerns are entirely valid, even reasonable.

Alastor’s reaction is beautifully in-character: an assertion and confidence in his own abilities, and a subtle reminder to Husk of his position in their relationship and what and who Alastor is to him (yes, calling him a pet is “subtle;” the overt way happens shortly). Alastor doesn’t want Husk’s concern; just his compliance. Alastor is aware that Husk still has value as an underling, but he isn’t so irreplaceable that Alastor wouldn’t destroy him for impertinence in a heartbeat. Here’s the next thought, though: does Alastor not like the impertinence…or is he afraid?

Because here’s my next huge batch of questions: how does Husk know that Alastor is on a leash? How is it that Husk isn’t an Overlord anymore and instead is owned by one, but Alastor is himself not in possession of his own soul (maybe) and yet retains his powers, his souls, his standing? Is Alastor on the hook for his whole soul, or something else? Alastor as a deal-maker has shown that he deals in way more things than just souls; while souls seem to be the most powerful currency, they aren’t the only currency—or the only things that grant power. But it isn’t like most owned souls go around with a collar and leash with “return to owner” tags on them. Does Husk know because as a former Overlord he can recognize some of the signs in Alastor somehow? Is there some sort of mutual sense connection between them? Alastor owns Husk, but Husk only allowed himself to be owned to save his power. What does that mean? Do Alastor and Husk have a typical Overlord/owned soul relationship, or is there something different about their contract?

Any way you dice it, Husk overstepped a line that Alastor did not want crossed (oh the irony), and Alastor’s immediate reaction to challenges to his authority is to assert that authority with a show of force. Up until now, that show of force has just been creepy static Alastor, but with Husk, he has something more visceral. Husk’s contract with Alastor as represented by the ropes in Loser is airtight, inescapable and neat and complete. Likewise, Alastor’s chain on Husk is far more tangible than Valentino’s on Angel, more inescapable. And Husk, very rightly, is scared witless of his boss and what Alastor could do to him. Husk was an Overlord; he knows the feeling now of being on both ends of the leash, what a person can do with a soul they own. Alastor cannot afford to be challenged by someone he could destroy with a thought. More than that, Husk needs to be reminded of his place and that his place includes silence about what he knows. It’s framed as Alastor punishing and threatening Husk for the backtalk, but I think it’s a little deeper than that; I think it’s also him ensuring Husk doesn’t go spreading it around that Alastor is also on the hook with somebody else.

I wonder if it keeps Husk up at night, to know that the demon he sold (lost?) his own soul to did the exact same thing, that there is something bigger and scarier and more powerful than Alastor out there and what might happen to Husk if Alastor gets destroyed.

Aaaanyway.

Back to Lucifer, who is in the middle of trying to parent his child away from making very similar mistakes that he himself made without being open about it, like a parent does. The problem being, Charlie isn’t a child anymore. And her doing things like challenging Heaven and taking sinners under her metaphorical wings is going to have consequences much bigger than she’s aware of because she hasn’t been told the whole truth, the whole story. But even in his roundabout way, Lucifer IS telling Charlie pieces of the story—“You build something nice” Was that Lucifer trying to make the best out of a bad situation? He gets to Hell, he tries to make the best of it, he fixes up Hell to be this neat and fun circus. Woohoo! “You invite them in” So the first sinners show up, Lucifer has Hell all ready for them, and… “And they just bring violence and chaos to your doorstep.” It didn’t work out very well, did it? Humans create environments that are what they’re comfortable in, which means recreating what they know and understand; it’s what makes recovery for abuse victims so difficult, what makes PTSD recovery so difficult, what makes actually growing and overcoming our issues and bad coping mechanisms so difficult. And with a ruler who doesn’t understand humans, already knows that to get to Hell they had to do something wrong, and gets his assumptions proven right when sinners return to the behaviors they know and understand best…yeah, not so much a surprise that “it doesn’t matter how well-intentioned you are, they're always going to disappoint you” is what flies out of Lucifer’s mouth next, huh?

Lucifer is what Charlie could become if she lets herself become jaded and closed-off. Because some of the most miserable sad sacks in existence are the failed dreamers.

But hark!

“How come he can have faith in me but my own father can’t?”

Lucifer’s wake-up call, and the subsequent musical number where two very important sides are shared: Lucifer’s failed attempts at realizing his own visions for creation (and the way he puts it…it sounds like he tried to help sinners too, at first, but got too hurt in the process to continue; maybe he’s just referring to giving humans free will in the first place, but there seems to me to be little hints that even after getting to Hell he was still trying to help humanity and he failed), and Charlie’s core drives and goals (ignited by seeing her own dad’s creativity, still alive even after being pretty well mangled, not that she knew that as a kid; Charlie being aware of Lucifer’s intentions to help when he gave Eve the apple is probably a safe bet given the storybook, but her childhood innocence keeping her shielded from how badly that failure fucked him up also shielded her from his cynicism and despair and helped her cultivate real determination to make her ideas work). Lucifer failed, but he can help Charlie succeed—and even if she doesn’t, what she really needs from him is just the support. She does need him—and he can be there for her. He can be scared for her, want to protect her, but he can also set aside the impulse to hide her away to be who she actually needs, which is someone who steps up to help her and cheers her on.

He can be for Charlie what he couldn’t be for Lilith, in other words. Because what he needs to DO for Charlie is ultimately to let her go. To let her make her own decisions, and step in only when she needs him. Not to smother her, not to hide from her, just to be there on her terms. It’s visibly difficult for Lucifer to submit to Charlie’s request for a meeting with Heaven. But he does it. Because it’s what she needs (in more ways than he knows tbh).

There’s a million other little details I’m glossing over—Alastor throwing Mimzy out (and the implications that Alastor doesn’t want trouble like that coming to the Hotel constantly—either because he doesn’t WANT to be fending demons off like that, or maybe he CAN’T?), Husk’s little look of satisfaction as she leaves (yeah Alastor gave him absolute hell earlier but he was right, and Alastor did get rid of her, so in a way, didn’t Husk win?), Sir Pentious’ TV Guide magazine as the three onlookers swap between the two dramas unfolding before them (perfect gag, love it), wondering if Lucifer knew what Vaggie was (unlikely but you never know; maybe he just figured it wasn’t a secret so he didn’t say anything), Alastor’s twitching smile when Lucifer first enters the hotel and throws himself at Charlie, the “It’s A Boy” banner hanging in the background of the hotel—but I’m pretty sure I hit all the marks I wanted to make. There was a lot of meat to chew over in this episode.

And there’s gonna be even more next episode!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E4

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Second episode for tonight is the absolute masterpiece that is Angel’s episode, which might not get my head turning on many theories but does give me many feels, so let’s crack on.

Hazbin Hotel, s1e4:

I SEE IT. 3:38, there’s another Morningstar family portrait in the background right next to Angel’s head, far right. I’ve seen this one up close elsewhere, but it’s nice to see it in the show; Charlie looks a little older, maybe preteens, and her parents are clearly nowhere near each other. Separation impending if not already implemented. Sad. But more importantly: it was painted at that very hotel. The background details of the painting are the same. I just sort of find it significant that Charlie took over a building clearly falling to ruins that not only belongs to her family (and isn’t being used so is perfect for her to just…move into), but might have been the last place she saw her parents together and still making an effort for her. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm. Interesting.

“Why is this so hard? What am I doing wrong?” PRINCESS OF PRIDE, FOLKS. Said it before. I’ll say it again. She’s a natural at overestimating and underestimating herself all at once, inserting herself into situations she has no business being in and thinking she can do just about anything she sets her mind to, while simultaneously downplaying her own strengths in favor of trying to be what she thinks everyone else needs. Chef’s kiss, perfect character conflict, no notes.

(Angel’s butt has freckles. It’s a detail that makes me giggle every time.)

“I’m—coming!” “Not off camera, you’re not!” Perfect line delivery. Hysterical. Low-hanging fruit but way funnier for going for it instead of passing over it. Nice.

Alright, another aside about Valentino: he’s an idiot, but he isn’t stupid. Not entirely. I’m glad we all reached the same conclusion that Val licking Charlie’s arm is a power move, as is his physical imposition into her space. A reminder to her that she’s in his domain right now, and a clear setup for himself to have all the chips in this interaction despite his wretched poker face. Then again, what need does he have for a poker face when he DOES have all the power in that situation, at least all the power that matters—power over Angel himself, whom Charlie cares about? His ace is right there, out in the open as both symbol and warning. This metaphor is falling apart. I don’t know anything about poker. But y’all get what I’m saying, right? Val doesn’t need to be the smartest man in the room when he’s already made himself the most powerful through fairly simple and effective tactics. Licking his way up Charlie’s arm and offering her a job and making her deeply uncomfortable is him regaining the power she takes from him just by existing in his space as a more powerful demon than he is by default. It’s slimy. It's foul. It’s effective. And it works, dammit.

Charlie. My love. My princess. My dearest. Did you really just try to suggest…more WHOLESOME SCENARIOS for PORN?? Like I believe she can do it, and especially given what she’s watching Angel about to be subjected to, I can see where her mind is at with “more wholesome,” but. The wording. The gumption. Charlie this is pornography, not romance. Not saying the two can be mutually exclusive, but given what kind of studio Val runs and what people go to porn for as opposed to other kinds of storytelling…baby. Honey. No. Bull in a china shop, thy name is Charlie Morningstar.

Alright, this here: the first time we see a demon contract. Obviously no fine print to get our greedy little eyeballs on, just a simple bit of imagery (almost like the contracts in The Little Mermaid, tbh, same color, same sort of vibe, why am I imagining Val swanning around his tower singing Poor Unfortunate Souls and why would Joel Perez absolutely CRUSH it—), but combining that with how casually Val abuses and later assaults Angel really drives home how helpless the contractee is. They’re entirely owned. The only thing they have of value, their souls, their Free Will, belongs to someone else. I imagine soul contracts are of particular abhorrence to Lucifer; they’re actively throwing away his gift when they enter into those. Though he probably never thinks about them at all, tbh, he doesn’t need to own a soul to have power. And the power of souls and owning of souls and what that power can do and manifest as is so nebulous but SO interesting, and I’m especially excited to get to talk to it in regards to Alastor and Husk, but I have to get through the Poison number first, excuse me for a moment.

(Angel is so brave and so good for defending Charlie even though she’s literally the Princess of Hell; I don’t know that she could squash Valentino like the bug he is, not until she gains more confidence in herself, but Lucifer and Alastor certainly could and they both have vested interest in keeping her safe and happy. Though for very different reasons. The point being: Charlie doesn’t need Angel to protect her, but he does it anyway and I love him for that.)

(Additional sidenote: I think Val might have some scary vocal stuff happening when he’s threatening Angel, but that’s as close as I personally remember seeing any other Overlords even come close to what Alastor can do. Which begs the question: is it because Alastor is special, or is it because Alastor is a dramatic bitch who throws his power around because he can?)

The nature of Angel’s contract with Val is so interesting too, especially when put with the visual cues we have about Husk’s even just in the Loser number; Val owns Angel, but can only force him to do things in the studio (which very handily lends quiet strength to Angel’s presence in the first episode and his hurt feelings in the second, and gives more context for Val’s hissy fit in the second episode. If Angel isn’t living in the studio, Val can’t do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Angel gains some independence and it’s powerful). Val can throw Angel around outside of it because he still owns Angel, but the power seems less; however, the look of his chains no matter what are wispy and insubstantial, clearly a callback to Val’s toxin but still not the strongest-looking chain in the world (though because it looks like the toxin, there's also elements of Angel choosing this, Angel being addicted to the situation, Angel's loss of control because of his addiction, Angel wanting to leave but he can't, etc). Angel’s ropes in Loser are a mess, tangled but loose-looking, like he could wriggle out given enough time. Husk, on the other hand, is bound tightly and his chain, when we see it next episode, looks significantly more substantial and real. None of this is new information, we all know it, but still. Establishing this for my own benefit while I spin off into wild tangents about the nature of Overlords and Hell, because Husk says something incredibly interesting during Loser that I have sunk my teeth into and apparently can’t let go of.

But before that: detour to mention how amusing I find it that loan sharks apparently are a constant in Hell, no matter if they’re sinners or Hellborn, but I also really have to wonder if any of the sharks in HH are actually Hellborn and they just didn’t get the black blood that Hellborn have in HB because they’re not allowed to exist in the same universe anymore. I have another example to support this theory but it isn’t until the last episode so I’ll leave it alone for now.

Alright, back to Husk and Overlords and blahdiblahdiblah: I don’t know anything about casino games, so I would love some guidance on this, but…did Alastor win Husk’s soul with a game of “pick a card, any card?” Bc that’s sure as heck what it looks like. I think the flashback might be more symbolic than literal, but with Husk leaning forward with a finger extended, it sure LOOKS like he’s picking a card out of Alastor’s hand and hoping it isn’t one that’s going to screw him over. But even that feels at odds with the wording of Husk discussing his own deal: “So when you’re down on your luck, you’ll do anything to keep yourself afloat, even making deals yourself.” And later, in the song: “I sold my soul to save my power.” What…does that mean? What does it mean for Husk and his abilities now? What does it mean for Alastor and what he gets from the deal?

What Alastor gets from it, I’m building up to, because I’m pretty sure the ultimate show of it is in the finale. But what HUSK got from the deal…is really unclear. He sold his soul to save his power, to keep himself afloat—and yet he doesn’t own a casino (if he ever did in this version, but come on, he was an Overlord, you don’t get to be one of those without at least a base of operations), he’s at Alastor’s beck and call, he doesn’t exhibit any abilities more powerful than any other bog-standard demon. The exploding dice and fighting with cards is cool, but so is the ability to pull six tommy guns out at will. The specifics of what this means might not become clear for a while, but while Husk has a lot of strength that’s more internal than external—his wisdom and compassion are nothing to sneeze at, even if he hides both under layers of cynicism and apathy—it would be very interesting to see Alastor use Husk for something other than bartending and see what utility he might have apart from that. Because Husk as a source of endless entertainment could certainly be all Alastor has Husk for, but this is a guy who made no bones about destroying Overlords, canonically multiple very powerful Overlords, and using them for his own entertainment and power. And yet Husk is more or less just himself despite having once been an Overlord too. Not destroyed, not subsumed, not will-broken. He’s scared of Alastor, as he has every right to be, but not so scared that he won’t grumble and complain and try to talk to his boss when he’s clearly in the middle of a pissing contest with the King of Hell, exCUSE you Husker.

Anyway. My current theory is that maybe Husk made a deal to not be killed or destroyed by someone he got into much deeper water with than he was prepared for, and throwing his lot in with Alastor was better than facing destruction. But still, that element of randomness that appears to be in Husk’s flashback…it haunts me. Sinners sell their souls because they’re desperate. Was Husk even still an Overlord by the time Alastor got to him? Did Husk still own any souls, and if he did, what happened to them? Because as will become clear in one episode, you can have someone else own your soul and still be in control of your own contracts. But whether that’s a special clause of the deal Alastor made, or if it’s usual for even Overlords to sometimes be in thrall to greater Overlords…not sure. Not enough data.

And while I would love to continue typing like a madwoman while I pause these episodes for long stretches of time, I must obey the demands of my body and rest.

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E3

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! It’s been a little bit; life got busy, I have a semi-major medical procedure at the end of next week, and my reverse seasonal depression is hitting real hard this year, so let’s jump into the madness.

Starting tonight with s1e3!

Short diversion to say: Lucifer sending Charlie out into the world with Razzle and Dazzle (who can turn into dragons) and KeeKee (who appears to be a powerful tool of creation that Lucifer uses, though all the theories I’ve seen people swapping around say it’s something more integral to the hotel itself rather than to Lucifer, but just based on what’s in the show…sure looks like Lucifer gave away a heckin powerful magical artifact to his daughter) is sensible but also warms my heart so much. And I would love so much to know if that was Lucifer’s doing at all, or Lilith’s, or a joint venture from the both of them. I am so ready to learn more about their relationship without the Charlie Blinders on.

Y’know. There is a very strong trend I’m noticing about my own fiction preferences right now wherein a bubbly blond of privileged status undertakes an impossible task to make a difference in the places they choose to be, meet a colorful cast of queer characters, and continually fail while also somehow succeeding at the bigger and more important task of creating a space where a bunch of traumatized folks with a lot of baggage can feel safe to work through those issues and bond with each other and form wonderful found families. Charlie and Stede Bonnet from Our Flag Means Death would have a DELIGHTFUL afternoon tea of swapping lesson plans, is what I’m saying.

(And Angel and Lucius would probably have a field day swapping stories but anyway)

Charlie and Vaggie’s relatively harsh sex-negative attitudes strike me as unusual for the show, which IMO itself has a pretty sex-neutral to sex-positive stance, depending on the angle. It begins to make more sense with a later episode and I’m sure I’ll talk more about this then, but in case I forget: they both appear to be operating off of what they THINK is the standard for getting into Heaven, which…is baloney because NOBODY knows how a soul gets into Heaven (and once they’re there they still bone with frequency and impunity, or at least Adam does). But if you’re going off the basic Christian-centric idea of sin, I can see where Charlie and Vaggie are coming from. Though Vaggie should know a little better what the Heavenly culture is like around those kinds of things, but tbh until we get more information, my assumption is that Vaggie hung around Exorcists pretty exclusively and they seem like a separate class entirely from other angels, if their jobs are a secret from the rest of Heaven and they purposely go into battle fully helmed. They’re two sheltered girls without a clue.

(The way Charlie turned out does make me heavily question what Lilith was actually like and how she expected Charlie to act. I want to KNOW dangit.)

Zestialllllll. I adore him. And I adore that he is, outside of Lucifer, most likely the most ancient being in Hell that we see. Certainly he’s the oldest sinner, and given that there are at least three methods of regular mortal turnover in Hell, that makes his very existence highly impressive. He’s survived hundreds of years of Overlord politics, turf wars, and Exterminations (assuming they’ve been going on for a while, GIVE ME A NUMBER VIVIENNE I NEED TO KNOW), and is so well known that people SET THEMSELVES ON FIRE to get away from him and Alastor walking together down the street. And Alastor gives him something much closer to actual deference, as opposed to what he gives the literal ruler of Hell next episode (a high-charged rivalry anthem on par with Loathing from Wicked, how have I not seen anyone do an edit or a comic of that one yet).

“Some have spun tales of you falling to holy arms.” Followed by Alastor pulling a major bluff, complete with shifty eyes. So Zestial’s information isn’t entirely inaccurate. Which still means just about anyone could be holding the other end of Alastor’s leash, but the major theories of it being Lilith (my personal favorite but also too easy and coincidental, feels like a red herring) or Eve (bound up somehow with Roo, I can just feel it) still feel most plausible to me. This could be foreshadowing and Zestial is wrong, since Alastor does nearly die due to holy arms in the finale, but…those shifty eyes. Zestial is definitely close, guessing a little too near the mark for Alastor’s comfort. What the HECKIE happened that put the Radio Demon and the Queen of Hell down for the count for the same amount of time? It is MADDENING. The incidents are obviously related, but how did that end with Alastor showing back up in Hell and Lilith up in Heaven?

(My cracked fanfic writer brain just went “Lilith decided she was done and passed her Queen duties to the deer man, Lucifer just found out he’s essentially married in power to Alastor, now discuss” but that is getting stuffed to the back of the mental closet where I will only ponder it late at night when I need a good giggle. Especially because it’s far more plausible that if Alastor and Lilith have any kind of deal whatsoever, it has to do with guiding and helping Charlie.)

(…could it be possible that Lilith’s deal with Adam involved trading Alastor somehow? Unlikely, since Adam had no idea who Alastor was, but Alastor being used as a pawn instead of being a major player would be such a delicious burden for his arrogant ass to bear and I kinda want to see it.)

Anyway.

Seeing an Overlord meeting is so fascinating, because watching Velvette come in and immediately challenge Carmilla and Zestial very much establishes something of a generation gap; the oldest Overlords in the room versus the youngest. But before I get ahead of myself and how BRILLIANTLY MANIPULATIVE Velvette is, a little stage-setting: no Overlords appear to have the same business dealings as the Vees, though there is genuine friendship between some of them (Carmilla and Zestial, Alastor and Rosie). No Overlords are locking horns at this meeting before Velvette shows up, no hint of political undercurrents or rivalries. The Overlords in the room are also high-rollers, it seems, the more powerful of the bunch, if only SIX of them own MILLIONS of souls. However, there are some hints after Velvette’s musical number to further shed some light on what Hellish politics are like, but before she comes in, all seems fine. Alastor gets his pride wounded (much to my personal amusement), but overall it’s perfectly civil.

Enter that hashtag bitch.

Her entire performance from top to bottom is a calculated strategy. Step one, show up late, ruffle some feathers with her lack of decorum, make it very clear up front that she’s showing up despite having better things to do. Put Carmilla on the back foot right away. But Carmilla is a professional; she’s a ballerina, used to dancing around her opponents. Step two, pull out the angel’s head and keep a close eye on Carmilla’s reaction, and start to push when Velvette meets immediate resistance to her “full assault plan” (I will eat my hat if they had such a thing at all; the three of them are safe in their fancy tower and they know it, and Velvette attending this meeting was never about the Vees working together with other Overlords at all). Step three: annihilate the meeting, push Carmilla into either admitting what she did and starting an uproar across all of Hell or shutting down the discussion before it can come to light, and the result is: the Overlords don’t actually sit down and make a plan about what to do about this accelerated Extermination. The Vees’ power remains unchallenged as the other Overlords scramble to keep theirs. Velvette planned this from the beginning.

The lyrics in the finale number confirm it, too “After the battle, masterless cattle, Overlords hanging by a thread…nature abhors a power vacuum, it leaves room for you and me. The future of Hell belongs to the Vees.” What better way to secure power than making sure your enemies can’t organize, even if it isn’t against you at first? The Vees are formidable, practically untouchable, because they work together. They can’t have other Overlords doing the same thing, because uniting against one seemingly impossible threat and succeeding has ripple effects. It becomes easier to unite against other threats. And if every other Overlord in Hell decided to band together to take down the Vees, the Vees wouldn’t win that encounter. Much easier to let Overlords’ natural distrust of each other continue to keep them alone and vulnerable while the Vees work in the background to take advantage of that vulnerability.

The Vees are a union-busting corporate tech giant monopoly, is what I’m saying.

Annnnyway.

Side note about character design: Velvette and Carmilla and Carmilla’s daughters all having very similar, if not the same, eye design is fascinating, but I’m not sure if it denotes a connection between them, since they also have the same eye design as hellhounds (seen more in Helluva Boss but there are a few in the background of Hazbin Hotel), and I’m not sure what to make of that tbh. Though Velvette being a doll and the Carmines being ballet-themed, possibly music box ballerina themed, does strike me as interesting too.

Okay, Zestial’s response: “Mightn’t they purge all of Hell for daring an uprising?” He’s the oldest guy in the room. He’s the most cautious, the most cunning, and one of the most powerful Overlords in that room, so probably in all of Hell. And what he just said is EXACTLY why the Exterminations are happening in the first place. Which begs the question: do the sinners know why Exterminations happen? Charlie knows, or at least knows a version of the story; Zestial being so ancient and also throwing out this incredibly obvious possibility that is already currently happening…I’m not sure if this is a writing continuity error or a hint that Exterminations have been happening for longer than Zestial has been around, so long that the original reason for it is lost to time for those who weren’t old enough to be there. The cautious way that Zestial and Carmilla are determined to stop Hell from trying to go to open war against Heaven makes me think that even if they don’t know the reason for the Exterminations, they’re smart enough to guess, and to want to keep their heads down and their people as safe as they can possibly be during a yearly bloodbath.

Also it continues to beg the question of why Lucifer “granted a pardon” to the Hellborn in the first place, if it was so long ago that Charlie probably didn’t exist yet, because a Hellborn sanction wouldn’t protect Lilith. She isn’t Hellborn. Technically neither is Lucifer, but I assume they figured that as an angel, even a fallen one, he wasn’t going to be in any danger anyway (since it apparently took ten thousand years for them to figure out on a wider scale that angelic steel kills angels too) (though it wouldn’t surprise me if the Seraphim all knew and just didn’t say anything). I’m rambling now but hOW LONG, VIV. HOW LONG HAVE THE EXTERMINATIONS BEEN GOING. I’M GOING TO START SCRAWLING ON THE WALLS.

“That was a productive meeting!” Okay, that’s my indication that expecting anything actually useful from this was probably a high bar to reach, but Velvette throwing an angelic bomb in the mix and then working Carmilla up to a bloody froth didn’t help, either. Overlords don’t collaborate, they don’t band together, they don’t share power. Even the Vees’ brand is held together with a lot of mutual self-interest and each one of them thinking that they’re the top of the operation. Though, personally, with this one scene, my money is on Velvette for being the top of that particular dogpile. Since. Y’know. She just single-handedly destroyed any chance of the Overlords working together to try and protect Hell.

(Also please tell me there’s at least one fanfic out there where the Hotel crew actually gives BDSM a shot. I don’t need to read it; I just need to know it exists. With a more nuanced and fair view of what professional BDSM is that isn’t just “weird deviant sex.”)

I can also see why a lot of people think Carmilla is a fallen angel when she’s placed so very obviously in narrative parallel with Vaggie. Part of me thinks this is merely foreshadowing to Carmilla becoming Vaggie’s mentor, because Carmilla being an Overlord and having daughters both seem like things that angels don’t do (and Carmilla’s daughters sharing physical similarities with her indicates to me that they might not be adopted daughters, but perhaps her actual daughters from life, since Sinners can’t reproduce). But there are plenty of little tidbits that would lend themselves to Carmilla being a fallen angel as well, such as the winged shape of her face markings and her general coloration being similar to Exorcists. Not to mention her deep knowledge of how to beat them, but that could very well be the decades or even centuries of observance Carmilla would have gotten in as one of the few demons willingly out during an Extermination Day. I lean towards Not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she was, either. (How Carmilla and Vaggie both speak Spanish if they were both once angels is another question I want answered, tbh, but that could be something as simple as Heaven/Hell being multicultural by design and maybe they just sort of picked it up. But that doesn’t feel right tbh.)

“I just thought this would all be easier.” OH HELLO MAJOR THEME OF THE SHOW. Charlie’s naivete can be so charming sometimes, but so deeply saddening other times. Watching her grow up and start to shed some of that is a satisfying and subtle character arc and I can’t wait to keep watching her go.

Pentious having minions that have nothing to do with his power makes me more inclined to think that the little creatures that Alastor summons are souls he owns, but again, there’s literally no way to tell just by watching the show right now. Sigh.

Okay, only took two hours to get through this episode, so let’s take another two for the next one! It’ll be fine!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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quillyfied · 10 days

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Taylor for heck’s sake if you’re gonna drop a double album on me at least have it in cd form so I can maintain my collection, because burning a digital copy to cd myself is something I’m willing to do but then it won’t MATCH

#AAAAUGH #I DONT LIKE THESE GAMES YOU PLAY WITH BONUS TRACKS T SWIFT #I SURE DONT

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quillyfied · 12 days

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E2

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse!

Here we are at Hazbin Hotel, s1e2 (and it's much shorter than s1e1, thank goodness):

Sir Pentious. My darling. My dearest. What a dweeb. What a maroon. This isn’t a theory, it’s a fact: I love him.

Okay, here we go, the ultra-dangerous Vees that I think get underestimated in their own ways. For a start, they’re a collective of three Overlords actively working together, which isn’t something the show seems to suggest is normal for Overlords up until this point. It’s also interesting to me that Valentino is the most universally hated, to the point where certain folks woobify Vox and Velvette into being his unfortunate victims, but. I think that’s giving Val way too much credit, and certainly not giving Velvette and Vox enough. As the tweet that Viv cackled over goes, Val is Karen to the other two’s Regina and Gretchen. And I don’t know who takes Regina George’s spot, Vox or Velvette, and I’m sure they’d fight pretty viciously for it, but all three of them are terrible and especially terrible together. How calculating and smart Velvette is will be expounded on more later, but Vox can literally hypnotize thousands of people when given the right tools, and I know we collectively aren’t ignoring how horrific the television industry can be in real life. So imagine that culture in Hell, run by a guy with a psychosexual obsession with a deer man who rejected him and a tempestuous situationship with Valentino of all people. Yikes.

Anyway, to the more important bit: the first hint that sinners can be killed and regenerated. Valentino is wrecking Velvette’s department and tore up her best model. And the show can’t wait for that unlucky bitch to pull herself back together. Could be a glib reference to how the model is useless to Velvette double-dead and how dare she die on the job. Could be more literal and sinners can regenerate from deaths that aren’t inflicted by angelic steel, it just takes some time depending on the method of death. This is too VAGUE, I need CONCRETE EXAMPLES AND REFERENCES.

Like okay to get back to the “all the Vees are terrible” argument, VELVETTE LITERALLY SELLS A DATE RAPE DRUG DISTILLED FROM VALENTINO’S VENOM. VOX TAKES ADVANTAGE OF HELL’S PANIC OVER THE EXTERMINATION TO SELL HIS BRAND AND THEN OFFERS TO FETCH A GROUP OF UNLUCKY EMPLOYEES FOR VAL TO SHOOT. Granted, his orders to his assistant seem promising, with wanting to get in touch with Carmilla about actually developing angelic security, but there appears to be no follow-through and Vox is more than happy to sit safely in his tower and peep on everyone else while the Extermination is happening, so. Y’know. Screw that guy. Anyway.

Moment of adoration for Joel Perez and his voice acting. The RANGE. The DRAMA. The FABULOSITY. Valentino is absolutely a scumbag but what a great performance.

I need to know DESPERATELY if the minions that Alastor summons are constructs of his own power, or other, less notable souls that he owns. Husk retaining his own form could be because he used to be an Overlord himself. Niffty…unsure if Alastor actually owns her soul, but it’s a good bet, and Alastor seems to like her most anyway. Valentino has moth demons that look like him manning his doors when Vox comes to see him, but it could be a uniform; Vox and Velvette both have people working for them (that they may or may not own, but it’s another good bet that they do) that have distinct looks. Which means that if Alastor’s little minions aren’t souls he owns in their own uniform, but manifestations of his own power that do his bidding, then that’s another difference that sets Alastor apart from other Overlords that’s worth exploring.

Also I keep forgetting about his shadow and I’m very curious to know if it has unique properties other than letting him teleport around. Alastor changing his form so often also seems something unique to him. The mouth-droolies that are probably blood (unless it’s Valentino and then it’s his venom) seems to just be a quirk of Viv’s art style, since Vox, Alastor, Valentino, and Lucifer all do it when they need to seem more deranged, but Alastor changing his entire look to be bigger and scarier is something we see Stolas and the Sins do in Helluva Boss, not Overlords in Hazbin Hotel. The Goetia family and the Sins are on a different level than Overlords in Hell’s power structure, but Alastor himself seems to be something else on top of that. Perhaps he’s becoming something closer to Adam and Lilith, though again, more on what I think is up with them on a later episode.

The funny thing about the Vees is that alone, any one of them wouldn’t be too much of a threat, but together, they are absolutely dangerous, and that’s fascinating. It’s the dark side version of working together making people stronger and better. But although Vox’s obsession with Alastor isn’t shared by the other Vees, they don’t fight him when he insists they have to keep an eye on the situation with him and Charlie. I don’t believe for a second that any sinner in Hell cares about the authority of the royal family outside of how the royal family can destroy them power-wise, but it’s interesting to me how even when they don’t care about Charlie as an authority figure, they do care when she spends time with other potentially powerful figures. This is a hint of Charlie as a dormant untapped power source. Most of Hell doesn’t care about who she is or what she does, brushing her off as a sort of ornamental figure. Except for Alastor. Who very correctly has singled her out as a future powerhouse, though what he intends to direct that powerhouse towards (and if it was even his idea in the first place) remains to be seen.

Moment of silence for Valentino bedazzling a gun with glue and rhinestones during a meeting with his business partners, that is good background comedy.

Alastor has a different job title every time he’s referred to in his capacity to the hotel and I find that greatly amusing. Also telling as to the quality of management at first. Because, come on, the whole premise of the hotel is based on a wild hair that Charlie has, and the sequence with Sir Pentious pretending to fit into the hotel model is a blinding spotlight into the flaws of Charlie’s thinking. The behaviors that she’s attempting to get Pentious and by extension Angel Dust to model are a very rudimentary and I’d go so far as to say childish understanding of what sin versus virtue is. But as is revealed later—it’s all they have to go on. They can see the state of Hell and make assumptions about what landed them there, but Adam himself is a glaring contradiction to the assumptions, top to bottom. It makes the whole Sir Pentious farce seem even more shallow, which is a brilliant narrative choice to laying the groundwork for Angel’s character arc, because the shallowness of it all is what hurts him.

And, most importantly: while Charlie dismisses Angel in this episode to focus on her shiny new toy, it’s Angel that she relies on to prove her point to Heaven later, a sharp counterpoint of real change to the very obvious fake change in Sir Pentious in this particular episode. (Before. Y’know. The real change Sir Pentious undergoes at the end of the episode. And then again at the end of the season. But Sir Pentious, while in Hell and obviously with his own issues, also isn’t quite as complex or deep a person as Angel Dust is. Perhaps he didn’t have as far to go to make a real change in himself. Until the nature of the rules for who goes where when they die becomes less arbitrary, we can only make educated guesses.)

But back to Charlie and how she’s the absolute perfect princess for the Pride ring: she is sparkly and sweet and naïve, but she is so sure that she’s right that she pulls the entire cast into this madcap adventure with her to try and redeem sinners without actually knowing what it means. She is so sure she’s right that she, a Hellborn demon, is determined to talk to Heaven—HEAVEN, and not just Heaven, but THE ANGELS WHO RUN HEAVEN AND AS FAR AS SHE KNOWS ACTIVELY CELEBRATE HER PEOPLE’S EXTERMINATION—and just knows she can get them on her side if she pitches it well enough.

If Charlie wasn’t so earnest, and self-aware by the end of the season as well, it would make her unlikeable, smug instead of sincere. But, like the magical casting of Rhys Darby as Stede Bonnet that makes him an earnest and likeable character instead of a self-obsessed smug asshole, it’s that core of absolute genuine care in her that saves her from being a terror. She’s learning, and she is going through her own coming of age and understanding the world around her. Not to mention that she has an immense amount of pressure on her that her parents seem to have succeeded in shielding her from until she starts actively pushing at the boundaries of her world and taking on more and more of that weight. Charlie doesn’t have to put herself out there for sinners. Lucifer tells her that. Adam tells her that. Lilith never did, as far as we can tell, but her absence is pretty telling on that front. She could let the status quo continue and live in her own happy little dream world with nothing to trouble or vex her.

But that isn’t Charlie Morningstar. She’s a dreamer with fierce independence. And while her Hazbin Hotel redemption plan is RIFE with hubris, it’s also indicative of her strength of character, and it’s admirable to watch.

In HB, the Sins that we’ve seen so far have had elements of understanding their power—I saw one post describe it as embodying their opposite Virtue as well as their Sin. Beelzebub is the Sin of Gluttony, but she is cautious about others around her indulging too much to the point of harm (Temperance). Asmodeus is the Sin of Lust, but he rejects lust by force and accepts real love in his life that’s more than just sexual chemistry (Chastity). Lucifer is most certainly the Sin of Pride, but the argument could be made of his humbling, not just at Heaven’s hands, but by breaking down his own misconceptions and worldview keeping him and Charlie from connecting and listening to her and choosing to believe in her (Humility). Charlie is heir to Pride, at the very least; she’s well on her way to accepting the slice of humble pie that comes with it.

The ring model of Hell in the background of the entire “It Starts With Sorry” sequence really makes me question if HH Hell isn’t in the same universe as HB Hell, because it’s not just a one-and-done cameo piece; it shows up several times, a fixture of the background that gets at least two different angles. So here’s another theory I’ve been cooking up: HH Hell has two moon-like objects, one that looks obviously Heavenly, one that looks obviously Hellish. I’m wondering if the Hellish moon is either Lucifer’s palace (prison), or the rest of Hell. Admittedly, that theory doesn’t work with HB, what with Blitzo setting up his business specifically to cater to sinners and thus the Pride ring is clearly connected to the rest of Hell and not its own floating sky-entity, but then again, the ring model of Hell isn’t exactly literal, from what I read in the wiki; if they can road trip to Sloth, maybe they can take a magic elevator to Pride because it’s a moon and not a ring. Who knows. I certainly don’t. And it’s not like an atlas of Hell is ever going to be released, despite how very much I would love one.

Not as much to discuss re: my overarching theories about the nature of Hell and its power structures in this one, but the next episode most certainly does, so I will keep this consistent and in its own post.

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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quillyfied · 12 days

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E1

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse and probably get a lot wrong because I am still a brand-new fan and don’t have a lot of past context outside of the shows themselves! Tbh I'm not sure that I'm too interested in getting bogged down in a lot of information that isn't useful to analyzing the shows as they are now, but a few of you lovelies said you'd like to hear my thoughts, so let's get started! (I attempted to have this in a bulleted list but I think Tumblr counts a bulleted list as a single text block and...wow they do not like it when you exceed that text block character limit and buddies I EXCEEDED IT.)

Okay, starting with Hazbin Hotel s1e1:

The first thing that immediately strikes me is Charlie’s story: it’s an immediate tip-off that the background information we’re receiving is not the entire story, but a watered-down child’s story version putting Charlie right at the center (no moral judgement, she’s the main character and allowed to be the main character about it). There are many hints later on from Lucifer and Sera that Charlie (and Emily, but I’ll talk more about her when I get to her episode) doesn’t know the whole story, but right from the get-go we the audience should know that this isn’t all the information. It’s all the RELEVANT information, told from a certain point of view, and it’s valuable worldbuilding and background-setting, but it isn’t all the lore. Why would it be? We can’t handle the lore. This is the first two minutes at most.

Forty-seven seconds in, we’re set up with a simple and familiar dichotomy: there is a Heaven, and it worships Good and shuns Evil. Cool. Familiar narrative territory, what with pervasive cultural Christianity. My first theory that I’d bet real money on: that’s Roo, the dark shadowy figure representing evil. She’s never mentioned by name in Hazbin Hotel (though she has been in Helluva Boss, once during the first episode in a blink-and-you-miss-it exchange where Martha is waxing eloquent about sacrificing IMP to Satan and hoping her offering will continue to grow the Root of Evil).

I came across her name in passing on a tumblr post, and when I looked her up, I was delighted to learn that we know next to nothing about her whatsoever. Since Hazbin Hotel is the show with the large cosmic stakes, she’s probably going to pop up in HH first, if she ever does in HB. And assuming HH and HB are still allowed to be part of the same universe, what with copyright law being what it is and my complete lack of knowledge about what happens when an indie studio makes one show on their own and partners with a major streaming service for the other.

The appearance of the two figures representing Good and Evil, whoever they are (if anyone), is also super important for setting up the basic dichotomy to be challenged: if there is a Root of Evil, there must be a powerful force of Good to oppose it. And it clearly isn’t the angels. They’re introduced as subservient to it, but not embodying it. It’s fascinating too that God is never mentioned in either show except as an expletive; if God is Good, then maybe the figure representing Good is also God, but that’s more an errant thought, since in familiar Christian mythology, Satan is supposed to be the ultimate evil, and that is clearly not his position in the Hellaverse. Same goes for Lucifer.

These embodied higher concepts might even be eldritch in the sense that they are too big and unknowable for the rest of the cast, though if this is Roo we’re seeing, she has some very interesting visual similarities to Eve.

(Just want to point out too that Good has its eyes closed, while Evil has its eyes open; now it just makes me wonder if Good is something more fragile and childlike, something to be protected, and I think a later episode will support this hypothesis, but more when I get there.)

Also Hell being Lucifer’s attempt at creating his own universe and it’s a CIRCUS. IT IS A CIRCUS. HE MADE A CIRCUS. A *CIRCUS*. The recurring circus motifs in the Hellaverse are fascinating, but I am wondering if there’s a deeper metaphor in there or if Viv just really likes the aesthetics.

Also I just realized that it’s an instrumental version of “More Than Anything” that’s playing during Lucifer and Lilith finding each other and then giving Eve the apple and I want to curl up in a ball.

Okay, here: Evil finding its way into Earth uses a very specific sort of motif. Almost…tree-like. Or perhaps even…root-like??? And I am so desperate to know the mechanics of this: how was Roo kept out from the angels’ pet project universe? If God isn’t here or at least isn’t important, who put the Tree of Knowledge there? Evil finding a door in through Knowledge—and thus Free Will—is one thing, but Evil’s introduction to Heaven’s perfect universe and THAT being what creates Hell feels…incomplete. We don’t have all the information, for a variety of very frustrating Watsonian and Doylist reasons that infuriate me.

We don’t know where the Sins came from, because Hell as it exists in HH and as it exists in HB are two very different Hells, despite being possibly the same. HH Hell is finite, cramped, and small, meant more to be as one side of a two-sided cosmic conflict. HB Hell is vast, colorful, and complex, a stage on which to play out character arcs and explore the environment. HH Hell isn’t the Pride Ring; it’s just Hell. There’s no need to mention any mechanic about sinners being unable to leave Pride, because it’s such basic knowledge that even acknowledging the rest of Hell doesn’t make sense, since sinners can’t visit it anyway. It’s as out of reach to them as Earth and Heaven.

But the seven-ring structure of Hell still shows up in the background of Hazbin Hotel, although whether that’s an easter egg for devoted Hellaverse fans or a real element of the world remains to be seen. And the Doylist reason for this outside of copyright whosiwhatsit is very simple: Charlie’s categorically insane plan to redeem sinners makes less sense when the option to figure out how to let sinners expand into the rest of a sprawling Hell is just as impossible but probably more sensible, since it doesn’t require provoking a proven genocidal tormentor (Heaven).

(Okay not to say that the other denizens of Hell would be any more welcoming and less genocidal but there’s a possibility of maybe working it out easier…though the first beings on the chopping block to make room if sinners start flooding other rings are imps and hellhounds, who are already on the bottom rungs of Hellish society and truly cannot survive outside of Hell or have a shot at redemption to relocate to Heaven, since they presumably don’t have souls that can undergo such a change. Though. Y’know. Soul as a mechanic versus soul as a metaphor are two very different things.)

(Also, y’know how Lucifer is called the King of Hell in HH but because of term differences across the Hellaverse shows, we really have no idea if he’s the King of All of Hell or just the King of Pride? Though either way, it’s my fervent belief that Lucifer himself can’t leave Pride either. Being forced to watch the sinners destroy themselves is his eternal punishment. He’s powerful, but I’m not sure it’s just crippling depression keeping him locked in his ducky room.)

Anyway it’s been thirty minutes of typing and I’m still less than two minutes into the first episode. Let’s crack on.

Okay, here: Lucifer has clearly been a broken person since the start of Hell and its apparent purpose. Hell was called the pit that he and Lilith created—but did they create it, or did their actions allow it to manifest? There’s a difference. But the cracks in their partnership are already starting to show from Lucifer’s despondency and Lilith stepping up and thriving in this new environment. And again, will talk more about this later, but the nature of Lilith and Adam’s afterlives are incredibly unique for what we know about the mechanics of Heaven and Hell in HH, and I for one am incredibly desperate to get more details on them, if we ever will.

Another detail we don’t know: when the Exterminations began to happen. Again, Charlie is our only source of information on any of this background knowledge; in a later episode, she says they just had a meeting and Lucifer agreed to them.

Later in this first episode, Lute makes sure Charlie knows that the Hellborn are spared from Exterminations only by Lucifer’s will (the implication being that if the Exorcists had their way, they’d be killing everything in sight, but that bit of clemency is significant; was Charlie born by the time the Exterminations began? Were Lucifer and Lilith trying for kids? Does Lilith count as Hellborn? Because thanks to Helluva Boss, we know that there are both imp and Ars Goetia presences in Pride, but they’re native species which Lucifer would likely have no reason to care about, if he’s even truly aware of them outside of his own bubble of self-loathing and simultaneous dislike of sinners).

Lilith is supposedly this influential and powerful Queen of Hell whose songs and powers are single-handedly making Hell a force to be reckoned with; where was she during these talks? If she’s so involved with Hell, why does no one mention her? Charlie is the only one who ever talks about her, and then only with Vaggie. Alastor was gone for seven years and his return caused ripples (because he purposely causes them, not because his presence is so powerful on its own); how long has Lilith been pulling away from Hell for people to know Charlie by name and refer to her as Lucifer’s daughter, but never as Lilith’s (except by Adam)?

If Lilith and Lucifer split up because Lucifer gave up and was unable to care about anything outside of his family, why is it still Lucifer who’s mentioned attending meetings with Heaven, or throwing the responsibility to Charlie? Where the unholy hell is Lilith and the evidence of her influence outside of some background fliers of her concerts and Charlie’s own memories, is what I’m saying.

What I’m also saying: Heaven’s fear of a Hellish uprising may not have been as unfounded as Charlie might think, because she sweeps over that little detail constantly and in a later episode it becomes a significant talking point for a certain character and I’ll get more into it later. But the bones of it now: YEAH Lilith was absolutely planning an uprising against Heaven and that’s why she wasn’t allowed to the Extermination meetings. Lucifer allowing them was him cleaning up her mess (in a kinda cowardly way, but he protects his own and then gets out of dodge. He doesn’t care about sinners or Hell. He cares about Charlie and Lilith. If they’re safe, he’s done his job. And to be fair, Heaven has shown itself more than ready and willing to destroy Hell entirely, though why they haven’t yet may be just as obvious as why Hell hasn’t truly risen up to overthrow Heaven: the toll on both sides would be too great. Carmilla Carmine being a fallen angel isn’t a theory I subscribe to but I do have to admit, her insight into the nature of violence and war and the devastation it wreaks does make me lean towards it a little).

I do note the sadness that this story version of Sera shows at allowing the Exterminations; it holds up with what we see of her later, her stated hesitance over the idea and how she clearly doesn’t like it but still sees it as necessary and therefore won’t be swayed into stopping it. What an interesting and complex character.

Other reasons Lilith wasn’t mentioned at the Extermination meeting and thus why I have decided she maybe wasn’t there: I can’t imagine her not going absolutely feral at Adam leading the Exterminations and thus trying to claw his eyes and balls out. There is textual evidence to disprove this, at least somewhat. But this here is a headcanon and I’ll stick to it because it makes me giggle.

So very interesting to study the colors of this little story, too. Lilith as Queen is fully red. Lucifer is most often shown in paler colors (the exception being when he and Lilith are cast down to Hell, though interestingly, he’s dripping as they fall, and Lilith isn’t). When Charlie finally shows up in the story, she is shown a lot like Evil and Eve, a dark silhouette with something bright and red illuminating her—but then turns bright white.

Even without his influence much in her upbringing, somehow or another, Charlie is Lucifer’s daughter, more like him than like Lilith. (We know Charlie sugarcoats like crazy and is an optimist to the point of destruction. Charlie loves her mother. Charlie knows her mother cared about Hell, fights for sinners to not be slaughtered yearly because she was taught by her mother that Hell was worth caring about. And yet. Look where Lilith is this entire time. For seven years. Food for thought.)

I really wish it was easier to tell Hellborn from sinners before they bleed. I had some theories about sinners not having horns, or at least not commonly having horns, but. Y’know. Background characters constantly making my life difficult.

Okay another thing that I want clarified in-text so badly: do sinners regenerate? There’s evidence to support it, but it’s never said in the show whether or not angelic steel is the ONLY thing that can kill sinners for good, just that it does. I’m aware of fanon regarding people who die in Hell being Voided (though according to the wiki, Viv has said that Hellborn who die become part of the fabric of Hell, which is why it looks weirdly organic, so the existence of a Void or even as Angel says in the pilot a double-Hell (turbo-hell lolol I only want it to exist for the memes) seems…unlikely), but what with Sir Pentious being redeemed…idk that I buy that sinners who double-die just cease to exist. It feels dissatisfying, or like there’s a piece missing somewhere.

Additional question: what happens to angels who die in Hell?? Do they become part of the scenery like Hellborn, do they cease to exist like sinners might, do they regenerate up in Heaven? WHAT HAPPENS?

It only took me an hour and a half to get to just watch the episode as normal after the opening. This is fine.

I like the idea of Heaven being structured similarly to Hell; Adam referring to a “Virtue” chick and the existence of C.H.E.R.U.B. and Cherub Towne in HB lends itself more to this duality of Heaven and Hell in a way that tingles my symmetry brain. Though. As HH states quite clearly. That duality is a lie. Nothing is ever that neat and tidy.

I cannot BELIEVE Angel called Vaggie by her full name and I neither really caught it nor truly believed it the first time around.

Ooh here we go, laying the groundwork for my many Alastor and Overlord mechanic theories. In the pilot, which might no longer be canon but is still an important piece of background, Alastor is called a deal-maker. It’s shown more in the show that he isn’t the only one who does that—in fact, it seems to become an Overlord, you have to be in possession of many soul contracts, enough that a group of them in a room together owns millions—but Alastor is pretty much the only one shown MAKING deals. Deals are discussed often and seem like a pretty reliable mechanic for “make a thing happen or make it more complicated,” but the only deals we ever see being made are done by Alastor. From my understanding, Overlords don’t own just souls, but territory; Alastor seems to be an exception.

It seems to me that it would be in-character for him to go for quality over quantity, and for his territory to be radio itself—and thus the hearing range of anybody within the sound of his voice. He displays talents that seem unique to him, not to Overlords in general, and I have some theories, but as the pieces come, I’ll put them together. The first piece is this: Alastor likes making deals. He makes deals for seemingly inconsequential things, favors for favors (though HB fans reading that in Stolas’ voice can giggle with me over imagining Alastor’s reaction to it). It's almost like he doesn’t know how to interact with people if it isn’t an exchange or a power move of some kind. That makes for a fascinating character to watch in action, because regardless of if cannibal serial killer is still part of his fabric now, it does make his gray morality compelling as he seems to grow fond of the group in some ways.

His villain heel-turn is inevitable, but I’m excited for it rather than dreading it.

Does Vaggie even have a soul to leverage? Her knowing Spanish seems to indicate she was human at one point, but it’s unclear if the Exorcists are Heavenborn with a rigid uniform (because Lute and Vaggie have a lot of physical similarities outside of the literal uniform) or. Like. Recruited from existing winner populations. With an obvious bias because Adam is a pig but you can’t argue with the results of a badass female army.

Okay, Lute’s wording is so interesting though—Daddy gave you and your Hellborn kind a pardon from an Exorcist’s blade. A pardon? A PARDON? Lucifer GAVE Hellborn demons a PARDON?? Because I find it hard to believe that that wouldn’t be something Lucifer would have to argue for if Heaven truly found Hell a threat. And it makes me wonder what he traded in exchange for that protection. But that wording. As if Lucifer granted the exception on a whim like a merciful lord. As if the Extermination was his idea and he could just make exceptions for people like it was his right…

OH SHIT WAS THE EXTERMINATION HIS IDEA??

Could it be possible that Lucifer and Lilith’s partnership fell apart because Lucifer betrayed Hell to Heaven?

Listen that seems far-fetched but I’m losing my mind a little bit right now because I can SEE IT. I can see it being a last-ditch effort to try and protect his family from the perceived threat of the sinners and the looming threat of Heaven, only for it to blow up in his face and it to not just end his marriage but crush Lilith’s spirit along with it.

Though if the Exterminations have only been going on for a few decades…if we take past backstory as canon for a moment and Charlie is around 200 years old, and her parents split when she was young (maybe pre-teen? I can’t remember if some of the family portraits I’ve seen online were in the background of the show and I just missed them or if they’re fanart)…I dunno, the timeline feels wonky to me. I WISH we knew how long the Exterminations have been going on, it is MADDENING that we don’t know that.

Also interesting to know that Adam has basically been functioning with little to no supervision. I wonder if Sera even knows an Exorcist died, or that they can be killed, before the attack on the Hotel?

The Exterminations can’t have been happening for so long that no other demon ever killed an angel. Carmilla Carmine seems like she’s been running her own show for a while, and while angelic steel isn’t common (and she’s right, demons who can afford it wouldn’t exactly be itching to try it out against Exorcists when they could be well-hidden and out of harm’s way instead), but demons are also audacious little upstarts (see Alastor). Given a long enough time frame, SOMEONE would have had to try it out. The Exterminations happening for just a few decades seems more and more likely the longer I think on it, but until we get a definitive timeline…ugh. Gonna have to wait.

And that was just episode 1! Oh no!! On to episode 2, which is probably going to get into more Alastor theories but WAY more about the mechanics of Overlords and also Charlie as the perfect picture of the Princess of Pride, bc hoo boy girlie you are working off of some ASSUMPTIONS.

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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