reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

reblog to kick him down the stairs

thw fact fhat this isnt peak to you all is a testament that everyone sucks actually

camp camp is about david thinking he is being utmost open and candid about his emotions while he is actually very unforthcoming in that regard and has no understanding of his own want to heal as a result of that emotional distantance put against the fatalist mindset of max who prides himself on his emotional unavailability that is factually not true and his most painfully human yearn to heal that he cannot allow himself due to that exact self perceived inaccessibility. and how those victim ideologies clashing together and mix and matching in the process of them both contemplating their own and each others individual enormity of trauma has fundamentally changed them both as people. literally thats it for me. whatever

things you dont need to get into for camp camp:

- camp camp

things you need to get into for camp camp:

- psychoanalysis

- neon genesis evangelion

- the metamorphosis

- 19th century russian literature

I once saw someone say that after Parents Day (the episode, not you), they never really touched on Max’s familial situation again. And while I agree that episodes like With Friends Like These could have paid a little lip service to it (why David just sent Max back home to what he knew were neglectful parents is beyond me, maybe he didn’t think there was anything he could do about it?), it feels to me like one of those things where once you know about it, you start seeing the character in a whole new light. Like you see what Max does in older and newer episodes and you rationalize it as “Oh, I see, he acts that way because his parents neglect him. Stuff like him not knowing how to swim or having a teddy bear when he’s theoretically too old for one.

i agree with you on many of your points and disagree heavily on the use of them you make later on. to start off max is an incredibly dear character to me, like painfully so. if i had the chance to i would love to dissect his head like one of a frog in a lab and see what makes his brain tick in ways it does, and of course one of the reasons is the abstract emotional state of mind any victim like him would have. one that sometimes gets more kafkaesque the longer i stare at him. so please bear in mind that i love the subtext his character possesses, i just can’t always rely on it to explain anything.

if you know me you know i like to complain about this shows writing, not out of hate for it but rather out of love for the material and what it started off as and has ability to be still (stuff like heavier writing that holds narrative weight, david being an asshole, the whole harrison thing that is lost to time now etc etc). whenever i watch this show with someone i usually opt to rewatch several earlier episodes after we finish parents day. it gets praised a lot but i don’t often see people mention how well it recontextualizes a lot of stuff previously shown to us, not only for max but other cast members too. a lot of the problems that stem from this is the fact that most other characters whose issues were presented to us in this episode are strawman connected to their family by the writers in a way that laters on allows for progress without relying on mention or presence of their parental figures (proper examples of this are preston, ered, nerris, somewhat harrison). max doesn’t get that simply by the virtue of the fact that his issues cannot exist in a vacuum and are inherently connected to his family. max’s parents haunting all of the narrative surrounding him has enough psychoanalytical subtext for it to traumatize several men and leave freud rolling in his grave, so i believe that you cannot in good faith progress his character without mentioning them or their actions or lack thereof towards him once or twice. that’s pretty much why i think that the topic of his abuse has not been brought up in a meaningful way since parents day. from where i stand i view abuse as one of the focus themes in this show, so poor treatment of it is very obvious to pin point to me as it usually drags most characters down with it the less it is respected in a way it should be.

like i said, the way the show recontextualizes max’s behavior leaves way for interpretation of the viewer on the way why he is the way he is, it’s easy for us to understand why he can’t swim or why he can’t fathom the idea of moving on and letting go on several occasions. the thing is in a perfect world we don’t have to do all of this. it can be attributed to good writing for making the audience be able to perceive any part of the characters psyche without the authors help, but in reality it’s lazy to expect everyone to treat the characters from a watsonian perspective and view their every move as a meta reference towards their trauma when not everyone cares enough to do so. the writer referencing child abuse and not adding onto it aside from the mention of its existence is exploitative of the viewers personal care for the character, it’s bad writing. you obviously can interpret what max does as a result of neglect (and you should!) with the power of subtext, implications and critical thinking, but what you also should think about is what does it tell you about his character aside from the fact that he is neglected. do we ever find out something new about his home situation or do scenes like these give us any discussion inside the show about the fact that he is still actively a victim of neglect? (the answer is most always gonna be no, maybe just always)

tldr; stuff like child abuse is heavy, writing it is hard and treating it the way rooster teeth does is not only poor writing but also disrespectful to the very real human trauma they are inserting into their show on more than one occasion

i would also love to discuss the david stuff you brought up and why him acting towards max and others in a way that he does in recent seasons is a long standing issue rather than a new problem but thats genuinely a conversation for another day as this post is already long enough as it is. thank you for the ask :3c

i think david was a lot more like max as a kid but he softened the story he told to max nikki and neil in the car

thank you for the ask anon !! for your reference reading this made me grimace in a way that a wounded dog would upon seeing a piece of meat !! but seriously this is a topic that is very important to my personal and possibly general understanding of these two characters, so im just gonna say that i agree with you and such interpretation of david’s character is very easy to call accurate to canon as both david and max are written with obvious intent to be seen as parallels of one another, more so than they are written to be character foils.

max and david are set to be read as opposites in the show from the very start and i think this is also the easiest and safest way to perceive both of their characters if this shows meta doesn’t interest you. their standpoints and life views are seemingly removed as far away from each other as humanly possible and we are reminded of it more than necessary in the earlier content. the show tries really hard to make it look like david is an inherently good person put against max’s necessary evil, so it seems only right to view them this way. and yet the first two seasons of the show do a spectacular job at showing us that david is not at all as good of a person as he tries to be (not tries to appear, but tries to be, important bc first one is max’s perspective on david’s person while the second one is a description actually accurate to him). early seasons david is undeniably selfish and just as much of an asshole as max is, keep in mind that this is not my personal view on his character but a fact in canon that we are reminded of time and time again and is also something that gets lampshaded by the writers during the parents day episode. he pushes his positive perspective of the way things should be just as hard as max pushes his negative one, if not more, he behaves in his own personal interests instead of interests of others or the interests of camp constantly and guess who is the only other character in the show who does this just as often (the answer is max). the only reason why it’s not always easy to pin point this stuff is because they are constantly posed in situations that require them to act dissimilarly enough for it to create a contrast which isn’t always easy to pick up on as something intentionally vague and done for specific narrative purpose. this similarity extends onto the fact that they are both victims of abuse and the show is well aware of it and uses it to its own advantage. both max and david deal with their trauma in drastically different ways as seen by the way they talk about the world surrounding them, but the core of it is the same and that’s the important part of it.

so i believe it’s very safe to say that even if david didn’t say anything that would allude to him changing the story about his younger self to be nicer than it actually was, it sure was implied by the writers in the subtext of that episode, maybe in the subtext of the show in its entirety. early camp camp content surrounding these two based itself very heavily on david’s belief that his similarity to max is what will push this kid to become just like him in the future, so it really is not out of the left field to assume david was a lot more like max when he was younger. most probably because in many ways he still is just like him.

tldr; david sees himself in max in more ways than one and the show’s writing feels the same way because they intentionally wrote them to be as similar as possible. the writers rely heavily on these two being narrative parallels to make their characters work in the way they do so your headcanon is as real as it gets anon ^^

i think david was a lot more like max as a kid but he softened the story he told to max nikki and neil in the car

thank you for the ask anon !! for your reference reading this made me grimace in a way that a wounded dog would upon seeing a piece of meat !! but seriously this is a topic that is very important to my personal and possibly general understanding of these two characters, so im just gonna say that i agree with you and such interpretation of david’s character is very easy to call accurate to canon as both david and max are written with obvious intent to be seen as parallels of one another, more so than they are written to be character foils.

max and david are set to be read as opposites in the show from the very start and i think this is also the easiest and safest way to perceive both of their characters if this shows meta doesn’t interest you. their standpoints and life views are seemingly removed as far away from each other as humanly possible and we are reminded of it more than necessary in the earlier content. the show tries really hard to make it look like david is an inherently good person put against max’s necessary evil, so it seems only right to view them this way. and yet the first two seasons of the show do a spectacular job at showing us that david is not at all as good of a person as he tries to be (not tries to appear, but tries to be, important bc first one is max’s perspective on david’s person while the second one is a description actually accurate to him). early seasons david is undeniably selfish and just as much of an asshole as max is, keep in mind that this is not my personal view on his character but a fact in canon that we are reminded of time and time again and is also something that gets lampshaded by the writers during the parents day episode. he pushes his positive perspective of the way things should be just as hard as max pushes his negative one, if not more, he behaves in his own personal interests instead of interests of others or the interests of camp constantly and guess who is the only other character in the show who does this just as often (the answer is max). the only reason why it’s not always easy to pin point this stuff is because they are constantly posed in situations that require them to act dissimilarly enough for it to create a contrast which isn’t always easy to pick up on as something intentionally vague and done for specific narrative purpose. this similarity extends onto the fact that they are both victims of abuse and the show is well aware of it and uses it to its own advantage. both max and david deal with their trauma in drastically different ways as seen by the way they talk about the world surrounding them, but the core of it is the same and that’s the important part of it.

so i believe it’s very safe to say that even if david didn’t say anything that would allude to him changing the story about his younger self to be nicer than it actually was, it sure was implied by the writers in the subtext of that episode, maybe in the subtext of the show in its entirety. early camp camp content surrounding these two based itself very heavily on david’s belief that his similarity to max is what will push this kid to become just like him in the future, so it really is not out of the left field to assume david was a lot more like max when he was younger. most probably because in many ways he still is just like him.

tldr; david sees himself in max in more ways than one and the show’s writing feels the same way because they intentionally wrote them to be as similar as possible. the writers rely heavily on these two being narrative parallels to make their characters work in the way they do so your headcanon is as real as it gets anon ^^

i think david was a lot more like max as a kid but he softened the story he told to max nikki and neil in the car

thank you for the ask anon !! for your reference reading this made me grimace in a way that a wounded dog would upon seeing a piece of meat !! but seriously this is a topic that is very important to my personal and possibly general understanding of these two characters, so im just gonna say that i agree with you and such interpretation of david’s character is very easy to call accurate to canon as both david and max are written with obvious intent to be seen as parallels of one another, more so than they are written to be character foils.

max and david are set to be read as opposites in the show from the very start and i think this is also the easiest and safest way to perceive both of their characters if this shows meta doesn’t interest you. their standpoints and life views are seemingly removed as far away from each other as humanly possible and we are reminded of it more than necessary in the earlier content. the show tries really hard to make it look like david is an inherently good person put against max’s necessary evil, so it seems only right to view them this way. and yet the first two seasons of the show do a spectacular job at showing us that david is not at all as good of a person as he tries to be (not tries to appear, but tries to be, important bc first one is max’s perspective on david’s person while the second one is a description actually accurate to him). early seasons david is undeniably selfish and just as much of an asshole as max is, keep in mind that this is not my personal view on his character but a fact in canon that we are reminded of time and time again and is also something that gets lampshaded by the writers during the parents day episode. he pushes his positive perspective of the way things should be just as hard as max pushes his negative one, if not more, he behaves in his own personal interests instead of interests of others or the interests of camp constantly and guess who is the only other character in the show who does this just as often (the answer is max). the only reason why it’s not always easy to pin point this stuff is because they are constantly posed in situations that require them to act dissimilarly enough for it to create a contrast which isn’t always easy to pick up on as something intentionally vague and done for specific narrative purpose. this similarity extends onto the fact that they are both victims of abuse and the show is well aware of it and uses it to its own advantage. both max and david deal with their trauma in drastically different ways as seen by the way they talk about the world surrounding them, but the core of it is the same and that’s the important part of it.

so i believe it’s very safe to say that even if david didn’t say anything that would allude to him changing the story about his younger self to be nicer than it actually was, it sure was implied by the writers in the subtext of that episode, maybe in the subtext of the show in its entirety. early camp camp content surrounding these two based itself very heavily on david’s belief that his similarity to max is what will push this kid to become just like him in the future, so it really is not out of the left field to assume david was a lot more like max when he was younger. most probably because in many ways he still is just like him.

tldr; david sees himself in max in more ways than one and the show’s writing feels the same way because they intentionally wrote them to be as similar as possible. the writers rely heavily on these two being narrative parallels to make their characters work in the way they do so your headcanon is as real as it gets anon ^^

Hiii! Since you asked about headcanons/analysis stuff:

There's a common interpretation on the fandom about Max's treatment of David in the early episodes coming, at least partially, from trust issues regarding adults/authority figures. And I've seen push back against it, too. People who say it's just because David is annoyingly positive. Nothing else.

And sure, I can see that. But Nikki also acts in a cheerful manner and mostly enjoys camp, and Max doesn't treat her with the level of rudeness he treated David in season one. This could be due to her being his little partner in crime, but idk. I always interpreted it as him thinking that David is some fake nice adult who will just let him down if he allows it.

And, while I was thinking about this, I realized how this interpretation of Max's behaviour towards David adds another heartbreaking layer to Parents day.

Max's perception of David started changing after Order of the sparrow, specifically after the "Somebody fucking has to" moment. For just a moment, the annoying, overly positive persona drops, and Max is able to see a nuanced human being. And it's clear that he starts understanding David a little more, because in Cult camp (literally the next episode), he allows himself to be brainwashed and trusts that David will save the camp (btw, we as a fandom don’t talk about this aspect of this episode enough).

So yeah, his perception of David changes for the better.

But then, parents day happens.

And David spends most of the episode being an absolute jerk, even if he doesn't realize it.

He pushes SO HARD to try and make the day perfect, basically ignores Max when he states that his parents aren't coming, gets way too serious about playing the role of Max's dad for the day, forces Max into the activities and then, at the end of a day that was already shitty for Max, he yells at him.

I think the context of Max's opinion on David finnaly becoming more positive makes this episode so much sadder.

Because it ceases to be just about Max's neglectful parents.

Now it's also about the closest thing he has to a trustworthy adult making him uncomfortable, ignoring his feelings and then yelling at him and telling him that he "has a bad attitude" and "brings everyone else down instead of trying just a little bit to have fun".

(Which are things he must have heard from adults before, if he behaves the way he does at camp in school and other places)

Remember in Friends like these when he said "Life's just one dissapointment after another. I can't belive I let myself forget it"? I think he might have had the same train of thought here: "I can't believe I let myself forget David is an asshole that only cares about impressing Campbell and making this stupid camp look good". Or: "I can't believe I let myself forget that every single adult thinks I'm a bad kid and a lost cause."

And I know it gets fixed quickly, with David apologizing shortly after, but still. I think the idea of Max being dissapointed at David in Parents day, even if it was just for some moments, is so good.

I also think this is the episode that comfirms to Max that David is genuinely a good person trying his best. He spent the entire day having to think about the fact that his parents suck, and then there's David, who is kind, apologizes for upsetting him and takes him to eat pizza and have a little heartfelt talk.

When was the last time his parents apologized to him, or cared about what he wanted/needed, or talked to him so gently?

The contrast between his parents and David is so big, and I think that's what makes Max finnaly go "Yeah, this guy isn't actually that bad."

(Sorry for rambling, omg.)

hi first of all thank u for an ask and such insightful one at it too !! this was an incredibly pleasant read and a lot of the stuff you say i personally find very good analysis of the show and agree with, however i do have some stuff to say abt it soo here we go ^-^ (this will be a long one so sorry about this in advance)

as i said in some previous reply, max is an incredibly peculiar guy when it comes to the way this show treats his trauma and the way he himself behaves as a result of it, and that’s by design! a lot of the thing he says and does in the first two seasons when it comes to david are there for reasons outside of comedy, and are later masterfully recontextualized by parents day later, leaving very little room for interpretation when it comes to how and why he operates. im gonna go out on a limb and say that i don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that most of his actions towards david in the early show stem from the childish born-from-trauma need for attention and also from his need for societal reinforcement of his own ego’s right to exist. when it comes to the first one i see most people agree (bc it’s a basic child psychology fact), but turn their noses in reference to the second one.

contrary to popular belief, max being in need of constant affirmation that he, as a person with little self value, deserves to exist next to other people is something that we see examples of constantly and is not a terrible part of his character that needs to be ignored. max is a neglect victim who from our knowledge is given very little attention by his parents, as a result of it he is a pessimistic asshole kid whose ego suffers from the very thing that made it this way. its in his strained relationship with nikki and neil, its in him arguing with david to put himself in the position of an adult, its him putting himself above others when it’s not needed and its in him putting his own egos safety first when time comes to accept that things are moving forward (two final episodes from both s3 and s4 are good examples of this). its not an inherently positive trait, but it is one okay for him to have by the virtue of being a young abused child with no support system, and denying it will leave him devoid of this characterization. in freudian (ugh) terms, we cannot separate his character’s superego from his id in a way that won’t harm the way he was intentionally written. Id, ego and superego are all influenced by our relationship with our parents, the amount of nurturing of a child's emotional and psychological needs parents does will result in the child’s psychological state forming a certain way, max as a character who is heavily reliant of his lackluster relationship with his parents is not devoid of this and it affects his relationship with david too. and the reason i’m saying all of this is exactly due to this.

david, when put in most simple terms, is a character who’s an adult figure present and mature enough in max’s current social position that it allows him to treat max as a child, something max is not used to. not used to to such an extent that it puts a strain on this kid’s ego in the process. david feeds this kids need for any form of attention, positive or not, just as much as he clips away at max’s need to be seen as socially important and in a position of an adult. it’s arguable if both of these are good or not but the main thing they are in relation to is obvious: max feels that an adult who meets both of his psychological needs in a way that they never were before makes david untrustworthy, thats exactly where you interpretation comes in clutch.

max and his behavior towards david cannot be separated from david being an adult, that is made clear with the way he treats nikki as an equal just because she is a person his age, despite her sharing a lot of david’s traits. going through the episodes you mentioned, order of the sparrow episode lets max see david perspective for the very first time. max is allowed to peek into the reason why david acts the way he does, however it alone doesn’t make him see david in a good light, if anything it makes him appear genuine in his actions. it also lets max have something for david that he didn’t have before: trust. it ends up being used in cult camp as a confirmation of it being something david can live up to (you are absolutely right, we really don’t talk abt this episode and it’s narrative weight enough). all of this has been adding onto the way max himself perceives david, parents day, however, lets both of them internalize the sentiment of mutual understanding towards each other together. parents day does this by lampshading max and david parallelism, making this whole episode consist of max seeing his parents in david just as much as david sees himself in max through the whole show and putting them in each others shoes by the end of it. the episode ends with david choosing max as a priority, he is still acting selfishly (once again david is an asshole) but choosing to do so towards max because the situation allows him to understand max the way s1 finale let max understand him. and with the final turning point in their dynamic, max understands that both his ego and need for attention can exist without them being reinforced by an adult treating him like he is an adult too. max was chosen as a priority for the very first time and that alone made him feel of more value than the treatment he initially yearned for would have. above all else parents day makes max see david as someone he can look up to as a person in emotional way, not only in a life or death situations, the shot of david from his perspective in the end making sure that we don’t miss it.

most of this is not me disagreeing with you, on the opposite i think a lot of the arguments you make are nice and are mindful interaction with the media. gold star for enjoying meta analysis to both of us i guess ⭐️. my main problem is, however, the fact that using all of this to basically say ‘maxs parents suck so he has a distain for david because of it’ is a heavy oversimplification that you somehow go against in your initial statement too and that i, personally, just don’t enjoy. this alone does not make your interpretation wrong though, if anything just reinforces your general idea into a more concrete argument rather than a collection of bits and pieces of evidence pointing to it. hope all of this made sense

tldr; man idk no summing up this one as to not take away from the overall statement im making with this. read the post 🫶