Agreed. It is a very bad ship, but that does explain why people are SO attached to the "mentor" angle despite having no canon support.

The additional point is that there really aren't any cute canon parallels with Stizzy you could toss into fanfic... except maybe the shirt cut up? They don't have any remarkable interactions. A ship that is as prolific as Stizzy is somehow churning out fics without being able to have any strong canon callbacks... which is not a concern with that ship, I would say. Fanfics where you can Ctrl+H and swap character names and not lose any impact of the story are not interesting. But I am saying this while there is nothing in the world that has ever and would ever get me to read a Stizzy fic.

Here’s the thing (I didn’t want to keep ranting on that poor person’s post): I really don’t think that you can divorce OFMD’s canon dynamics, and what canon is explicitly saying about abuse and race and masculinity, from ships like Stizzy. Yes, there is an interpretation based on canon that can argue that Izzy is (consciously or not) grooming Stede to become a “New Blackbeard.” It’s a stretch to say that any of that is sexual (if you buy that interpretation), but I guess you can get there.

For that to be a positive thing that in some way upends or supersedes Stede’s feelings for Ed AND transfers them to Izzy, even in a scenario where Ed doesn’t come back, requires taking the perspective that Izzy is the secret, real protagonist and that Stede is his reward.

And this is always the problem. What the show does will always bite you in the ass. You can’t remove issues of race and abuse and masculinity from those characters and have them remain the same characters, without falling into deeply problematic tropes that involve racism and rape culture (and queer characters are not somehow exempt from those things). Because there is actually a reason why this show is not about Izzy Hands and why it’s not Black Sails. There is a reason why Stede falls in love with Ed and not with Izzy. And it’s not solely “because we wanted him to.” It has more complex meaning than that.

This shit is absolutely racist and is absolutely reinforcing rape culture. Is it the most egregious sin that fandom has ever committed? No, but it is there. It is a thing. It’s really not a good idea to pretend that it isn’t.

I am not familiar with that incident at all. Yikes.

I am, however, aware of The Slavery Fic and the backlash against the racist elements and harassment of those who pointed out the racism, and in Canyon History, it's now being passed around that the backlash was about "Izzy's redemption" in the story.

356 anon, friend, you are new here. You missed the whole background on how this "fandom rift" came to be. but the nutshell is, no one hates anyone just for liking Izzy, but a subset of people who are REALLY into Izzy have gone around picking fights with everyone who doesn't agree with their completely nonsensical interpretations of canon, to the extent of claiming, unironically, that Izzy is "jesus-coded" and also the real protagonist and also super competent and always right about everything and super loyal... even as he's shown onscreen to willfully lie to and betray Ed repeatedly, while not being all that good at his job and just kind of generally being a dick.

It's understandable that it doesn't make sense without the background of having seen the repeated rounds of bs those particular Izzy fans who call themselves "the canyon" have created over and over, but if you pay attention and remember what actually happens in the show, you'll see it too soon enough.

They claim "everyone else hates Izzy fans just for liking Izzy" and related stuff about how they're the victims and "everyone's" mean to them "for no reason", meanwhile they go around dogpiling anyone who calls any of them out for actual real-world bad behavior and pretending it's just "persecution of Izzy fans" to point out that one Izzy fan in particular said something really racist, behaved inappropriately with someone's personal information, created sockpuppet accounts to block-evade and harass people, etc etc ...but on the one or two occasions that someone did really cross a line toward an izzy fan, it's PROOF that the whole rest of the fandom is "out to get them" even if everyone else actually jumped on board with smacking down the out of line guy, and they will literally never stop milking it for victim points. Believe me, the rest of us all wish they'd knock it off too.

#365.

related posts: #356

On the last point, for people newer to fandom: the canyon will always relate their Canyon History stories to new fans to include "back in the day, someone doxxed an Izzy fan, and now we have to always protect ourselves!!!!" and never mention the fact that 99.9% of the non-canyon fans condemned and ostracized the doxxer. They also conveniently never mention at least one major doxxing event this year perpetuated by people in the canyon, an event that is still an active threat, because it doesn't fit their victim narrative.

356 anon, friend, you are new here. You missed the whole background on how this "fandom rift" came to be. but the nutshell is, no one hates anyone just for liking Izzy, but a subset of people who are REALLY into Izzy have gone around picking fights with everyone who doesn't agree with their completely nonsensical interpretations of canon, to the extent of claiming, unironically, that Izzy is "jesus-coded" and also the real protagonist and also super competent and always right about everything and super loyal... even as he's shown onscreen to willfully lie to and betray Ed repeatedly, while not being all that good at his job and just kind of generally being a dick.

It's understandable that it doesn't make sense without the background of having seen the repeated rounds of bs those particular Izzy fans who call themselves "the canyon" have created over and over, but if you pay attention and remember what actually happens in the show, you'll see it too soon enough.

They claim "everyone else hates Izzy fans just for liking Izzy" and related stuff about how they're the victims and "everyone's" mean to them "for no reason", meanwhile they go around dogpiling anyone who calls any of them out for actual real-world bad behavior and pretending it's just "persecution of Izzy fans" to point out that one Izzy fan in particular said something really racist, behaved inappropriately with someone's personal information, created sockpuppet accounts to block-evade and harass people, etc etc ...but on the one or two occasions that someone did really cross a line toward an izzy fan, it's PROOF that the whole rest of the fandom is "out to get them" even if everyone else actually jumped on board with smacking down the out of line guy, and they will literally never stop milking it for victim points. Believe me, the rest of us all wish they'd knock it off too.

#365.

related posts: #356

A diagram

I think people keep forgetting that this is a romcom that is focused on Ed and Stede. The example I keep using is Pride & Prejudice. Handing Ed or Stede to Izzy for a ship is the same as handing Elizabeth or Darcy to Wickham for a ship. There is a story centered on a loving and happy couple, and there is an antagonist who caused them very real damage. Doing what-ifs involving Ed/Izzy or Stede/Izzy is VERY DIFFERENT than doing what-if silly shipping (that are actual crackships that you know won't be canon and rely on "work with me in this absurdity!") like Stede/Lucius, Ed/Frenchie, or Stede/Magic Man. In P&P, similarly, doing what-ifs involving Elizabeth/Wickham or Darcy/Wickham is VERY DIFFERENT than doing what-if silly shipping like Elizabeth/Collins or Darcy/Bingley.

In shipping, you have to think in BOTH WAYS on why a ship would work.

In a more extreme example... I like DS9, and I know there are/were people who try out Kira/Dukat and try/tried to pass it off as just as legitimate as her canon consensual relationships (iykyk, that's very messed up).

Here’s the thing (I didn’t want to keep ranting on that poor person’s post): I really don’t think that you can divorce OFMD’s canon dynamics, and what canon is explicitly saying about abuse and race and masculinity, from ships like Stizzy. Yes, there is an interpretation based on canon that can argue that Izzy is (consciously or not) grooming Stede to become a “New Blackbeard.” It’s a stretch to say that any of that is sexual (if you buy that interpretation), but I guess you can get there.

For that to be a positive thing that in some way upends or supersedes Stede’s feelings for Ed AND transfers them to Izzy, even in a scenario where Ed doesn’t come back, requires taking the perspective that Izzy is the secret, real protagonist and that Stede is his reward.

And this is always the problem. What the show does will always bite you in the ass. You can’t remove issues of race and abuse and masculinity from those characters and have them remain the same characters, without falling into deeply problematic tropes that involve racism and rape culture (and queer characters are not somehow exempt from those things). Because there is actually a reason why this show is not about Izzy Hands and why it’s not Black Sails. There is a reason why Stede falls in love with Ed and not with Izzy. And it’s not solely “because we wanted him to.” It has more complex meaning than that.

This shit is absolutely racist and is absolutely reinforcing rape culture. Is it the most egregious sin that fandom has ever committed? No, but it is there. It is a thing. It’s really not a good idea to pretend that it isn’t.

Anyway, I have just read the words "EdStede are now technically AU" and I'm going to go lie down for a while.

If you want to write a ship and not grapple with its issues within canon, then maybe you shouldn't write the ship. Just sayin'.

If your response to a show with healthy BIPOC representation is transplanting the BIPOC lead's personality onto the white antagonist to have meta and fanon discussion, allowing fanon that has the BIPOC lead turning to the slave trade and serial killing and constant irrational anger (while the white antagonist is turned much reasonable) to replace canon, not seeing any issue with in canon the white antagonist setting up the white romcom lead for execution and taking custody of the BIPOC romcom lead as reward, declaring that the white antagonist was just being "mean" when he said the BIPOC romcom lead was too openly gay and soft and needs to be more performatively violent to justify their continued existence, frantically agreeing with between-season-speculation that the white antagonist is going to have to "protect" all the characters from the BIPOC romcom lead's "rage", nodding along to takes that declare the BIPOC lead to be abusive instead of discussing what the show is actually trying to tell us, pushing takes that the BIPOC lead is definitely going to abuse (or worse) their white partner (and call them "the next victim") just after the season closes on the canon main couple's happy end scene, thinking that it just made sense for canon to break up the BIPOC lead's romance by handing their white partner to the white antagonist as a reward or to add the white antagonist to it, declaring that your ships with the white antagonist and the lead(s) are just as valid as the canon main couple in the romcom centered on the canon main couple and discussions on the ship don't need CWs in general chats, refusing to criticize this behavior in fandom (and thus tacitly enabling it) because the people saying it are on your "side", etc. is "Stop calling us/me racist! That makes us feel bad!" or "Ship and let ship" or "The showrunner/creator should've changed their story to accommodate our fanon because it means so much to so many!".... is the majority of the fandom "bullies" and making you feel "unsafe/uncomfortable/unwelcome" for getting tired of that and wanting distance from you?

I am very tired of this "Izzy is a mentor figure" insistence when Izzy spent an hour, tops, "training" Stede. That he didn't actually teach Stede anything seems irrelevant. (Stressing again and again: if Izzy knew how to be a competent pirate, it is irrelevant to being a mentor if he can't transfer knowledge properly. Canon showed neither the competence nor knowledge transfer) Inappropriate and unwelcome touching of what they declare to be a "mentor figure" is a whole new problem. Ed didn't start fondling Stede without permission, and Ed x Stede has beautiful consent dynamics.

If this weren't a romcom and Ed x Stede weren't the whole point of the show, there would be an enemies-to-lovers trope from 1x2 as a ripe opportunity for a rarepair Izzy x Stede in silly fanfic. This is everywhere. I wish people would stick to that instead of inventing characteristics and roles that Izzy never had, especially since this is an avenue that could be worked without removing Ed (most especially if it starts before Stede even meets Ed) or transferring Ed's personality onto Izzy.

I've been encountering more Stizzy out there lately, and whatever, ships aren't moral indicators, don't like don't read, etc. And so I do not read!

But, like. What do Stizzy folks do with Ed?

Stede adores Ed and would never so much as consider someone else, especially not someone he has a mostly antagonistic relationship with. In-show-Izzy is so tied up with Ed that I don't even know what you'd do with him in an Ed-free environment. Do Stizzy writers kill Ed off? Make up whole new universes where Ed never existed (and in that case, why don't Stede and Izzy just hate each other forever without Ed to bring them together)?

I don't like any Izzy ships because I think everyone else on the show deserves better, but this is really the only one that makes absolutely no sense to me, not even as an enemies-to-lovers situation.

Friendly reminder that toxic positivity is damaging!

If someone is being a toxic bully, you don't have to grin and bear it, and you don't have to encourage victim mentality!

Iggy fans don't understand fandom pain. Jaime Lannister is my favoritest character in ASOIAF, and I watched Game of Thrones

The stuff I'm upset about actually happened, not some fanon I invented, and it dragged on much longer

Feeling spicy today

"I'll eat pancakes on her grave!" << me to WBD (2:22)

I remain convinced "f--- the bank" in RIFTF is a callback to this, and no one will ever bother to correct me!

I've been encountering more Stizzy out there lately, and whatever, ships aren't moral indicators, don't like don't read, etc. And so I do not read!

But, like. What do Stizzy folks do with Ed?

Stede adores Ed and would never so much as consider someone else, especially not someone he has a mostly antagonistic relationship with. In-show-Izzy is so tied up with Ed that I don't even know what you'd do with him in an Ed-free environment. Do Stizzy writers kill Ed off? Make up whole new universes where Ed never existed (and in that case, why don't Stede and Izzy just hate each other forever without Ed to bring them together)?

I don't like any Izzy ships because I think everyone else on the show deserves better, but this is really the only one that makes absolutely no sense to me, not even as an enemies-to-lovers situation.

Thinking about these people today: the person who said laughing at Fang's puking Iggy story was ableism, the person who said Stede was keeping Buttons as a slave and forcing him to work for money so he could buy a boat, the person who said OFMD S2 was a money laundering scheme by billionaires because it was beyond their media literacy comprehension, and the person who said "GBs" are a cult of bullies

I hope they all meet each other for they are soulmates

Thanks for the serotonin 🤣

You miss all the shots you don't take

Can we talk about how absolutely fucking unhinged it was for Stede to introduce himself to a woman as "Stede Bonnet, Lover of Beauty"?

Also how Anne was 100% prepped to just have an all-out orgy with him and Ed and Mary? Just, like, totally down for that? Like, probably actually very excited about the prospect?

(This might be the only multiple partner pairing with Stede and Ed I could get behind, just because the dynamics would be so off the fucking wall.)

"What's the goal of the season??"

It's a romcom picking up from a cliffhanger of the main couple being separated. Guess

"Discomfort in a Married State" What does this mean?

In Discord, I jokingly said I'd do the Webster's Dictionary trope to start a post.

But... was I joking?

Webster's Dictionary defines marriage as "an intimate or close union," or closely, marry as "to unite in close and usually permanent relation." Taking about marriage is not just about a literal spousal union, and it is not just about romance. You have aspects and ideas in your life that you are married to even though you don't put the word to it. "Marriage of flavors", "married to your job", "marry academic disciplines,"... I had a teacher who said "I'm not married to this idea" when writing something in scratch work as a possibility.

The title "Discomfort in a Married State" is pulled from a quote from the real Stede Bonnet at his trial, and it's repurposed in the show, used at the start of Fictional Stede's pirate journey rather than the end. To me, I do not feel like the adjective is used in the episode as actually being about a spousal union. Stede is not a good fit with Mary, no, and the episode opens with both Stede and Mary both being pushed into the marriage by their parents because of societal expectations and goes on to show that their marriage doesn't work. However, Mary's not alone in Stede's horror dream, and it doesn't just feature his failures in their marriage: the "married state" title drop slides directly to his father mocking Stede's aversion to violence (and weakness, in his, the father's, eyes) and Smoke Blackbeard and Alma serving as a callback to his naive pirate dreams becoming more starkly real when he was stabbed. Mary wasn't what Stede left; unfortunate as it is, as a man, he had other less extreme options to make an unhappy marriage more comfortable for him. The "marriage" Stede has is the life that his father and role at birth pushed him into, and initially, Stede planned to take Mary with him in leaving it. Stede pushed out into what he viewed as a more idealized lifestyle, even though he's finding out its not the final destination in his journey.

On Ed's side, his parallel is not his relationship with Izzy. In his first big conversation with Stede (the one in the library), he says plainly what his "discomfort" is:

Ed: You ever feel trapped, like you're just treading water, waiting to drown? Stede: Yes, I very much have felt that way. Ed: Blackbeard always wins, that's the thing. He can't fail. It's not even a challenge anymore. People just see the flag, and they freak out, Blackbeard!, and they basically just give up, they surrender. What's the point? I don't even need to be on the boat. I'm a ghost. There's no chaos, there's no drama, there's no fucking life! Stede: Look, I can't believe I'm saying this, but have you ever considered retirement?

Ed's "marriage" is with the Blackbeard persona and the pirate life. He's not happy, and he is also looking for a way out. He's idly mentioning death as an alternative (e.g., the "I haven't died yet, have I?" outburst with Izzy, and "I'm thinking about packing it all in". It can be a bit of a grind"" to Stede before Stede introduces Ed to retirement). He then pivots to the brief identity theft escape, then the China plan with Stede. There is a parallel of the marriage -> finding escape pipeline. Ed and Stede were both intrinsically bound to lives they do not want, and they had to take dramatic steps to leave them.

Izzy narratively differs from Mary in that Mary isn't an antagonist (bless you, DJenks). This is a storytelling medium without monologuing voice overs or Shakespearean soliloquies, and something needs to be in story to represent that conflict. Izzy is the representation of the external antagonistic force that adds fuel to Ed's internal conflict, analogous to the function that the Badmintons (instead of Mary) have for Stede. This is what we mean when we say Izzy is a plot device for Ed's (and to a lesser extent, Stede's) story: most of his scenes (all in S1?) revolve around keeping Ed in a life he doesn't want while also functionally servicing as a conventional reaction to Stede's brand of captaincy (characters like Lucius or Frenchie have their own independent quirks, so that's why they don't get this same comparison). Izzy is in story as the obstacle that keeps pulling Ed into that life, into that marriage with that persona. The story is not literally saying Ed is married to Izzy or that they were former lovers, but as the representation in story, Izzy is going to act like a jilted spouse. (And Ed's not into him and views him as a father figure, so... not a literal spousal marriage.)

In the end, the "married state" is not literally about Mary or Izzy. Stede would still be unhappy with a different wife or as a bachelor in the same stagnating lifestyle. Ed would still be unhappy with a different first mate but still living as Blackbeard. Ed reacting strongly in 2x7 when he thought there would be a conflict of a possible deal breaking choice of staying with Stede and leaving piracy show that it isn't just about the right person but making sure that the two perfect people who found each other are both in a position to live a life that makes them both happy outside of their relationship. This is also a romcom very pointedly leading toward a climatic wedding of Ed and Stede, and the message is not that Stede and Ed don't like being married at all: they need to work together to reach a "married state" that satisfies all facets of their lives. They're so close!

We're joined to one another. Intertwined. We wrote our names on each other in permanent ink.

They're working together on their relationship ("the inn" at the end of 2x8 isn't literally about the inn), and they're finding the path to go on that takes them both to a place to where they want to be.

Also, "Comfort in a Married State", calling it as an episode title after WBD collapses and OFMD gets a pick up 🥰

Round 4 (final round!) of Favorite Stede quote of 1x4, 1x5, and 1x6!

Cross platform breakdown of last round: