Naidra

hotd fandom but also like fandom spaces in general have made me notice is it not normal to like villains for being villains anymore. this used to be the ‘the villain is always sexier and more interesting than the hero’ website now you need a paragraph explaining that obviously you dont condone or approve of irl child abuse before you say a villain is hot or funny. lukey velaryon sweetiepie dead baby should not be beating otto hightower in best character polls bc people vote based on moral purity. weve gone backwards

crisdaemon advocacy?

i mean my interest in crisdaemon is mostly anthropological in a why didnt it happen way. even in like 2018 this would have gotten something on the shipping front + its just a total nonentity. is it a post-pandemic fandom shift? is there literally no overlap between criston and daemon fans due to how hard the teams lines are drawn you have to hate one to like the other? orb im pondering

its a thing mushroom said literally once so almost definitely isnt true but ‘criston also briefly had a thing for alys rivers it just wasn’t really historically relevant’ is extremely funny

‘aemond takes harrenhal finds a witch who looks uncannily like his mother with almost the same name and takes her as a sex prisoner’ and ‘larys meets the queen who looks uncannily like his witch older sister (who breastfed him) with almost the same name and starts a multi-decade long campaign to psychologically and sexually torment her’ fight

the funniest thing abt targ stans creaming their pants over daemon targaryen (grrm’s favourite targ) bc he was morally grey and both hero and villain with complex motivations is daemon really is not that grey compared to 99% of asoiaf characters hes just the only one grrm looks directly into the camera to tell instead of show you this. the same fans gushing over unpredictable rogue prince daemon are calling catelyn and tyrion one dimensional villains

Does anyone (besides me) believes that the Andals having no magic means something?

The First Men, the Valyrians, The Rhoynar, all have magic of some kind. And in a way their gods seem to be real as well. Same with the Ironborn or the ones that whorship R'hllor. And pretty much every other religion and race in ASoIaF has magic, except the Andals.

The Andals have no magic, they most likely hate it (the Maesters) and their religion is the only one that seems to be non-existent. It just seems so weird.

Also, the Hightowers (dance era and prior) are Andals and religious zealots and always seem to be fucking up the Targs (the most obviously magical house). It just really gives me bad vibes.

i think the reason why house of the dragon's treatment of alicent breaks my brain is because it's unironically written from the perspective of, like, a tyrion bro, but hidden under the cover of (targaryen) women's empowerment.

it's written from the position of not simply someone who identifies with tyrion as a nerdy misfit, but rather someone who would sympathize with tyrion more than sansa in their marriage to an absurd degree. someone who would valorize a grown man for resisting his attraction to a thirteen-year-old hostage and vilify said hostage for resisting or humiliating him during their wedding/marriage.

to them, a man being inconvenienced is worse than a woman (or girl) being abused. a wife resisting a husband's wishes is worse than the husband maritally raping her. a teenage girl with zero social capital surviving courtly intrigues is weak and annoying, but a girl burning all her problems away by dragon is badass. it's this exact brand of misogyny that is not only passively woven into hotd but also actively informs how the characters' actions are endorsed or condemned.

the most generous excuses are made for daemon and viserys because the show views them as victims of alicent's nefarious manipulations (because politicking is evil when a woman does it but clever and funny when a man does it). daemon realized it was wrong to groom rhaenyra as a teen... after bringing her to a brothel and molesting her there... so he's really a good guy. viserys chose to marry the 15-year-old over the 12-year-old so he's really not that bad. meanwhile alicent is the true misogynist for going along with her father's plan and getting married. it's like reading 2015 asoiaf reddit but in $10m-per-episode form

the thing about the faith in westeros (and the church in actual medieval europe) is that there are valid criticisms to be made of it but nine times out of ten when it's a noble (i.e. almost all of our characters) doing it they're complaining that their woke septon told them they have to commit 5% fewer war crimes. the sparrows are the only in-universe faith critics whose grievances with the faith are actually legitimate. when a targaryen (including rhaenyra) is disdainful of the faith it's not because they're a feminist icon or whatever its because they want to sexually abuse their relatives

Hi! Thanks for your last response. I have another question but more so for the writer in you. In an AU where after both marriages to Daemon and Laenor Rhaenyra has had no children at all but not of her own free will (so no kids with Harwin), how would that affect the characterisation of Viserys, Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aegon?

I have my ideas of course but I'm curious what you think 😀

Okay I had to think about this one a bit but I actually think that in this scenario the Dance probably wouldn't have happened.

If Rhaenyra has no children at all, Aegon is her heir by default. In this situation, it's not really worth risking a war to put Aegon on the throne earlier, especially because Rhaenyra now has an actual vested interest in keeping her brothers alive. The thing is, although sometimes we hear that Rhaenyra had to have children to secure the succession, the succession was secure through her brothers and their children, strictly speaking. Having your very own bloodline on the throne is not strictly necessary (just look at Elizabeth I), it's a want, not something needed for the good of the realm. So in this situation its in Otto and Alicent's best interests just to wait her out. Worst case scenario, Rhaenyra outlives Aegon (and if he's still hard drinking in this world, this isn't unlikely) and Aegon's child succeeds him which means....

If all else remains the same, the thing to do would be to pursue Baela as a bride for Aegon (how convenient for me!). In this scenario Daemon isn't getting any closer to the throne than that unless he attempts to usurp Rhaenyra with the Velaryons, and for all that he sucks I just can't see him doing that. A Baela/Aegon match would be a smart move in any scenario, but in this one it's ideal because the only real threats to the succession now come from the Velaryon line and Daemon's chaotic self, and if you neutralize the Velaryons you neutralize Daemon too because any resistance Daemon could possibly mount would always depend upon Velaryon backing. Otherwise he's just one guy with a dragon. That said, if Rhaenyra dies at a normal-ish age, Daemon is likely going to be long gone by then, so he's really kind of a non-issue in a world where he only has the two daughters by Laena.

Alicent is probably a lot more chill because her sons are not really in any danger. Instead of being obstacles for Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra instead needs them in order to prove that the succession is handled. Rhaenyra might actually have some motivation to bond with Aegon at the very least, seeing as he is her heir. And honestly, it's pretty likely that Aegon is a bit more well adjusted in a world where he doesn't have a sword of damocles hanging over his head the whole time, and in which his mother can just be a regular old slightly neurotic repressed lesbian (and hell, in this scenario maybe she and Rhaenyra could actually have a discreet affair. hmm...). Viserys probably still ignores his non-Rhaenyra children but maybe that fucks them up a bit less because it doesn't feel like he's actually trying to get them killed, it just makes him more of a regular asshole father (if the regular asshole was a king).

In a lot of ways, this would kind of be a win-win scenario, so it's interesting that so many people jump on the "Rhaenyra had to have kids to secure the line of succession, what was she supposed to do, force Laenor??" thing. Clearly Rhaenyra didn't have to have kids, she wanted to, which is absolutely her choice and her right, but it also makes her a lot like her father.

Genuinely insane to me that there are Targ stans claiming that the Targs, an incestuous family of former slaveowners of a colonial empire, came to Westeros and were corrupted by the evil eViL Andal culture and religion.

Like what??? The Andals and the faith of the seven are absolutely not without their own systemic issues (nor are the first men) BUT to argue that the rulers have been corrupted by the people they conquered is INSANE.

[ sorry not very fluent in english ] what do you think of the fans who say that Rhaenyra didn’t “ran” to dragonstone? And that dragonstone represents a trial-run for the heir to the throne? And that she was expected to rule and govern there until the time came for her to ascend the iron throne ?. I honestly think that they shouldn’t compare ruling dragonstone to ruling the seven kingdoms.

I've seen this brought up a lot too and I think the idea that Dragonstone is where Rhaenyra is expected to be the majority of the time "learning to rule" is a bit disingenuous.

Dragonstone is a tiny holding, with one settlement of smallfolk by the docks, Dragonmount with the dragons (this is the real advantage of Dragonstone, and why you want to keep it in the family) and Dragonstone castle to manage. Running Dragonstone does require managing numerous towns, farms, guilds, trade agreements, lords, smallfolk, foreign powers, etc. I've always imagined "Prince/Princess of Dragonstone" as the in-world equivalent to "Prince/Princess of Wales," that is, it is essentially an honor title given to the heir apparent. Running Dragonstone does not take any more skill or oversight than running any small holding, can mostly be handed over to a castellan (and was, during the war), and is certainly not comparable to ruling the realm.

On top of that, running Dragonstone does not require the prince or princess of Dragonstone to be continually in residence. In fact, over the years, most Princes of Dragonstone split their time between King's Landing and the Island. Sometimes, like during most of the regency of Aegon III, there was no real Prince of Dragonstone. Dragonstone is also not that far away, especially if you have a dragon, so if something comes up that requires attention, you can get there in pretty easily.

So Rhaenyra was definitely making a tactical retreat-- people In KL were talking too much about her sons and it was easier to stay away. And it does differ a bit from the show to the book, because in the book Viserys didn't give her and Daemon a choice, they were ordered to stay away after they married because he was pissed off, whereas in the show it was clearly their choice to stay away, which did put them at a disadvantage when Viserys died.

That said, the "experience" argument is pretty weak on both sides, whether it's black fans saying Rhaenyra had experience ruling Dragonstone and therefore should be queen, or green fans saying she didn't have experience whereas Aegon's experienced council would rule through him. Hereditary monarchy is not a meritocracy in which the most qualified candidate gets to rule. Literal children have become kings, including Rhaenyra's own son, who was completely shut out of royal politics by his council of regents and came into his majority at age 16 with no leadership experience at all. Rhaenyra staying away from King's Landing matters because it allowed the greens to get a jump on the coronation and anointment of Aegon, but what she was doing in Dragonstone is pretty irrelevant.

I know I probably give off green vibes in this account but I actually don't think it's necessarily wrong for the blacks to be portrayed as the correct choice. Reading Fire and Blood I got the sense that choosing between the two might be difficult for a Westerosi noble, because for them the question of loyalty to the crown versus loyalty to tradition is an actually difficult one, whereas for me, even if Rhaenyra wasn't the storied queen, I immediately sympathized with her because it's bullshit for her to be excluded on account of her gender, even if I didn't think she'd be a very good Queen.

So it's entirely legitimate for the show to be "biased" and that's not actually a good critique. Because this didn't actually happen! It's fictional! And I think the show actually did a pretty good job of having Otto and Alicent make cogent, non-misogynist arguments against her. If she were Viserys' only child, she might have a chance, but with brothers, any discontented lord could rally other lords to a war of succession at the drop of a hat.

In my opinion, a better thing to criticize is how the show went about engoodening the blacks - mainly by downplaying their more negative qualities, rather than adding distinctly positive or interesting qualities. The Starks are a go-to example of a "good" house, but it's important that they're all flawed people, and not only are they flawed, they don't always agree. The Strong boys, on the other hand, are more or less the same person, with no sibling rivalries to speak of. Baela and Rhaena, despite having the most distinct personalities in the books, have none, and neither seem to have any resentment or disagreement over the Strong boys claiming their inheritance. There was a lot of potential with Rhaenyra and Rhaenys, but they awkwardly wrapped that up in e8 without much reason.

i think alicents reaction to rhaenys disrupting the coronation is soooooo indicative of her relationships with each of her kids bc like. she tells criston to defend helaena, who she thinks of as the most fragile and in need of protection (ahem she sees her younger self in helaena ahem), but doesn’t do it herself, bc i think there is a fundamental distance between them, since alicent loves her daughter but doesn’t understand her. aemond doesn’t get a mention, because he has always been the child she sees the most as an adult, her equal she believes on some level can take care of himself. and aegon. she stands in front of aegon. which is suchhhhh a significant thing because. it will not do anything. alicents body won’t protect aegon if meleys decides to burn them, it will just kill them both. alicents life is aegons life, she was married to viserys for him, she became queen for him, everything she did from when she was a teenager was for him. and how beautiful and tragic and horrible that she just decides in this moment that if aegon dies she will die too.

I want more fantasy settings to use real world descriptions for race, just for fun.

Elf Mage: The knight thou searches for, whey-face in complexion, wheat hair, sapphire eyes, likely from Northern Hills yonder-

Orc Rogue: So she's white?

Elf Mage: Cau of Casian, to be precise.

I think the issue with hotd wigs, however, is the way they seem afraid to pluck and part. Like locs as a style are very hard to maintain, but that's why you part them or they grow and fuse. You also have to reloc the new growth, something we never see.

They also, in the case of Laenor, darken his roots, which makes his hair look dirty rather than what I can imagine was an attempt to give the effect of new growth and shadows in hair. It's doesn't work. Also, locs don't change the texture of your hair like with Baela and Laenor. Going from 3a curls to a 4b loc pattern (vice versa for Baela) was inconsistent.

Also,also,also, Locs are never bulkier at the top.

Overall, let this be a reminder to part your wigs. Maybe pluck the part to define it. And stop giving black people thing curly wigs. Have some semblance of decoram.

People who say that House Hightower destroyed the Targaryen dynasty are kind of silly because House Strong is right there. Like House Strong really apparently wanted to get in on the action and just helped bring down a monarchy.

Harwin straight-up had illegitimate children with the crown princess. And yes I know it takes two to tango but Harwin could have stopped it, though as we see in episode 6 he is more than down with this arraignment. The fact that the children just kept coming out looking nothing like him and he still kept seeing Rhaenyra. After Jace he should have taken a step back, I guess he wanted to see if things would change with Luke? Clearly not. The rumors about Rhaenyra's children just tarnished her reputation and put a target on their children's backs. This was him supporting Rhaenyra too and all he was doing was making things worse.

Larys is a whole nother level. The man flipped sides more than a pancake on a stove. The man was plotting against everyone, I swear. He was undermining anyone who wasn't outright helping him. He even got some personal hits in by helping force Rhaenyra out of King's Landing and then poisoning Aegon. This man was made for chaos and he happened to be born in the right time for it.

Lyonel is rarely talked about but it needs to be said, if Viserys neglected the growing problems so did Lyonel. He watched for years as his son, the commander of the city watch, got close to the princess and her having children who looked suspiciously like him yet said nothing. It's not until Criston Cole mentions it that he confronts Harwin. Like just because no one has had the guts to say doesn't mean no one was thinking it. He said it himself Harwin is committing treason that can result in the exile/death of Harwin, Rhaenyra, and the children but again why say it this late?

Just when you thought all the Strongs were dead after Aemond's attack on Harrenhal, enter Alys Rivers. Whether you believe that she cast a spell on Aemond or not, she followed her family tradition of messing with the Targaryens. Intentionally or not, she led Aemond to Daemon and was there to witness them kill each other. Single handily, she killed two Taragryens as well as two dragons: Vhagar and Caraxes. Then she ran off with baby Aemondcito to vibe at her vacant family home.

Say what you will about the Hightowers, I have never seen such a collected group effort by one family (unintentional or not) to cause so much chaos to another family. They were on opposing sides at some points yet still through every step were petty and screwed over the Targaryens. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. This was mostly me highlighting how weirdly funny it is how involved House Strong was in taking down the Targaryens before they themselves went extinct as a house. No hate to anyone just weird how connected they are with everything.