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dream2074interviews · 5 years

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Zoe Interview Transcript

F: First can you just introduce yourself, like where are you from how old are you

Z: so um my name is zoe its always a weird question when someone asks me where im from because most of the time its like “what are you?” instead of where are you from

N: yeah i get that

Z: so um I’m half british and half ugandan and um i was actually born in botswana where my dad was teaching at a university there and then we moved to england when i was 4 and i lived in cambridge for like 8 months and then my parents were like this is way too expensive and the moved to a little place called huntingdon which is 20 minutes outside of cambridge and half an hour from peterborough so thats where im from and now im in london after studying a fashion and textiles degree at LCF

N: how old were you when you moved to here?

Z: I’d just turned 20 cos i did an art foundation course which w- and now that i think about it im so happy i came at that age because i had friends that came when they were 18 straight away to uni to london to a new city and i couldn’t have done it

N: really?? Z: I felt like i was too young at 20 to be in london N: Why??

Z: Just I dont know cos like suddenly when your with you parents and everything’s safe and you’re in this small town and blah blah blah and then being.. you’re thrown into this city also i didnt really like like the first two years of my course so it was a bit of an overwhelming experience and then yeah

N: oh god i feel that Z: but yeah im happy its over now F: How do you feel about living in this society Z: In...? F: in london

Z: in london um when i first moved here i was super excited like for me i always knew that i wanted something more than Huntingdon where i was cos its quite- i love my friends there and everything but its very stand still, nothings really happening nothings really going anywhere and i always knew i wanted something more i knew i wanted- i wanted to keep exploring and travelling so when i came to london i was so excited that theres stuffhappening all the time i can literally go to galleries blah blah blah meet new and interesting people um yeah i loved it and.. i .. it was also really good in the sense that back home i didn’t really feel like i fit in um there wasn’t really that many people into art

um... i looked very different from everybody else and all the things i hated when i was in huntingdon suddenly when i was in london everyone was like omg this is amazing can i shoot you? and can i do this and i was like ok? like this is cool like this is nice that all of the things that over the years I’ve started to hate about myself... i needed it then cos it helped me to just be like.. live your life you know and just be like just chill out you know like things are ok you dont need to be blahblah.. sorry i lost my train of thought now

N: thats cool, but like... has that stayed with you during your time in london like are you still, do you still feel like that or,

Z: still feel like?

N: do you still feel like you need to be part of this like everything constantly moving everything happening or

Z: oh yeah i do definitely when i slow down its like oh god whats going on, even though i complain all the time about commuting and stuff like that i wouldn’t pick anywhere else cos im so inspired every day when i walk around like people here are like everyones here trying to hustle and like do their thing get their work done and that drives me cos back home everyones in a different mindset they’re just living for the next day really

N: content with a 9-5 Z: yeah! N: yeah i get it

Z: content with a 9-5 but then spending all their weekend like spending all their money just getting... messed up... for no reason! like i look at them and im like it must be such a depressing..

N: yeah... yeah i totally get it like im from birmingham so like exactly the same mentality like no-one like everyones like happy being within this /thing/ like everyones locked in doing the same thing every day getting fucked on the weekend and then like going back again and yeah like here everyones kind of like here trying to do something BIG

Z: yeah yep

N: I feel like its cos London... like all the major cities in the world are like not really part of that country they are but theyre sort of.. theyre more part of their own country so theyre all connected theyre all more international thinking

Z: literally! N: Its so much better

Z: its so true like you know when brexit was happening like they were like cant we just make london separate because theres so many people from so many different places and thats what i love like yeah my hometown.. it was more diverse than a lot of places a lot of towns in the UK so i was around lots of-i was around people of colour- i think that would have messed me up even more if there was nobody of colour and it would have been just white.. but i think it was just more boys so obviously i wasn’t going to hang out with them

so for me a lot of my time was spent with one type of girl and thats what i then internalised as “oh i need to be like this and i need to look like that and anyway its just stupidness like when you were younger are youre like “oh boys aren’t going to blah blah blah and you’d be like well if i look like this and i talk like this and i act like this then ill be fine” so i feel like it was a very good move of me moving to london it made me realise... like why are you why are you thinking you need to be like that when you’re absolutely fine likeee just get on with it!

N: yeah its true! I feel like just moving in general like even if you dont move to london like you just have to move somewhere else like you lose all of that perspective of like what everyone else has been telling you and you get another group of people... and i think when you’re young as well youre just so soft-even if you’re like strong as yourself- like im very stubborn and like quite but like it affects you! you get moulded

Z: it really does! N: it breaks you down

Z: and you dont realise how much it does until you suddenly have this breakdown and you’re thinking about it and all these things and you’re like oh god ok that really explains that and like

N: sometimes it takes a while for your train of thought to like Z: kick in yeah N: and like be aware of it! Z: to catch up with you yeah

F: What do you love about yourself right now, how you feel you're the same or different as a woman?

Z: So uhh i im more comfortable in myself yes 100% yeah but during uni i- like i said before i’d been struggling my whole life like i had a bit of a breakdown in second year where i was just like i cant keep up with this work or the work that im producing just doesn’t seem to be what theyre wanting and im not very good at talking to people so i just kept it all inside and then i ended up just yeah... i had to go home for a bit i had to blahblahblah and throughout that period i realised i had a really bad problem with anxiety... just communicating with people like sometimes i come across as a really confident person and i can talk to anyone then theres other times where im just like i dont know how to have a normal conversation with you like im trying to and then i realise im starting to not make sense and that can so um yeah i am better but especially after uni im like im having a bit of like identity problems and stuff like that

N: placeless-ness Z: yes placeless-ness, definitely N: yea i totally get you, everything you just said i’m like YEP

Z: yeah i think the worst thing is when i find myself talking to someone and im like wow i cant even hold a conversation what is going on with me like- and then you can see other people are just like ok... maybe thats just me though maybe im being silly but yeah thats one of the problems with myself now that im trying to work on its my anxiety just being like hey zoe like why are you stressin like theres no point stressing like there literally no. point. at all. i say this to myself a hundred times a day but yet here i am like

N: stressin out!

Z: yeah, so yeah thats i feel like once i get grounded in what i wanna do thats gonna help out a lot when im like this is where im supposed to be im happy im fine. i mean its better than it was when i was a child i was very sen conscious i never thought like cos i was this massive 6 ft 15 year old like with like huge hair and everyone had like perfect straight hair n that was just yeah i was just always the different one and i hated being the different one. I wished, because of my anxiety i wished i could just be normal and like in the corner hidden away but yeah..

N: its good though like, i feel like now you seem to be more aware of everything so its like putting things in to perspective helps a lot like all those things that make you different like you start to just appreciate them and realise that yeah this is kinda cool like its shit, its shit being normal like why would you wanna be average i cant take it

Z: I think- it sounds funny but one of the things that hit me about my appearance- i used to hate my freckles because i thought it made me look dirty blahblahblah but when i came to london and you know there was- i feel like when i first moved here as well i was probably everyone was like ohhh freckles, cos you know you can get those freckle pencil from topshop!

N: yeah yeah!

Z: and one of my housemates in first year in halls every morning would draw on freckles so seeing that made me be like i need to be more thankful because these are natural like yeah im just gonna stop caring

N: ugh wholesome it’s so much better and wholesome way of thinking!

F: So how do you prefer to connect with other people now like do you prefer to communicate like straightforward or whats your way of communicating with society?

Z: i feel like right now im just a lot more straightforward, open, after i had to go home for ages i hated being like oh im just away for a bit i found it just a bit like ooh uhh not satisfying but more, it was easier to just be like look I’ve had to go home for a bit, I’ve been in hospital, im recovering, im gonna come back and it was better for me because then people knew exactly what was going on and they didn’t care they wanted to help which was better than me just faffing about so for me now i just try to be more open about everything if im having a tough day im just like look im having a tough day like this is whats happened blah blah blah i dont want to dwell on this i want to move on blahblahblah and if i wanna talk to people im gonna be like hey lets meet up lets do something so im just a lot more forward whereas before i just was trying to please people and i was just pussyfooting around everything and i wouldn’t get to the point and yeah

N: yeah i get that, i had a mental breakdown in likeee may this year and its because like i was just keeping everything in and it was its so difficult cos people like expect you to be a certain way especially if they like if they like semi know you

Z: YEAH

N: they think that thats you as a whole but really you’ve got all this shit going on and i was like look, im dying, im going to therapy now

Z: exactly, thats the hard thing though when people see you smiling all the time. i dont know ah its so sad but half the time its just fake like im just trying to get through my day the easiest i can so i can get home and you know

N: but its so much better you know when you’re sad to actually be sad so its like cos you dont have the pressure of being- the lie- the performance- the perfomance on you. The performance kills you

Z: yeah it was the performance and because i was so sad and i let it go on for 3 or 4 years i mean my mum kinda knew that i wasn’t happy and stuff like that and yeah.. that was so nice to be like yeah i don’t have to act anymore because that was another thing i was like it would make me hate myself, cos i was like you’re so fake youre this that and then it would be this daily thing of me- oh my god I’m gonna cry- it would be this daily thing of me just being like you’re a piece of shit like why are you even trying like whats the point. So for me to just be like no this is whats happening and this is whats going on it was just yeah, so much nicer to just sort of let go

N: yep yeah i feel that it’s difficult

F: Do you want to share a part of yourself with other people or do you prefer to hide yourself more?

Z: um so im a lot more cautious with who i share myself with, and I’m a lot more picky in a sense, and i know that sounds bad but i think you have to be picky with the people you surround yourself with and I’ve reduced it, because beforehand you’d have those friends that you weren’t really friends with you’re just like acquaintances and they were friends of a friend like you felt like you had to keep up so now that all of that is gone its just easier for me to be 100% honest with those few people and yeah it just you feel a lot more together for a start but when it comes to interacting with the world i just think to myself- like i wanna be a happy person in order to just because in london everyone is so moody all the time and i don’t think that people understand that you saying one horrible thing to someone can completely ruin their day cos its happened to me before when someones like pushed me in a queue or just said “move” or “hurry up” or something and I’ve already been in such a shit mood that its just added to the top of it and I’ve been like right I’m done like so for me its really important to hold myself and be like how i’d want people to treat me, yeah every day everyone is going through so much i just think its so horrible when people are mean or just impatient

N: its just not productive is it, where are we getting with it Z: yeah exactly

N: I get what you mean about the friendships i feel like we have a certain amount of energy and like when you have acquaintances and stuff or friends that are sort of fake like you end up giving if youre a sensitive person, you give them a lot of your energy and you don’t get that back theres this imbalance and that hurts

Z: IT HURTS

N: yeah it drains you

Z: thats the thing i was giving so much of myself spreading myself so thin. Whether that be oh yeah ill come help you with this and that and then i’d have no time to myself and i was running myself down and i wasn’t eating or sleeping blah blah blah all for other people! which yeah ok thats good but i wasn’t thinking like wait zoe you need to kind of look after yourself too cos thats one thing when youve got mental health issues you go through a while i think of not thinking about yourself, and then also sometimes people will call you selfish so its hard to remember like you need to take care of yourself

N: yeah you have to take care of yourself because like if you don’t then you wont be able to like your energy is precious like you need to nurture it with the people who are gonna give it to you back and like it should grow always

Z: exactly, the people who are there for you in the long run

N: like you said like your mom and everything, family and that kind of thing its such a special thing if you have a good relationship, its like so solid and it wont ever fade like you’ll do anything for each other. I think people have that with friends as well but then like theres certain kinds of friends where its just like theyre not gonna give you that back, and they’ll keep taking as much as they can because they only see that one side of you where you’re smiley and stuff. i feel like they don’t stretch their minds enough to understand that you’ve got this whole other world going on

Z: and also sometimes.... back to the thing about my mum. although she knew that i struggled a bit, i didn’t tell her the full story because in my head- because my mum is a really strict christian and um whenever i come to her with something she’d just be like shall we just pray about it and i’d be like its not...

N: I can relate!!

Z: I’d be like bless you but right now its not gonna do anything for me like, I’m telling you i wanna kill myself and you’re telling me lets pray to jesus.. it was frustrating and it was... hard and it did isolate me even more because i was like well who can i talk to?! and then i was like well stop being silly and when i got sent to hospital and i just told my mum everything she was like- she still is now like are you praying are you doing this and I'm like erm

N: it's difficult with religious parents because for them it's like the ultimate form of care they believe like that is what is going to help you and there only putting that forward because that is what they want for you they've got so much love for you it’s really difficult I went through that with my parents

Z: and you get to a point where you're like is there anyone even listening to me?

........(lost her train of thought here) F: so do you enjoy sharing part of yourself with people?

Z: when I can find people, where we’re on the same wavelength, we've got the same vibe, the same vision, we’re not wasting each other time, when are being those people where oh you read my text and you didn’t reply back. When you find people that you just get on with each other and you understand each other like if I can't get back to you right now know that I will do like I'm not ignoring you

N: I Actually had a conversation with my friend about this at like 3 AM he was like I've turned my read receipts on like my real friends will know I've read your thing and I will get back to you and then the other ones if they complain about it like why haven't you replied to me just leave them.

Z: literally I feel like people got so consumed by it atone point even I was like oh my god they read my message blah blah. So like when you find people you're excited to talk to it's so nice to be like let's just..... yeah so for me I love doing that but it has to be specific people who aren't here to mess around my time and just take things from me and like we respect each other it's a good working friendship

F: so what's your biggest difficulty that you overcome during your life? And your biggest story that you want to share.

Z: it's really strange when I talk about things because I have such a nice upbringing and my parents always in my life for like support and stuff like that.... One of the main difficult things that really hurt me and haunt me and I actually blocked it out for like a good chunk of my life..... A Family friend sexually abused me when I was between the ages of eight and 10 and it was horrible it was horrible that I didn't understand what was going on then so like I didn't make much of it I didn't realise how much of an effect it had on me growing up like I would cover myself up Head to toe like I'd wear baggy clothes I didn't want anyone to see the shape of my body I didn't hug people I was very like- people would be like oh you're very awkward because I wasn't into hugging I wouldn't be that warm I'd have to observe you first I didn't realise it at first both because I didn't want to let anyone into hurt me. And that was another thing that like in first year it was as if my brain and my body had shut it out and then I got to uni and like bam I started getting all these flashbacks I started to be like how fucking dare this person do something to me like that. It just fucked with me yeah really factor to me because even after that older men have always been interested in me even when I was like a 13 -year-old child teachers in school would always act differently with me it was just a bit like I don't like thinking about it I went to a phase where I was like is that all men want from me just sex

N: well, men are trash, it's not you Z: but then that's the thing though I thought it was my fault I thought I was to blame for it

N: but that's when is with anxiety everything just turns back on you you are literally like I'm the one to blame for everything for all of this misfortune, it's really difficult I feel like as well because you can be the most logical person in the world and you can see it as how it it really is but there is that Demon inside of you that's like

Z: it keeps telling you yeah

N: it's horrific

Z: with me it's just being like zoe you were eight like there is nothing you were doing... I still struggle with it especially when it comes the meeting potential boyfriends and stufflike that because I'm just like awkward like in the back of my head I’m like they just want sex, that's all they want. Then I can be a bitch to people because I put up a guard and I'm really rude and really defensive it's just because I'm scared

N: which is totally valid, completely valid. And I think people who are worth it will realise it, like they will work Z: to get through it yeah

N: and anyone that doesn’t, just put them in the bin

Z: yeah it took me awhile to realise that because yes so in first year, god everything happened in first year with first year I came to London and I I had my little ho phase, I think it's because in Huntingdon no one was really looking at me it was only really old men that would do that and I came to London like people my age were showing an interest in me and this was new so I ended up getting into relationships and seeing people that were trash and I didn't realise it until I was halfway through so I was like oh god I've made the biggest mistake and it took me till second year to be like stop like what are you doing you've got to focus on yourself first and be careful with people because although they act nice at first it could all change and yeah so I try not to dwell on it too much I used to wake up every morning and just be a bit blergh it's hard to just get over somethings, it has gotten better but every now and then there can be something that just triggers it and when it gets like that I just need to be like I'm here for a reason someone is trying to test me today

N: but it's important not to like, like it's not about just getting over something it doesn't just click and like everything is okay it such a slow thing but then slow things SO much better because it's solid

Z: I forget that every day I forget it and I'm like I wish I could just be okay that you got to realise a takes a while, but I'm an impatient person nine

N: you'll get there like you seem to be very reflective person I feel like that's the best thing that you can be

Z: the best thing has been going to therapy N: it's so good Z: so so good F: is it where can i go?

N: go at UAL its free!

Z: yeah I went to a lady at UAL but it wasn't like therapy she was a mentor but i could talk to her about anything, she'd be like that's probably the reason you can't do this and she'd help me just like Connect it

N: theyre like detectives innit

Z: because before that when you try and do it you make crazy assumptions, but when somebody else tells you it's a lot better and you're like okay this makes sense I'm allowed to be sad I'm allowed to hurt I'm allowed to feel all these things by car just let it consume me and I have to think about what I want from from moving on

N: my therapist was like, she let me talk about all of my bullshit and like I refuse to like believe that anything bad that happens to me is like worth me feeling shit nothing is really attacking me or whatever and then at the end of my rampage she was just like nabila; call it what it is, its trauma. I was like oh my god that's a strong word

Z: yeah cos again when you're that smiley friendly person you don't really want to think about all that stuff and you don't always want to bring it up to someone and be like- because I don't know about you but when we grew up I feel like we grew up quite tough and we just get on with our shit.

N: yeah emotions aren't a thing

Z: i'll compare it to my boyfriend is American and he talks about his feelings all the time and I'm just like we are different and we were bought up so differently. Like I was brought up to just be like you're okay crack on get on with it it's not the best way and then sometimes I talk about my emotions too much and I feel like I'm being a drama queen or something and then I'm like stop hating yourself

N: I didn't realise it but when I was growing up I internalised this thing where I thought sensitivity was a weakness but the thing is I didn't see it in other people as a weakness I was always quite encouraging of it but when it came to myself I was like why are you being such a pussy why are you being like this and then someone said to me when I was having my tough time she just said to me nabila you're just sensitive you just feel things, I was like oh is that what that is? I didn't think I was sensitive

Z: it's horrible because you think you're weak and stuff but you just feel things a lot more

N: now I feel like my brain has reframed it and sensitivity’s such a strength to have. Because you can bond with people so easily if you want to not a lot of people have that which is kind of sick. that’s another thing that my therapist said to me, she was like not a lot of people have empathy you're quite lucky to have it and I was like “but I'm hurting”. She was like “no no is going to be alright is going to come to your advantage don't worry”

Z: literally now it's not even weakness I've mess only nice people that I can have conversations with and connect with them yeah I don't know I can’t see how it could be weakness

N: that's the thing though with sensitivity I feel like you can meet people and have these surface level chat where you chat about just normal shit but there is people that you meet can you talk about things in such a deep level and that's that crazy connection

Z: yeah and that's the difference like earlier on I was saying how I can't chat to some people I feel like with our generation at the moment as well as the industry we work in we're always looking for the next new cool thing who's got this who's got that sometimes

I feel like when you talk to people they are just judging you like oh have you got it... this is the word that just like my tutors would be like it's not quite it it hasn't got it it was always going round my head that I wasn't it

N: what is this it what is this perfection that everyone’s striving for

Z; yeah I'd always be like that but then I'd be like it doesn't matter if I can't have a conversation with those people that I don't even want to be around

N: yeah was having a conversation about this with my brother and he was talking about having ideals and stuff he was like I don't mean perfection but I said that literally the definition of ideal people shouldn't have these preconceived notions of what an ideal is then because then you always striving to something that you're probably not going to find I think you should just look at person or get to know a person and register what there and find the goodness in that and that's how you bond

Z: yeah exactly that's how you bond, yeah I literally agree so much I feel like so many people feel like they're going to change someone yeah let's adapt let me just completely change you and I'm like.... Yeah I don't want to

N: what's the point? how long are you going to be my life?

Z: exactly especially in London people aren’t in your life that long it's not long periods of time

N: and relationships don't have to be like that it's okay but you're always going to be your own life so you have to the most stable thing

Z: and that was lesson I taught myself like focus on your stability and are you going as a person rather than what anybody all anyone else thinks

N; what is the best thing that you can do really for your relationships with anybody else if you're solid then that's that then you can figure out how much energy you are going to give them you know?

F: so where do you find your energy and your strengths so where can you find your energy to support you?

Z: erm that's hard for me I think it's just productivity if I make sure I keep myself busy keep myself working and motivated that's what seems to work best for me even if I not working towards something and I'm not feeling very confident if I just do something for it I often then it just helps me get to get back into a mindset of being like yeah you can do something although not everything is going to be amazing you can just keep doing it and then my mum my mum is another one that just keeps me going just because her life is crazy and the fact that she's just so happy everyday like every day

F: me too Z: I'm just like your amazing N: where did she get her happiness from do you know?

F: she’s just simple, I have the same thing N: is it just the little things? Z: yeah

N: I've been trying to do that you know I was talking to my friend the other day we were talking about going through shit and how Life just seems to drag you down well she was talking about that and I was like look this is why go on about dumb shit like when the sunlight hits a building I'm like listen everyone stop everyone needs to absorb this

Z: yeah but I don't know how he does it everyday

N: I mean it's probably you if you don't know what is it probably is you

Z: ah but I feel like I’ve caused her so much stress

N: I don't think parents ever see like that though, I think something just happens when you give birth to another human being

Z: yeh! I have thought about this though right I just feel Like going through the whole thing of giving birth to something and then holding it in your hands I feel like you'll never stop loving like you can't ever

N: yeah I don't see how you can is literally a part of you and you're out here like breathing she is like yES I DID THAT

Z: yeah she keeps me going it's crazy N: mums are fabulous

F: yeah that's why I was doing this project in the beginning because of my mother like when I'm feeling upset or depressed I feel like my mum is always happy about things and she's just so positive all the time like everything is simple in her world but in mine everything is so difficult

Z: yeah definitely

N: we gets quite locked into our own worlds though and don’t realise that theres this whole.... Like ultimately nothing really matters apart from our happiness Z: yeah its just getting there, cuz we all know this it just

N: you get lost in it innit, its like you’re spinning around, you cant focus on the one thing, thats what happens all the time with everything whether you're doing a project or whatever you just completely lose your bearings but once you lock onto something everything is okay

Z: and that feeling it's such a good feeling when you're like actually I can do this I'm going to places yeah realising that you can do it

N: and that's my mums are there for they're just like yes you can do it I watched you learn to walk

Z: they just know they know N: I'm going to have to call my mom after this and tell her I love her Z: she hears all the time from me though im like I'm so sorry I love you so much F: what do you think of relationships and love

Z: very complicated, I found it so hard to be able to be comfortable with someone and just be my weird self again I just think I was looking to fill a whole with anyone and anything and I really been treated badly by some not very nice people and when I look back and it just makes me angry but then I'm like it's a learning experience you were young everyone has to go through this but now looking to the future I just want to find someone who were on the same page we Wanna work together in a functioning relationship functioning is the words we look after each other we care for each other we listen to each other like we've got each others backs I don't want you to tell me you love me every day and get me gifts I just want you to I don't know I just want to know they've got my back in situations for me that's just the biggest thing being able to trust somebody and I feel like sometimes I feel like our idea of love is so twisted like the way some of my friends talk to me about what they want I'm just like that so far away from why do you want that yeah I I've lost my train of thought.... It does make me sad though you know when you're 15 and everyone's telling you don't worry about it now and you still go through it all I wish I could go back and talk to myself and say you're fine mate just keep going just carry on you don't need anybody

N: it is difficult because I feel like everything when you're growing up all the movies all the books you read the music you listen to everything that everyone talks about it's like you have another half of yourself to find

F: its so true

Z: so true, I thought that for the longest time, I was like well for me to be complete I have to find somebody else it's not enough to be by yourself

N: it's super hard to get out of that way of thinking

Z: especially when your eyes have been opened a little bit but then you talk to your friend and they are the exact opposite they're like oh I need a man blah blah blah

N: that's the small town mentality jumping out

Z: I don't know about you but back home because it's like so small everyone just goes out with the same people so it's kind of incestuous and that was another reason why I was like I can't go back because I'll end up going with somebody's cousin all brother and I can’t

N: it's difficult to find someone with the same like that deeper level of connection rather than surface both difficult because everyone approaches any kind of relationship with the surface stuff you can't just go straight into depth it'll be a bit weird

Z: haha yeah so what do you think about life?

N: yeah we should just run these interviews we’ll start dating thing for next project... It really should be really easy to talk about that stuff straightaway it's hard because sometimes you're like in the past like back in the day things were different- but it wasn't really was it? I suppose it's never really be easy

Z: and even now I feel like the way we are shown couples you're supposed to look good together, do amazing things together and it's just like yeah you two can both look Peng and you can be like in Australia riding jetskis whatever but you might hate each other that's the worst thing and some people are like all this is the best thing I'm going to get so I'm just going to settle and that's the worst

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dream2074interviews · 5 years

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Diana Interview

F: first can you introduce yourself a bit what's your nationality what's your name how old are you?

D: do you want the detail or do you want the superficial... N: the detail.. As much as you want to give

D: so I'm Diana I'm British but I'm also Brazilian because I was born in Brazil and I grew up in Belgium and I came to England when I was 18 and I've lived here since then

N: that's amazing D: don't I look Brazilian, I'm sure you knew I was Brazilian

N: that's so cool, I love it when that happens I totally didn't expect that, I should have learnt in my life to not assume certain things by now

F: how do you feel about living in London about living in this society?

N: so when I was 18 and I came to England at University I was originally going to go back and live in Belgium because I spoke French and I learned Dutch at university and to work in Belgium we need to have French and Dutch but when I came to London I realised I couldn't go back to Belgium because London is such a great place to live there's so much to do is so much fun no matter what your interests I think that there is something for everybody here so I really like living in London

F: so what do you think about being a woman living in London?

D: er I think... in what sense?

F: how do you define yourself as a woman

D: I define myself as a person so not really, I don't think I really I don't know I don't think of it like that

N: when you lived in Belgium did you live in a quiet place or was it a city as well?

D: while Brussels is quite small and we lived in on the outskirts of Brussels we can take public transport to go into the centre it's not a very exciting place you know London there is the theatre the museums there is the cinemas there are clubs there are bars there's so much you can do and historically to there’s gorgeous buildings different parts of London that are like different villages, each one has its own character that's what makes it so attractive

N: were you quite active in engaging all of this stuff like going to the club in visiting all of the galleries or was it just walking around in knowing that they're all there

D: yeah I used to go when I was younger I used to go to the clubs, I had a membership so before t Tate modern existed, it was the Tate, which is now Tate Britain and I had a subscription and I would go on Sunday morning with my sister we would go before it opened so if you were remember you could go before it opened to the public so regularly we would go to tate on Sunday morning er go to the theatre, one winter I got us I got tickets for the English National Opera so we went to see all the operas one winter but they were the cheap seats we sat right up in the attic but yeah I tried to do everything

N: but in Brussels it was quite quiet life

D: just very different it wasn't so open and welcoming as here and there were the linguistic tensions whereas is in England I'm British I speak English so it's much easier to fit in although when I first came to England it was much more traditional I would say so I remember going to a drinks party and no one would talk to me because I haven't been introduced

N: that sounds very proper

D: Doesnt it? It was so weird because you going trying talk to people and they wouldn't it was very strange but other than that I really liked it here

N: it's welcoming isn't it London is like I feel like all of these international cities everyone's got a place here everyone is at home because everyone is different there is no reason to not fit in

D: there is no prejudice generally, there is obviously specific prejudice but overall I would say living somewhere like London you're right it's more international City

N: it's beautiful I agree

D: and I think it's getting less and less sexist maybe 20 years ago if you asked me that I would have had a different view it's more in more you're treated as a person rather than as a man or a woman

N: interesting

F: yes interesting, so how do you usually connect other people so what's your way of socialising?

D: so I've got lots of different groups of friends probably like all of us, Friends from different parts of your life so I have friends from before I got married I've got friends here from when I was at school in Belgium so she moved here so I've got her, I've got friends that my husband and I have from when we got married I've got friends from my children school Friends because of where I live and then I try and do I get involved with the local community so a when my kids were at school most of the time I was on one of the committees, so you get to know people that way and then I was very into cricket so I was on the cricket club committee and then for a while I was the school governor so I would say that's all how I connect

N: that's amazing like for me that sounds like a lot a lot of circles a lot of stuff to like maintain

D: they dont-because some of the people we've known for along time so you see them from time to time

N: do you find the connection is still there?

D: yes so if you like someone you'll find that always be Friends with them so you might only see them 2 or 3 times a year but you still have our friendship there

N: that's sounds beautiful. I have that with some childhood friends maybe one or two but everything else seems so fast paced now like everything moves so like relationships are temporary not that they're not meaningful but sometimes they just don't last

D: the connectivity goes sometimes doesn't it N: yeah it's hard to keep going D: it must be quite difficult for you Faye because you're new to London aren’t you

F: yeah I am I need to get used here and also to the language because its quite difficult but I quite enjoy everything. So how do you feel about relationships, what do you think of motherhood?

D: motherhood? It never ends. So I love my kids I have three kids, I've got a girl a daughter who is 27 and two boys who are 24 and I thought that when they went to university that would be that but they all came home to live at home but my daughter and won't my son is now living East London. One of my son still live at home. We went on holiday and my daughter came with us and one of my sons met us there, so I think that there is a very strong family bond which has really surprised me

N: really? Why?

D: I don't have that with my father I don't have that with my parents a strong bond so I've been quite surprised by how much they enjoy coming home

N: maybe he didn't put any pressure on it, if it's not the same with you and your dad you’ve been quite relaxed about it just happened naturally

D: yeah yeah I don't know N: that's lovely though D: I think it's really hard being a parent though N: in what sense

D: it's physically quite challenging I worked through all of their childhood except for 1 1/2 years I think it is quite challenging because there are societal expectations there are friends expectations light from parents at the school there are expectations from the school and then you as a parent have your expectations they've got to find away to navigate through it so can be quite emotionally tiring to bring up children to keep them honest make sure there enjoying life I think one of my big goals I had a nanny at one point and I said to her my daughter is this joyous child I said to her I want to grow up being

joyous and she looked at me like I was completely bonkers but I thought well that's your role as a parent is to make sure your Child retains their enthusiasm for life you know that joy you see in five year olds you want them to have it when there 25 if you can possibly do that so I think as a parent that's the hardest thing making sure your kids don't get ground down by the world around them so we can do as well as they can possibly do.... You both have experienced that so you know what I'm talking about don't you? You know what I'm saying about how the pressure from outside you can lose your personality you can lose your Joy of life and it's trying to keep that in your children I think that the hardest thing as a parent

N: do you find that your kids like so you did quite a lot for them you said its quite draining do you find that they give you back

D: it was when they were quite younger now it's not so much because they're all independent now... one of my boys when he was 17 so was doing his A-levels 17 or 18 I said to him so your grown-up now do you need me to come home every day after work or can I go out now and he said no we'd still like you to come home to know you're there that's the kind of thing I mean they don't necessarily want to talk to you they don't necessarily want to interact with you but they want to know that you're there

N: yeah I get that

F: what do you think of love and relationships?

D: what do I think of it? I think it's really important

F: how can you describe how important it is to you

D: I think you can't take it for granted. I think you have to work at it. You can't assume it's always going to be there. I don't know how to describe Faye it's a very difficult question

N: so what was it like when you first met your partner? D: Um. What was it like?

N: did it start off as a crush? D: No, he really liked me more than the other way around and then he went away I thought oh actually quite miss him now... we just got on... he was the first person I met who didn’t so I went out with a lot of people who I found out bored me after six months.... And he didn't try and control me so I think a lot of relationships that I had with men maybe because it was along time ago they try to control me so I had to conform and behave in a certain way and I really hated that

N: it's still a same now men haven't changed D: is it? F: yeah

D: I didn't like that so so he was the first person I met who encourage me to do well at work he really wanted me to do well at work and I say stuff to him like I haven't been promoted and he'd say well go and do it go tell them why you should be promoted... he

really didn't try and control me and he has lots of interests which means it's not a boring relationship and we both have our own interests

N: so the girl we interviewed before we ended up talking about men quite a bit and it turns out our generation are quite disillusioned with the idea of finding a partner it just seems completely impossible, do you remember ever feeling like that when you were growing up always it just not anything you thought about?

D: I think expectations were different then because now I think you know with me too and all that everyone now feel that they should be treated differently don't they and I guess women have moved on but men are having trouble coping with the fact that they're not as important.... So when our holiday with my daughter and she has similar views as you because she said the patriarchy is terrible you know she banged on about a quite a bit so yeah I think it's an issue for you guys you feel that you should just be treated the same as men and that men should treat you differently to the way I guess (?) So I can understand why your delusion with the idea of men

N: it's very difficult, it's hard to find someone you can trust that you can bond with that if you give them apart of yourself they aren't just going to take it and run you know or like take it and break it... it's very difficult... when my parents talk about how they got together it seems that is completely different world everyone seemed to trust each other quite easily

D: I think that's what happens when people have very defined places in society, so you kind of knew if I am a woman I'll be at home with the kids and if I man I'll be out. I mean it's not typical but it's not uncommon is it have you read the milkman? It's based in Northern Ireland and it's kind of this thing where women never question anything and that kind of how it was I guess for your parents, I was a bit more subversive

N: I'm pretty sure my parents thought they were rebelling at time and then they've just falling into the normal pattern

D: the triple pattern which is what we did as well so I had to look after the kids I did work as well I chose schools for them I basically did everything I went to parents evenings...

N: I think there's a different view of it... you want to do that for your kids don't you but I think now there's a lot of pressure upon women to have another view of their lives and that that is not enough that's not worthy of life

D: but I think is it would've been better if my husband had been more involved I think it's a partnership and I think that they should both be involved but then I realised he couldn't do it for whatever reason so I thought well I'm going to enjoy it

N: that's a great way of thinking though it's great because you work to make sure it didn't fall apart actually put that in rather than just be like it's not working out

D: well I just did I didn't want to be resentful. I didn't want my kids to think I was being resentful with them because that's how it would've come across to them and I thought it was really important for them to know that I wanted to be with them it would've been better if my husband has been even so I wanted to be there with them so I did you make that decision that I wouldn't complain about it

N: is your husband English?

D: oh yes he's English

N: do you find any culture clashes between you or was everything quite easy

D: I think it was more opinion clashes which I think happens in all relationships you have a difference of opinion about things

F: so how do you feel about sharing a part of yourself with other people like sharing your stories with other people

D: I'm doing it with you now Faye F: yeah I know but normally if you met a stranger or someone in society

D: if I trust them it's fine by think it's like that with everyone isn't it you wouldn't talk about your life to anybody

N: how do you decide how to trust somebody

D:um

N: is it just an instinct thing, intuition?

D: yeah it's feeling if I got to know someone quite well and as you talk you feel more comfortable yeah I think it's the same for everybody isn't it

N: yeah I dunno there's a lot of complex humans out there some people just lock-up and don't let anyone ever in I dunno I'm trying not to assume any more I've come across too many different kinds of people

F: for us it's more complicated because we think a lot in our generation we always feel like

N: we are all very anxious

F: we're all anxious about relationships things happening around us so I want to know

D: I think everyone always feels anxious about relationships I don't think it ever ends

N: that's not hopeful

D: you know none of us want to feel like we've missed out I don't if it's any different view I don't know do I feel anxious?

F: where is the source of your strength for living positively

D: I think it's just.... If I wasn't positive I'd be really really depressed... have you ever been through that?

N: yes every day of my life

D: February I get so depressed every year February comes and I sort of feel quite down because its very cold it's still quite dark, I sort of have this period of time this week where I'm feeling just awful so I say right pull yourself together I think I have to be busy when I'm not busy Faye that's when I find life tough

N: that makes sense

D: when you sit around all day and you don't have any goals all challenges then I think it is yeah I would say is that being busy

N: you seem quite conscious of that though you know yourself quite well then to have figure that out and prepared for it I think for us we get quite overwhelmed... we forget where we are even though we might know like you said like in the winter things will get bad again we get so caught up in whatever we’re doing at the moment we forget this thing is coming and then we just end up falling into the same trap. It's very annoying.

D: I think I still fall into the same trap so I can't stop it from happening but then I try and make sure it doesn't last too long but if you met me you would never know you wouldn't know from looking at me so its an internal thing

N: that's interesting, so you don't like to share that like bad things D: I don't know N: do you feel like it's not that productive

D: I only shared it once, so I started life as an accountant obviously as you can tell and I did this one job and it was February March and i was getting more and more upset and I was helping the woman who ran the company I was going through invoices and spreadsheets and I remember saying to her I just feel so awful I really have to snap out of it she was just kind of like oh yes mhmm and I realise that you have to hit bottom and then you can come up so I had to get there so I could come out of it. That's the only time really. Oh and I talk to my aunt about it once she said oh we all go through that... it's not that I don't want to share is just me I don't need to share it I guess there are some emotions you want to share and others you don't feel you need to share if that makes sense

N: I suppose sharing the negative stuff is sort of a form of dwelling on it and making it last longer

D: and it doesn't resolve anything

F: yeah I think it affects other people as well sometimes... do you feel confident about yourself

D: I don't feel I lack confidence I'm quite happy to go do certain things but I'm not sure if that confident or pigheadedness

N: no that's confidence F: yeah that confidence

D: I'm not scared of many things F: why are you not scared of many things

D: I think after a while when you've done quite a lot and it's all going okay things worry you less and less but then I was always like that yeah I think it's desire to do things overcome the fear do you know what I mean like you coming to London you'll probably worried about it but you wanted to come to London more than the fear of coming to London. The fear of London was overcome by the desire to be here. Yes so when you want things I think you go and get them is that confidence or desire

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