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liondanosaur · 4 months

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yes!! (thank u for liking it :D)

i think a lot of people also, again, push heteronormative ideas onto dan and phil - and that definitely includes monogamy.

they might be extremely strictly monogamous but i think some people are too attached the the concept that they are only for each other and i feel that thats also peoples distaste or misunderstanding of non-monogamous relationships because i think for a lot of people the concept of being non monogamous means the love in the relationship is less? so i think not only is it pushing heteronormative ideas on their relationship but also having bad concepts of non-monogamy where they really dont like thinking people can love each other and sleep with others or have other partners. i think even though we are a community of majority queer people, people still have bad preconceived notions of queer identities and relationships, and its sad to see people still pushing only heteronormative ideas onto other people in our community :/

thank you for sharing your opinion because i definitely agree 🫶

Dan and Phil, phandom expectations, the complexities of queer dynamics and how they are erased by people.

I'm going to start this by stating that this isn't directed towards anyone who makes jokes about things like "phivorce" or "our married dads" or fainting a bit (me too) over dan saying phil is a power bottom. It is also not to fault anyone for being young during 2009-2019 and not understanding boundaries or how badly you overstepped when you were a teen or younger, but about people who are still active in this community and have genuine expectations about Dan and Phil’s life and what they should be sharing with us.

For a long time, Dan and Phil's relationship has been romanticised and sexualised throughout many different mediums such as fanfics, tumblr blogs inspecting small movements and amounting them to intense theories and so on. Dan and Phil themselves have stated they don't have issues with fan fictions, and neither do I - however, overtime when people's basis for the fantasy of what dan and phil could do or could say have become distorted from reality (for some people within the fandom). Some examples would be, people's expectations on their sleeping situations, their sexual and romantic lives & the way that they would eventually "announce" their relationship.

But for me, the main issue has always ended up being the erasure of queer connections that tend to contradict what people expect from them. There is no basis with queer relationships for what they need to be, when two people find themselves in a queer relationship in any way, there's no expectation of the way it should play out. In heterosexual relationships, there is a worldwide accepted idea (which isn't fair, but has always been the assumed basis for along time) that it should be, dating, marriage, house and then children and so many different expectations of small things based on culture and country.

Queer couples don't have an outline and tend to be able to make their own.

The truth is, is that Dan and Phil will never fit into the heterosexual stereotypes people eagerly want from them, because they are two queer men. Queer relationships are unconventional fundamentally. Two people could be a couple and sleep in separate beds, never kiss and not engage in sexual acts together and still be a queer couple, they could also be married and sleep in the same bed but not be sexually involved or literally anything they choose, because there's no one telling them what to be. I won't make assumptions on what they are because this post is mainly about counteracting that , but all that I mean to say is that, every aspect of a queer relationship can just be decided by the two people, which tends to make for a relationship where things can be different from the normal concept of how we see heterosexual relationships displayed in media and in life. Queer people get to decide every small detail based on if they feel comfortable with those different things, instead of heterosexual relationships where a lot of the time people feel that there is a preconceived notion of how the relationship should play out.

There seems to be this agreement in the phandom that dan and phil haven't confirmed themselves fully to be dating, "but they are but aren't but are but aren't", and I think what people miss is that is what a queer relationship is like. No, dan and phil will most likely never make a video saying "we are married, this is the bed we sleep in together every night" and then kiss on camera, because why would anyone? They've said many times they are together, but people always crave more - because the way they say it isn't in some intensely straight on YouTube in your face manner, it's just casual - the same way its casual for anyone in a decade long queer relationship to not make a massive deal out of their relationship.

For a long time people have had a vision, due to imagine posts on Tumblr, fan fictions about it, and loads of other things, that it would be some grand announcement - that they are married and had a secret wedding and all of these over saturations of exceptions from two normal people who gave us the safe space and shared their lives with us. You will most likely always only receive dan agreeing that him and phil are 'just like a normal gay relationship', or describing themselves as "best friends, arch enemies, husbands, business partners, partners in crime, soulmates, just mates, who the fuck knows?'.

I think, for a lot of people who lived out their teenage or younger years of they lives reading, thinking or fantasising about dan and phil one day being out, the way it's occurred may have felt anticlimactic because of the high expectations of how someone would give out a really sensitive part of themselves to the world. To have lived in the thoughts that they would have made a big deal out of things, it can make the way they approach it seem disappointing in a way, to the point that people are still expecting an announcement about a marriage or at least their relationship some time soon - even though dan says he hates commitment (which can mean many different things, and people view what commitment is in various different ways), most gay couples don't tend to get married and phil's said how daunting having a wedding sounds in the past.

Dan and phil have an extremely special bond, one that even dan has explained transcends any human relationship, and to say that they might not share a bed, or maybe they aren’t romantic in ways you may expect, or maybe they are, or maybe there’s lots of complexities to the way they are with each other, those things don’t take away from the deep connection they have. People shouldn’t reduce their deep connection by the expectations of what they want a relationship to be, if they have separate beds, if they have a shared one, if they are comfortable in a middle ground of just existing in each others presence without ever tying a public word to what their dynamic is - all of it is down to them to share. When you experience such a strong connection with another person, and have for over a decade, it cannot be tied up in a neat bow for people, and it must be daunting to know that people have a preconceived notion of what they desire them to be, and that they can’t meet all the standards people want from them.

Dan and Phil transcend any normal expectations of a relationship, and to admit that isn’t to erase the connection they have, but rather to accept that this expectation of a heteronormative relationship between two queer individuals is limiting to how deep their connection truly is, and is erasing that queer connections are much different and can be much stronger than an average straight relationship. It is also important to not erase their friendship just to speak about their romantic relationship, because their platonic relationship is extremely important, and is something that is so special.

I guess the main consensus is that people need to understand the complexities of queer relationships, that queer platonic couples exist (which may not be what Dan and Phil are, they could be what lots of people want them to be, but there's no acknowledgement of the possibility of it being something like that), and that if you're going to be speaking about queer couples, at least comprehend how they aren't going to be a heteronormative idealistic couple, and how a lot of people need to stop expecting them to be.

This isn't to stomp on lighthearted jokes we and dan and phil make, like funny comments about our divorced dad's when dan went on tour or how we are the children of old gay rats or anything that is of course lighthearted fandom bantering and not something you expect them to actually ever meet the expectations of, but more so a commentary on the way that people still discuss things they have made clear that they do not want speculation on, and things they have many times set boundaries on. A lot of people's fantasy of a big "we are together" YouTube announcement most likely won't occur, because of the amount of times they have reiterated their want to keep private things private, and that is okay. That doesn’t take away from the strong relationship that is present between them or the magic in their videos or dynamic.

We all collectively love dan and phil, that's why we are all here, watch and love them. It's time, really, to accept that they are simply two amazing silly boys who live together in their forever home and choose to share their lives with us, and that should be enough for people, and if it isn't - it would be good (not in a cruel way, but from one phan to another) to reevaluate if you are overstepping something that is blatantly going over a boundary and if you have a fantasy image of them that you’re pushing onto them.

I’d also love to hear anyone else’s points on this topic as I feel like I could also write 800 more paragraphs, and if you have any additions or disagreements or just general discussion about it - I’m open to hearing anyones opinions as I think queer dynamics don’t get discussed enough :-] thank you for reading!

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