#wouldn't have an evening free. also the whiplash would be insane | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

icharchivist · 10 months

Note

I just thought of something I don't think Gbf ever bothered to tell us and now it's keeping me up

We know that Lucilius and Beelzebub are the Astral world clones of Sahar and Shalem

And I'm assuming Sahar and Shalem just popped into existence fully formed, because imagining Bahamut trying to raise two babies is a nightmare scenario, considering the big guy's track record. So they started out as adults

But did their clones?

Did it go poof one day and these two guys just existed in the Astral world? With all their issues already existing?

Were they born to Astral women who then got in trouble with their partners because the babies didn't look like them? Like a genuine Jesus situation?

Or did the babies pop into existence and were adopted and raised?

I'm asking because it's so funny to me to think about the two "I'm gonna cause problems for everyone, refuse to elaborate and leave" guys to have been children with parents who ideally loved them

Especially picturing Lucilius as a little boy who had the occasional nightmare but was not yet as haunted by the horrors as he would be in the future is so fun to me

Of course it's also hilarious to think that photos of him as a baby and child exist because if Belial found those, he would go feral over them and constantly annoy Lucilius with "Aaaaw, look at how cute you are! <333"

Or him teasing Beelzebub for having been a cute child as well

So unless there's canon evidence that says otherwise I'm assuming that's what happened. They started out as children and grew up into horrible people :)

Also while writing this I realized that I sort of assumed Sahar and Shalem existed before people, but I don't know if that's canon either, so they could also have been babies, either Jesus'd into the world by being born to a woman or just popped into existence as babies as well and then at one point turned to their parents and said "Mother, Father, I am the Speaker of the Omnipotent"

Also the mental image of Bahamut trying to change diapers is pretty hilarious

All in all it's a weird and nebulous situation or I'm just stupid and missed a bunch of stuff but some of the potential answers are just so funny to think about. Also tiny baby Lucilius. Nothing like picturing the horrible guy who torments you and everyone you love as a cute child

Anyway, thank you for reading my insane ramblings, always love your takes, take care<3

THIS WAS A WILD RIDE!!!

thank you so much for sharing it with me, it was a delight to read!

I admit i didn't even consider them as babies even once, not even out of "obviously they must have been born as adult", but purely out of, i never even thought about how they were before we meet them in canon, so this whole thing is giving me so much whiplash, but in a great way.

The only "canon" thing i can bring up that could weight on any of this is Lucio's 5th Halloween Line who does live in my mind rentfree:

So at least the one canon thing i can tell is that Lucio is *capable* of creating a doppleganger on the spot. Whenever an accident could happen where the clone would forget their lives and/or develop free will is obviously never mentioned.

Honestly when i read this line i had two thoughts: 1) "Sandalphon is going to murder you if you keep playing with him that way", and 2) "after everything that happened with Lucilius you're still making Clones?!" And it did make me think of a possibility on which Lucilius might have been a failed doppleganger when Lucio didn't really master the art yet, and probably made one without making sure the guy wouldn't develop free will and now he still has Problems.

But this is still pulling at straws and I can't take this jokey line as a canon proof of that (especially since it would confirm Lucilius's fear that indeed, his life is a joke). On top of that if i recall, Lucio is a bit confused as to how Lucilius came to be, so unless he's really there bluescreening because "fuck did i let one of my doppleganger out of my sight", I would be inclined to think he doesn't really know about the circumstances of Lucilius's creation.

On a canon note as well, I think in Shalem's stories it's confirmed they predate the mortals in some shape or form since we see a flashback of Shalem discovering a mortal and being shocked by their existence. It doesn't tell us much, but yeah.

CANON ASIDE. Since we don't have real answers there!

Honestly i figured Sahar and Shalem must have been made by God as in like, using matter rather than actual birth. Especially since they're supposed to represent the Morning Star and the Dawn Star respectively (same star, different perception of them, in the Canaanic religion at least), so i feel like in a sense they're probably manifestation of Light and Power in some way. Also i think (???) they existed before the Omnipotents splited in two, so it's likely that their perception of Life Itself is completely different than most. It could also explain Shalem's complete disregard on the taboo of sex, since it's something that, for her, is all second hand knowledge. She doesn't have to actually process how a baby is made and born, neither for her own creation or for future creations, so she only take the basis that it's pleasurable and theorically speaking it creates life, but she doesn't have any affect in all of this.

But the idea of them having been babies at some point for Bahamut to take care of is killing me. And considering we know the 6 dragons manifest themselves into existence by being birthed by their own elements, if Bahamut had to raise Sahar and Shalem as babies this would be the ultimate "and i'm NOT doing that again, next creations will be born adults, i'm not strong enough." (maybe it's why he abandoned Vyrn. Couldn't deal with him clearly being a baby. Clear "oh hell no i'll come back when they're an adult i'm not doing this shit again", and then he forgets just how long it takes for an adult to happen and he abandons Vyrn for centuries.)

For Lucilius and Beelzebub, meanwhile, i genuinely never thought about it and it's making me realize, we don't really know how Astrals reproduce right? I mean, that Mortals reproduce like we do is one thing: their lives are finite, and so it is how to carry on in life. But what about immortals? How do they particularly approach reproduction when the people will keep on living for thousands of years? Do they even reproduce normally or do they use other techniques?

For Adults Lucilius and Beelzebub at birth, i see two possible ways: -Doppelgangers like in the Halloween lines, that Sahar and Shalem might have unleashed to try to fight at different corners of the skies, but ended up lost/damaged, could never be found again, and developed Amnesia enough that now they're plagued with old memories. -Experiments. Some Astrals trying to reproduce the power of the Speaker, and making artificial beings out of it, adult shapped.

For Children Lucilius and Beelzebub at birth: -Experiments still work -A pure coincidence type of scenario. The reincarnations of the Speakers just happened to be born as normal Astrals. Just a sort of play of fate without a proper explanation or anyone to blame, mysticism at its peak. -Sahar and Shalem has some explaining to do.

Also alt situation for both: -While i don't recall Lucio really knowing the details, it could also have been something Sahar and Shalem made on purpose for some reasons. -Personally i'm fan of the idea of one day they got drunk and went "hey wouldn't that be funny or what" and now we've been dealing with their drunken legacy ever since.

but what you bring up about how they probably wouldn't look like their parents is absolutely killing me please.

And them having had a phase where by all account they were children is killing me to imagine. I feel like even as a child Lucilius would have a look that could almost kill you. And it's hard to imagine the mountain of muscles Beelzebub is as a child.

They would have dominated the playground. Kindergarden masterminds.

But the idea of them having nightmares AS KIDS and having to try to make sense of it makes me a bit sad :( it's one thing when a grownmind is tormented by visions, but a child is so tragic.

Anyway i'm totally into the idea of them being children if only for Belial to find the pictures and tease them about it. Totally.

Thank you so much for the ask, it was such a trip but it was really fun to ponder, and even more fun to read.

Take care <333

#ichareply #ichafantalks gbf #anonymous #long post for ts

1 note · View note