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#well..... no gay cas or destiel mention.
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Canon Destiel Timeline Masterpost
I wrote this all in a fugue state while listening to Green Grow the Lilacs on repeat so forgive any mistakes. @gay-fae ask and ye shall receive
So much has happened in the long and storied history of his fandom so I've decided to try to document it. I've started by looking up every time that canon destiel, destiel event, misha collins, jackles, or some other search terms have spiked on Google and cross referenced them with tumblr or twitter posts from that day. I know a lot of this is Misha stuff, but he does tend to be the one to say things
November 5th, 2020: Season 15, Episode 18 "Despair" airs and Castiel declares his love to Dean. The presidential election, Georgia turning blue, the presumed retirement of Vladamir Putin, Dabi from My Hero Academia, Ouran Host Club season 2, Sherlock season 5, the president of Bolivia being attacked with dynamite, ongoing BLM protests, a twitter artist making racist art of Ted Bundy, Hetalia returning, a dead man being elected Representative for North Dakota, V for Vendetta, scientists discovering a "hell" planet that rains rocks and has lava oceans, and half of Europe being in lockdown all became tumblr news around the same time. Some of these are true, some not.
November 8th, 2020: Misha Collins, in a panel with Richard Speight, states that the confession scene was a "declaration of homosexual love", and that when Castiel goes to the Empty, it is an example of the "Kill your gays" trope.
November 19th, 2020: The finale airs and it is not well loved to say the least. The episode is short, Dean dies by falling on a nail to death fighting vampire clowns, and there are several characters left with dangling unresolved plot threads and arcs, including Castiel. The car is in heaven though. There is very little heard from the cast and crew, if anything.
November 22nd, 2020: Misha Collins, in a livestream, tells a fan that Castiel and Jack are remaking heaven together, Cas has his wings back, and they are rainbow-colored. He had, however, mentioned the rainbow wings before.
November 24th, 2020: The Spanish dub of the confession is released and a "rogue" translator has written "Y yo a ti" or "I love you too" as Dean's response. Destiel goes canon in Spanish. Tumblr stops working as a result.
November 25th, 2020: tumblr user @thebloggerbloggerfun claims Jensen Ackles said "I had a member of the film crew record the confession scene on my phone for me" #unsourced #releasethetapes
November 26th, 2020: Misha doesn't appreciate the rogue translator, but walks that opinion back later the same day
November 27th, 2020: A "leaked" Italian dub of the confession scene shows a mutual confession.
November 28th, 2020: President Obama follows a destiel account on Twitter
November 30th, 2020: The supposed "Italian dub" is revealed as a fake created by user @iotiamo using sound clips from other parts of the Italian dub on show.
December 1st, 2020: Twitter user @mothdean says "misha I know you have a stan acc and spy on us so can we have a hazel update please"
December 3rd, 2020: Misha tweets about Hazel snoring and this is taken as possible confirmation of Misha's secret stan account
December 11th, 2020: A script from Cas's perspective leaks. It says "We see Cass's POV of Dean again - his face drawn, drained of hope. But still beautiful. Still Dean Winchester."
December 16th, 2020: Newsweek runs an article about an article that Misha wrote about the Lewinsky affair while interning in the Clinton White House in which Misha comes off as rather thirsty for Bill
December 20th, 2020: All Supernatural related materials disappear off the CW's website due to a copyright dispute with Warner Brothers
December 31st, 2020: Mishapocalypse redux
February 9th, 2021: Spn cast members Chad Lindberg and Samantha Ferris tweet about a party at the Roadhouse and it grows to become a full Destiel wedding
February 16th, 2021: @steveyockey made a fairly benign post about Jensen Ackles. The notes went wild in a variety of ways and started a rumor that Spn writer Steve Yockey was dead
February 20th, 2021: Steve Yockey is not dead and he should say it
March 3rd, 2021: The German dub drops and it is also romantic in tone
March 6-8th, 2021: A virtual con happens where Jensen discusses Chaos Machine and Jared says he wants to be in their next project. They also show that WAP video. Jensen is giving full mountain man preparing to play Soldier Boy.
March 10th, 2021: The French dub is released. Cas says, "I love you, Dean" and Dean now responds, "Don't do this to me, Castiel"
March 13th, 2021: The company Amazon tweets about Castiel and Misha Collins asks if they ship Deancas or Wincest. Subsequently apologizes.
March 16th, 2021: Misha says he can't speak as Castiel because Warner Brothers" specifically forbade it. #cwsniperconfirmed
March 17th, 2021: Sam and Eileen are getting married! I have no idea how this came about but I'm happy for them
March 23rd, 2021: Chad Lindberg and Samantha Ferris claim on Twitter that the Roadhouse party was about Valentine's day and not a wedding. Ferris specifically said that she worked on the show and that people tried to make Dean/Cas into "something that it wasn't", She also stated she doesn't "know what queerbaiting is" and that it was due to an "agenda". This led to #deanisbi trending on Twitter and Tumblr.
March 31st, 2021: Some possibly fake leaked scripts come up for sale on eBay. Also, Jensen is Batman.
April 1st, 2021: Mishapocalypse redux
April 6th, 2021: Leaked scripts from the 2 final episodes pop up and have several mentions of Cas in them that were omitted. Dean even thinks about Cas's confession when confronting Chuck.
April 18th, 2021: Scripts from seasons 12 and 13 leak. These include scenes from after Cas's death
May 17th, 2021: Jensen's band Radio Company releases an album including the song Watching Over Me
June ~5th, 2021: Misha says at a convention that Watching Over Me is about Castiel. Jensen neither confirms nor denies this when asked about it
June 11th, 2021: It is announced that Misha is publishing a book of poetry
June 18th, 2021: The Russian dub airs and Dean's line is changed to "Don't you dare, Cas"
June 24-28th, 2021: Jensen and Daneel Ackles reveal that they are making a Supernatural prequel series following John and Mary Winchester (a story that NOBODY was asking for). Jensen will reprise his role as Dean and will narrate. Misha hints that he would like to be involved, as do Ruthie Connell, Samantha Ferris, Matt Cohen, and Julie McNiven (the perils of having a cast of mostly immortal characters). But Jared Padalecki first says that he is happy for the Ackles's, he later said he was "gutted", then responded to Robbie Thompson's tweet calling him a "coward" and saying "what an awful thing you've done". The next day, Jensen and Jared both do damage control and say they'll always be brothers
July 17th, 2021: People are asking if Destiel will be canon in Space Jam, Misha's poetry book's cover is revealed to lukewarm reviews and people are talking about a particular poem about piss, and Perfume Genius releases an article that is a self-insert vore fanfiction about having sex with Jensen Ackles
August 2nd, 2021: Perfume Genius is at it again with "Last Friday, I had my eyes removed by Jared Padalecki". No, I do not know why she is doing this.
August 9th, 2021: Destiel fics hit 100k on Ao3. Misha tweets his support and people remember that he sometimes reads fanfiction and theorize he has an A03 account
September 1st, 2021: Misha makes his first Tiktok. There is a short intro before he calls cut, walks behind a screen, and strips his clothes off
September 3rd, 2021: Jake Abel uses Michael and Adam to help sell his hot sauce brand
September 4th, 2021: Misha confirms that the love between Castiel and Dean was "reciprocated"
September 9th, 2021: A clip of the real Italian dub of the confession scene goes viral as it is revealed that, unlike the Spanish dub, they change the line to "ti voglio bene" or essentially "I love you like family". Misha responds with a video saying "Ciao Italia, ti amo" with the subtitle "Love is love in any language"
September 21st, 2021: Misha drops the fact that one of his poems is from Castiel's perspective.
September 30th, 2021: Jensen will be appearing at a con on the same day as Misha and not with Jared for "professional reasons"
October 4th, 2021: Misha responds to a fan's tweet by saying that Jensen has "crazy eyes and a knife in his pocket"
October 10th, 2021: Daneel posts a picture of Jensen intently reading Misha's poetry book in front of a roaring fire on Instagram. Misha responds that he misses them even more
October 12th, 2021: Jensen is cast in Rust, a (rather ill-fated) western and Misha says "Yippie-ki-yay" and calls him a stud in the comments
October 16th, 2021: Denvercon. Jensen and Jared reunite for the first time since THE INCIDENT
April 24th, 2022: Misha Collins says in terms of being an extrovert, an introvert, or a bisexual, he joked "I'm all three". This led to the internet celebrating Misha's newly revealed bisexuality.
April 25th, 2022: Misha Collins comes out as straight. Oops!
June 19th, 2022: According to Misha, Dean's heaven was supposed to be at the Roadhouse with all his friends and Cas was going to be there with him
November 7th, 2022: Misha calls Elon Musk a snowflake
November 12th, 2022: Tumblr starts planning another Mishapocalypse
January 24th, 2023: Jensen and the cast of the Winchesters throw Dean Winchester a birthday party, including wearing silly little hats
February 26th, 2023: At JIBcon 11, Jensen sings an improvised song about an angel while Misha sits cross-legged on the floor looking up at him
April 1st, 2023: 10 year anniversary of the Mishapocalypse
April 16th, 2023: A year after his bisexual whoopsie daisy, Misha says that Warner Brothers asked him to "let it go" and keep pretending to be bisexual.
August 23, 2023: Rogue Spanish translator is revealed to not have gone rogue at all but instead to have followed the script he was given, confirming the existence of a mutual love confession that was cut at some point.
If you can remember any events and dates that I haven't found, please let me know and I'll add them! I haven't really rounded out 2022 and 2023 yet.
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@kimberleyjean ok, you asked for this, its cursed and I'm sorry.
So first off I'm NOT going to try to explain what Supernatural is. Its a garbage fire, and I am unfortunate enough to be one of the feral, touch-starved gays to live in said garbage fire. Its the best show ever but all of its accidental, its the worst show ever in terms of anything that was done on purpose, etc etc. You're on tumblr you know the drill
Anyway, before GOs2's "Final Fifteen", the ONLY connections between GO and SPN were:
A demon in spn is named Crowley, in an homage to GO Crowley. They are alike, but they are NOT the same character and I don't think it can be argued that they're the same person in different forms (bc with demons that would be possible). They are however both Scottish, greasy and have a deep disrespect for authority. I do HAVE a theory/hc connecting the two Crowleys but that's another post for another day. Weirdly, SPN!Crowley (who I'm going to call Fergus from here on out, bc even though nobody in spn or the fandom calls him that, it is his canonical first name) has very little to do with anything I'm about to say. Just fyi, he exists.
Secondly, The Hillywood show did a Supernatural parody back in 2014-ish. I will link it below if you're curious, but again not much in this video is ACTUALLY RELEVANT to what I'm about to say (however, Fergus is there. He's the Scottish guy)
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However, the specific arcs of Supernatural that SURROUND the season/topic this parody is centered on (Mark of Cain arc, ~s9-10) are where the coincidences get weird, and ok now I do have to talk about Supernatural a bit.
mmmfffff. Okay so the Metatron is a greasy, annoying, manipulative, power-hungry bastard who lies every time he speaks, wants full rule over Heaven and will control anyone and wreck anything he can to get there....
...and I'm talking about the version of the Metatron from Supernatural. LONG tldr, Dean (buzz cut, older brother, guy who's in love with an angel, the guy who says the news headlines in the Destiel meme) takes this thing/curse/whole other mess called the "Mark of Cain" to kill this kinda super-powerful arch-demon called Abaddon (more on her later), and blah blah blah Supernatural Happens For A Bit, and due to the Mark's curse making Dean act like a total psycho (and also, its implied, slowly turning him into a demon) they try to get help from the Metatron, who had been locked up after... well.
-when God was no longer contacting heaven, Metatron ran away from Heaven and hid on earth because he thought that the angels would use the Word of God (which the Metatron holds) "wrong" or something
-later, took advantage of strife & power vacuums in Heaven to manipulate Cas (angel, deeply autistic, the guy who says "I love you" in the destiel meme, in love with Dean) into doing a spell that CAUSED ALL OF THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN TO FALL, for no reason other than the Metatron is an actual pissbaby.
anyway, Metatron claims he can help Dean, that was a lie (shocking, I know), Metatron pulls some bs including basically stealing Cas' life-force (a second time. the first time was when he was ALREADY fucking w Cas as mentioned above) and runs off back to heaven... along with Gadreel, who he has manipulated/convinced to help him take power in Heaven.
who's Gadreel?
well. he's the angel who let the Serpent (or in this canon, just Lucifer) into the Garden of Eden, and he was cast into Hell to be tortured forever or something as punishment. However, after Metatron's earlier all-the-angels-falling scheme, Gadreel (for reasons I'm not too sure of tbh) took the name/identity of a VERY highly-regarded and powerful angel named Ezekiel, who died of his injuries during the fall
^this last part is a detail I try hard not to think about. this is because the names and roles are JUST similar enough to GO's Ineffable Husbands for the implications make me very, very sad.
Anyway, Gadreel had been around spn canon before, posing as Ezekiel, possessing Sam blah blah blah shit happened
Anyway this is a whole lot of words to say that the season/s of SPN that The Hillywood Show was parodying were the seasons where the Metatron was a main villain, and attempted/temporarily succeeded in taking power in Heaven BY MANIPULATING THE GUY WHO LET THE DEVIL INTO THE GARDEN OF EDEN
and then The Hillywood Show (who tbh I almost feel bad for lmao like BRUH) got signed to produce the parody/teaser/release date announcement for GOs2. Where the Metatron...
yeah.
yeahhhhhh
I would have LOVED to see the Hillywood Show team's live and immediate reaction to the Final Fifteen because I can't even imagine what must have been going through their heads.
ah yes. the FUCKING Metatron
oh also in spn, the Metatron (its complicated but basically)severely/fatally wounds Cas, and straight-up KILLS Dean, but Dean resurrects as a demon (for a few eps at least), meaning that Metatron DID technically try, and almost succeeded in, killing both members of an angel/demon gay couple, if only bc timing lined up so that Metatron was an antagonist in the arcs where Dean was turning into a demon.
so yeah
anyway I mentioned we'd get back to Abaddon so here's those major spoilers I mentioned. I'm fairly sure these are real spoilers and not theories, since my source is wikipedia
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that's the whole article, there's not much else on her on wiki (though I should really do more research on Muriel). I think I heard Neil say somewhere that he created Muriel because "he wanted an angel character, from Heaven, who was 'just nice'" but idk if anything specific has ever been said about her name.
anyway that's why the Metatron gave Muriel that book "The Crow Road" in the Final 15, why he likes her so much, and why he's having her stay on earth
"The Crow Road" is a book about the nature of Death, and Metatron is, for lack of a better/less problematic word, grooming Muriel for the role of angel of Death in the apocalypse (Abaddon being a VERY prominent figure in revelations, for those who weren't aware)
...so on top of all the other Supernatural/Hillywood-Specific coincidences, sure, let's have Abaddon too.
uhhhhh
yeah
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aborddelimpala · 9 months
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"I don't know anyone who ships Wincest who are upset that people feel Dean represents their queerness. The distinction between canon and fanon is important because truth and accuracy matter. Saying Dean is *canonically* bi is not supported anywhere in the show. Canonically, Dean repeats that he doesn't swing that way, sleeps with a ton of women, uses the straight person app, and never even responds to Cas's declaration of love - or even mention it after it happens. The way he sits/speaks/stares is not canonical anything. Canonically, Supernatural is terrible rep. It deserves and should get no accolades for stuff it didn't do. It shouldn't go down in history as groundbreaking queer anything, because it broke no ground. Saying it did is rewriting history and misrepresenting the show. And that matters because we are still in an era where we are surrounded on all sides by people trying to rewrite history to be whatever they want it to be - politically, socially, in the media, everywhere. As a queer person, it's important to me personally to make the distinction between canon and fanon because if we insist that a man who never makes a queer move in canon is good rep, who says he's straight and only sleeps with women on screen, then that's what we'll get.
In fanon? I have no problems with Dean being bi, trans, gay, aromantic, secretly ace - however folks relate to him. Fanon lets you read between the lines all you want.
OFMD gave us canonical queer characters - characters who verbally or physical confirm their queerness. So did Black Sails, Interview with the Vampire, Sex Education, Euphoria, Supergirl, First Kill, Nimona, Owl House. Dean does not, despite repeat opportunities.
Saying that Dean's canonically bi feels like gaslighting. It doesn't matter how many times people say it - Dean was conceived of as straight according to Kripke, written as straight in dialogue and action in the scripts, and played as straight according to Jensen. On the other hand, canonically Cas is gay. He was conceived of as genderless originally, written with bi plots, and ultimately played and viewed as queer by S15 according to Misha. It is a legitimate queer journey, one many people have gone through. I would still argue that it deserved much more onscreen development and dialogue to be good rep - see OFMD and Black Sails, e.g. Queer Cas deserved better than he got, especially with turbohell seconds later. But that's the difference - queer Cas IS canon. Bi Dean is not.
And yeah, it's a fiction show, and 50 years from now not many people will care. But the truth should still matter. I've shipped Wincest, Megstiel, Destiel, Sastiel and a ton of others in-between. Megstiel at least got a kiss, which is more than Destiel got.
tl;dr I fully support everyone shipping all the ships, see yourself in any character you want, embrace all the queer fanon, write and art and vid and whatever. But Wincest isn't canon, and Dean - on the show, not in our heads - is not bi. And truth and actual rep both matter.
And time and time again, we've seen that the studios will give us the bare minimum. If we say a character conceived, written and acted as straight is good queer rep, they have no reason to give us characters conceived, written and acted as queer. And THAT'S what I care about."
This is the most mature and well written discourse I've read about Dean sexuality. I'm glad Casey allowed me to share it here.
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remythologise · 1 year
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please rank your gay ships based on how bad thekr first time havifn sex would be thank you
a short selection of SOME gay ships from western live action on a RELATIVE score ranking because we don’t have time or space for all the rest: charles/erik: charles is literally a telepath. their first time having sex is 15/10 even if both of them cry and erik gives himself an injury it doesn’t take away from how out of this world the sex is
hannibal/will: 13/10 for the 13 people that died right before it happened. I am so sorry to tell you this but they are BOTH so into it and there is so much blood.
alexander/hephaistion: over two millennia of people saying alexander was cuntstruck by hephaistion’s thighs so I guess that first messy 12/10 handjob was astronomically good for alexander.
tos kirk/spock: kirk is very kind and gentle with spock here even though spock’s losing his goddamn mind about it. kirk, in fairness, ALSO loses his goddamn mind about it a bit. not for nothing are they based on the above two historical figures. 11/10 lewd handholding
xena/gabrielle: including women on this list as a comparison point. it’s so 10/10 good and they are so normal and communicative about their needs, wants and feelings
post-15.18 destiel: might be sort of normal actually. a bit awkward at first, but given cas is an angel and blows out some lights along with dean’s back I’ll give it a solid 9/10 that can only get better from here.
flint/silver: 8/10 sadly they’re both so in love with each other and work so well together it overrides all of the gaslight gatekeep girlboss manipulations and mindgames that have or will go on, even if they’ll never admit that!
steve/tony: picking one universe and saying ultimates, ults steve is homophobically trembling the whole time and ults tony is bitter and jaded and laughs derisively at the situation after steve comes. 3/10 objectively but a 9/10 experience for steve (previously had not had gay sex) and a 7/10 experience for tony (he’s a masochist)
holmes/watson: holmes is too in his head about it and watson doesn’t know if he likes gay sex yet. 6/10 love that dare not speak its name is still very sexy for all involved
house/wilson: they know way too much about anatomy for this to be bad, BUT never underestimate the power of them derailing the experience by arguing with each other and bringing up death before anyone even gets off. 5/10
kim/harry: oh this is ABSOLUTELY what you’d expect (harry full on losing it not even halfway in and sobbing violently) but it is saved by the fact harry can near-read kim’s mind even if he doesn’t know what kim’s mind means half the time. 4/10, +0.5 modifier (kim really trusts you)
nandor/guillermo: also 4/10, neither of them communicates about their kinks. guil makes a secret action plan of how the next time can be better, except nandor then immediately goes off and hooks up with some other love of his life
merlin/arthur: 5/10 sloppy blowjob by merlin that gets a downgrade to 3/10 because somehow in sucking arthur off he also managed to doom magic, all other gay people and the entire working class
geralt/jaskier: 2/10 geralt is thinking about yennefer’s breasts the whole time. sorry he can’t help it blame the djinn probably
aos kirk/spock (or any pre-movies version of tos): somehow kirk spends the whole time convincing himself it’s just a casual thing for a literal vulcan. spock spends the whole time trying not to kill kirk and then thinks he’s gravely injured him AND disgusted him with the scale of his aggressive desire. 1/10 they both get off but it’s physically painful and both are miserable about it
endverse destiel: dean is SOOOO angry and revolted with both himself and castiel. absolute 0/10 that never happens again.
dishonourable mentions for the hell of it:
aziraphale/crowley: whatever neil gaiman said about them never having sex because they’re beyond that or whatever. -10/10 they don’t qualify
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robotlesbianjavert · 6 months
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Ten headcanons about spinner please
well you asked so nicely. okay!
10) i think i've already mentioned this in the past and some fics but despite what you expect from someone with reptile associations he's not anymore affected by the cold than any other warm-blooded person. and he knows it's a silly thing to get sensitive about but well when people assume he gets a bit heated!! so to say!!
9) he first learned how to use a knife, and in particular knife throwing tricks, from his mom, who is most of the born and bred country rep in his family and grew up with very little else to do and really needed a cool party trick. between her and toga, knife-throwing is his only surefire way to bond with women.
8) who is the biggest bara rep in league of legends. idk mordekaiser looks promising. in any case spinner's first glimmer of realizing that he is gay was accidentally stumbling upon LoL bara doujinshi, on the internet. somehow the continuing fascination for bara did not translate to real life where he keeps going gaga for weird skinny weirdos with disappointing t&a (UNTIL shigaraki's ujiko-provided glow-up)
7) his backup plan for going to the city after seeing stain on tv if he failed to find and join the league of villains was just to hit all the clubs and get laid. but as a virgin and hikkikomori he was very nervous about this option and was kind of relieved that he could just join a terrorist group instead.
6) i used this one in a fic too lmao. as a kid his claws were filed down regularly so that other kids and the rest of the town didn't freak out and think he was gonna gut them. cuz they're evil. as part of the headcanon of it all he does have weird hang-ups and
5) backseat gamer. like, pathological. much like myself as a child watching my stepbrothers play zelda or conker's bad fur day, he will sit over shigaraki's shoulder (and anyone else's i guess but he's literally so under-socialized he doesn't know anyone else who plays videogames irl. sad!) and be like i wouldn't have done that. you're supposed to go over there. why aren't you using all these cheat codes that i know (they don't work). thankfully shigaraki is cool with this cuz he loves to argue. i actually consider this canon enough given that we have now seen spinner hanging over shigaraki's shoulder as he's playing games.
4) were a tumblr equivalent to exist in bnhaverse spinner would have an account and he would try to be crazy stealth and not have it associated to any other social accounts ever and he would be a hater on it and you could not pay him to commit voter fraud for something against his morals (shipping polls) (he would have voted destiel!! he knows he is cas-coded!!) but he would create so many dummy accounts manually by hand HIMSELF like a hard worker to influence results as much as he could. without paying people. or getting bots. he has a pure hater soul.
3) related to the above spinner is a constant hater online. people ask him what does he ever like and he just regurgitates whatever video essay he watched recently that had a nice thing to say. but his hater stances are 100% original. not to say that he never Likes something about anything but he's dogshit at expressing it.
2) part of his issues is that he was very unintentionally detached from any other of his heteromorph-related family that he could relate to (a lot of the family was probably located in cities) aside from whatever parents or siblings, which contributed further to his feelings of isolation from the community he grew up in, and his heteromorphic traits were just enough more apparent compared to the immediate family that he was more targeted by the community he grew up in. so he's both discriminated and marginalized by the community, and has a harder time finding solace in his family to cope.
1 ) i must once again stand by spinner's hybistrophilia. like really specifically his true fantasy is a cool suave older man who does a lot of serial killing and is willing to take spinner under his wing and say ah i see you have a lot of potential. but then he fell in love with shigaraki. that's how you know it's true love. i guess you can argue that shigaraki is an old soul.
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bookinit02 · 2 years
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i don’t think the general audience realizes how MONUMENTAL it would be for mike & will to canonically get together. i don’t think they even realize how important and groundbreaking it is that will is canonically gay and in love with mike. the entire time i’ve been growing up, there have been little to no canon queer couples that were prominently featured in mainstream media. we had plenty of SHIPS, with lots of chemistry and support: merthur, stucky, johnlock, klance, reddie, destiel. (also, why are there, like, no wlw ships🥲 do better guys.) out of those, the ONLY ones with canonical feelings are reddie and destiel, and they’re done in a way that could be interpreted as platonic if you are determined enough to ignore it. also, not to mention that eddie and cas DIE?? thanks. (side note: this is another reason why killing will would be an absolutely terrible decision.) NONE of these couples are together. none of them. not only are they not together, but if you dared to say they SHOULD be together, or maybe they’d be a good couple, you got mocked. made fun of. by everyone—actors, writers, cast & crew, fans, the general public. now, we had other shows. we had glee. we had shadowhunters. we had… whatever the other ones were, because i honestly can’t think of many. we had minor pairings with 0 chemistry and 0 effort on the writers’ part. and still people say: stop making everything gay! why does everything have to be about gay couples now? can’t people just be friends?
but guys. we have been BEGGING for well thought out, romantic queer storylines for years and years and years. we have media that is specifically designed for us now: heartstopper, for example. we have tv shows and movies that are entirely centered around the queer experience—which is great! awesome! but the majority of straight people are not watching them. to have such a huge, important slow-burn romance that was well written and beautifully developed, between TWO MAIN CHARACTERS of one of the most popular shows in the world… it would be life changing. i’m not going to say it’s never been done before, because it (probably?) has, but i can think of very few examples. and yes, robin is great. i love her. but her romance with vicky is nothing to write home about, and is given, like, 3 scenes out of the whole show. on top of that, she’s a side character.
to have a queer story be front and center would be absolutely groundbreaking, as well as validating. and i, for one, would die to see it happen.💗
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queermania · 8 months
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I have a real question that I promise I'm not trying to start shit. Just really wanna know your thoughts. Do you think Jensen wants them to make destiel canon or Dean queer?
ummmm.... maybe? my honest answer is that i don't know. i have a lot of different thoughts that add up to a certain conclusion but it ultimately means nothing because i don't know him and i have no idea what he's thinking about anything.
my general speculation (based on nothing but vibes and an unnecessarily large wealth of spn knowledge) is that if kripke had come to him some time during the first three seasons and said, "hey we wanna make dean [insert flavor of queer here]" jensen would've been like "cool, boss, just tell me what you need me to do."
(after s3, i think the only flavor of queer that was even remotely an option was bisexual so that's what i'm using from here on out. however, i do still believe in my heart that dean is gay, for the record <3)
i think if any of the show runners or writers tried to make dean explicitly bisexual (with or without the inclusion of destiel) during s4 through about s10, jensen would've done it because he's a professional, but i also think he would've pushed back on it at least a little, for a variety of reasons.
i think starting around s11 all the way to the finale, he would've been fully on board with explicitly canon destiel, if the writers made that call.
and then that brings us to now and what happens going forward, because that's the real question. i do still believe that if it's out of his control, he will do whatever the people in charge want him to do. but i don't think that particular decision is out of his control anymore. so?
so what i know is that in the past he's said that dean is straight and that destiel isn't a thing, canonically. and he's never said the opposite (outside of the whole "it's a story and it can be whatever you want it to be" type rhetoric).
however. i also know that he was fully on board with the confession and that he was trying to get the rights to supernatural before it was even over because he already knew he wasn't satisfied with the way it was going to end. that tells me that he's always fully planned on the confession being resolved in some way. there are, broadly speaking, only two ways to resolve it:
1. dean doesn't reciprocate.
2. dean does reciprocate.
the thing i'm stuck on is: what does the show even look like going forward if dean doesn't reciprocate? i can't imagine jensen thinks that would go over well. i am generally of the opinion that our part of the fandom vastly overestimates how much of the audience we actually make up, but i just don't believe that after all of this *gestures broadly at the last however many years* he could possibly think that's satisfying. because what happens? dean says "thanks but no thanks" and then... they just pretend like it never happened? dean gets a female love interest? cas stays in heaven as an angel with jack and dean goes back to earth and has a human life without the family he chose over his father? what is the point of it all?
like, i just don't see a way to go forward without dean reciprocating that doesn't feel empty and unsatisfying and depressing for everybody (apart from another relatively small faction of the audience who are going to be unhappy with literally anything that isn't just sam and dean and nobody else anyway).
not to mention, there's no way jensen's not aware of the cultural impact of destiel and the confession at this point.
also, jensen suffers from terminal dean-girlism. he wants that germophobe to be happy. all roads lead to a certain conclusion. but again, i don't actually know.
(also just to be clear i believe dean already is subtextually queer and destiel is reciprocated and nothing you say will change that for me because i watched the show. i have the receipts.)
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brsb4hls · 2 days
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Right, this will probably be one of the most wank-inducing polls ever, but I just gotta do it.
Personal opinion and explanation (kinda) under the cut.
Here it comes:
Why do I ask?
Well, to me it seems pretty clear Jensen seems ok with Misha getting his 15 minutes and acting what was important to him, but does not want to get dragged into it.
He has become more fan positive, but with the occssional foot in mouth and mocking.
I keep seeing takes like 'if Jensen has any say in the revival, Destiel will be fully canon' and I absolutely do not see it this way from what I've witnessed.
Dean is Jensen's most popular character and I feel what Jensen likes most about him apart from emotional depth and the hero thing is that Dean is 'cool' in old people terms. (Jensen is 'old people' kinda compared to some of his fan base).
He f.e. loved the purgatory storyline mostly because he got a rad new jacket and weapons.
He said so himself in an interview.
He wants Dean to be in the spotlight being awesome.
And yes, this will absolutely sound homophobic, but I think that Jensen feels Dean being openly bi would 'ruin' the character for some of his fans.
That doesn't mean Jensen himself is homophobic, he is an actor and interacts positively with queer people, but he has an outdated mindset (most likely due to how he was raised).
I know he played a bisexual character once, but nobody outside of his hartcore fanbase remembers that and he did not act it out on screen. It was all lip service and mostly about Marilyn anyways (talking about 'Blonde' here).
And then it never happened again.
In 'The Boys' he was so painfully straight it almost did not fit the show.
So I simply don't think it would fit his 'portfolio' (he is often type-cast anyways) in his eyes.
Then in 'The Winchesters' Cas wasn't even mentioned. It was all about nostalgia. And Jensen easily could have slipped in a neutral acknowledgement.
So, let me know what you think and why.
Also, no, again, I don't want to imply Jensen's homophobic, he is just socialized in a certain way and has an age where he grew up with 'gay jokes' being peak comedy.
This is all subjective speculation, I do not know that man personally, so I'm aware I have no actual clue like the most of us.
I'm just interested in how people come to completely different conclusions.
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castielsparkle · 1 year
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Hey uh suppose you were trying to explain the destiel mineshaft to an idiot.....how would you explain it?
alright well. going to make this archived for future destiel mineshaft historians. might as well. (also do not worry ur not an idiot and neither is anyone else that doesnt understand the context LOL it truly is something that just Broke Containment<3)
The Great 2023 Destiel Mineshaft Incident Thesis/Autopsy/Deepdive
On January 18th, 2023, at 4:04PM this post was made, and here we can cite the first instance of the use of 'destiel mines.' Not entirely a concept yet, just a phrase. But here is where it can be traced back to.
January 28th, 2023, at 11:45PM, thee "winchester derangement syndrome three meal course" groupchat is started by Ro (@destielgaysex) (Initially groupchat was under a different name but i fear divulging into the 'lore' of that would distract us from our point.) I digress;
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This group consists of three tumblr bloggers:
-Ro (@destielgaysex)
-Zo (@marycentric)
-Cas/Dex (self, @castielsparkle)
Over the course of the following days they (myself, the author, included in this) continue to watch supernatural together in voice call channels in a discord server, "gay people," mentioned below.
Around 9:13PM, January 29th, 2023, voice chat is initiated.
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Exact time is not confirmed.
(Unsure of exact time,) Zo (@marycentric) eventually joins the voice channel.
Some time before 1:48AM Cas (@castielsparkle) joins the voice channel.
1:48AM, January 30th, 2023, this post is made.
1:48AM, January 30th, 2023, original post is reblogged with this addition. It is important to note this addition was made in reference to the first "destiel mines" post on Jan. 18th, refer to link one in paragraph one (of thesis.)
By 1:50AM, January 30th, 2023, the first moments of primitive, conceptual worldbuilding has begun.
Containment arguably was breached at 1:48AM, January 30th, 2023, when the first post that began circulation of the night was made, then reblogged by Quin (@tchotchkedean) however, some could say true containment breach happened 1:56AM, January 30th, 2023, here.
1:57AM, January 30th, 2023, first mention of minesnipers and the 15k fics per shift (one shift ending come midnight) requirements.
1:58AM, January 30th, 2023, first mention of "the incident" (explosion and subsequent collapse of mines.)
1:59AM, January 30th, 2023, reiteration of minesnipers.
2:14AM, January 30th, 2023, President Collins is introduced. This is also the first reference of "lol whar? haha whar?" being put directly into an original "destiel mines" post. This is believed to be a reference to the post made by Al (@hoziercd) at 3:19AM on January 29th, 2023, which can be found here. (Note that this predates majority of "Destiel Mines" posting.)
2:15AM, January 30th, 2023, it's like mineshaft in here. First footage on-record of Destiel Mineshaft site.
2:17AM, January 30th, 2023, second account of further breach of containment, from Al (@hoziercd)
2:22AM, January 30th, 2023, third account of further containment breach, this time regarding Timothy @maybenextjuneillgettoloveyou. (Note further reference to "whar?"-posting.)
Sometime around but not specifically proven to be at 2:28AM, January 30th, 2023, ambience is playing in discord voice channel to make blogging more immersive and evoke more passionate emotions of Destiel Mineshaft simulation.
2:31AM, January 30th, 2023, we are informed of the Destiel Miner's wages. (And later informed their Christmas bonuses are "parallels," according to on-site source Zo (@marycentric.) However, this was later debated as refutable by other employees, upon other things.)
2:36AM, January 30th, 2023, anonymous ask is received by Ro (@destielgaysex) inquiring about Destiel Mineshaft.
2:40AM, January 30th, 2023, more containment breaching from Dean (@howldean.)
2:48AM, January 30th, 2023, 22 minute mark of mine ambience in voice channel reached.
By 3:16AM, January 30th, 2023, there were at least four other instances of containment breach. Records will remain private at this time.
3:20AM, January 30th, 2023, references to President "Omega Longarms" Collins are made, with photographic evidence to back up claims of "sightings." This reference goes further back to a redacted document taking place at 1:19AM in an omitted server (I do not have access to) in a channel I've been loosely informed is regarded as "#mishafucking."
3:28AM, January 30th, 2023, hour two of simulated mine ambience immersion begins.
3:32AM, January 30th, 2023, final record of original textpost-form containment breach, from Linh (@castielsboyfriend.)
Not listed: various posts regarding the status of the mines, accounts of which vary slightly, but that is to be expected in any traumatic group experience. Archives can be found on the prior blogs listed.
additional points;
-coining of the namesake 'winchester derangement syndrome three meal course' should be accredited to @induboistably .
-timestamps take place during EST.
Please feel free to direct message author (myself, @castielsparkle) with any further inquiry/to correct any information if necessary/provide further context. 💙
EDIT AS OF 12:53PM, JANUARY 30TH 2023; my apologies for the negligence of mentioning the Miners Rebellion of 2084.
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This was brought to my attention by mineshaft veteran @tchotchkedean.
This refers to a series of events regarding the uprising of those employed by Big Destiel and by extension President "Omega Longarms" Collins. This had a ripple effect on the Destiel Mineshaft community. There are multiple firsthand accounts of the workers dodging bullets from minesnipers and trying to escape. This also includes the resulting actions of minesnipers guarding the retirement homes of the workers, in disguise.
Sources for these claims include, but are not limited to:
Source
Source
EDIT AS OF 1:01PM, JANUARY 30TH, 2023; it has been brought to my attention the name of the discord server (gay people) was mentioned in a message, this is a personal error, as i confused it's title with that of a voice channel. Revisions have been made to correct this error. Thank you @destielgaysex for bringing this to my attention.
EDIT AS OF 1:53PM, JANUARY 30TH, 2023; my apologies, in my haste to write the document i failed to mention Em (@heller-castiel) was among the mines as well. Thank you for your service!
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bsideminibang · 8 months
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Title: I Had Some Time (With You)
Author: @songliili
Artist: @keikakudom
Rating: Explicit
Pairings: Castiel/Dean Winchester
Warnings: Major Character Death
Tags: Inspired by The Last of Us, Episode: s01e03 Long Long Time (The Last of Us), The Last of Us Spoilers, (in a way), Croatoan Virus, Alternate Universe - Zombie Apocalypse, Survivalist Dean, Recluse Dean Winchester, (ex), Teacher Castiel, Dean is Bill, Cas is Frank, they both die, but they're, Old Dean Winchester, Old Castiel, it's basically, Euthanasia, for cas, Terminally Ill Castiel, Assisted Suicide, and dean follows him, Dean Winchester Dies By Suicide, Suicide by Overdose, briefly mentioned, Past Benny Lafitte/Dean Winchester, Past Lisa Braeden/Dean Winchester, Smart Dean Winchester, Closeted Bisexual Dean Winchester, Openly Gay Castiel (Supernatural), Dean Winchester Has Internalized Homophobia, Assisted Suicide, Castiel/Dean Winchester First Kiss, Castiel and Dean Winchester First Meet, Castiel/Dean Winchester First Time Having Sex, Blowjob, Married Castiel/Dean Winchester
Posting Date: September 6
Summary: It's 2005 when things go to hell. Well. They go to hell for everyone except Dean, ‘cause he was ready for it. Well. He was ready for the apocalypse, not for the gorgeous man who fell into his life, quite literally. OR a Destiel rewrite of Bill and Frank's love story as shown on HBO's 'The Las of Us episode 3: Long Long Time' that uses elements of both universes.
Keep reading for an short excerpt:
It’s late morning and Dean is working on one of the fire-throwing traps that lately has been malfunctioning, when the alarm blares in the bunker because one of the hole traps triggered it. Annoyed, because that means that he has to haul up an infected corpse and he’s really not in the mood, Dean picks his favorite rifle, and walks out of the bunker to kill the son of a bitch.
The incriminated trap is only a five minute walk on the North-East side of camp, and close to that gate as well. At least the asshole had the decency to not make Dean walk for too long out of his safe haven. He shuts off the electricity running through the fence and unlocks the gate to go outside, then locks it behind him.
Dean cocks the rifle and raises it to aim before getting to the hole’s edge, when he hears a desperate voice yelling “Wait! I’m not infected!”
Confused, Dean walks the remaining three steps to see who the intruder is.
To be fair, he doesn’t look infected, no. He just looks like the most beautiful man Dean has ever seen. Dark unruly hair with a little bit of gray at his temples and in his long beard, so he’s probably in his 40s or early 50s. Despite the shadow at the bottom of the hole, the man's blue eyes are shining, adorned by crow’s feet, and the laugh lines in his face are still visible under the beard. There’s also a small wrinkle on his forehead just between his eyes. The past three years surely have given the man multiple reasons to furrow.
After two seconds of stunned silence, Dean wears his angry mask, scowling at the stranger from behind the rifle’s viewfinder. It’s not because he wants to see the man’s eyes better, shut up.
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incarnateirony · 1 year
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[cackling] nothing funnier than a 2po nonnie trying to talk to him about The Boys, Walker and Windy, only for him to start peeing his pants yelling there's no Destiel in The Winchesters. Nonnie's gotta be like "Um.... ok?"
And then just "Jensen said." No he didn't, bitch. Maybe in your proven quantum tunnel of M&G lies. He's said the opposite, you just refuse to listen. And you know it. That's why it's living rent free in your head. Someone be like "Hey, did you watch Ninja Warrior last night?" and you're so freaked the fuck out you just break out screaming "THERE'S NO DESTIEL!!!!" because that's literally all you can fucking think about, your commitment to denial, and just... hoping nobody asks your SOURCE? On "Jensen said no Destiel in TW"?
Because like. Boy, buddy. Let me tell you something. If you're about to appeal to shit that's off the record by him, you're gonna have a REAL bad time with anyone that knows WHY I've known what I know the last year and a half.
Keep up your pressurized squealing now that Wiki's cut you off from burning her. Now that EVERYONE knows you lie about your greets and warp them severely. Oh, and by the way, I figured out why you couldn't doxx the broad side of the barn. Just because Gayle overheard a friend of mine having a personal conversation with Misha doesn't mean that they were your target, yall. Not that you should have had a target to begin with. But again, now fandom knows this, and the violent threats, and everything about you, and the people that shelter you and help you in spnscripthunt.
And most of all, if we're appealing to shit off the record:
Jensen has actually said, repeatedly, that Dean and Cas as a gay unit are in fact part of the Winchesters. And I knew that since December 2020, before it was even The Winchesters (or more, his regrets that were eating him alive that took shape into the show). And I knew that again in May 2021, when it became The Winchesters. And the Dencon after and the J2 fight it caused and I framed it to the absurdity it was in reality, to wii music. And I knew that again in September 2022, when he told even more people. And again at Vancon, when he repeated verbatim the time and moment he Had A Different Take I'd mentioned since Dec 2020, in a weird full circle, that you pretend you can't speak english to understand in full.
Dude. It's over. We are no longer In That Moment. We're well past The Next Setup. And we're blowing Every Light February 2023.
I'm starting to think their 404 error is how loud this makes me knowing about this shit HOW long before Jared likeSKDJFskdjfsdf that's gotta be it. Does not compute. their system crashes and they forget this exchange and line themselves up to fall down on the next one. Guys, it was need-to-know. Jared, like any other late cameo star, didn't need to know yet. Sure, Dierx and Drake met Misha first (well, early, not Literally First). Because it was Need to Know. Whatever that fills in with context on the rest of this post, cest la vie. Subtext. Now Cope. The louder you deny Robbie's revenge for what it is, the deeper the cut will bleed, so if you'd like to lose your innards across the fandom floor in front of a crowd, keep going. Fine, but know you gutted yourself.
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Note
Do you believe J2 is romantically involved?
https://at.tumblr.com/magnificent-winged-beast/jensen-ackles-2020-inside-of-you-podcast-w/3ff5rrnhev0z
No, not at all.
Personally I think they are great friends, they kind of grow up together in Supernatural. Well, Jensen did learn to become an adult and got bigger and bulkier till The Boys. The Jarod just grow up taller and went deep in to the forever manchlid persona.
Anyways, J2 it's not my ship. From whatever angle I look at it, I can't see it. Not only because of their characters being brothers and all. It's just not there for me.
From that mentioned link. I can explain that I do believe everyone has the right to ship whomever, and in the spirit of being cool and make peace and love (like Misha and Jackles when in Rome 😉) between the SPN factions. I mentioned that what I thought Jackles was implying, was him giving his blessing to all the ships.
When I started to watch Supernatural from the beginning back in 2005, I wasn't aware about the concept of Shiping.
I was undoubtedly attracted to Dean nearly at the middle of the first season. Jackles made Dean so real and important for me on that show, that from then I was kind of sad Supernatural wasn't about just him, later on, about him and Castiel.
From there, since season 2 to middle 3 it was me just tuning in to watch Dean killing everything with his tall brother dude. Like I said, I wasn't aware of Shiping, and because of my cultural upbringing I thought gay was wrong and a problem. (Aka living in a South American country where machismo is law, and being homofobic is instructed to children).
I got then a brief understanding and crash course about ships because of Sherlock, and here in tumblr. Yes, I'm a Johnlock refugge, but even then I wasn't THAT convinced about those two. Albeit the fan art, and of course Fanfiction get my attention and further understanding and acceptance about my bad education. I started mending fences about my previous misunderstanding of queerness.
While I was on a mental journey about life and everything, hiding in the now questionable Sherlock y stopped watching Supernatural till it was on season 7.
And then one day... 🎶 One magic day they crossed my screen.... 🎶 😂
I kinda stumbled upon Supernatural again and saw new characters and plot. I get on track again watching the thing from the beginning till season 4. My life changed forever 📺😑.
Not only I discovered my new religion and Overlord, I get to really really experience that Shiping thing. And it was beautiful.... 🥺😳
Dude! Seriously. I was an ignorant, indoctrinated to be just binary or die in shame person. But there was THEM on screen, making me question everything I learned about love ONLY by opposite genders. And discover my own identification, as Mishasexual of course.
At first I thought something was wrong with me and my perception since all the tumblr discovering and "influence". -The gays change me, I thought. I binged watched seasons from 4 to 9 to realize THIS IS REAL!
I then joined the circus and start to paint my face, wear a big red nose, use big shoes and ride a ridiculously small bicycle every Thursday at 8pm central.
It was shocking, how scene after scene, from already aired episodes to the new ones. Once Dean and Cas where together on my screen. I had a vivid experience about the concept of Shiping.
Then I went deep in this hell of a fandom =>affectionately<= 🙄. Watching every Con and panel of Misha.... aaaaand discovered Cockles.
I was doomed.
My life went wham! I questioned everything, from my initial attitude about RLS. That at one point considered as disrespectful and silly because the ones in vogue back then I couldn't understand or believe their very existence.
Once you watched 5 heavy Destiel episodes, and 3 Jibcon Cockles Panels, all the internal homophobia or general confusion about genders changes to rainbows and pink puppies that smell like candy and sound like Misha and Jackles laughing.
Well, I took a deep dive in to memory lane here. Just because a simple J2 Shiping ask. Sorry, but not sorry. I love to spread the Cockles gospel and give the good news about the magical duo that saved me from ignorance, propelled me into the land of trash and rainbows. That occupies 70% of my memory's phone between photos of Misha and them together. Usually of Jackles ogling Mish while having a secret boner.
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See? A totally random gif of them on my phone.
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They give me all the emotions. Every feels at once.
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Chaito.
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eisforeidolon · 1 year
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... And inevitably destiel did not become canon again, just like we said it wouldn't. And castiel was not even mentioned by anyone on the show once either.
Any logical heller should have realized by now that it was never going to be a thing.
One would hope that they'd accept the reality and just move on instead of believing in false expectations and made up narratives.
The ending was pretty much same to SPN's original ending. The ending that they thought was meddled by the Evil CW. What did TW change? Now this time it is John x Mary love feast, Sam off-screen living his life so we can focus on Dean, Bobby and Impala appearing, Jack coming back as God, and no mention of Cas again.
It's just ridiculous but sad at the same time. And those heller blogs who led other destihellers on was trash, pure and simple. Any logical person would stop following these ppl who constantly have been proven to be liars. Goob definitely should be ashamed of himself for his delusions as well as demeaning his fans.
Well, the problem is that there really isn't such a thing as logical hellers. I think expecting D/C to be canon in the SPNiverse is fundamentally absurd given ... everything ... about that relationship and those characters. However, even most D/C shippers aren't so divorced from logic as to have been sitting with baited breath last night expecting TW to make it canon.
It's not logical to think Jensen, who has been clear so many times I've lost count that he doesn't see the ship as a thing - at all and especially not from Dean's end? Including post 15x18? Would include it in a show he's making. Logic would tell you if Jensen had actually changed his mind about it and was actually oh-so-mad about the SPN finale because it didn't include Castiel? He wouldn't have had Dean stand there doing nothing but looking like he'd been slapped in the face with a week old dead fish when Castiel was blathering on at him. He wouldn't continue insistently referring to their relationship as brotherly in panels.
But even if we take Jensen out of the equation? We're talking about a show focused on different characters entirely - it isn't even really about Dean. Logic would tell you that no even halfway competent storyteller would waste precious screen time to arbitrarily shove two characters from another show (only there as a framing device to tie the universes together) into a romantic relationship. Especially two characters whose relationship had zero aspects of romance outside of the imaginations of shippers fixating on random colors and similar nonsensical shit. That the hellers expectations were even more illogical, that TW's main storyline itself just existed to create more of those nothingburger "parallels" to ... somehow ... lead to D/C? It made no sense to claim SPN was telling a secret hidden story that just couldn't be main text for reasons when Dean and Castiel were actually onscreen every week, but to claim Jensen specifically made a whole other show about John & Mary to tell that story and STILL decided to not actually tell said story directly instead of using secret signals through the colors of their shirts? That's fucking crazy.
It's completely absurd and yeah, there is some element of genuine concern there. The D/C prophets like Goob have insisted the comet is coming tomorrow so many goddamn times now, to no avail. And each time? Even though SPN is over? The whole thing just resets within a few days to start over again because they're that desperate to believe they haven't invested so much time, energy, and vitriol into something that doesn't exist and will never actually happen. They have to win. It'll happen. Next time, next time for real. That turtleneck looked kinda gay, don't you think it's a sign? [sigh.]
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buckleydiazmp4 · 10 months
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I'm not the original anon who asked about 911 but I am also curious about the Buddie situation? can you tell me abt them?
oh hi!
well here goes my attempt to explain.. them?? i guess?
(decided to put it under the cut bc it's long and i don't wanna disrupt anybody's dash)
i don't know where you stand in terms of supernatural/destiel, but since the last anon asked me abt buddie v destiel in terms of queerbait then i'll take that as a point of comparison
destiel was indeed the main queerbaiting method used by the cw to promote spn. they knew that most of the audience had been watching the show thanks to cas and dean's chemistry and wanted them to be together. however, for many reasons, mainly homophobia or probably chain of command etc etc, they were never gonna make them explicitly canon. so instead they kept.. "amping up"??? the chemistry and the romantic subtext between them enough to keep the audience engaged but keeping plausible deniability. obviously after the last season and the whole bury your gays where they killed off cas, ppl were angry. it was and still is a whole thing bc honestly the cw sucks.
tl:dr #1, destiel was queerbait and ppl who watched spn are now in fear of living through it again when watching other shows
anyways, onto buddie.
ppl who haven't watched 911 but see a lot of buddie content fear that the show is basically doing the same thing, adding little details and subtext between buck and eddie to engage queer viewers or buddie shippers in general and thus have a bigger audience.
what i don't know, but i think is pretty subjective, is if the previous anon would have 911 ruined for them if they started watching, shipping buddie, and then they never got together explicitly in the show.
911 is currently still running and imo there is definitely some amazing chemistry between buck and eddie, not to mention a romantic relationship between them would make total sense.
SPOILERS AHEAD! SKIP THIS PART IF YOU WANT
buck and eddie are pretty much the closest friendship in the show, veering strongly into romantic territory. buck has had a string of catastrophic relationships with women throughout the show, and it's always implied that they don't work because buck needs someone who really knows him, loves him and wants to commit to a serious relationship with him. (eg, a best friend or someone to form a family with).
this particular struggle of buck's is easy to parallel with his relationship with eddie, who has his own relationship problems (including a wife who he separated from, tried to get back together with, and then she died), since he hasn't had any stable love interests.
a crucial part in all of this is christopher, who is of course the person who eddie loves and cares for above all else. chris has had a big say on the way eddie's relationships turn out, because loving eddie means loving chris.
guess who loves chris with his whole heart and is pretty much a second parental figure to him? buck.
between that and the outrageous life-or-death (or psychological distress) situations they have lived through together, there's an unbreakable bond between them. they confide and rely on each other in nearly every aspect of their lives, both during good and bad times.
SPOILERS OVER!
i personally have fun and adore buck and eddie's relationship as it is currently, and yeah, i'd love for them to be canon as much as the next person. but i'd also be okay if they continued to give us the same buddie dynamic we have right now.
there are a lot of meaningful moments and scenes that basically reaffirm how truly close they are even outside the plot they show us on screen. i love that because it's like they're giving us little blank spaces to fill up with headcanons and fics and gifsets and that is so fun!!
but certain ppl are more adamant in their desire to see their relationship develop romantically on-screen. despite not being one of those people, i get why they want that and i sincerely hope they get it!!
but if it doesn't happen, i'll still happily watch the buck and eddie we've been given and cherish all of their interactions. that and of course as i said in the previous ask, i love 911 for a LOT more reasons than just buddie.
tl;dr #2, buddie isn't canon, whether or not it's queerbait depends on who's watching and how they're watching, but 911 is still worth it as a whole.
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castielmacleod · 1 year
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the thing with destiel is how actually heteronormative it is as perceived by the shippers. the need in creating gender roles in a gay ship, the desire for a heternormative like ending with dean and cas' character where they get married, have kids and shit. if i wanted to watch that i'd just watch it a casual straight romance, not this boring ass heteronormative narrative that got slapped into a gay ship. and it is so projecting too... and it's very telling. they imagine destiel to be like this because that's what the shippers want to have themselves, pure projecting and nothing else that much and just boring undertones.
No you’re honestly really correct. Like I know heIIers will swear up and down that D*stiel can’t be heteronormative because it’s two men and I men… yes and no. Because yes it’s two men, but the way you’re treating them in your little invented narrative is so fucking mad that it genuinely seems heteronormative, and that’s in the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is that it’s just flagrantly homophobic lmfao. That is my official Gay Man™ opinion here.
Because it’s not even *just* the idea of two men being married and having a family that’s heteronormative (as unsettling as the whole D*stiel white picket fence thing is—I’ll get to that). It’s the bizarre spin heIIers tend to put on the aforementioned men’s dynamic, and it makes me feel insane.
Readmore for length lol
Like I can’t count how many times I’ve come across D*stiel posts that are supposed to be funny? I think? Where the joke is that Dean feels the need to either “be”, or to treat Cas like, “the woman” in their relationship. Like it’s Dean being weird about who does the housework or takes out the trash, or being all “old ball and chain” about Cas, or Cas being Dean’s “wife”, and shit like that. That is heteronormative as well as homophobic in my opinion, not to mention reductive as hell. But aye sure even Dean’s gross misogyny and homophobia has to be woobified I guess 😐
If these jokes are coming from actual mlm then that’s one thing (still not anything I’m into, still indicative of more than a few issues, but… it’s one thing). A lot of the time though this stuff is just straight up coming from f/u/j/o/s/h/i types which means not only is it heteronormative and homophobic but now it’s also a fetish thing. Especially when it comes to men expressing femininity in any way shape or form, or at least expressing what said fetishists think is feminine for men (i.e. bottoming during sex). It all makes me feel so gross tbh I don’t even want to get into it really.
Then there’s the glaring fact that the two men heIIers are cramming into this Stepford white picket fence ice cream sundae family barbecue suburban Americana rubbish in the first place, are Castiel and Dean Winchester, and that makes it even more insanity-inducing to me personally. Cas is a billions of years old angel. Dean is both a serial killer and a serial abuser. I literally can’t think of a trope more ill-fitting for either of them, especially for Dean. Happy, married, dad!Dean is wildly ooc and quite obviously pure unfettered self-indulgence on the part of Dean fans who just wanted him to be happy for whatever reason, and like. Self-indulgence is fine! We all do it! But let’s call it what it is!
Something that’s also self-indulgence is the “with kids” angle because every aspect of it is just…. simply not what it is in the show. Like obviously there’s the whole making Jack a literal baby thing but in particular my jaw simply drops when not only is someone posting about suburban domestic D*stiel, but is also implying that Claire moves in with them and is just literally their daughter or something?? You have to be wilfully ignorant of soooo many things, not least of all everything Jody’s done for Claire, to make that work and it just blows my mind that people can write this stuff without batting an eye. But if you’ve already invented a completely new Dean anyway then I guess everything’s in the air isn’t it.
There’s also something to be said about how the apparent *epitome* of a happy, peaceful ending for any and all fictional characters is Stepford white picket fence ice cream sundae family barbecue suburban Americana rubbish. But that’s for another essay 😭
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deanncastiel · 1 year
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Do you reckon had Kripke been show runner for longer he would have made destiel cannon earlier and also I feel like if anything destiel would have become cannon in s8 had they made it earlier (regardless of Kripke had made it cannon or not, as maybe he would have done it later in the series?)
oh nonny this is such a good question and while i have thought about it a lot i'm not quite sure i'm 100% here but we shall see what we get shall we
i'm going to break this down into two sections bc i feel like you asked two separate but related questions
so the first question is - would destiel have become canon earlier if kripke had remained show runner for longer - honestly i think no. i think kripke would have been open to it, just based on what i know of the early planning history of spn as well as dean and his character. but given the time period of when he was showrunner + 5 years after that i can't really see it. i think it's easy to forget that we went through 3 showrunners before gay marriage even became legal in the US (country wide that is) and while shows were certainly pushing the envelope back in the early 2010s i don't think even kripke could have pushed for dean and cas to be canon back then, even if he wanted to
but as i said, i don't necessarily think that because kripke wouldn't have been OPEN to deancas being canon. i certainly don't think it was his intention, but i do think that once he knew about the interest, the idea would have intrigued him.... and that's as far as i've thought here, i could go on but it just gets more and more speculative so eh
the second part of the question (as far as i understood) was more of a theory by anon stating that if tptb had been open to destiel it could have gone canon in s8, regardless of if kripke had remained showrunner past s5
i will say that i think jeremy carver was a huge destiel fan and tried hard to make it canon. we don't call it season gr8 for nothing. i will also say that i think sera gamble was a destiel fan in her own right - as much as someone can be a destiel fan while being as homophobic as possible ;alsdjflkas
personally i do think s8 was a test case of jeremy carver and creative directors to make destiel canon and then tptb shut it down and that's why there was barely anything in s9 or s10. so yes, i think if tptb had been more open to dean and cas it may have gone canon in s8 regardless of kripke's involvement. but as i mentioned earlier, we didn't have gay marriage until 2015 and s8 aired between 2012 - 2013. the same societal pressures that i think would have impacted kripke if he had stayed on as showrunner longer would still be in effect here even if tptb were more friendly
i think the more effective question here is actually would destiel have been canon in s13 had tr*mp not gained the US presidency in 2016
that, i think, was the most significant cultural event that potentially impacted destiel becoming canon. i am too tired to go into all the horrors of the tr*mp presidency but needless to say it was very anti-queer. as crazy as it sounds, i do believe that if clinton had won in 2016 we may have gotten destiel earlier
this all to say - personally i'm not mad that we didn't get canon destiel until s15. as one of my friends mentions constantly, if destiel had become canon earlier it would have been subjected to the standard "relationship drama" that shows utilize and honestly i think that would have been a disservice to dean and cas (tho tbf it is a disservice to all relationships that are subject to it).
i'm happy with not getting canon destiel until s15 bc tbh i'm not sure the show could have handled it effectively and i still question their ability if i'm being honest
i'm a big fan of having an ending where fandom creators can take what we have and build in any direction and that's what we have here, as much as i hate the finale.
anyway this was long but hopefully you were able to bare with me aha
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