Since production seems to be ramping up on season 3 do you think there’s any chance Jaskier will catch a break from the whole “everyone hates/doesn’t respect him” thing you wrote about in a post a while back? Because I’m with you in the sense that it’s not as funny as the writers seem to think and it’s actually really depressing when you think about it for any length of time. I want to believe he might finally get a friend or something this season but I don’t trust the writers at all not to just have him be the rest of the character’s punching bag in kaer morhen all this season :(
You know, that's a good question. I'll speculate, but fair warning, almost all of my predictions for S2 were wrong. (lolsob)
(also, for the people just joining us, they are referring to this post)
The showrunner said on twitter that Jaskier is in S3 from the beginning. Now, her predictions also turn out to be inaccurate sometimes as well. XD But if that is the case, I think they will have to develop his relationships with other people,? I think? Just by sheer presence in scenes?
Joey seems to want that, and they seem to let the actors make suggestions?
The actors obviously don't decide the plot or the episode beats, but they do have influence. Joey and Anya both said that they begged for Yennefer and Jaskier to spend a bit more time together. They have both said that relationships fascinates them and they wanted it to have more time, and look what we got! So within reason and within limits, they seem to have influence.
I was absolutely gobsmacked by the bounteous gift of Yenskier that we got. After his relationship with Geralt was sidelined so much, the last thing I expected was to get Jaskier's friendship with Yen onscreen.
So, I learned that there is no way I can predict. But if Jaskier is in it for all or most episodes, and he and Anya are still pushing for further development of their relationship (and the way they talk about it, they very much are) we will at least get that.
In the books, Dandelion is A Lot , but he has a solid spread of people who despise him (Djikstra, lol), complain about him and want to dislike him but who admit they actually like him against their better judgment (Nenneke), hates him (with good reason) then come to love him (Yen), and just plain loves him from first meeting (Geralt and Ciri). Then he has a ton of developed, existing friendships (Zoltan, Yarpen, Dudu, Essi, Milva, Regis, Shani, and on and on), and many many fans.
Hopefully we see more of that. And I was so delighted by his relationship with Yennefer S2 that I'm chomping at the bit for more of that. And dear god, please, I beg them for a crumb of Geralt and Dandelion antics. They are so goddamn entertaining and allow us to see such a great side of Geralt that I love dearly. And I'd kill for some sweet Jaskier and Ciri interactions. (If anyone is interested, I wrote about Jaskier and Ciri's book relationship here)
I am here for the found family and friendships. That's why I show up to anything, be it book, tv, or movie. So I hope we get some more of that.
It's stupid, really. It's nothing more than a dumb joke, an attempt to keep the conversation going — "What do you call a horse that likes to stay up late? A night mare!"
And yet Jaskier sees how the corners of Geralt's mouth curl upwards just for a moment before he composes himself and puts on the same stoic expression he always wears.
"What does it mean when you find a horse shoe on the ground?"
The Witcher rolls his eyes.
"Good luck. But that's just a superst—"
"No, it means some poor horse is walking around in socks."
Geralt is shooting daggers at him, but Jaskier can see that the walls are crumbling.
Thank the gods he never forgets a joke.
"Why couldn't the pony sing?"
No. Not when your smile is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
"Because he was a little hoarse." He flashes the Witcher a cheeky grin as he tells the punchline, and then—
Geralt lets out a snort, loud and sudden and ugly, and yet it is music to Jaskier's ears.
"A little... a little hoarse..." he says and if it wasn't happening right in front of him, Jaskier could almost believe he's dreaming as he sees Geralt giggle.
His nose crunches up and tiny dimples appear on his cheeks as the Witcher is shaken by tiny laughs, unable to hide them even though his face is buried in his hands.
Jaskier watches in silence and stares. He has never seen the Witcher so relaxed, so carefree and happy, and it takes a while before he has calmed down again, a little smile still on his face as he glances over to the bard.
"'Gonna have to try that one on Lambert." Geralt's eyes twinkle, and Jaskier is basking in their light.
He is going to tell jokes more often from now on.
Just wanted to say thank you for your reply and I loved your thoughts netflix Vesemir <3
Though I feel that the major difference between netflix Vesemir and book/game Vesemir is that the latter never had the opportunity to carry out the Trial of the Grasses after the pogrom happened and then Yennefer basically bringing the ability back in Witcher 3. But remember he kept the table that the boy was strapped to during the Trial and all the other implements for all those decades.
We never really learn why he did so but it's hard to imagine anything other than him hoping on some level to get the ability to make new witchers at some point. Which would mean recreating the Trial of the Grasses, which was not just torturous but to the vast majority of boys a death sentence. And this is without touching on everything else he put the boys of the old generation of witchers through, like the Trial of the Medallion.
Not saying people aren't allowed to love him - ffs I love Raistlin Majere and Lord Soth anyone who knows those characters know they're soooo much worse than Vesemir - I guess it just makes me a bit miffed that fandom is so willing to ignore the brutal and frankly abusive side of Vesemir's character because we never see it that clearly on display in the books or in the games so it gets buried in the kindly grandpa image we get in Witcher 3 and then his fate in that game.
It's one of the things I like about s2 though I wish they had dived more into the reaction the other witchers would have to that whole thing. Or you know, at all. Even the game gives more of a reaction to Vesemir having kept Sad Albert than netflix does to what Vesemir does there.
Oh my god yes. Let's talk about Vesemir.
But first...Raistlin Majere...*strokes beard* I haven't heard that name in a long time. (Dragonlance hive rise uuuup)
Ok but yes. On track again. Vesemir. (sorry this gets very long and passionate and ranty)
So first, I shouldn't have mentioned game Vesemir. I should be up front that I don't know anything about him except that I assume he didn't try to dose Ciri. So, unfortunately, I can't speak to that. And it probably explains how I feel about him. I only have book!Vesemir to compare Netflix!Vesemir to. And here is what we know about him from the books.
What we know:
Geralt tells a priestess that Vesemir is his father, or like one. Geralt very obviously loves him.
Geralt tells his mother that Vesemir gave him his name. He says it in a very defensive way, like he values Vesemir for having been there for him. (of course she corrects him, but that is neither here nor there)
Vesemir disciplines him when he is a child for trapping a honeybee.
Vesemir was his tutor.
Both Ciri and Geralt draw on Vesemir's wisdom when they are in tough situations and think fondly of him
In Season of Storms, he is spoken of as the moral center of witcherdom, opposing witchers killing humans and enacting consequences for those who do.
Vesemir's relationship with Ciri
He is protective of her. Triss commends them for not giving her any elixirs or grases or anything that could affect their hormones. But she also demands they stop giving her the natural herbs around the keep, which sound like some kind of supplements. Vesemir responds gratefully and pledges to do so. He very humbly and quickly says
"we will," promised Vesemir, "and thank you for the warning, child."
He is gentle with her. When Geralt loses his temper with Ciri in a very emotional moment, Vesemir says:
"too severe, Wolf," said Vesemir. "Much too severe..."
He is a patient tutor, drilling her on monster facts, and offering her advice that she calls on later in her life:
"That's why you're learning about ghouls now, Ciri. When you know about something, it stops being a nightmare. When you know how to fight something, it stops being so threatening."
So does that make him an uncomplicated or of morally pure character? No. We know that the trials killed most boys and were horrific. And he was a tutor there. So he was complicit to a certain degree.
Now that is where the most fascinating shit comes from with Vesemir. The mages created witchers, right? The mages created the trials. They ran them. Vesemir was their victim in that sense. He was a boy too.
But at what point does he stop becoming a victim and start being seen as complicit? Is there a certain age or level of consciousness where it stops being ok and he can be seen as an agent of the mages?
There is this whole blank spot in between the pogroms and the present. The questions that most fascinate me are:
Did Vesemir ever believe that what they were doing was wrong?
Did he ever resist or leave? If so, what brought him back?
How closely did he identify himself with his identity and with the mages.
Did he tell the boys what their risks were?
Did he walk them to the laboratories?
How dirty are his hands?
How does he feel about that now?
And now in the present, he is a normal, gentle person. Further, he isn't just a normal person, he is an active positive moral guide for all of witcherdom, and a kindly man that Ciri calls "Uncle Vesemir."
So how did that happen?
I am deeply, deeply just...meh on what Netflix has created for him. It is so anticlimactic for me. They have him (basically) murdering an innocent women in cold blood for money (Nightmare of the Wolf) and then (we hope)
turning a 180 after the seige on Kaer Morhen.
I didn't really buy that and it didn't take into account AT ALL the power structure of the mages vs the witchers. You can have complicated morally gray characters that are nuanced. They are both oppressed and complicit. And they made it like...well, witchers were making monsters that was slaughtering people. So basically that and Vesemir's actions were the instigating forces resulting in the attempted pogroms.
No, no one deserves to be killed for something someone else did (only one of the witchers was making the monsters) but in a world where they have people's limbs and heads chopped off on the spot for minor crimes, you can see how it very predictably led to that.
Instead of institutional racism and bigotry, their destruction was the result of legitimate complaints against them simply taken too far. That is so goddamn uninteresting and simplistic and it doesn't take into account the structure of oppression for witchers.
If they were out here murdering villagers with their monsters, an eye for an eye didn't feel to extreme for these people. Did they deserve a trial? Did people lump them together because of bigotry? Yes. But it played a relatively minor role.
So, the progroms are complicated and Vesemir is complicated and there is a lot of room there for imagining how his story went. But I'm just really think that, as great as Nightmare was as a movie, (it was fantastic just as a movie) as an origin story it was a disappointment. But AT LEAST they set him up for redemption. But then in TWN the man hadn't even changed!!
By the time of the current time, he is supposed to be kindly, gentle, and protective of Ciri!! There is no indication anywhere that he would be alright with anyone doing trials on her, quite the opposite.
I hope you don't regret asking me this question about now. XD I have so many feels. I'm so compelled by Vesemir's story because he is a very very favorite archetype of mine within the witcher.
Person is part of institution, perhaps they got there as a kid. They didn't choose with all the knowledge or in a critical way.
Person finds out institution is abusive or corrupt. They have to make a choice. Yen was like this with the Brotherhood. Cahir with the Nilfgaardian military.
And I feel like Vesemir is this for the witchers. He was brought into the system as a victim. At some point he became complicit, and we don't know to what degree and we don't know what that looked like. But it HAS to make his relationship with the wolves complicated.
I know the games complicate up his relationship with Lambert, and I think that is very fitting and very logical extension of this. It seems like Geralt just loves and forgives whatever role Vesemir had. But not every witcher could respond that way, right? Or should!
So it's fascinating! And complex! And then TWN just has him be an absolute piece of shit, accepting "consent" from a traumatized grieving child, betraying Geralt, BRINGING BACK THE TRIALS SINGLE HANDEDLY WHAT THE FUCK.
I mean you CAN do that? But why would you? He should be a loving figure with a very complicated past, not just a big old turd lololsob.
So now TWN Vesemir is on my shit list. Fuck with Ciri and fuck with Geralt and we're over. I've got him on page one in my burn book. I don't care how hot your ho ass was in NOTW. loloool
That's a fitting place to end this.