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huesofvioletandpurple · 4 months

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Let's Keep It Simple: Power Dynamics in Milgram

(CWs: Ableism, Abuse, Bullying, Unhealthy Power Dynamics)

(This is partially me putting this post and this post together and partially a more cleanly written version of the ideas discussed in this reblog chain and partially additional thoughts after both.)

(Big thanks to: Tsuwmya, Tired-and-unslimed, Archivalofsins and Clownsalot for contributing to the original chain and making this thing much bigger than it would of been otherwise)

(Also big thanks to: Roseofcards90, 1moremilgramenjoyer, Tsuwmya, Tokyogruel and milgram-side-blog for reading this!)

When talking about heroism and the ideas associated with them, it's easy to focus on the altruistic and selfless aspects of it. The ideal of a brave hero selflessly protecting the innocent is an appealing one.

And there's nothing Inherently wrong with wanting to help people! It's good to help people instead of giving up on them. However, being a hero is an ideal, one that no one could live up to without destroying themselves in the process. And the ideal of heroism practiced by the characters in Milgram isn't fully altruistic.

When you are defining your entire sense of self through heroism, you are incentivized to find (or Create) people who are Weaker than you to Validate that sense of self. It's self-serving in a way, this isn't coming from a genuine want to help but a want to feel in power.

Let's consider Yuno's reaction to her voting in T2.

(Yuno T2 VD)

Yuno: Ah, yes yes. Well, this is going to be purely—purely—personal opinion but…I find those kinds of assumptions preachy and unpleasant! They’re worthless! Arbitrarily deciding that I’m pitiable. Arbitrarily making up a backstory for me. Creating a personally idealized version of me. Creating an acceptable version of me. They really exist, you know, those kinds of people. And in particular, those kinds of people…won’t do anything for me.

When you pity someone you implicitly assume they are weaker than You, and are unable to help themselves in any meaningful way. Not only that but Yuno is upset at the creation of a version of her that is "idealized." A version of her that is the easiest to sympathize and pity.

It's dehumanizing in a way. Yuno is being projected onto like an Object, instead of being treated as a person. Her agency is being removed for the sake of an easier narrative. Something more convenient to the people around her.

This is an idea Yuno is intimately familiar with, as she's been repeatedly selling different versions of herself to different people. She gives a version of herself those people Want from her. Yuno dislikes being pitied and infantilized like this. She chose to do this, whether if it was a bad decision or not is Different from if Yuno has agency. Which she does.

Milgram's saviors tend to fall into this trap. They don't believe the person on the other side has any agency, they don't trust in that person's ability to interact with the world, and they don't trust in that person's judgement. There is a Fundamental Lack of Respect here for the person being saved.

Which leads us to Shidou Kirasaki.

A Cozy Coffin

I have a lot of strong feelings about Shidou. There's a lot about him that remains mysterious and a lot of him I simply do not trust. However something I am sure about is Shidou's lack of care for the people he tries to save and his Unwillingness to change in the face of that.

Shidou Kirasaki's care is self-serving, it reflects in his medical career and it reflects in how he treats the people around him. He even says it himself, he's selfish.

(Aesculapius)

Shidou: Es-kun. I’ve killed a lot of people. Like I previously told you in the interrogation, I’ve killed for selfish reasons as well. So…

And while Shidou is admittedly unreliable as he Wants to be voted unforgiven. T2 Shidou wants to stay innocent, because he's important, more important than anyone else.

That’s right, there’s justice that needs saving See, indispensable, I’m indispensable

Shidou believes in his own importance, he believes he contributes something useful to the prison.

T1Q1: Why did you choose your current workplace? Because I thought it'd let me contribute to society.

And while he Is a doctor and Is Important, he tends to dismiss people who he thinks are weaker than him or who contribute Less in his eyes.

If it’s not needed, I’m not interested

“Throw down”, someone’s value Cannot be the same as another “Throw down” should choose between superiority or inferiority

There are people who are Inferior and people who are Superior, and he has the ability to choose who is who. But when people who are Inferior do contribute something to him in some way, he diminishes and erases their agency they have because he believes himself to Know Better.

20/06/13

Shidou: I…… I just don’t understand. If everything about MILGRAM is true…… why did a child like you have to become a murderer? Just imagining what sort of circumstances must have led to that, it makes me so sad…… Amane: ……*sigh*. Is that right. I don’t think I’m going to get along with you, Shidou-san. I don’t agree with the fact you refuse to acknowledge that I have my own free will, and that I should be held accountable for my actions, just because I’m a child. I may have only been alive for 12 years, but all the choices I’ve made, even if they weren’t the best ones, were entirely my own. What point is there in you getting sad when I have no regrets myself? ……please give me back my test. It seems you don’t have the concentration levels required to be my teacher. I’m going to get Kotoko-san to teach me instead. Shidou: Amane…… I don’t think that’s true. However smart you may be…… you’re still just a child.

While we know for a fact that Amane's actions were influenced by her familial situation, that isn't what Amane is criticizing here. What she Is criticizing is what we did to Yuno in T1. He invented an idealized backstory for Amane without knowing Anything about her except that she's in Milgram with everyone else. And while that is a concern, the choices she made were her Own, independent of whether or not she had a tragic backstory.

But Shidou doesn't Acknowledge that, because acknowledging that there is a level of agency in her actions would complicate the narrative. It be much easier for him to help if it wasn't complicated.

Shidou was a father. He's projecting onto Amane here, and also does the same to Es. He misses his children, but he doesn't treat Amane and Es in a respectful manner. Something that damages his relationship with the both of them.

(Molech)

Shidou: I don’t know what circumstances you face while guarding this prison nor the reason as to why you’re doing it, but I’m sure that it must take a toll on you emotionally as well. So, please do your best. [pats head] Es: [is shook] I see. Oh, I see now. So, that’s how it is. So, that’s how it’s gonna be. [deep breaths] Shidou: Hm? Es? Es: Don’t you dare… pat my head like that! [kicks] Shidou: [grunts] Please hold on for a second.

Shidou knows Es very little, he's intruding on their personal space here all because their a child that he pities. He's projecting his parental feelings onto them when they Clearly don't want it because he gets something out of it.

However that isn't all, Shidou Kirasaki is a man trapped in the past, unable to move on in any way. He's trapped in this eternal cycle of grief and regret.

He's constantly searching for a past he can't return to, a future that will remain static and unchangeable.

T1Q16: What is the definition of happiness? A: To be promised an unchanging tomorrow.

You might wonder how this relates to Saviors and for that I need to talk about:

The Girl Prince

It's hard not to talk about saviors in Milgram without mentioning Kotoko. Her story centers around the concept of heroism and what that really means and involves.

Her story covers a lot of what we discussed with Shidou. Kotoko believes herself to be more powerful than the people she considers weaklings, someone who knows better than them and can make the "right" decisions.

Kotoko: From the beginning I’ve never asked for your understanding! My actions, one by one, are bringing earth closer to peace. Useless Weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!

Kotoko also puts a lot of importance on power and usefulness. As seen above with "useless weaklings," and she also especially values physical power. How else are you supposed to protect people after all?

T1Q4: When did you start learning martial arts? A: In elementary school, perhaps. Without enough power, you can't enforce justice and do the right thing, can you?

Kotoko believes in a worldview with a hierarchical power structure, there are people who are Strong Useful People who protect the Weaker Useless People. Which reflects back into the ableism she exhibits with both Haruka and Mikoto.

Kotoko Birthday (12/15/2023)

Kotoko: Fufufu, fufufufufu. You’re thinking some outrageous things. To be frank, it’s abnormal.

Kotoko Birthday (12/15/2022)

Kotoko: Hm. The border between the two is getting a lot vaguer. Your entire existence is a crime. And I will see you’re punished for it.

While this attitude towards disability and mental disorders and illnesses come from how she views the world around her using the lens of strength and power. But that isn't the only thing.

Kotoko isn't as revolutionary as she portrays herself to be. While she believes that the world Needs to change, she still believes in the structures and hierarchies of it. Notably when she interacts with Es she doesn't criticize Milgram's practices, but instead joins up with them and uses Violent Force to keep people in line.

(I would mention something from her T2 VD here if it wasn't spoilers but there's a scene there that I find interesting, again I won't mention it but I do have it in my mind.)

Kotoko is someone who wants to put the Good People in charge and keep the Bad People away. She wants to anoint a "chosen hero," someone who's "good" in her eyes, someone who she can trust and believe in fully to make the "right" decisions. It's a worldview In Favor of keeping things the same, it's just that someone else should be running it.

Kotoko's worldview is notably immature, it's black and white and lacks a lot of nuance. But she's unwilling to change.

Once again, it's Easier to be a savior if the world is simple. There's no nasty complication getting in the way of the fantasy of being a hero. If you keep the world stuck in a static position then it's easier for it to aid in the Fantasy of being a savior.

And again, this behavior doesn't stem from a genuine want to help people, but a need to validate one's own identity, and to feel like they have power over something.

(Task)

Kotoko: Yes. I hate evil. Hurting innocent people with violence, taking away from others, killing people… I hate all this evil behaviour! The law being unable to judge some sins, there's too many of these cases in this world. Having clearly bullied and torturing the weak, but exploiting loopholes in laws, there's so many sinners who still live in such a carefree manner! Even though I want to change this world, I alone only have this much power.

It's important that things don't change, if they do then you'd have to acknowledge that the world is more complicated than they Want it to be. It's important that you will Always be the hero and that there are Always going to people who need saving.

Or, on the flipside, no matter what you do. You will stay the pitied and loved victim forever.

Good Boy Girl

Haruka Sakurai is a character who is Undeniably trapped in the past.

If with one click, and I can reset everything

He wants to become a good boy again, he wants to be given the same attention he was given in the past, and he projects his mother onto Es and Later Muu.

He's idealized the past so much that he's become submerged in it.

However while Haruka Wants to stay the victim, he wants to stay powerless and pitiful, he really isn't. A tension that often gets played with within his trial. Haruka is able to harm people and threatens Es in Trial 2. First with the idea that he can kill them and then with his life to Guilt Es into forgiving Muu.

I will keep on killing to be a good boy

Haruka Sakurai isn't Weak, but wants to be so he can be loved and adored by the people around him. Because if he isn't perceived as a threat but as someone that can be projected onto without any worry, then he could be loved.

I wanted to be a pitied and loved weakling

However, we do actually have an example of a character who Is Weak, and who is pitied and loved because of that. Who uses her failures and faults to gain power only for it to stumble out of her grasp time and time again because of it.

Muu Kusunoki Fails. A lot. I see a common interpretation of her after It's Not My Fault is Muu as the master manipulator, but if she was she wouldn't be here. She would still be the queen, eating honey like nothing was wrong.

But she isn't anymore, she fell from grace even before she attacked Rei.

Muu isn't Special, she isn't Powerful. But she is Pitiful, and she uses that pity to gain sympathy and affection from others. Muu Needs to stay the Victim if she wants to be cared for, so she always tries to position herself even when she hurts people.

(Crying B)

Muu: Hey… Prison guard, when you say “I”… Who are you talking about? Es: [breaking down] Muu: Prison guard? Es: [stumbles] Muu: Prison guard. What’s wrong? Prison guard! [shakes Es] Hey! Prison guard! Es: Shut up! Don’t touch me! Muu: [cries] You’re so cruel… I… Even though I was just worried about you… [cries again] I can’t take it anymore. I hate you, prison guard!

If she stays the victim and keeps people's sympathy on her, then she doesn't have to worry at all about people turning on her or hurting her. It's a Service, she acts pitiful, and the people who help her can feel good about doing a Good Thing.

Even if they do eventually turn on her, she can just play victim and hope they stop. Maybe attack their self-esteem as well to really make sure they don't think harder about it.

(Queen B)

M: But if you were like, “I won’t forgive you, Muu! Revenge is bad!,” then wouldn’t that imply that it’s also bad for me to bully someone back after they bullied me? Since we’ve all done something bad anyway, doesn’t that mean that I’ve not done anything wrong in the end? E: …I think I’m kinda… starting to get your point… maybe… M: … Warden-san, are you maybe not that intelligent, after all…?

She's using Es' feelings of uncertainty and lack of knowledge to manipulate them into doing what she wants, but she isn't that Good at it. Muu could keep more ground if she continued to play more passive and timid. But instead she acts more aggressive and carefree.

The thing about Muu's strategy is that if She Stops Being Pitiful, it Stops Working. Muu can't let herself be Happy or Confident or otherwise because then she won't be pitiful enough to people. If she does, she gets knocked off her throne and sent back to square one.

Muu is a deeply cyclical character. She cycles from pitiful to queenly and back over and over again. Not only that but when everything is structured through the lens of who's stronger and who's weaker, then you are encouraged to push other people down for your own gain.

Her environment exists as a place where healthy relationships are Discouraged. Because if a relationship doesn't give you anything then you have no use for it.

Muu: Isn’t it exactly because he’s my friend? Isn’t friendship about letting your friends do the things they want? … Are you about to tell me “that’s not what friendship is”? Then what is friendship? You’re together because it’s beneficial for everyone involved, aren’t you?

Conclusion

There's a lot of ways to read these dynamics I think. Tsumi brings up the Karpman's Triangle over here and archivalofsins is working on a post based around TIV. And I can't really put every single facet of a character into this dynamic neatly.

But that's also kinda the point. As stated above, the lack of change and simplicity is important to this dynamic. Its resistant to change and resistant to growth. And any sort of attempt to function outside of it is a threat to it. These mindsets and hierarchies are dangerous because there strict and unchanging, and the deeper your in, the harder it is to get out.

The roles being played here turn people into one dimensional archetypes rather than People. Their motivations, circumstances and personality disappear to fit a convenient narrative of saviors and victims.

It's also much easier to become powerless than to gain power. Muu tried and failed to gain power, while Fuuta was punished and left powerless. It's not a balanced dynamic at all, it lifts up a few people and leaves the rest to rot. But the people who are “stronger” now have to somehow fulfill a role with standards too high to reach. No one wins here, because it's so highly destructive and damaging, and I find the way Milgram interrogates it to be really intriguing.

#undescribed #meta #milgram #GOD this is so fucking good #I can also see some of the rgu influence as well 👀

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