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mrm64 · 7 days

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I don't want to be a asshole or anything, but I really struggle with the notion of a 'well-written female character' that people have been shoving down our throats in recent years. Nowadays, for a female character to be considered 'well-written,' she must either primarily fit the 'badass femme fatale' archetype - almost invulnerable with its derivatives - or be a 'masculine woman’.

Oddly enough, these are also the two most popular types of women in fiction right now (lol).

As much as I understand why people want women to have more diverse roles and not be reduced to the 'dumb blonde,' the 'damsel in distress,' or the 'walking love interest' as before, I also think that what we have today does just as much of a disservice to female representation as years ago.

How is what we are doing today inherently different from before?

We have taken female characters out of the tropes that imprisoned them... to fundamentally lock them into other stereotypical tropes that we refuse to let them out of again. These types of characters are often praised as examples of quality female representation, but is that really the case?

I'm not saying they are bad, far from it. But that shouldn't be all there is, that's my complaint about it. And people should also stop passing this off as 'representation' when most of these characters are far too unrealistic to even come close. They are amazing, yes, they are icons to admire because they are truly impressive for the most part, but I challenge anyone to say they are relatable. And that's fine because they're not even supposed to be in the first place.

Fiction should have these types of women because it's fiction, but it should also make room for other types of female characters. The diversity of roles for women is terribly limited, and honestly, I can't really say it's entirely the media's fault.

Is it really too much to ask for diversified female characters?

I would like to see more weak women because it is not necessary to be traditionally strong to be valid. I want to see crazy people, psychopaths, eccentrics, but also sweet, shy, calm characters. I would like to see more women make mistakes without needing a tragic past to justify them.

I would also like to see more realistic women. There are some, yes, but not many, and strangely these types of characters tend to be labeled as poorly written and then completely rewritten by their fandom to fit their idealized version of what a 'good female character' should be.

The most uncomfortably accurate examples I have in mind are Mabel Pines and Sakura Haruno; just look at the hate these two receive to realize that a majority of the public can't handle female characters whose behavior is more human than extraordinary.

The funny thing about this is that people don't even realize that with this kind of behavior, they are perpetuating stereotypes that ironically they are trying to break. Some realize it but prefer to absolve themselves by blaming the media/authors they accuse of poorly writing women, largely in order to justify the disgusting and relatively hypocritical behaviors they have towards certain female characters.

This is particularly evident in Sakura's case; the hatred people have for her is just pathological at this point, further exacerbated by mass effect. Many fans blame Kishimoto for « writing her poorly », which they believe is their main issue with her character. The fact is when you look at the situation as a whole, this excuse doesn't even hold up. The things she is condemned for cannot be solely attributed to her; some of the other most popular characters in this franchise exhibit the same characteristics and sometimes even worse than anything she has shown before, but for some reason, she is the only character in this series who is so vilified because of it. When it comes to others, most fans make excuses for them, except you can't judge a character for something they did while turning a blind eye or even worse, praise another for doing exactly the same thing; it's a blatant double standard and it's not objective at all.

Her character isn't perfect; she is horribly underused and since she occupies the position of tritagonist aka heroine, it stands out more than others who, although also sidelined, are only supporting characters. That's the main problem I've always had with Kishimoto's writing about her, but apart from that, I really can't find much bad to say about her character. Again, I'm not saying she's perfect; far from it, but that's what makes her interesting. Sakura's role was to bring a more human side to this series; that was her job. She was never supposed to be like her teammates; Sakura was meant to stay on a human scale because she was created for that.

That's the beauty of her character.

Changing that is changing her very essence, what makes her who she is, and that's what this fandom does; they rewrite her by using the excuse of 'poor writing' as a kind of defensive flag and eliminate from her character everything that makes her, well... her.

Mabel, (a character from the show Gravity Falls) is another case of a rather strange fandom. She is literally 13 years old and yet her character at the time (and even today) has sparked such waves of hatred that those who hadn't watched the show could believe she's the she-Devil incarnate when she... just acts her age. She is, however, an adorable child. She is eccentric, good-hearted, quite prone to blunders, but that's also what makes her endearing. However, the way some talk about her is just... revolting.

To hear them, being a pre-adolescent in fiction and behaving as such is a crime. Like Sakura, she also suffers from a rewriting of her character - although it doesn't manifest in the same way - and from what I've noticed, sometimes it's not even done consciously.

Another thing I've noticed is that they are not the only type of characters to benefit from this treatment from fandoms. Even female characters meeting their 'writing standards' sometimes have these problems. Just look at Diana (Wonder Woman), and how some - many - of her fans have transformed her. She went from the epitome of feminism, meaning a woman treating everyone as equals regardless of their gender, believing in justice and doing her best to uphold it into a lame and arrogant fanon version of herself who hates men, thinks she's superior to them, believes girls are the best thing in the world and no man can surpass them - apparently their version of feminism.

People need to understand that just as we can't please everyone, not all characters can suit everyone's tastes, which is normal. They should focus more on what suits them and ignore what doesn't instead of trying to adapt characters that are not their cup of tea to their personal tastes.

Really.

This crap is why there are so many fanon versions of 'strong and feminist women,' not because their canon version is 'poorly written,' but because they are not written according to their tastes.

On the rare occasions when we actually have unusual characters, different from what we're used to seeing, the fandom takes it upon itself to ruin that by transforming them, thus ruining their characterization.

God only knows how much I have my own issues with the current film industry - and some authors in general - but I acknowledge that they at least make the effort to try in certain aspects, whereas fans don't even try. They tend to blame everyone but themselves because they refuse to accept that they are also part of the problem. So yes, the media is certainly crappy in some ways, but the fandom with their obsession with wanting to "fix" every work or character that doesn't suit them, makes it even crappier. They standardize everyone.

I it's all well and good to reblog/like posts criticizing fandom spaces and their treatment of fictional characters, but maybe it would be wise to actually apply what you claim to agree with, and not selectively.

This is a subject I didn't really intend to address on Tumblr, but I couldn't help myself after coming across one of your requests where you were talking about the writing of female characters in Naruto. As someone who is currently writing a thesis on media-fandom dynamics, this syndrome of 'good/bad writing' is one of the points I address, which prompted me to express my opinion.

Anyway, I hope I'm not bothering you with my overly long essay; I tend to talk way too much when a subject is close to my heart.

I'll be honest - When I first saw the length of your ask, I was just like "holy shit", and my first thought was to just read it and give a generic "yeah I agree" answer at the end. However, this was a very good read and I pretty much agreed with most, if not all of what you said. So it ultimately made me want to give my thoughts on a few specific things you mentioned which resonated with me.

I don't want to be a asshole or anything, but I really struggle with the notion of a 'well-written female character' that people have been shoving down our throats in recent years. Nowadays, for a female character to be considered 'well-written,' she must either primarily fit the 'badass femme fatale' archetype - almost invulnerable with its derivatives - or be a 'masculine woman’.

Yep, I made a similar point during this post where I discussed a YouTube video about how Nobara (JJK) is apparently what Sakura (Naruto) was supposed to be, and I went into detail about how utterly flawed their reasoning was.

As much as I understand why people want women to have more diverse roles and not be reduced to the 'dumb blonde,' the 'damsel in distress,' or the 'walking love interest' as before, I also think that what we have today does just as much of a disservice to female representation as years ago. How is what we are doing today inherently different from before? We have taken female characters out of the tropes that imprisoned them... to fundamentally lock them into other stereotypical tropes that we refuse to let them out of again. These types of characters are often praised as examples of quality female representation, but is that really the case?

Yep, the feminist, boss babe archetype is dominating now. It's even seeped into the Marvel movies, which is a component of why they have tanked recently. It hasn't improved their character depth, and it often just seems as though the writers these days care more about racial diversity, LGBTQ representation, and their skewed idea of "female empowerment", rather than creating plots which are actually engaging and make sense.

I would like to see more weak women because it is not necessary to be traditionally strong to be valid. I want to see crazy people, psychopaths, eccentrics, but also sweet, shy, calm characters. I would like to see more women make mistakes without needing a tragic past to justify them. I would also like to see more realistic women. There are some, yes, but not many, and strangely these types of characters tend to be labeled as poorly written and then completely rewritten by their fandom to fit their idealized version of what a 'good female character' should be.

This part above resonated with me a lot.

The most uncomfortably accurate examples I have in mind are Mabel Pines and Sakura Haruno; just look at the hate these two receive to realize that a majority of the public can't handle female characters whose behavior is more human than extraordinary. The funny thing about this is that people don't even realize that with this kind of behavior, they are perpetuating stereotypes that ironically they are trying to break. Some realize it but prefer to absolve themselves by blaming the media/authors they accuse of poorly writing women, largely in order to justify the disgusting and relatively hypocritical behaviors they have towards certain female characters.

This is a very interesting point.

This is particularly evident in Sakura's case; the hatred people have for her is just pathological at this point, further exacerbated by mass effect. Many fans blame Kishimoto for « writing her poorly », which they believe is their main issue with her character. The fact is when you look at the situation as a whole, this excuse doesn't even hold up. The things she is condemned for cannot be solely attributed to her; some of the other most popular characters in this franchise exhibit the same characteristics and sometimes even worse than anything she has shown before, but for some reason, she is the only character in this series who is so vilified because of it. When it comes to others, most fans make excuses for them, except you can't judge a character for something they did while turning a blind eye or even worse, praise another for doing exactly the same thing; it's a blatant double standard and it's not objective at all.

💯

It's as I always say - Sakura and or/SasuSaku are the exceptions to everything.

That is the reason why I even created this meme for myself, because I found myself saying this so often in response to Sakura being the only one getting hated on for things other characters have exhibited.

Her character isn't perfect; she is horribly underused and since she occupies the position of tritagonist aka heroine, it stands out more than others who, although also sidelined, are only supporting characters. That's the main problem I've always had with Kishimoto's writing about her, but apart from that, I really can't find much bad to say about her character. Again, I'm not saying she's perfect; far from it, but that's what makes her interesting. Sakura's role was to bring a more human side to this series; that was her job. She was never supposed to be like her teammates; Sakura was meant to stay on a human scale because she was created for that. That's the beauty of her character.

Changing that is changing her very essence, what makes her who she is, and that's what this fandom does; they rewrite her by using the excuse of 'poor writing' as a kind of defensive flag and eliminate from her character everything that makes her, well... her.

That reminds me of how often I see people describe themselves as Sakura fans, and then they proceed to criticise the fuck out of her (mainly due to her relationship with Sasuke and how it goes against all of their "boss babe" ideals of how apparently strong and independent women don't need no man!). And so I'm just like, how are you a Sakura fan then? If they had their way with Sakura's character, she would be unrecognisable to her canon self. They don't like Sakura, they like the idea of what they wanted her to be.

Mabel, (a character from the show Gravity Falls) is another case of a rather strange fandom. She is literally 13 years old and yet her character at the time (and even today) has sparked such waves of hatred that those who hadn't watched the show could believe she's the she-Devil incarnate when she... just acts her age. She is, however, an adorable child. She is eccentric, good-hearted, quite prone to blunders, but that's also what makes her endearing. However, the way some talk about her is just... revolting.

I don't watch Gravity Falls so I know nothing about the situation, but I can imagine what you're talking about.

Another thing I've noticed is that they are not the only type of characters to benefit from this treatment from fandoms. Even female characters meeting their 'writing standards' sometimes have these problems. Just look at Diana (Wonder Woman), and how some - many - of her fans have transformed her. She went from the epitome of feminism, meaning a woman treating everyone as equals regardless of their gender, believing in justice and doing her best to uphold it into a lame and arrogant fanon version of herself who hates men, thinks she's superior to them, believes girls are the best thing in the world and no man can surpass them - apparently their version of feminism.

Yep, that's essentially what recent feminism has devolved into, there's a lot of misandry involved in modern feminism, which is a shame because that doesn't align with its core principles.

This is a subject I didn't really intend to address on Tumblr, but I couldn't help myself after coming across one of your requests where you were talking about the writing of female characters in Naruto. As someone who is currently writing a thesis on media-fandom dynamics, this syndrome of 'good/bad writing' is one of the points I address, which prompted me to express my opinion. Anyway, I hope I'm not bothering you with my overly long essay; I tend to talk way too much when a subject is close to my heart.

The manner in which you articulated your opinions was very good, so I'm not surprised you're writing a thesis on this, I can tell how passionate you are about this topic. If you haven't done so already, you should consider starting your own blog or something similar as a hobby, I can tell you'd excel if the above is anything to go by 👍

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