I think something that no one talks about is how Poe leans more towards being an anti-hero than just plain hero. He's willing to do the "wrong" things for the right reasons, ex: willing the kill bad people to save the innocent, basically willing to do the dirty work that no one wants to talk or think about. and I think it should be talked about more. Your post was just *chefs kiss*, the way you understood Poe is so refreshing compared to what I see him reduced to in canon
Poe definitely is willing to make the tough calls, including being willing to kill bad people to save innocent people (or destroy a planet to save countless others), but I wouldn't necessarily sort him into the antihero trope myself, more the "good is not nice" trope.
Because for as much as Poe is willing to shoot the bad guys, or blow up a planet if it means saving the galaxy, he's usually the first person to lower his blaster or offer someone a second chance. The biggest source of conflict between himself and Zorii in Free Fall is the fact that Poe can't fit into this life of shades of grey, and that's a trait that does follow him to the Resistance. He can lie (badly) for them, he can steal ships, be labeled a criminal if it's done for the right reasons/for the Resistance but at the same time, he also......really can't wrap his head around and seems uncomfortable at times with Suralinda's way of manipulating or recontextualizing the truth for propaganda purposes (which i wish had...been better explored in the comics it's Fine, but like I wanna know more about Poe "can't lie" Dameron and Suralinda "i'm here to tell a good story" Javos. I WANT TO KNOW MORE LUCASFILM), even if Suralinda is doing those things for the Resistance, so they can gain more support.
There's also this quote of Rian Johnson's, that I really love, and that I feel like sums up Poe the best for me:
“Oscar is like a reincarnation of my favorite old movie stars; he has that old school magnetism paired with insane acting chops. Poe is a straight-up, good-guy hero, and although he gets put through the wringer in this film, because of Oscar you never lose faith that he’s going to come out the other end all the better for it.” [from this post]
I'm having trouble wording/it's kind of hard for me to explain, but like. I view Poe as someone who is, like Rian describes him, as a good-guy hero, who usually cannot quite stop the instinct to do the heroic thing, and how that can make him quite reckless (I do believe Oscar actually described Poe during the TFA Press Tour as "recklessly heroic" sir I'm sorry i ever doubted you about Poe being reckless, I thoroughly learned my lesson #13 Poe issues and a knife to Poe's hand later) - but I think also that doesn't mean that Poe needs to look like the hero, and I think TLJ proves that? He does what he believes is the best for the Resistance, and seizes control of the Raddus. It's a last resort, of course, and I don't think he necessarily cares about what people might think of him for it* - he's a commander, he makes the hard calls all the time, and regardless of his own desire to be a hero, I don't think Poe necessarily wants to be praised as one. He's just gonna do the right, most heroic thing at any given moment, and doesn't care what people say. I mean...we kind of get the impression he's used to being seen a certain way, y'know? Poe doesn't seem surprised in the least when Holdo berates him, he just has this look of "oh this banthashit again I thought I'd heard the last of it", y'know?
*y'know except for leia. because he definitely makes a face when she says that thing about holdo in the transport. anyway moving on because this got completely. the train jumped the track here. adhd moment.
As much as he is willing to do some hard things for the Resistance, I feel like Poe would. not last a day in the Rebellion - the Rebellion is just gray. You have to be, fighting something like the Empire, they're quick and dirty and. manipulative and liars and assassins, and Poe...wouldn't have the heart for that, I think. So I do believe there would be a line, in what Poe would even be willing to do for the Resistance.
That said, I do wish canon/fanon would be more willing to explore....any of his. nuance. that everyone seems very allergic to acknowledging, and I'd especially be interested in seeing more of Poe's - I'm a dw nerd sorry I'm just gonna call it this every time - "oncoming storm" side because it's so much fun. There's some other facets of his character I'd love to see explored in more detail, but that one especially. It would honestly be a dream, I think, if Alex Segura got to write for him again, but perhaps this time in the Resistance era, because I think that man would have a blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with writing a good spy adventure.
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it's. interesting. the way that irving is popularly interpreted. i regularly see people who imply that he purposely leads mages into performing blood magic, only to pull the rug out from under them and expose them to the templars, in order to fulfill some type of quota (?unclear) because “see? we catch x number of suspected maleficar a year, we must be doing our jobs right”
so, okay. kinloch hold has the reputation of being the most liberal circle, because it doesn’t censor information. knowledge about blood magic rituals isn’t suppressed, necessarily; they hope that their teachings (and the implicit threat of the templars) are enough to keep people from acting on it, but people are still allowed to read about it. this is wild
the codex entry “Irving’s Mistake” reveals a lot. he writes, “The environment of the tower is such that certain modes of thought are encouraged, both for good and ill.” and it’s easy to take this as an admission that these “certain modes of thought” means they're just. straight up encouraging blood magic. but in tandem with the above fact (kinloch mages don’t censor information just because they disagree with it), ive always assumed it means that they encourage apprentices to question authority and use their Critical Thinking Skills to decide what chantry rules are actually worth following, rather than obeying blindly.
the danger with that is, everyone holds different values, and some people believe “blood magic is forbidden” is a rule that’s not worth listening to. and then we get uldred.
this is still irving’s fault, because he encourages his circle to question authority, but it’s not entrapment. he’s encouraging his circle to wring freedom and independence out of the small bit they’re offered
i also think his treatment of jowan is a little bit of. trying to play 4d chess without fulling understanding the pieces. he identifies jowan as someone of weak will, who could be easily manipulated by a bad actor. i honestly believe it was an empty threat, and irving’s thinking was something like:
-i am the first enchanter and i have blind spots. i know there are people in the circle who operate in those blind spots to prey on apprentices
- i have identified one of these vulnerable apprentices. i will present a false accusation, which will hopefully scare him straight if he was considering it. he may also reveal names of people who tried to influence him. if he has done nothing wrong, there’s nothing to worry about; we can investigate and it will turn up nothing because he is already innocent :)
his biggest problem was, in my opinion, having too much trust that everyone else would share his perspective. sort of has the mindset of "well, i read about some ancient tevinter blood magic rituals and i turned out okay" without realizing how insidious uldred etc. had gotten at manipulating people from the time they were children
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I love your fic - A Long and Slow Recovery. It’s so beautifully written and the emotions felt are so palpable. Just wanted to pass along my thanks for writing it!
Completely separate from the fic though- What are your thoughts on the Xianle trio - their break up and slow rebuilding of friendship in the novel. 😁
Thank you so much!!! ;-; I'm really glad you're enjoying alasr! I'm really proud and excited about it!
Ah I think about this a lot! As in, I think about it a lot to try and decide my thoughts lol. I'm actually rereading the whole novel rn to try and get a feel for everyone, especially the trio. I've been REALLY excited to write them.
Summary: I love them, I'm sad for them, and I wish them well. Rambling to follow:
So my opinion right now is I love them. I think Feng Xin and Mu Qing are really interesting as foils as well as just completely independent characters, and I love that Xie Lian can see them in both of those lights too. Neither Feng Xin nor Mu Qing are really understood or given enough credit by anyone except Xie Lian, and I don't know if any of them know what to do with that. The impression that I've gotten is that Feng Xin and Mu Qing don't even really want to understand each other, and that's really sad, but understandable. Feng Xin's straightforward form of loyalty doesn't translate to Mu Qing, and Mu Qing's fear that no one will ever care to see the best in him makes him preemptively prickly and eager to beat them to the punch, and that does not play well with Feng Xin's earnestness.
(I'm trying to figure out Mu Qing, especially. I like him as a character and want to do him unbiased justice while writing him, but he's such a unique, self-contradictory case lol. I've met people with his kind of defensive cynicism before--the "stop pretending to be a good person" mindset in the face of altruism--and I've always been annoyed with them as much as I pity them, but I like that he's such a realistic character in that way. I'm intimidated by the prospect of writing him but I'm looking forward to it.)
The Xianle trio breakup, to me, just shows exactly the differences in FXMQ's approaches to conflict. Feng Xin stays with Xie Lian as long as he does because it's a simple answer to him: he's Xie Lian's bodyguard and Xie Lian is his friend, so Feng Xin will stay because that's what is both honorable and personally loyal. It's the right thing to do, and it looks and feels right. Mu Qing leaves before Feng Xin does because 1) his mother needs him more and 2) he hopes he can help more by gaining power and resources elsewhere, because what they're already doing isn't working. It's the right thing to do, even when it doesn't look and feel right.
So at that point, Feng Xin displays the kind of loyalty that traditionally gets praised because it's shown in no uncertain terms, even when it's not performed in the most enterprising way. By the more cynical, Feng Xin's approach can be seen as short-sighted, naive, or even pretentious, when he's really just honest and incredibly steadfast. "Loyal to a fault" is canonically used to describe him somewhere. Mu Qing's integrity is easier to doubt by most people because 1) his reasoning can be interpreted as selfish, even when he's sincere and 2) his intentions aren't always purely good! He's a flawed person and his reasons for doing things can include pettiness and selfishness within the greater good intentions, but that doesn't discount the good in them, at least to Xie Lian. Even when Mu Qing is looking at the bigger picture, people can interpret that as him being cold and uncaring about the immediate problem, and he gets angry that he's the only person acknowledging the complexity or futility of the situation. Anyway, they both try their best to help Xie Lian Back Then and refuse to see the merit in what the other is doing. I forget exactly how much Xie Lian acknowledges that they're both trying to help, so, rereading lol. But Xie Lian is definitely Not in a good place and is definitely lashing out at everyone by the end, which I'm sure he feels ashamed of later.
And reconnecting and rebuilding the friendship!! When Xie Lian ascends again, "Fu Yao" and "Nan Feng" are sent to help him and of course their generals don't know about it. And Xie Lian sees through them pretty early and just doesn't mention it because he's a little shit (extremely affectionate), but he knows what they're doing and appreciates it. But FXMQ both feel like they've failed Xie Lian and want to make it up to him, whether he knows about it or not. And they have to work together to do it, as much as they hate it, but at least they recognize that they share that much in their priorities. I think that while it's ultimately hopeful and sweet, there's a lot about their reconnecting that's just straight up tragic. I'm assuming that FXMQ both feel so much shame and regret about what happened and how they left him, and now that they have another chance to help, the literal devil (extremely affectionate) walks in and takes their spot as Xie Lian's protector and right hand. I think Xie Lian still feels awkward around them, too, as much as he still loves them. I am really proud of them for talking it out as much as they do in the end, though. I need to reread some stuff to see how much they reconcile by the end and in the extras, but I remember it being a good prognosis.
I guess also, I think Feng Xin sees Xie Lian as someone he's been proud to serve and call his friend, because he believes in Xie Lian's ideals and good heart. Mu Qing, though, doesn't know what to do with this mixture of gratitude and the resentment that comes with being indebted to someone, especially because Xie Lian is the only person who's really shown that he believes in Mu Qing's potential, good intentions, and worth as a person. The classic "stop trying to be a good person, altruist" thing doesn't work on Xie Lian, because he really just IS that good, and I think that makes Mu Qing want to tear his own hair out as much as it makes him love Xie Lian. MQ and FX's opinions of each other, though, wow?? They're so convinced that the other's intentions are insincere (mq saying fx is holier-than-thou, fx saying mx is selfish), up until they're tested and they have to act together. They're competitive against one another, but they also know that they act well as a united front, so there has to be some grudging respect and extremely grudging trust there. It's funny how the breakup has FXMQ as divided, conflicting forces where in present day in the reunion, they're much more cooperative. Despite their issues, they've grown to speak the same language on some level.
Might have some serious errors in here lol, but I don't really think I have any particularly hot takes on the Xianle3. Again, I'm rereading the novel so I can get this stuff right, but pls forgive me if I'm off-base on something.
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