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mrrow-of-laughter · 2 years

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this is gonna be very fun

> destabilizing the kingdom

are we talking about the coup, or the tragedy?

> kidnapping flayn

y'know reading back my post, my argument was pretty weak, but i still don't see how she benefited from it

> that's why she actively hid the truth about twsitd

are you sure that it's because she just really wants to work with them? imagine you come up to someone and say insane mole people cult is living beneath leicester territory like. how would you even go about that. do you expect her to just walk up to dimitri and claude and just say that.

> her silence on the truth of the tragedy

read the above point. dimitri, the prince, has extremely hard time convincing people that duscur was not behind the assassination. how do you think a foreign princess would look if she started paddling a theory about the fact that this crazy underground cult did it and cornelia and all these important people are part of it with no proof

> her assassination attempts on dimi and claude

see i could make an entire post about this but fyi it's heavily implied she knew the mercenaries were there.

> using her power as princess to protect a serial killer like jeritza

y'know what? i'll give you this one

> having jeritza kidnap ppl like monica a year prior

oh now this is just made up 😭😭 nothing at all implies that she was behind that, she wasn't even at the academy and neither was jeritza iirc

> desecrating the remains of rheas family

you guys always bring this up as if edelgard totally definitely knew the stones they make weapons from are dragon remains. she was stealing what she believed was a weapon that rhea would use against her. this is just blaming her for not knowing what you, the player, know after having played all the routes. and like if this is your first route you don't even know this at the time anyway. you are literally the all-knowing player. she is just a character. lmao

> lying to her people about who was behind the javelins of light

as opposed to what? if you ask me then keeping the knowledge of aforementioned evil underground cult that can bodysnatch people between as few people as possible is in fact a good call

> exclaimed that it was worse than she thought it'd be

that's what everyone thought though? during the entire chapter the villagers were just acting weird, they weren't going on rampages or killing people. they were all in the idea that they'd just head to remire at the end of the month, do a patrol, look around and leave. nobody expected for all that to go down

> jeritza her own pawn regularly harms the populace

the "populace" being criminals and enemy soldiers lol

> repeatedly put her classmates in danger

i can't think of a single time she did that aside from chapter 12. everything after that they fully consented to when they followed her

> straight up threatens to kill them if they resist

she tells them to stand down and that she doesn't wanna fight them but will if they stand her way. what do you want lmao

> she benefited considerably from kronya and solon's experiments on remire and the students

first off kronya wasn't apart of any experiments, second, how did she benefit exactly

> turning people into demonic beasts

right. which the twsitd did, not her, and judging from the fact you didn't dispute my claim about them having power over her then we're in agreement right?

> attacking the alliance which declared itself neutral

it wasn't neutral. in non cf routes, they literally push their way into gronder just to try and fight her and dimitri. in cf, they are actively in conflict with each other and claude is trying to present them as neutral to avoid a civil war. this is outright stated multiple times i don't understand how people miss this. one part is pro-empire (like gloucester) and the other is anti-empire (like riegan and goneril).

> using literal propaganda because civilians were against war

can i please see where she used propaganda?

> the only reason she had support from bergliez and hevring is because she promised them lands and power

i was under the impression she won bergliez over after the battle of the eagle and lion. i do recall they supported her but i don't think they ever stated why. if you have proof tho i will withdraw my point

> so much for being against nobility hm?

this is such a stupid point literally just "society sucks" "but you LIVE in society! i'm very smart" lmao. also, even if you were right, this is war politics. she didn't implement her changes until after the war (see: literally every ending)

so i saw something was happening and didn’t wanna miss out

Buddy no one is excusing genocide. I never said that the Kingdom people were excused of committing genocide on Duscur nor did I say that they are free of the wrongdoing. I said that it happened because Lambert was killed by TWSITD and it wouldn’t have happened otherwise i.e cause and effect. Because prior, Faerghus and Duscur did have good relations. So to make it clear: Kingdom people commiting genocide on Duscur as a result of their King’s murder is bad and wrong AND Genocide was due to an assasination of the King commited by TWSITD for the future Emperor’s benefit. If you don’t think these two arguments/claims can coexist, I don’t know what to tell you.

it was, in fact, done so they could destabilize the kingdom for a future takeover. even if that is the case though, i’d like to know how edelgard is responsible for that. she was like… 13 or 14. i’m not sure where this argument started but i fail to see how it’s relevant to “edelgard bad”.

I saw the post and I think it’s absolute horseshit. Just because Edelgard takes Kronya (which doesn’t matter and feels like a deflection on your end) doesn’t mean she doesn’t take Flayn. As the quote says “Bring me the two women and step away”, which means she was okay with kidnapping Flayn. Also there’s some Flame Emperror soliders, I think it’s very telling that Edelgard had a hand in this.

admittedly, raxis makes a lot of assumptions, but so do you. she has nothing to gain from kidnapping flayn at all. if you have an argument to the contrary, i’d love to hear it. i don’t at all see how kidnapping flayn would benefit her in any way. she could have been trying to kidnap her, and she also could’ve just been trying to get her away. we don’t know. also, they’re literally classmates, i think if she wanted to kidnap her super bad, she would’ve had many other better opportunities.

She was aware of what exactly was happening during Remire if this conversation is anything to go by and considering you don’t go to Remire until the end of the month, she did nothing to descalate the situation and just let it happen so that she could use it to her advantage. And it matters in this case because she knew who was responsible, what exactly was going on and just let it happen.

that’s also a lot of assumptions. she says in every route that she would’ve stopped them had she known. i don’t see why she would lie about that, because she’s in her disguise and again, has nothing to gain from lying. that, and i always thought the conversation with hubert was about something that happened a longer time ago, not something that was like, actively happening, judging from the way he says everything. keep in mind that at this point, the villagers were just behaving “strange”, they weren’t going on killing rampages, so there’s no reason for hubert to talk about it like some grand tragedy they couldn’t prevent in the past.

Whom she defies and bad mouths and still faces no reprecussions with the exception of Cornelia. I know your argument is that she uses the church to defy him well then what’s stopping Thales from doing an investigation on the matter specifically in the forest? He did it for Cornelia in Arianrhod why couldn’t he do it for Kronya and Solon? What is he? An idiot? It’s almost like he doesn’t care or maybe he can’t do anything about it cause he doesn’t have the power. Almost like he’s her puppet.

because kronya and solon are completely disposable pawns. both have already been revealed as members of the agarthans, while thales and cornelia are still in disguise and holding positions of power. tomas was someone with moderate influence i guess, but he and monica were mostly random people and when solon and kronya disguised as them, they essentially were meant to be the men on the inside, your average joes someone would never suspect, while thales and cornelia hold positions of significant power - arundel is the regent of the empire and cornelia is the faerghus court mage. we already know thales and solon only used kronya as a means to an end - who’s to say solon isn’t the same? kronya did her job and killed jeralt, therefore solon was fine with sacrificing her. solon tried to get rid of the vessel of sothis, and he miserably failed. that’s all the relevant info thales needs to say “yeah, whatever”. the reason he got mad over cornelia was because she was an essential part of them maintaining a foothold in the politics of fodlan, which neither solon nor kronya were. he doesn’t care because edelgard killing kronya and solon means absolutely nothing to their grander plans.

i’ll put your last point, if you can call it that, here with this. i’m gonna double down and say that yes, actually, thales giving orders to edelgard and hubert is in fact a solid argument for why he’s their boss and not the other way round. now, i’m not gonna sit here and say he phrases them as requests because it’s some kinda intimidation tactic, that’s way too far into speculation territory for me, but he does, in fact, phrase his orders as requests. it’s literally flat out stated.

but wait, i have more. did you know this line is mistranslated? i can’t really grab a source right now, but you can ask anyone who speaks japanese, or you can literally just throw it into google translate. if i find where i first read it, i’ll link it, but in case you think i’m just making things up, i’m not - it’s enough of a big deal for the wiki to have a note there that corrects the mistranslation. basically it has the exact opposite meaning. my question is, why would edelgard then have to trick the agarthans if she is in fact their boss? from the original quote, if anything, it sounds like cornelia thought they were controlling her. if they were her puppets, there would be no need to trick them, because they’d just obey her.

as for the badmouthing - you think that the agarthans would just be totally okay with their supposed puppetmaster wanting to eradicate them? thales knows about her hatred for them - if nothing else, she outright says as much in the scene, so he has to know by that point. i don’t understand what means she would have of controlling them, because she’s made it completely clear she does not want to see them reach their “salvation”. say this is true and she was ordering them around - what’s stopping them from rebelling against her? they have extremely advanced technology. they literally have massive robots. if she really is their puppetmaster and has all the control over them, then explain why they’re fine with her outright saying she will destroy them, despite that directly clashing with their plans (obviously) and obeying her - and don’t say it’s because they don’t have the military or political power, because they do. so again, i don’t see what leverage she has over them. like you said, they’re not stupid. if they thought their supposed leader was going to go against their plans which have spanned across centuries, they would’ve done something. the only reason why they would entertain her musings about wanting to destroy them and not act at all is if they were sure she wouldn’t pull anything, which is only really possible if they have enough control over her.

that also answers the question you asked - why does thales get mad over cornelia but not solon? not only is cornelia very important to thales and the agarthans, but also because of that importance, this is edelgard showing she actually means business when she kills her. up until then, she didn’t do much aside from the occasional remark and taking out pawns that they had little use for anyway - something thales lets her get away with because it has no impact on the greater picture. but cornelia was extremely important and edelgard knows that - it’s an “oh shit” moment for thales because up to that point he thought edelgard was all bark and no bite. her taking action against one of their major actors disproves that. this is why he retaliates - he wants to show her that if she actually strays from their plans, there will be consequences.

#edelgard critical

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mrrow-of-laughter · 2 years

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so i saw something was happening and didn’t wanna miss out

it was, in fact, done so they could destabilize the kingdom for a future takeover. even if that is the case though, i’d like to know how edelgard is responsible for that. she was like... 13 or 14. i’m not sure where this argument started but i fail to see how it’s relevant to “edelgard bad”.

#edelgard critical #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive

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