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Lestat the Musical’s No. 1 Apologist Lestat the Musical’s No. 1 Hater
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The Unholy Family™ ♥️♥️♥️
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@elrondsscribe with respect, I’m not sure if this is a bad faith reading of what I said? But my point is directed at the hand-wringing audience not the show runners, so if I must clarify further: the actions of Book!David and Book!Marius should (and will) have zero bearing on how AMC chooses to adapt Show!David and Show!Marius. And to your question that I wish you hadn’t left in the tags: I want AMC to continue doing what they’re doing, and I want the audience to stop treating fictional characters like real people.
You cannot realistically cut Marius, he’s too important to the larger narrative and you shouldn’t cut David because he’s too connected to the larger Talamasca series plans. Anne may have wanted to write about indefensible characters, but that isn’t a possibility on network cable tv so the solution is simple: strip away their most challenging character traits as they have already done for Louis, Lestat and Armand, but leave some of the palatable ones.
I don’t think this is a bad thing btw if that wasn’t clear, but I don’t think it’s been entirely successful either. Lestat, for example, has been made worse, and the show-only audience hates him. I don’t know if that’s even fixable at this point, but I respect the boldness of the choice. We should hate all of them to be honest. But ultimately we will just have to see how it goes.. but I at least have a lot of faith that the show will find other ways to demonstrate the evil of each character beyond Anne’s methods, and hopefully still retain that air of southern gothic unease.
Genuinely hope that helps to clarify what I was trying to say
“Marius and David not welcome” is sort of funny to me in the grand scheme of this series, like I get the basis of this argument is “well they’re both creeps” but to that point I’d recommend a reevaluation of the entire series, particularly its cast of characters.
They are all guilty of some manner of abuse. They all commit horrific atrocities. And they moralize over these atrocities. Like. That is the principle upon which the entire series is built. Can these literal monsters ever be redeemed?
When you read Interview with the Vampire did you feel some extreme discomfort with the father/lover dynamic between Louis and Claudia? (which was excised from the show I might add) That locked-door uneasiness is the essence of southern/gothic fiction. Read V.C. Andrews. Read Shirley Jackson. Read William Faulkner. The taboos, the ick if you will, is the foundation of gothic horror. You are meant to feel this. It is an essential function of the genre.
Like- every one of Anne’s books that followed IwtV had to essentially compete with the gothic genius that is the invention of Claudia and the sickness that is her story. It’s not all effective, but it’s there in almost every work. TVL has Lestat and Gabrielle’s incestuous relationship, QotD has Armand’s abuse (yes, abuse) of Daniel. For god’s sake, TTotBT features Lestat committing a rape, and I know that you all know this. Yet no matter how you try to headcanon that scene away, it will always be significant because its very function is to service the larger themes of bodily autonomy and consent within that specific novel.
Killing in fiction is benign. We are desensitized to it. And we know this. Killing means nothing, so the narrative must work harder to find a violence that can demonstrate evil to a desensitized audience. There is a reason that these books are shelved in fiction as opposed to genre. By design, their difficulty is inherently literary. You’re uncomfortable? Good. Then Anne achieved her goal.
But if you’re looking to proselytize and transform the work into something with a black and white morality system then you have come to the wrong series. You are gatekeeping yourself from a nuanced understanding of the material. David and Marius are as bad as everyone else. The main trio are not exempt from this reading. That was the point. They are all bad. They are all complex. It is meant to be difficult to parse. Engage with it or don’t, but you are deluding yourself if you think that these two main characters are somehow going to vanish from the tv show.
(And again, AMC is going to strip away the most challenging character traits anyway)
#iwtv meta#tvc meta#amc iwtv#david talbot#justin kirk#interview with the vampire#iwtv#anne rice#marius de romanus#lestat de lioncourt#the vampire armand#louis de pointe du lac
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Hot take I guess but the fandom was way too hard on this book (and still is tbh) and for what? Because it isn’t interested in fan service? If anything Anne’s writing was at its best when she ignored what fans wanted, and I think it’s time for a reevaluation of my boy Vittorio the Vampire.
I just think this was such a promising start to New Tales (more than Pandora, even) and I sort of hate all of you for boycotting it or telling new readers to skip it. (as far as i’m concerned TVA, Merrick, B&G, BF and BC are all unofficially New Tales anyway.. TVL-MtD are the only proper vampire chronicles, everything else falls into different categories, but I digress).
With regard to Vittorio, however, we were given a true blue Ricean vampire hunter novel (the only one mind you) with an actual, functioning plot and some of the best action she’s written since TVL… and you all shunned it. And I get it, we don’t read these books for conventional, commercial plot contrivances, but for the florid language and richly crafted characters; but this is the rare Anne Rice novel that’s just.. fun for the sake of fun?
And no, I’m not blind to its problems. It absolutely needed another draft or two (as do a lot of the later VC entires) and no, Vittorio is not her strongest protagonist by leagues. But what we got was still filled to the brim with good ideas?
The Court of the Ruby Grail cult, especially, is one my favorite of Anne’s inventions. Like their dynamic with the local human villages feeding them their castoffs was legitimately disturbing and IMO better executed than most of the times she retreaded the Children of Darkness post-TVL.
And while Vittorio the character might be kind of boring, Florian and Ursula carry this novel and deserved to enter the larger narrative tapestry on their strengths alone but “waaah Lestat and co. aren’t here” so “it’s bad” or whatever.. I really can’t stand some of y’all.
Anyway, this is long enough and I really didn’t set out to write an essay in defense of what is ultimately a mid-tier entry into this series. But. I still feel that much in the way that MtD and Blackwood Farm have been recently reassessed as good novels that happen to be bad VC entires I think it’s time for some of you to similarly reevaluate Vittorio the Vampire, because this is a good vampire novel, it just isn’t a good vampire chronicle (well I think it is and yet and yet and yet). But it’s still part of the series and it does fit into the larger picture despite what some will have you believe.
If this is your first time, I personally like to read VTV between Body Thief and Memnoch. I think it is better thematically situated there than between TVA and Merrick as initially published. The archangels that enter later in the story build nicely upon David’s vision of God and Satan in TTOTBT and make for a strong intermission full of angels and demons that assist in setting up the Dantean finale of MtD. (I have more suggested reading orders btw, some other time perhaps).
I dunno.. if you like this book please let me know lol like I could use the solidarity because I feel like I’m the only one (I have it ranked #6 out of 15). But yeah, I think Vittorio is probably the most underrated and most unfairly slandered entry in Anne’s entire catalogue if I’m being completely honest.
#interview with the vampire#iwtv#anne rice#lestat#amc iwtv#vampire chronicles#amc interview with the vampire#the vampire chronicles#Vittorio the vampire
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Something that's been fascinating to see recently is people either remembering or realizing for the first time just how, well, "Anne Rice" Anne Rice's writing was. It's a lot darker than the mainstream perception (the Twilight-fication and TVD-fication of vampires definitely influenced that perception, too)
I was certainly shocked when I first read 'Interview' because I kept hearing about how beautiful and soulful her writing was. And, yeah she did write very elegant, hauntingly beautiful prose... but within that prose is the most depraved, WTF-did-I-just-read things. THAT was maybe-unintentionally left out of the recommendation! And it kept getting more, well, Ricean as the chronicles progressed! So, yes, her vampires are very soulful and tragic and all that. But make no mistake - they're also incredibly fucked up. And she intended it that way, too.
So, I guess my recommendation for anyone wanting to read Rice's works is... well, give it a shot, but just keep that in mind.
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I cannot believe I’m seeing Lelio era Lestat in live action like this a life long dream folks I’m unraveling
Who's that handsome man on the wall?
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TVL’s comic adaptation remains my favorite non-novel VC media I said what I said
The most beautiful moment in TVL that never fails to make me so overwhelmed with sentiment. I don't know how else to describe it. They have been apart for so long and Louis relived everything that happened to them. Everything they went through he went through again during the interview which makes their reunion so much more gut-wrenching for me.
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Bernie Madoff would have had a field day with Lestat
The great thing about TVC is not a single human being ever benefits from knowing vampires, like fucking ever, except for the one of Lestat's lawyers who DIDN'T get smooshed and that's just because that guy doesn't give a shit. Gets paid though! And I assume skims too because WHeW what a mark
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For a minute there I thought that was the hilarious Ross Matthews
Can we take a moment to appreciate this brilliance?
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kaelio and co. are providing us an invaluable service like some of you could be patient and appreciative
Anne Rice's journals weren't for public consumption, so she has entries about vampire stuff wedged directly between very sensitive medical information and family stuff. I'm sorry people are so fucking entitled that they think they need to know what medication she was on every half-hour that they don't think they can wait to get the full text. Fuck you honestly.
If it comes between being courteous to Rice and being courteous to strangers, we're obviously going to choose Anne. It's amazing she even donated the journals considering some of the stuff in them. The plan is to upload the relevant segments on a by-journal basis, which is why we took pictures of the folder titles, which you'd know if you'd even gone through the stuff we've upload SO FAR, but we're not done because we have lives and fucking day jobs. A sneak peek is not a taunt you dumbass.
By the way, if you're curious how we're doing this, we're going through page-by-page and filtering between "TVC relevant" and completely non-relevant pages, the latter of which will be edited page by page to remove non-TVC material. Obviously this takes a bit longer than just posting the drafts, in no small part because it's in cursive handwriting, which isn't quite as quick to visually scan.
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“Marius and David not welcome” is sort of funny to me in the grand scheme of this series, like I get the basis of this argument is “well they’re both creeps” but to that point I’d recommend a reevaluation of the entire series, particularly its cast of characters.
They are all guilty of some manner of abuse. They all commit horrific atrocities. And they moralize over these atrocities. Like. That is the principle upon which the entire series is built. Can these literal monsters ever be redeemed?
When you read Interview with the Vampire did you feel some extreme discomfort with the father/lover dynamic between Louis and Claudia? (which was excised from the show I might add) That locked-door uneasiness is the essence of southern/gothic fiction. Read V.C. Andrews. Read Shirley Jackson. Read William Faulkner. The taboos, the ick if you will, is the foundation of gothic horror. You are meant to feel this. It is an essential function of the genre.
Like- every one of Anne’s books that followed IwtV had to essentially compete with the gothic genius that is the invention of Claudia and the sickness that is her story. It’s not all effective, but it’s there in almost every work. TVL has Lestat and Gabrielle’s incestuous relationship, QotD has Armand’s abuse (yes, abuse) of Daniel. For god’s sake, TTotBT features Lestat committing a rape, and I know that you all know this. Yet no matter how you try to headcanon that scene away, it will always be significant because its very function is to service the larger themes of bodily autonomy and consent within that specific novel.
Killing in fiction is benign. We are desensitized to it. And we know this. Killing means nothing, so the narrative must work harder to find a violence that can demonstrate evil to a desensitized audience. There is a reason that these books are shelved in fiction as opposed to genre. By design, their difficulty is inherently literary. You’re uncomfortable? Good. Then Anne achieved her goal.
But if you’re looking to proselytize and transform the work into something with a black and white morality system then you have come to the wrong series. You are gatekeeping yourself from a nuanced understanding of the material. David and Marius are as bad as everyone else. The main trio are not exempt from this reading. That was the point. They are all bad. They are all complex. It is meant to be difficult to parse. Engage with it or don’t, but you are deluding yourself if you think that these two main characters are somehow going to vanish from the tv show.
(And again, AMC is going to strip away the most challenging character traits anyway)
#interview with the vampire#iwtv#anne rice#lestat#amc iwtv#vampire chronicles#amc interview with the vampire#the vampire chronicles#tvc#armand#louis de pointe du lac#marius de romanus#david talbot
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iwtv s2 already a masterpiece: armand making out with all the boys, while he and lestat try to outcunt each other, louis and daniel competing to win the interview with the vampire, something that is both normal to want and possible to achieve, while louis’ psyche unravels more and more and daniel is fighting for his life as he chants to himself ‘i’m straight i’m straight’. but as always who suffers more than jesus? claudia.
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“Lestat’s rockstar era can’t have happened already or Daniel would remember”
Baby. Daniel doesn’t even remember that he was in a relationship with Armand. Do you really think he remembers a one hit wonder band from 1984? A band that vanished into obscurity after like.. two weeks of existence??
That’s like asking your mom “did you know Kajagoogoo were vampires?” She would be like, “uhh.. remind me who?” Zero mind wiping necessary.
Ultimately we already got present-day-rockstar-Lestat in 2002, and as much as the younger audience doesn’t want to hear this, rock in 2022 is dead. AMC wants to subvert your expectations, and in much the same way that they requested to change the season 1 time period to avoid simply remaking IWTV94, I’m confident that they feel similarly towards QOTD02.
It’s okay to let the show be a period piece and set the TVL-QOTD era in the late 70s early 80s. We have already established an active timeline in the 1970s. Let the present day remain a framing device for reflecting upon the past.
#interview with the vampire#iwtv#anne rice#lestat#amc iwtv#amc interview with the vampire#the vampire lestat
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did i stutter?? absolutely feral
“loustat this, loumand that.. blah blah devils minion”
y’all aren’t ready for the chaos when the lesmand nation finally gets our turn in the spotlight
(look at them.. on screen together.. at long last)
#vc#lestat de lioncourt#the vampire lestat#iwtv season 2#the vampire armand#interview with the vampire#iwtv
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WAIT WAIT WAIT. DO WE KNOW WHO THIS MAN TALKING TO DANIEL IS LIKE DID WE JUST GET OUR FIRST HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT LOOK AT DAVID TALBOT?!?!?!?!???
#interview with the vampire#iwtv#anne rice#david talbot#lestat#amc iwtv#vampire chronicles#amc interview with the vampire#the vampire chronicles#tvc#armand
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It is #Molloy Monday and I am here to remind you that Daniel is featured most from 1975-1985 aka the Sluttiest Era of Modern Male Fashion.
Coming in HOT we have the cut off short shorts and cropped t-shirt or mostly unbuttoned button down combo. Daniel visited some warm climates during the chase years so I invite you to picture him in the tiniest ripped jean shorts sweating over whether or not that auburn haired lady down the street is actually Armand!!
Or going into the 80s sometimes the tops were REALLY cropped and exposed midrift and back!! Like just picture Daniel fucking around on Night Island in this, wow wow!!
But even when the pants were long the t-shirts were TIGHT, maximum pec definition through the shirt was a must.
If he didn't wanna show that much skin? That was fine because turtlenecks where IN baby!! These are basically vampire lingerie imo, covering up the most succulent part of the neck but still leaving a hint exposed below the jaw?? Armand had to have been dying of thirst!!!
(Also when it says Armand came to pick Daniel up from jail in a lawyer's tweed suit? He wasn't wearing no modern cut, he'd have been rocking the big lapels because this was the 70s tyvm)
Also important to note was that the 70s were the era of glam rock and androgyny, so picking a silky button down that looks like a women's blouse? Totally okay for men, very in style so long as you leave the top buttons undone to expose maximum chest.
Btw velour? Was IN. This is the 1979 equivalent of a juicy couture tracksuit which Armand could have snuggled right into while they were living in London.
And while the 80s sees the rise of a looser fit, that doesn't mean the crop top died or that people weren't still rocking a more form fitted jean when they were feeling casual.
This photo is from NYC in 1983 and shows that tight t-shirts and short shorts were still very much alive, just styled a bit differently! A tight top and looser straight leg jeans, or short bottom and a flowy open top took the place of all fitted looks.
Or that the mostly unbuttoned button down went away- if anything in the 80s the buttons went even LOWER and more revealing. Paired with a boxy linen suit this is essential 80s Miami aka Night Island looks.
and yeah that's spader, leave me alone, he's peak 80s here
This sweater is loose but it's got the deep V neck and a sheer knit, perfect for the beach!!
And yeah this is Sapder AGAIN but note the half open shirt, leather jacket, and jeans that get tighter near the ankle!! Classic 80s, baggy but still sexy, A+.
I SWEAR this is the last time I'm gonna use and abuse him but peep the muscle tank with the DIY cut edges on the arm holes! V neck! 80s!!!
Basically the takeaway here is that if you're putting them in the 80s and having them rock something baggy and double denim, the look still featured a tight waistline and rolled sleeves or rolled ankles to tighten the jeans. It wasn't just baggy all over!!
Here's some random images from the entire era to finish off:
So next time you're working on fic or art instead of just tossing Daniel into a regular old t-shirt and jeans consider doing some slutty 70s and 80s looks instead 😌
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favourite VC fanfic… trope??? inside joke???? that never fails to make me laugh is authors casually dropping the word “preternatural” like it’s nothing…
I see you, i know what you’re doing, it was funny the first time, and it’s still funny 1000 fics later
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