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#tropes are things in books and same with character archetypes
starswallowingsea · 2 years
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I've been thinking about this because of the shitty ads for contemporary YA romance going around and the way books are marketed using an extreme amount of fanfiction tropes and almost nothing else. Like yes tropes ARE a part of literature and can be used to help catalogue books and movies in archives and such but they aren't supposed to be supplements for summaries and plot.
Like if you tell me something is contemporary YA which follows a businesswoman struggling at her job and trying to figure out why she's unhappy slowly getting closer to the local cafe barista when she stops in over the course of the novel and she goes on a journey of self discovery and etc etc that would at least tell me what the book is about. I probably wouldn't read it or like it if I read it because I don't like contemporary YA romance but I at least know what it's about and would be able to recommend it to someone if they were looking for something similar.
But if you took that same book and ONLY told me it was contemporary YA romance, slowburn, and coffee shop, that doesn't really tell me anything about the characters or why I should care. These are original characters I can't just look at ao3 tags and be like "oh yeah I like these characters already I want to see them in this specific scenario" these are original characters and you have to give me a reason to care. When I'm looking for a book to read I'm looking for a book, not a fanfiction for something I already like. If I wanted to read fanfiction I would read it. Publishing fanfiction doesn't not make it fanfiction and describing books exclusively in fanfiction tropes and nothing else does not a good book advertisement make. They are not a replacement for an actual summary, they are a tool that can help quickly identify books in a catalogue or archive if someone is looking for something to read.
This isn't to dunk on fanfiction! I write and read fanfic but it's more akin to the junk food of the literature world. It's good and yummy and can fill in a specific niche in internet communities, but it shouldn't make up your entire literature consumption, yknow?
Also for fucks sake, stop describing classical literature with fanfiction tropes you are doing a severe disservice to them and completely missing the point of literally all those books. If I have to see one more person describe Pride and Prejudice as "enemies to lovers" I will scream.
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booksandcleverness81 · 10 months
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Coming out of hibernation just to say that Love, Theoretically was a good book. No, a great book. I like Ali Hazelwood's formula, I like her characters, I LOVE that she writes about women in STEM and uses her books to advocate for fairer practices in academia.
Modern romances are almost all written with the same general structure. I read a lot of them (and write some), and while some tell a really good story and create memorable characters, the majority are generic cookie cutter stories that I forget about as soon as I close the book.
Most romance characters are archetypes. Most plotlines are derivative. There is always miscommunication. Popular tropes are popular for a reason.
Ali's specific version of this genre has tall grumpy men who are misunderstood. It has academic collaborations that force proximity. It has quirky women trying to figure out how to human while unpacking trauma, fighting mysogeny, and dealing with inconvenient feelings they don't know how to navigate for men they don't realize are their biggest advocates. Then they have a happy ending where everyone gets what they deserve and progress has been made in the STEM world.
This is Ali's universe. I loved it the first time, I loved it the second time, I enjoyed it in her novellas, and to no one's surprise - I loved it this time. If she keeps creating complex characters that I can actually care about and root for (something many romances fail to do) then I will keep reading. Hell, if every single man in her books continued to be an Adam Driver clone I would never tire of it, because a well written romance is a well written romance.
If you do not enjoy Ali's formula, why are you still reading her books? Just stop. We all like different styles, tropes, character types, etc. and I'm not judging anyone for not enjoying her writing. But it feels to me like the big complaint is that she has written a romance... And it's familiar... And we'll, duh. So few romances stand out to me, I feel this way about most romance authors. It's all the same in some way or another. But Ali's writing speaks to me, her stories move me, her characters feel familiar and comfortable in a way I rarely find in other books, and in a world where 1000's of romances are published every year, I feel like we can all find our own version of that without shitting on a talented author who writes books that a lot of people love.
We all have the option to DNF and move on with our lives if something isn't our preference. Let people like things. That's all I wanted to say.
Thanks, Ali. Love, Theoretically was sublime.
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that-ari-blogger · 2 months
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A New Face (Separate Tides)
During its second season, The Owl House had hit its stride and wasn't slowing down. This is my favourite season, and that isn't an unpopular sentiment.
Separate Tides is the opening episode of this season, so it needs to recap the previous goings on and themes in a cohesive way for new viewers, and take the series in a different direction that stays loyal to those themes and plotlines. I think this episode does that well.
But this isn't a summary blog, this is a blog where I find something needlessly specific and gush about the implications of that something.
So... The Golden Guard is so ****ing cool.
Let me explain.
SPOILERS AHEAD (The Owl House, The Harry Potter Series)
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I've mentioned in the past that The Owl House uses archetypal storytelling to a truly masterful degree. It takes tropes and meets them on a superficial level, then twists them in a way that adds depth and makes the series unique.
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For example, the series is directly drawing inspiration from the works of Robert Galbraith, with Willow being the bullied kid with a passion for herbology, and Amity being the school bully who definitely has a crush on the main character. Both take the archetype and shake it up a bit, as is the way with parody, but the baseline is there.
This leans into the themes of being your own person rather nicely, as it makes the deviations from the archetype more important.
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I took great pains to point out that Luz is the only character who doesn't fit the mould at all. She has no analogue and is her own person completely. She has nothing to restrict her.
However, leaves the analogue for the actual protagonist of Galbraith's books. Obviously, not every character from the series is parodied, but the chosen one main character seems like a weird one to miss out on.
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I would argue that Mr Potter does have an analogue, Hunter Whittebane (Or Hunter Noceda or Hunter Demonne or even Hunter Clawthorn. Whichever name you prefer, its the same guy).
He is a child soldier, raised by his uncle and manipulated into giving his life away for the cause by an old wizard. He bears a scar on his face, and is technically half witch, half human.
Although we don't actually see any of that in Separate Tides. Instead, we are introduced to the Golden Guard, a character who is suave and cool and confident.
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The first time we actually see this character is in the final scene of the previous season.
"Worry not, Kiki. We'll be keeping an eye on the inhabitants of the Owl House."
The Golden Guard is a goon, an elite goon, but a goon none the less. He is simply a character whom Belos turns to in order to get the job done.
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But, I find the use of vernacular here interesting. Belos doesn't refer to the Golden Guard with any name, or even as a separate entity from himself. Not "he will be watching them" or "this is the Golden Guard, I trust him to get the job done". This character is referred to as "we". He and Belos are connected. This character is simply Belos' eye.
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Then, in Separate Tides, it is established that, when Lilith fell from grace, she was replaced by the Golden Guard.
"He always got special treatment because he was the genius teen prodigy. But he's really just a brat."
So, this is a child, but a gifted child. Lilith is dismissive here, but not of the Golden Guard's skill, just his personality. This is someone for whom things come naturally, allegedly, and who has never had to work for his abilities. Allegedly.
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"Unfortunately, you won't have the chance."
The Golden Guard's first line is just cool. He is calm and collected. He is in control. And he has just easily captured one of the protagonists.
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I also love the little fact that he has spent the entirety of this voyage in a dimly lit room, eating crackers. The room has nothing to do in it except books. So, he was definitely just sitting there, reading, and had to improvise when King burst into the room. He's a bookworm with an ability to think on the spot.
I'm saying this guy would definitely play Pathfinder or D&D if he was given a chance.
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Anyway, the Golden Guard's actual introduction comes fourteen minutes into the episode, and it immediately sets this guy up as a threat. He's martially competent, magically adept, and fully in his element. This is a character who revels in control, just like the Emperor.
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And that link to Belos is interesting. Because forgive me for asking, why would an Emperor's elite goon be a child? As in, there has to be a connection to Belos beyond what meets the eye for the Golden Guard to be anywhere near where he is.
We don't get told that here, but we do see that this character's skillset is kinda similar to Belos', in theory. He's commanding, and he gets people to do what he wants. But in practice, this isn't Belos at all. This is someone trying very hard to be like Belos, but coming at it from a different angle.
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I do, however, think that the Golden Guard's greatest strength as a goon is revealed subtly in this scene.
"The Emperor ordered me to slay one. I'm just following orders."
We've seen through Lilith in the previous season that Belos covets blind loyalty, and that is what the Golden Guard offers him. He doesn't know or care why the Emperor does what he does, he just follows orders.
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Essentially, the Golden Guard is a traditional Disney villain at this point. He is fun, bisexual, charismatic, and a physical threat. The Golden Guard we get introduced to is enjoyable to watch, and it sounds like Zeno Robinson is having a blast voicing him.
However, there is one element of the Golden Guard that we get introduced to in this episode that might fly under the radar. The Owl House is no stranger to masks, and people putting on a show to get the job done, but when we are first shown the Golden Guard in this episode, he is taking it off.
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The intro sequence of this season features three characters who are under Belos' command. Lilith, The Golden Guard, and Kikimora. It then unmasks them, with Lilith becoming apologetic, and Kikimora becoming more aggressive. But the Golden Guard sits between them, removing his own mask to reveal... a single purple eye.
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The eye is the window to the soul, of course. But there is something to the manner in which this is happening. Kikimora has been angered to the point of lashing out, and Lilith has been brought low with remorse. The Golden Guard, however, is lowering his own mask and staring directly at you with an air of "I'm doing this of my own accord. I see you, you see me, your move."
I wonder if agency is going to be a theme with this character.
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Final Thoughts
I love Hunter so much it is obscene, and there is a ton of ambiguity about him right from the bat. What is his stake in this? Who actually is he? And why does he have a purple eye?
As for the rest of this episode, Luz's guilt is starting to be expressed. In my opinion that is for the first time, but I have heard it said that this isn't a new character trait for her.
And Lilith... *sighs* There is a sentiment online as to the expedience of Lilith's redemption arc. Some people like it, others think she should have been "punished" more, and I would like to take a third rout.
I don't believe in punitive justice for fictional characters, and I certainly don't believe in telling writers how they should write. I do, however, think that it could have been slightly more interesting if the consequences of cursing Eda were explored more psychologically.
In any case, however, the series we got is the series we got, and I think it is perfectly fine, if not better, as it is. I don't see a point in getting angry online over what could have been.
Next week, I am looking as Escaping Expulsion and boy, do I have thoughts about Odalia Blight. So, stick around if that interests you.
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writtenroses1813 · 1 month
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Hot takes I think I should be put in witness protection for (these are just my opinions pls don’t feel offended if you like these tropes):
Enemies to lovers tropes needs to stop being so fetishized. When someone takes their significant other (either real, contractual, or arranged) by the THROAT and THROWS THEM AGAINST A WALL that is NOT “sexual tension” that is ABUSE.
Characters having a strong platonic relationship in which they are open to showing affection to each other does not automatically mean they have to be love interests. Let people have friends
Rivals (ESPECIALLY academically) does not automatically mean they are love interests. Because people are both good at the same thing and therefore competitive does not mean they have hidden feelings
Badass women (especially in fantasy settings) don’t have to be fully “battle forged” or whatever. They can have hobbies and the other women who are often looked at as “meek” and “damsels” are not any less badass for liking to sew or cook. Those hobbies are not “anti-feminist” just because they were what were expected of us women before rights. We have simply commandeered them for our own tastes and purposes
Blond hair male leads aren’t a turnoff
Just because a book has the same tropes used as another does not make it a “rip off” of said other book. Tropes are used just like character archetypes and the freaking alphabet. By that logic all books in the English language are a rip off of the freaking dictionary.
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unexpectedgeese · 1 year
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I’ve been thinking about how ORV is like, 100% made to help teenagers like KDJ cope with the Horrors. The prose, the tropes in the beginning, the length of it, the themes– All of it!
Those first three are simple, and I already lost a draft of this to the Tumblr gods, so I’ll keep it quick.
PROSE: as @kimdokja pointed out in a post a while back, ORV sits firmly at the reading level of your average high schooler. This is intentional; It’s a story for those highschoolers, so it stays simple so it doesn’t alienate anyone.
TROPES: I’m pretty sure someone’s already talked about how ORV sets the stage up in the beginning so it can subvert itself later– that’s not what I’m here to say. I’m here to point out how ORV HARDCORE presents itself as a power fantasy. In the beginning, Kim Dokja’s the archetypal power fantasy self-insert character. He’s got a purposefully vague appearance, a cold and ruthless demeanor in the early scenarios (don’t say otherwise, I’ve SEEN the comments on the webtoon), and the world’s most overpowered cheat of knowing everything ever. 
The length, too, plays a big part in this. By giving us 500-some odd chapters of story, Sing-Shong is letting the reader engage with ORV’s themes over time, cloaking them in Cool Scenes to make the experience fun as well as helpful– and they’re giving their audience an escape from the real world, which!! Is both what KDJ had in WoS, and!!! When paired with the book’s later conclusion of ‘books great, but real world also great’, is a really gentle way of getting the audience to not Kim Dokja themselves into inexistance!
The Prose, the Tropes, and the Length are all the ‘how’ of it: ORV uses them to attract their target audience and keep that audience engaged. 
But… What’s that? It’s the Themes, coming in wiTH A STEEL CHAIR?!?!??!
That’s right! The themes of ORV. We’ve talked about these a LOT in the ORV community. But today, I have a different thesis on them:
*Almost every single one of ORV’s themes is hand-tailored to help struggling teenagers.*
(read more, bc this post boutta be LONG.)
If you try, you can point out a lot of examples of this!
The idea of people being able to do bad things without being a bad person, for example, is something I personally really needed to hear when I was younger. And KDJ’s character development from being this closed off non-character to letting down his walls, making friends, and giving a shit about his own life is a really strong argument for the reader doing the same, made all the stronger by its focus on what was originally an emotionless self-insert for the reader. The importance of reaching out across boundaries is a big argument for asking people for help/making friends, etc. etc– I could do this all day.
But my favorite example of this is KDJ’s relationship with WoS. Because it manages to stress the importance of livin through more than just stories without, in any way, vilifying the readers who use them to cope, by portraying stories as both important (you can understand things from new angles, feel new things, cope with reality) and ultimately limiting (you can’t understand someone fully from just reading about them, in order to be loved you need to be seen, reading together > reading alone, KDJ taking down his walls, etc.).
And it’s just like… MAN. This really is a story written for just that one reader (you)...
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avelera · 1 year
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Archetypes are fine and originality isn't as important as you think
I think one of the most shocking things I learned in my writing class when we brought in a professional agent to lecture was that they really, really don't want your original story idea.
Agents and publishers want to know where to put your book on the shelf. They want to know which recent books it resembles, not super-hits like Game of Thrones. When they ask "What two books is this book like?" they want recent, practical examples of which non-Bestselling authors' work your work most resembles. Nothing turns them off faster than "This is totally original" / "This is like nothing you've ever seen."
Similarly, most audiences don't want totally original. I don't mean that pejoratively. We joke in the fanfic world that everyone just wants to read their favorite ship falling in love over and over but... that is actually true. That is an engaged audience. That said, fatigue does set in when all the fics or books begin to sound exactly the same, so what's the deal there, huh?
The deal is: agents, publishers, and audiences want the familiar thing they know they love with your unique spin on it that only you as a writer can create.
Now, my theory on how to achieve this, as a pre-pro who thinks about this a lot but doesn't claim to have a solution, is that this is what, "Write what you know," really refers to. Not that garbage your high school English teacher told you that you shouldn't set a story in a fantasy world because you've never lived there.
No, what "write what you know" means in fanfic is: take these characters and filter them through your personal experience and/or your interests. Which are also things you know. That can mean "I put them in a Coffeeshop AU because I've actually worked in a coffee shop and I want to show y'all what it's really like there" to "I'm personally interested in explorations of grief so I want to do hurt/comfort for these two around grief," or any other number of variations. It's why a weird concept written passionately is 10x more interesting than trying to chase what's "popular" in fandom, people want to see the uniqueness brought by the simple fact that you are writing it. You can give 10 authors the same prompt and they'll end up with 10 wildly different fics, I guarantee you, that's why no one gets tired of the same tropes being played over and over.
Now, for original fiction, at which I have less practice but which I think about a lot because I want to change that, I think again people get too hung up on being totally original and in this case I want to talk about a tendency to design an "original character" by focusing all the little details of their character before they start writing. The thing is, a lot of those little details don't matter. (It's better to start with an archetype and layer on those details, but we'll get to that.) There's danger in that, in part because your character needs to have an arc where they change between the beginning and the end, more than we need to know details like their favorite foods. Their favorite food should be whatever is most thematically relevant in the moment.
IE, when writing a story about losing a parent, whatever the parent made for them is their favorite food. When writing about someone who needs to reconnect with their inner child, greasy Pizza Hut pizza might be their favorite food because it's about something that gives the character pleasure that doesn't play to adult expectations on them. See? Knowing they like Pop Tarts jus because they like Pop Tarts is utterly meaningless, unless for example, you the author loves Pop Tarts and you know you can write a stirring monologue about how amazing Pop Tarts are that will make the audience feel your characters adoration of Pop Tarts. But you can substitute literally any food and write the same monologue, it has to either have emotional resonance or plot relevance, otherwise it doesn't matter what the food is.
But going back to characters, I think just starting with an archetype, adding a few details from your own life that you know you can write authentically, and then kicking this character through the mousetrap maze of your plot, really goes a lot further in making them unique than any amount of pre-planning of details that get you bogged down. And most popular characters reduce down to Archetype + Story-Relevant Details pretty damn quickly when you look at them.
Here's an example:
Last of Us = is a Lone Wolf and Cub archetype, ie, grizzled man takes a dependent child on a dangerous journey. That it's a post-apocalyptic landscape riddled by zombies tweaks the necessities of what skills the characters like Joel and Ellie need to survive. Add some author relevant details - he's from Texas but he lives in Boston now, he had a daughter who died (relevant to the plot, which is him adopting a "new" daughter), and he is former military and a blue-collar worker who therefore has the skills to survive in this setting, and you've got a pretty solid character that people grasp and people love right away, especially the more humanizing moments you throw in there, like the moment we see him break down when his daughter dies.
It should also be remembered: passion is what is needed here. You don't pick a trope you hate unless you're setting out to subvert it. You pick details that you care about and that you want to write about. Everything needs to be things you authentically care about writing and innovating on because you're gonna spend a lot of time with this story, more than anyone else. But the idea that one needs to start whole cloth, rather than focusing on the tropes, stories, archetypes, and personal experience that you care about, is utter nonsense and in fact does not actually sell.
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alexiaugustin · 1 year
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season two of shadow and bone should have shown absolutely every last fucking person that this show is a soulless piece of trash adaptation that doesn’t understand nor gives two fucks about the source material they're allegedly trying to adapt and that the people behind this show were all lying to your faces when they apologized for the things that upset people for 24 hours before season one streamed two years ago, because after all this show still erases the trauma of a woman’s sexual abuse story and they are still sexualizing bisexual people and they are still fucking everything about these characters and their dynamics up.
season one should have upset most people enough to stop stanning this show but during the last two years we have learned that there’s A Lot that the tv industry can do that people won’t care about. an ableist, colorist and fatphobic and age inaccurate casting that hurts people by taking their representation away is something people won’t care about. complex characters being reduced to an inch of what they actually are like so they and their relationship can neatly fit into archetypes, tropes and ao3 tags is something people won’t care about. showrunners getting exposed for having their white stunt doubles do brownface is something people won’t care about. a show having a dumb script that makes everyone on the show look like a fucking loser is something people won’t care about.
and now season two is out and they did everything they already did in season one wrong but it’s somehow still so much worse. after watching season one i felt like the deeply offensive and wrong things about this show were still explainable, season two actually has me at loss for words because of how bad it is. because of how there’s not a single thing they did right about the soc books; not the characters, not their relationships, not their storyline, nor the world they live in. i could give a few examples like the fact that kaz told inej that feeling as if she’s not really free from the menagerie where she was sex trafficked as a child "isn’t her fight anymore, it’s his“ just because pekka rollins owns her now. or the fact that wylan and jesper met via a one night stand and were fucking by episode four even tho they don’t even kiss before the end of ck. or that they turned pekka rollins into a super villain who wants to kill kaz even though the whole point of his role in the books is that he has no idea why kaz has it out for him and he doesn’t care abt these teenagers.
i could explain all these and so many more examples in depth, and still it wouldn’t be enough to capture the the true scope of how bad and truly horrible this show is. and yet. and yet when i log into tumblr dot com or twitter dot com i see gifsets of this show, of the relationships they don’t understand, of the characters they butchered and i'm seeing people rooting for another season of this nonsense. at this point this show feels like a social experiment that’s trying to see how far people will go to defend a deeply offensive and atrociously bad piece of media. and during the last 48 hours i've come to realize that some of y'all will never be able to be pushed too far. some of y’all had their brains rotted away a long time ago when tiktok and ao3 made you believe that media is nothing more than the consumption of aesthetics, tropes and archetypes and that it’s a good thing if these are responsible for the death of art. if you claim to love the book and the show at the same time you are lying to yourself because that is simply impossible. you have, in short, truly lost the fucking plot.
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asha-mage · 3 months
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Lesbian Rand AU?
[Send me a potential AU and I'll answer with five things from that story!]
Oh boy, here we go-
A lot depends on the setup. A big part of Rand's character is reckoning with the failures of his past life and the foundation of a lot the interesting ways Jordan interrogates the gender binary is built on the idea that those mistakes are a remix of Paradise Lost/The Fall. LTT is at both at once Eve and Lucifer. Eve in that he acts without the consent or permission of his other half (Latra Posae Decume- the Adam of this version) and runs of on his own in defiance of her will. Lucifier in that in his pride, he believes he can match or surpass the Creator, by attempting to Seal the Bore with only saidin. As a result, paradise is lost- the AoL is destroyed in the breaking by LTT's sin, an entire Age results where all men take the blame to a greater or lesser extent, for the original sin of one man. Of course, Jordan isn't just running with this premise as simple fact- he's interrogating the idea of original sin, salvation, and redemption and raising inherent and complicating questions. Does it make a difference that LTT's intentions where pure and genuine? That he didn't know and couldn't have predicted the consequences of his actions? How does Rand suffering for LTT's do any justice to those who suffered and died in the Breaking? Is chasing the splendor of an Age that could shatter so even a worthwhile endeavor, or should the focus be on building letting go of the past and building something new? Does that mean forgetting and forgiving and is that fair?
All this to say is that, I think for a Lesbian Rand AU to work the story would probably need a reversed gender dynamic to the one that is present in the books- which I don't know that I could ever write both because it would veer very uncomfortably close to the most misogynistic elements of our own historical societies, and probably have to exceed them in brutality to work (something I'm not very good at, since a lot of my world building energy is usually directed at reshaping and re interpenetrating those historical societies through more queer and equitable lenses), and because a lot of what I connect to in Rand's story has a lot to do with the specifically queer male reading of it. That said if I could or would do that, I think it could also work very effectively as a queer female reading in the same thematic ways.
Rand and male channelers in general in the WoT verse already full fill a lot of the tropes commonly associated with medieval witches- individuals tainted by otherworldly power that is poorly understood and inherently transgressive to the gender roles of their society, as well as threat to the established social order (to put it mildly). It's not hard to translate that to a theoretically tainted saidar and the feelings of a resulting broken world onto a theoretical female Dragon. Rand in this context fulfills a pretty familiar role- Joan of Arc, Himiko of Yamatai, Elizabeth Woodvile, etc- savior and hero to some, witch and monster to others.
My brain of course goes to female Mat to be Rand's love interest in this AU- trickster and guile heroine. Mat's specific brand is easy to imagine transcending into a female character in a strict patriarchy, both because Mat's role in the series is already pretty gender transgressive (as befits a trickster shapeshifting archetype), and because it's easy to imagine again that simmering homoerotic temptation Mat and Rand's relationship inherently invokes, but gender flipped: Mat representing a liberation a refusal of the traditional gender roles that Rand can't quite decide if she truly wants or only wants because she was raised to want them. Rand specifically being homosexual rather then my bisexual head canon means that, I would probably air on the side of it being compulsory heterosexuality/heteronormativity- and genuinely wanting the life of adventure and liberty offered by Mat's promises of running away together.
I could also see Min (again as her Gender Weird makes her surprisingly easy to translate into a traditional patriarchy without loosing core elements of her character) as Rand's love interest- again in largely the same role as the series. Someone who Rand could just be....herself around, who couldn't overawed or terrified or brow beaten into seeing a monster, but rather just a person- a woman sacred and overwhelmed and being crushed by the expectations of a savior, and all the fears of being a monster. Conversely I don't know that either Avihenda or Elayne's relationships would still function the same- not without flipping their genders as well which defeats the idea of the premise. A few extra thoughts (since 1 and 2 are basically just big disclaimers)-
While I find the idea of Lesbian Rand having to learn from Short Gay Ball of Anger Uncle Moiraine very funny conceptually (Moiraine is already a pretty strong riff of mentor characters like Obi Wan and Gandfalf, but genderflipped, and I find the idea flipping that back but keeping the more unique aspects of Moiraine's character to be interesting), I also can't help but find the idea of Moiraine as an older, slightly rattled/mad, female wilder Moiraine with the same motivation as in the series just as intriguing as a mentor figure to Lesbian Rand. It would give the entire series a very different vibe, but that's just a natural outcome of the premise as well. I once said Moiraine is a woman who, if she had be born into a patriarchy would have easily been burned as a witch- but the truth is, the idea of Moiraine as a witch to clever to burn, a witch who is surviving the curse of her power, and struggling to see the savior who may yet be able to reverse that curse and save their world...their is an Appeal There.
It's scary conversely, how easy it is to fit the Aes Sedai in general into a gender flipped Randland, and I think speaks to how effectively Jordan wrote them and their institutionally flaws. Mired in traditions, secure in their power, comfortable in ordering the world to their will- a mix between the Catholic Church and an order of magi, angry and resistant to reform and change that alters the base of their power, presided over by ancient and yet ageless cabals of entrenched elders. The scene, easily one of my favorites, in the series, in Fal Dara, is almost sickeningly easy to imagine with the genders flipped- a young woman still bright eye and scarred of what she is and what she is capable of, with three thousand years of tales of women going mad from power, declaring themselves the Dragon falsely in greed and lust for power and leaving the world to suffer for it, walking into a a room with three ancient wizards who tell her that this is her fate, to be this messiah and destroyer both, it hits sharply and exactly the right way.
Again, I don't know that I would do it, and I find what Jordan is doing with gender and sexuality already int he Wot Books inherently more interesting and....less....I don't know sticky? But it's a fun thought exercise.
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carica-ficus · 4 months
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Review: "Gideon the Ninth"
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Author: Tamsyn Muir
Date: 03/12/2023
Rating: ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
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I'm going to be honest, I completely forgot I had to write a review for this book, which is weird for me because, first and foremost, I love writing reviews for the books I read and, second, I love writing reviews for the books I loved. But I found myself at a stalemate with this one, mostly because I'm not sure what to say. There's a lot of things to appreciate in "Gideon the Ninth", and I'm a little intimidated by the fact I have to try and do them justice in this short text. Still, I'm going to try.
"Gideon the Ninth" follows the story of a necromancer, Harrowhark Nonagesimus, and her cavalier, Gideon Nav, as they embark on a journey to the First House where Harrow has to find a way to ascend to Lyctorhood (which is something like becoming necromancer supreme). Of course, they're not the only ones who partake in the assignment - they are joined by the representatives of the other seven houses who are there for the same goal. Harrow and Gideon are forced to find the answer, while at the same time trying to best the others at the same game. They soon find out that a lot more is at stake than they originally thought, and the tension only grows as all of them realize they are also being hunted by someone or something.
The book starts off relatively slow, with a very long introduction which spaces off into multiple chapters. A gradual beginning might not interest every reader, but it proves crucial for this story. Muir carefully constructs the basis for her novel, at first offering little insight to all the numerous characters. By choosing Gideon as her narrator for the book - a character who is genuinely confused by the setting and isn't interested in dull formalities - Muir manages to portray everything in a very laic manner. Hence, the reader learns about the world and its characters at the same pace as the lead.
Furthermore, this also allows the reader to develop a strong connection with Gideon, whose laid back, facetious personality offers a lot of room for the reader to relate to her. She presents a stark contrast to Harrow, a focused and stubborn necromancer, which Muir consequently uses to create an interesting and exciting dynamic between them. Their relationship is a perfect blend of planned versus impulsive, where Harrow will act out of intelligence, and Gideon out of curiosity or instinct.
Characters are definitely Muir's specialty, and it is evident on her writing how much time and effort she puts into them. Even though all the side characters are also necromancers accompanied by their cavaliers, every pair offers a different dynamic. Moreover, every pair comes from a different planet, so their personalities, behavior and gestures directly add onto the worldbuilding in a way which is not forced, but still informative enough. On the other hand, sometimes the characters felt a little too over the top, feeling like a projection of an archetype, rather than lifelike peple. But I digress, in this specific novel it is more of an advantage, than a drawback.
The story structure is not revolutionary, nor is the idea behind it, but it is presented in an interesting and refreshing way. Similarly, there are a few cliché moments, especially between Gideon and Harrow, but they are incredibly well written, so they don't feel lax. Instead, they offer an exciting and emotional scene which only benefits from the use of a popular trope. Muir has an astounding ability to present something that has already been seen in a new light, which gives "Gideon the Ninth" a nostalgic and familiar note, without making it too analogous to other works of fiction.
High stakes, tension, and action definitely don't lack in this book. Even though the beginning is somewhat timid, the growing build up of mystery manages to completely overthrow the initial dreariness. There's quite a few well thought-out fight scenes, layered with striking moves and exciting moments. The very end of the book features an extensive, flashy final fight that spreads out onto dozens of pages. Needless to say, it is a perfect finish for such an thrilling novel and won't leave any reader unmoved.
I had very high expectations from "Gideon the Ninth" and I must say, it didn't disappoint. What's more, this is one of my absolutely favorite books I read throughout 2023. It offers so much, from an interesting story to a riveting resolution, but its gorgeous, compelling and engaging characters are undeniably its greatest asset. I warmly recommend it to anyone looking for an unforgettable sci-fi story packed with action and peppered with good, honest humor.
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the-owl-tree · 1 year
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oh my GOD I love your isekai warriors au.... I love that the isekai trope is becoming a lot more popular, especially in anime... please tell me more about it!!
shaking ur hand rn hello fellow isekai anime/other mediums fan :3c FIRST lemme go on my tangent about this genre and my main inspo because wow this got way too long lol
isekai is total comfort food for me haha it's my go to genre of manga/manwha/webcomic reading whenever i'm feeling down and while i generally feel the genre is getting bloated and somewhat stale in anime, i still enjoy it quite a bit. It's a cute idea with a lot of potential, i just wish less of the shows went for the wish fulfillment route of things since we have so many by now.
mine is very inspired by a lot of korean manwha style stories in which the protag gets trapped in a show/game/book/etc. and has to deal with it, specifically what if you became the villain of a story. A lot of them play off the trope of the one dimensional evil villainess and how an average person would have to deal with coming into the body of someone like that and dealing with consequences. That, or it's the tragic villain, someone's who's life is marred by tragedy usually of their own doing.
The most interesting ones are those that play on how character archetypes would actually work in the story. The cold bad boy is just a shitty abusive guy, the shy guy who follows the girl is kind of a stalker, and so on.
One of my bigger inspirations was a plotline that also stuck out to me: a teen girl who died too soon and got reincarnated as the mother of the protagonist. obviously she has no clue what to do, she's a kid who wants to go home! And the only way she thinks she can is by ensuring the story goes as planned (and this of course is doomed from the start, unbeknownst to her, the villain is a reincarnater too and has already made tremendous changes). She dies and the reader never knows if she gets to go home or not. It's kind of this rough around the edges gem of an idea that I love and obviously had to steal for myself.
note for anyone getting intrigued by my descriptions uh a lot of these stories tend to be pretty shallow in their exploration. this subgenre consists a lot more of wish fulfillment/revenge fantasies comparatively to like a deep dive of "oh my god i've fucked up the narrative". Not to say they don't have interesting ideas! many are super interesting. just like. temper your expectations if you're going in
originally the story was gonna be set in a canon arc but that felt boring so i decided to just make up a whole story for it
The story is meant to be a (loving) poke at old fanfiction, common tropes in the aforementioned subgenre of isekai, and just a general ""cliche"" Warriors series (in the human universe here, I figured it's call Battlers/Battle Cats or something stupid lmao). In this story, Frostblaze is born into [ONE OF THE FOUR FAKE CLANS I HAVENT FIGURED OUT NAMES YET IM SORRY]. She's the born to an unnamed mother who tragically died of illness when she was just a young baby and has no clue who her father is.
She's isolated from her peers due to her eyes which some believe are an omen of her unnaturality. This only worsens when she is apprenticed to their Clan leader and causes Honeypaw, the daughter of the Clan leader, to become enraged with jealousy. She is one of Frostpaw's worst tormentors in the early parts of the book and eventually, during a battle, tries to off Frostpaw herself....but is killed by Frostpaw's love interest, the dashing and handsome (if a bit stupid) Eaglepaw of [INSERT RIVAL CLAN HERE].
The two hit it off (Honeypaw is an after thought at this point) and work together to stop the eeevviilll leader of uuhh eviiiiilll clan. They win, live happily ever after, Frost is actually their Clan leader's daughter and Honeypaw is her half-sister and blah blah blah.
At least, they're supposed to. Honeypaw, out hunting, is hit by a truck at the same time a human is. Human wakes up as a cat about to be buried because everyone thinks Honeypaw is dead and freaks the fuck out.
A lot of the plot points are kind of just me working through my gripes of the subgenre lmao:
"the person who is reincarnated is more adept and cool and better than their character and everyone loves them" -> Honey is awkward, neurotic, and can come off as rude to those who don't know her. Even her coolest trait, her wrestling ability, is off-putting because oh my god why are you putting a cAT IN A SPIDER GUARD THEIR SPINES DON'T BEND LIKE THAT HONEY PUT HIM BACK TO NORMAL-
She reread the story before she died but, because she has no pen, no paper, and sadly of all, no thumbs, she's unable to write it down to keep remembering it when she gets sent to this world. It's awful and she desperately wishes she had thumbs back.
she stands on two legs, makes weird comments alluding to being a human, and just is a bit of a weirdo. Honeypaw was isolated for being mean, Honey is isolated for making everyone uncomfortable (unintentionally). However, her isolation allows her to slip under the radar and do some more investigating, as she's noticed that some of the details in the story aren't adding up...
The story is strange and the characters aren't as she remembers now that they're in the flesh. Of course, her main priority is to thwart Honeypaw's assassination attempts, the spirit being intent that the way to get her body back is if she dies again. It's only from a near death experience that they realize that that's not gonna work and have to work together to change the story so they don't die!
and, as many people have pieced together, they're not alone.
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some thoughts after reading I Shall Wear Midnight
Discworld #38, by Terry Pratchett (spoilers ahead for it and the two preceding books A Hat Full of Sky and Wintersmith)
it's such a joy to see how Tiffany is growing, how things she found scary or impossible earlier come as second nature to her now. it's also immensely fun to see the Witches (and omg Ankh-Morpork characters!!!!) from her eyes. she's a very smart person, but her narrative eyes don't 'hide' anything from the reader (unlike Granny Weatherwax, cough cough) and we get to discover things along with her.
if i trusted pTerry's storytelling a little bit less, i might say i don't entirely understand his choice to set up the Tiffany/Roland pairing in the preceding book, Wintersmith, and to follow it up with this book, where they're shown as obviously poorly-matched. but i have to say i wholeheartedly agree with this. i lowkey wish the hinted pairing didn't happen at all in A Hat Full of Sky and Wintersmith, because i think Tiffany and Preston are excellently matched, for the following reasons:
relationships should be between equals, who respect each other; and i was willing to write off Roland’s immature behaviour, especially after his character growth in Wintersmith, but in this one he’s gone right back to pre-A Hat Full of Sky silly levels. Tiffany and Preston are on an equal footing on so many levels—young working people, smart and observant, and kind by being smart and observant which is just. the best kind of love.
towards the end of the book, when Preston exclaims to Tiffany:
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i enviously thought ‘how come she gets to have someone that’s so unselfishly happy for her?’ because, of course, i successfully imprinted on Tiffany (although she’s much smarter, selflesser, and hardworkinger than i am) and how come she gets to have such people when i don’t. but then i realised: she does the same for him. she notices how smart she is and how unfortunate it is that he can’t do what he enjoys, and she helps him get the means to do it. and they both bond over being nerdy about beautiful words! the best kind of love!!!!
also, the other things that make pTerry the best writer ever: how there are no main characters (different books have recurring characters from different points of view, and we get to see how flawed and non-archetypally-flawless they are). how he turns tropes about women characters on their head (the Letitia & Tiffany dynamic, chef's kiss). how humanely and compassionately he writes about the worst kinds of people he can invent. how many opportunities for growth he gives them, and how he genuinely lets them grow. the joy of plot, indeed!!
i have six (6) unread Discworld books and one (1) unread Tiffany Aching/Witches book and i am nervous and happysad. i might just read the Aching book right now, although it's the "last" in the series. i devoutly hope pTerry doesn’t crash the Tiffany/Preston ship into an iceberg shaped like Tiffany, ahaha.
(PS: self-’plug’. i’m appreciating beautiful words myself, over here.)
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x0401x · 24 hours
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Hello....Do you mind if I ask your top 10 favorite characters (can be male or female) from all of the media that you loved (can be anime/manga, books, movies or tv series)? And why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before.....Thanks...
I've been asked my top 10 before, but never from all of the media I love and I've never been asked to elaborate on why I love them. Not to mention that the list changes as I watch/read new stuff, so it's good to update it. Then again, I don't watch live action that much, so I'm afraid it's gonna be all animanga/books, if you don't mind.
I must say, though, that it was impossible to decide on 10 this time around. So I resorted to listing my top 5. The list is in no particular order, by the way.
1. Kuchiki Rukia
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So this one was an instant fave and I don't even think I need to explain much. Badass, kindhearted, A+ sense of humor. Just checks all the boxes. Also love her unique character design.
2. Gilbert Bougainvillea
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I strictly mean the book version of him. Gil was one of the very few fictional characters to ever surprise me. I love how unapologetically emotional he is and how he's always making sure the people he holds dear get to live a happy life. The way he's such a "family and friends first" kinda guy and yet nobody seems to realize it simply because he looks like the aloof type is bitterly relatable for me. Also the way he acknowledges how unfair life is for him despite being brough up in an environment that, in theory, had everything to meet all his needs, and yet tries to make the best of it all. And my God, the amount of Respect Women Juice that this guy drinks. Goals as a human being, tbh. (Yes, the books are that different from the anime.)
3. Oikawa Tsurara
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I normally don't vibe all that much with characters like Tsurara, but she quite literally opened new horizons for me in fandom. Imagine the dumb, clingy servant girl stereotype turned upside down. You start out fearing that she'll fit into the Mold TM, and before you realize it, she's risen to become an upper officer in command of two clans and is endgame with the protagonist (with three more guys pinning after her). Except this isn't a Cinderella kind of journey; she was always treated by her love interest as an equal and was always portrayed as having immense potential. Her jealousy of her rivals seems comical but is actually valid, as her suspicions always hit home. She's smart and strong and not at all delusional, and the story makes sure to give her a steady growth. She never becomes overpowered, but the protagonist only gets to that level because of her.
4. Takigawa Masaki
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Again, book version. Motherfucker just be casually defying every god in existence because y'all can't just try to kill my disciple like that, what the actual fuck. The "Catch These Hands" priest, because he'll punch the shit outta whoever gets between him and the little bitch who tried to harm his students. And then he'll fuck into his shrine in the middle of the woods like nothing happened. His main occupation, however, is to be hot as hell. Truly an icon.
5. Sheryl Nome
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Same as with Tsurara, I normally don't vibe much with characters like Sheryl, but holy fuck, the amount of respect I have for this woman. Macross is a franchise that specializes in taking archetypes and tropes and subverting them completely, and Frontier is my favorite because the character handling in this thing is good fucking food.
Sheryl has such an attitude but she can back it up. And she does it in ways that are charismatic, rather than annoying or bitchy. She absolutely never puts herself down and is never portrayed as actually fragile and inoffensive on the inside. The narrative gets points too for never going "she's amazing but she won't ever be as good as the protagonist". And she's cute, sure, but she's also dangerous and is out there to get what she wants. Yet there's so much heart to her. So much passion and admiration for all things alive and for connecting with them through music. She usually only does what she wants but is so ridiculously selfish with the people she cherishes. Easily one of the most extremely complex and absurdly cool femme fatales in animanga.
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Hey! Was just in the midst of rereading "Lily" and I had a question about your rewriting process:
Was it hard having to replace all the "Harry Potter" elements? Are things REALLY different from "Lily" the fic, or is it just the basics? Is there still a school for magic?
The most important one, tho, is: Did you change Lily's name? I hope not lol
On another note, REALLY excited for the published book! Which actually brings another question, I looked at the word count, and I don't think you can make all of "Lily" one book, so is it gonna be a trilogy, cuz I remember once you said that there are three main arcs, or is it just gonna be a series?
Sorry about all these questions!
Feels weird answering this without having released anything to the wild yet but why not.
And no worries about the question, it's great to know people are still interested/interested at all. That fic is kind of... my ridiculous pet project gone wild that consumed my account for too many years.
Was it Hard Replacing Things?
Yes.
This was the main trouble/what took so damn long. The main story and characters (Lily and her journey and all of that) aren't really reliant on the HP framework, which why it was possible to convert at all, but it's dependent on there being known archetypes and tropes. I like to think I pull it off with a very stereotypical high fantasy setting but a lot had to change, while serving the interests of the story and characters, and also making internal sense.
That meant a lot of sitting down and thinking about the new world, how it works, and the new cast of secondary characters.
Are Things Really Different?
Yes and no.
The overarching point of the story is the same and the main characters go through the same major emotional arcs. The actual plotlines though are vastly different, the world is different, and the secondary characters are different (well, some are reminiscent of the fic but get way more speaking lines/some changes to personalities and others are new).
Basically, I had to write new content for most of it (but the beginning was sadly similar enough that we got the whole pulling down debacle that I still have to wait and see where that lands).
Some things are still the same in that there's still a prophecy, still a case of Lily having been dumped somewhere else for convenient reasons of convenience, and so on.
Is There a Magic School
Sort of.
It's Sir Not Appearing in Book One but does get quite a few name drops.
Is Lily's Name Changed?
She's still Lily and Ellie to start with but she has another name as well and the surname and middle name are different. I was too attached to Lily as a name to drop it by this point.
How Many Fucking Books Is It?
You're right in that it's a long story.
Fuck, it's a long story.
What I've got now for this to be published book is the first arc, roughly the equivalent of chapters 1-25 in the fic version for those following along (same major arc going on). In Lily I'd say while there's three major arcs it'd probably break down best into 4-5 books (though don't quote me, I'm bad at doing this stuff until I sit down to actually write it).
Once I finally get done with this editing business of book 1, book 2 is pretty well scoped out, I have a solid idea what book 3 would be, and then... could be one to two more as I have to sit down and really think about those (that's a future me problem).
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field-s-of-flowers · 10 months
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Per the notes of your last post, I’d love to hear more of your Thoughts™️ about why Pride & Prejudice works because the two main characters are neurodivergent!! I’ve thought a lot about Darcy being neurodivergent, but not so much Lizzie…
Oh my dear friend you have no idea what you’ve gotten into
So most of the characters in Pride and Prejudice are pretty much stock caricatures, right? Mrs. Bennet is the archetype of the meddling, embarrassing mother, Mr. Wickham embodies the idea of a wicked, seductive rogue, Caroline Bingley is the trope of the bitchy romantic rival. Even Jane (while arguably quite complex) is a classic kind-and-forgiving ingenue, or at least extremely similar to one.
The only exceptions to this rule are Elizabeth and Darcy.
Let’s start out with Elizabeth. You can clearly see she’s a complicated character right out the gate. She’s witty and intelligent but not very wise about people, she’s extroverted and kind to her sisters but can also be rude to people who don’t necessarily deserve it, she doesn’t take many things seriously other than her own opinions. She idolizes her father and ignores his many, many flaws because they’re also HER flaws- they share a bemused high-and-mightiness about their intelligence.
Elizabeth is the protagonist, so readers might expect her to be more complex than side characters. But there’s also something so isolating about being the only fully-fleshed person in a house or a ballroom full of stereotypes and caricatures. So sometimes Elizabeth lets her true colors show, but other times, she plays the game to be able to do the same things her sisters do easily (although she can’t help letting her personality shine through, like at Rosings).
In contrast, there’s Darcy, who doesn’t appear particularly complex at the beginning of the novel. At the ball, he’s proud and unsociable, and he appears not to think much of Elizabeth: “she is tolerable, but not handsome enough to tempt me.” He’s a stereotype here, like all the other characters- specifically, the stereotype of the proud and haughty rich man with little regard for others.
But over the course of the book, Darcy changes dramatically, and so does Elizabeth’s (and the reader’s) perception of him. He’s still proud and he’s still rich, but those aren’t his only qualities. He’s a generous master and a loving brother, he’s an introvert who freezes in public but flourishes around those he cares about, he’s a devoted friend who doesn’t ask repayment for the most extravagant favors.
And, crucially, they share these complexities with each other. Darcy is at his haughtiest and his humblest when he’s with Elizabeth, and Elizabeth laughs and rages at Darcy in turn. They share with each other their flaws at the end, and they realize they’ve found kindred spirits in each other. It’s worth noting that, apart from in her own thoughts, the only person who refers to Elizabeth by her full name is Darcy. Their minds work in very different ways, but they’re both even more different from those around them.
Elizabeth and Darcy are drawn to each other in a way that only two “different” people can be. In a world where their defining qualities are ignored and ridiculed, they each celebrate and love what makes the other who they are. That’s neurodivergent love in its most beautiful form.
I was also gonna talk about Wickham and Georgiana, but this is long already so I might make that a separate post! @dearausten and @koheletgirl I think you might also like this :)
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imperiuswrecked · 9 months
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Can you please talk about why you think Namor has BPD? (At least I think you said that you believed Namor had BPD, it may have been another condition.)
I've spoken about Namor + Mental Health Issues many times in the past, but I can put it all in this post to make it an easier read rather than going through my older posts. I do state that I believe Namor has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) but I will also go over other stuff that have come up in the comics.
General Disclaimer: I'm not a mental health professional, and comics are not good at accurate representation of mental health disorders, and this meta is just my thoughts on the matter of Namor's personality, and mental health issues (MHI). Also content warnings for mentions of mental health issues, suicide, genocide, and rape.
I think the Mental Health Issue that gets discussed the most is Bryne's 90s Namor run where he claims that Namor has Bipolar Disorder. Forgive my long winded response but let me explain the situation behind it and why I personally believe this is a terrible way to use MHI in comics, but of course if people feel represented by a superhero/anti-hero who has the same issues as them then that's good for them and I'm personally not out here to argue with anyone about MHI representation in comics.
Bipolar Disorder
It's the 90s, Namor has been bouncing around books all throughout the 80s after having his 60-70s series canceled, the character has been married twice and widowed twice (Dorma - 1st Wife, Marrina - 2nd wife) he's had one 4 issue mini series and a limited 12 issue series, Saga of the Sub-Mariner, before having his own solo title again; Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) and a new look was needed for the Prince of the Seas, so Terry Kavanagh & John Bryne decide to play up the 90s Business Man angle, and Namor is turned into a Corporate Eco Warrior, this time deciding to fight those who harm the oceans and its creatures in the board room rather than the seas. Saga of the Sub-Mariner (1988) sets up Namor for the 90s, with a recap of all the character's history but anyone reading Namor knows that Namor isn't a superhero like Captain America or Superman, who lean towards a lawful good character, instead he's had time spent as a villain and hero, as Marvel puts it "Namor was the first hero-villain" and is the Archetype Anti-Hero and this is very important and I stress this very hard that because of Namor's Anti-Hero characterization it would be impossible to make him a lawful good hero like Captain America without losing important parts of the character. Namor isn't an american or surface world hero, so how does he now work in the surface world? How does a writer take a morally gray character like Namor and make him the hero of his own title?
You would think perhaps they might lean into WHY Namor is angry all the time, WHY Namor hates Americans and other surface dwellers, WHY would he constantly be fighting against them. You would think a good writer would love to play around with plots of morality, human greed and the willful destruction of the earth's oceans with a character whose upbringing/morals don't match the general typical hero type, and the tropes of a vengeful entity seeking justice.
But that would be asking too much of writers.
Instead Bryne blames all of Namor's past misdeeds on "he's crazy" and thus begins my most hated, over used, writing trope for Namor which I've dubbed "The Mad (as in crazy) Sea King Trope" you see this pop up many times in Namor's comics. So now whenever Namor is evil or doesn't fall in line with the surface heroes thinking/wanting to do things, its not because Namor has some actual grievance with the surface world, no he's just got a chemical imbalance in his brain and he needs to take a dip in the ocean or a walk on land.
Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #1
"And my studies have led me to the conclusion that your occasional periods of almost homicidal rage are directly the results of your mingled bloodlines. --- Too long underwater and you begin to suffer from oxygen starvation. Too long on the surface and the reverse occurs. In both cases the result is a kind of Intoxication. You become irrational... insane!"
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And with this comic Bryne has irrevocably hurt Namor's character forever. The damage this comic has done will never be undone nor will Namor's character ever have a chance to really dive into Why he's so Angry at the world without Marvel coming back around to this comic. Namor was the original "Angry Young Man" of comics, because Everett said he put some of himself, his own youth, his anger, into Namor's character. If I come across that statement/interview again I will definitely post about it, I just feel that this post is already too long and don't want to sidetrack getting deeper into Namor's design/character.
Namor's extreme hostility and anger is not a character flaw, its by design that he harbors such great resentment towards the world his father came from.
"The Original "Angry Young Man" - The Sub-Mariner" art by Bill Everett
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Namor isn't angry because he's crazy, he's angry because severe injustice has been done to his people and home and he wants to avenge that. Everything about Namor is about him trying to navigate two worlds and the anger he feels at the harm one side has done to the other. Namor means "Avenging Son" for a reason.
However with this Bipolar explanation Bryne has neatly swept up all of Namor's complicated emotions and issues with his human half and the human world into a tidy pile and then tossed it out.
I would rather Namor be held accountable for his actions than for them to be forgiven (and why should he CARE about human forgiveness anyways???). I would rather Namor hold a mirror up to the human world and call out their sins which is why he does what he did in the past rather than this half assed "oh, its not really his fault, so its all ok now" writing. This is why I think Bryne's Bipolar Namor hurts the character because it takes away any agency or consequences for the main theme of the character and his world. And it's boring. It's so utterly boring that I want to cry. Perhaps because I love complicated plots, any explanation that absolves a character without putting the work in makes me dislike that writing. Bryne was trying to redeem Namor and in my strongest and unhumble opinion, Namor does not need redemption. Nor should Namor care about human laws or seek to be absolved by subjecting himself to their rulings.
He's not the hero for surface dwellers, he's the hero for atlanteans, and if people actually took the time to see things from Namor's point of view instead of trying to shove the character into the traditional hero mold then they could understand why Namor attacked the surface world.
Trial of the Sub-Mariner - Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #13
"But the fact remains, Namor has never been brought fully to account for many of early crimes against humanity-- including declarations of war and the actual invasion of New York!" "Reed! You sound as though you think Namor should be found guilty of the charges! Yet we know now many of his rages against the world were caused by a blood imbalance due to his mixed racial heritage."
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Bryne resolves Namor's past actions by writing that he is guilty of his crimes but by way of insanity in a throwaway speech bubble that if people were less of an intense reader might miss and forget instantly but I'm too much of an obsessive reader, lol. So Namor has to serve a 100 years of probation (again this isn't brought up ever again in any future issues, he literally never does his probation) monitored by Captain America who is his parole officer, Steve plays the part of Jiminy Cricket to keep him on the path of good and Namor is free to be the Good Guy who doesn't hate America/Surface Dwellers. This also leads into another grievance I have with Marvel writers who use Steve as the Moral Right to Namor's Immoral Wrong, but again that's a post for another day.
Imo Byrne is a terrible writer. I won't say I hate the 90s run because there are parts of it I greatly enjoy, but I do criticize how badly this effects Namor's character to this day. It makes no sense logically nor is this how Bipolar disorder works.
Next is Zdarsky's writing.
Where do I begin. I first want to point out that I don't know how Zdarsky would have written Namor if he hadn't been told "No" to a Namor solo series which prompted him to change his story to include Steve and the Invaders but going by the plot of Invaders (2019) I am very glad that this wasn't a solo Namor series. If you haven't read that series the main summary is Namor gets his mind messed with a lot, by Professor Xavier, by the Serpent Crown, by a mental entity taking the distorted form of his old friend, Machan. Which prompts Namor to decide to make all surface dwellers into water dwellers and the Invaders try to stop him. So basically Zdarsky tries to stay true to the previous writing of Bryne's Bipolar disorder but also throws in way too much interference. In the comics it's almost a joke just how many times Namor is possessed or driven mad or insane or has amnesia and it happens once again this series. While it was interesting to see someone attempt to fill in the blank Amnesiac years (the time period between Namor disappearing from Atlantis after the War until the time Johnny Storm finds Namor keeps getting longer as the years go by, what used to be maybe 6 years of an Amnesiac period has now become decades), I just feel that adding more brain trauma and possession for a plot that is ultimately forgotten by now didn't help Namor's character or actually explore his psyche more.
That's not to say I hated it completely, I'm just a very critical reader, and there are very good moments that do explore Namor's psyche like when Professor X is in Namor's mind, and Namor says "I cannot be fixed. There is murder in my heart Charles." Invaders (2019) #4
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Or Namor showing Steve how he feels as a super human among humans in issue 1. "Do you have any idea what this is like for me? Look how weak you all are! I could crush this man's head like you would crack open an egg! I run around on your battlefields trying to -- to protect bags of water from being punctured by other bags of water!"
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In the end this series employs the same tropes from older comics: - The Mad Sea King (Namor is insane) - Steve is the Moral Right to Namor's Immoral Wrong - Nothing is in character for Namor and Namor's ooc-ness is directly tied to mental interference but Namor is blamed for it as though this is all in character. < this trope also applies to the Phoenix King Namor of the Phoenix Five.
However this series does try somewhat to showcase Namor's PTSD, but more on that later in this post.
So to wrap this up, Namor's bipolar disorder was written as a way to excuse Namor for his shady past and bouts of madness and/or to have a chance to write Namor as Evil or an Antagonist without having to deal with the issues that make up Namor's character or have to blame the surface world for their compliancy in those issues. So you can see why I highly dislike and often ignore the "Namor is bipolar" writing.
Suicidal Thoughts
After the death of Marrina, his second wife, Namor contemplates throwing himself into a swirling whirlpool of perhaps certain death in Marvel Comics Presents (1988) #57
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PTSD
While Zdarsky tried to include PTSD as a plot point in Invaders (2019) in my opinion he didn't go far enough into that aspect of Namor's MHI, and instead pivots back to Serpent Crown/Machan possession/Xavier's mind manipulation. Invaders (2019) was so close but ultimately I have to give the real recognition of Namor's PTSD coding/writing to these other comics, especially Marvels Snapshot.
Namor's first real interaction with the surface world comes at the beginning of WWll, at this point Namor is 18 years old, so he's very young for a human and even younger for an Atlantean. As a teenager going off to fight a war in another land he came back with PTSD however in older comics it's more coded than stated.
Marvel Team Up (1997) #8 - Namor finds he cannot breath underwater and manages to make it to safety on a bridge in New York where a frightened human runs away from Namor and into a cop who begins to beat the man. Namor witnessing this has a mental break and believes himself to be back in WWll.
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Doctor Strange stops Namor and bring him back for treatment relating to why Namor came to him in the first place and why he can't swim in water but I found this interaction to be very interesting, because this could easily be seen as Namor having a ptsd moment and dealing with the aftermath and not just about Namor's inability to swim underwater and mental burdens.
"It happened again. The Son of Atlantis does not embarrass easily, Doctor. But I foolishly thought you had cured me." "It's not your fault, Namor. I've completed my diagnosis and I've concluded that you are a very sick individual."
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Another moment that I also believe is coded PTSD is in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) Annual 1 - Never Again. This comic deals heavily with Namor's past in WWll, the holocaust, genocide and has many flashbacks.
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However it wasn't until Marvels Snapshot: Sub-Mariner (2020) that we finally and truly get our first story that actually dives into the fact that Namor has PTSD and is very much affected by it, they do not call it PTSD instead the terms were "Shell Shock" or "Combat Fatigue" are used because this is set during an era where PTSD was not named/recognized. This story is told from the POV of a character who's loved ones have PTSD. Betty Dean witnesses her brother Lloyd's hands shake, his short temper and his drinking as a way to deal with his ptsd. She talks with her other brother about Llyod.
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I really love this story because I feel it's so accurate as to how someone would react towards the situation; Betty doesn't understand why Llyod isn't happy the war is over, and Frank tells her "The war's not over for everyone, Betts." I really cannot recommend this comic enough for how it deals with Namor and Betty dealing with the aftermath of the war and how a partner/loved ones struggle with MHI hurts those around them because they are unable to help them. If I could I would post this whole comic here but again, post long, time to move on.
You see Namor react to triggers such as bullet shot sounds. His hands trembling like her brother's.
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It's well known that Namor loathes Nazis, and this was another trigger for him to remember his time in the war.
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In the end Betty consoles Namor but cannot get him to accept that he isn't well, and he needs help. So yes, it's canon Namor has PTSD and the Rage he had before the war is only exacerbated further because of his war trauma.
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Coping Mechanisms/Addiction
As seen in Snapshot, Namor refuses to seek any therapy which was a headcanon I had a long time ago and was pretty pleased to see how spot on another writer understood Namor's inability to ask for help.
"And I don't ask for help. I'm a King dammit." - Dark Reign: The List - X-Men
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So as Llyod turned to drinking/alcohol to cope with his ptsd, throughout the comics Namor is seen drinking after he loses a battle/is unable to deal with loss - Fear Itself: The Deep (and avengers but I hate Aaron's avengers so I'm not posting the Namor going in a drinking binge page here but it's there) and Namor also drinks with T'Challa in Avengers when he believes all hope is lost. (Also not to sidetrack again, but someday I really really want to talk about how Namor seems to really only open up to people like Stephen, and has less trouble asking Stephen for help than others. The Defenders team dynamic is one of my favorite things.)
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But another coping mechanism is that Namor has used drugs in the past - Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier (2014) #1 and I've run out of the allowed images on a single post so I linked my older post where I mention this.
Amnesia/Mental Possession
When Marvel began it's Silver Age, the world exploded into creation with the arrival of the Fantastic Four in 1961. At this point in the real world Namor had been out of print since 1955. Now Kirby & Lee could have just kept going without bringing in any of the older characters from the Golden Age but Stan Lee loved Namor's character very much and wanted to bring him back and what started out as a plot point in Fantastic Four (1961) #4 to explain where Namor had been for a in universe few years turns into a and overused cliché in Namor comics. I have no issues with Fantastic Four (1961) #4 using this plot, in fact its a very good and simple plot, the Pauper that was actually a lost Prince of a fantastical realm.
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Namor is the first character to bridge the divide between the old golden age heroes and the new silver age heroes. The way amnesia is used as a tool to help explain and bring in the character is very contained however many times after this writers seem to love to use Amnesiac Namor as a plot device and it's happened many times in his comics. In fact Namor seems to get amnesia from literally anything, wheter it's Master Khan stripping Namor of his memories in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #25 or Namor becoming an train bound amnesiac hobo over the grief of losing his father in The Sub-Mariner (1968) #47
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Meanwhile the other often used trope of Mental Possession comes up many times too, from the Puppet Master controlling Namor in Fantastic Four (1961) #14 and again in Tales to Astonish #78 to explosions leaving Namor an amnesiac and under the control of the hooded man of the secret empire in Tales to Astonish #83, etc. This is of course an incomplete list of times Namor has either lost his memories or is under another's mental control. Note: The Serpent Crown is also another recurring plot where Namor or others are controlled by the crown.
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Of course I can't leave out the Phoenix King. Phoenix Five Namor is the one most people know but again most do not acknowledge that he was possessed and under the control of a cosmic entity. Even though there are two comics that talk about how much Namor hated his agency and control being taken away from him by the Phoenix.
AvX: Consequences #4 & Jean Grey (2017) #3
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I bring up the instances of Namor's amnesia/mental possession and how it relates to his MHI issues because these sort of plots are present in many comics but most writers really don't take the time to go into how badly these constant bouts of loss of self affect Namor's character, which is understandable in comic book writing world because every writer wants to move onto the next plot and next action scene. However these does bring me to the next topic.
(Also if you want a good amnesia Namor comic then read Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons, it's told from a side characters pov but it's one of my favorite comics)
Mental Resilience
Now if a writer wants a thing to happen in a comic then it will happen and explanations or consistency be damned. However I do find it very amusing how Namor is constantly shown to have an extremely strong personality and remarked to have very strong mental fortitude that not even Emma Frost can break, is shown to be strong enough to stand against The Purple Man's powers and Namor has had literally everything from tanks to bombs thrown at him and brushed it off, yet sometimes he can't resist whatever flavor of the week villain's mental powers or stop waking up with amnesia every 5 seconds.
So Namor is the most hard headed recurring amnesiac to ever live in comics. I sincerely worry he's got massive amounts of brain damage with how many times this has happened to him.
Mental Instability
I'm sure there are times when Namor just cracks under the massive amounts of constant trauma and pressure but comics don't really show that however there is a moment right after Llyra rapes Namor, he finds out, and then she lies to him, telling him she is pregnant with his child (at this point in the comics Namor was canonically sterile), and Namor just cracks, with Johnny and Ben saying Namor has "lost it". Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #50
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Borderline Personality Disorder
Now everything I've spoken of up until this point is supported by comic examples. However my theory of Namor having Borderline Personality Disorder came about from me rejecting the Bipolar Disorder explanation and then trying to figure out what type of MHI Namor would really have if writers cared at all to understand the character. Most of this comes from me seeing the commonly shared traits between Namor's character and the signs of BPD. I wrote this out before but here's the list again:
An intense fear of abandonment, even going to extreme measures to avoid real or imagined separation or rejection
A pattern of unstable intense relationships, such as idealizing someone one moment and then suddenly believing the person doesn’t care enough or is cruel (see: namor hounding susan storm for years, idolizing her, but it wasn’t actually a relationship)
Rapid changes in self-identity and self-image that include shifting goals and values, and seeing yourself as bad or as if you don’t exist at all
Periods of stress-related paranoia and loss of contact with reality, lasting from a few minutes to a few hours
Impulsive and risky behavior
Wide mood swings lasting from a few hours to a few days, which can include intense happiness, irritability, shame or anxiety
Ongoing feelings of emptiness
Inappropriate, intense anger, such as frequently losing your temper, being sarcastic or bitter, or having physical fights
Most of these traits are things you see throughout the comics, but nothing that's ever stated as BPD. You see Namor struggle with his self-identity, be paranoid that Lady Dorma has abandoned/betrayed him, his wanderings throughout the oceans during his periods of grief or loneliness etc. it's really just a lot of little things that I feel contribute to this headcanon.
The Sub-Mariner (1968) #4
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To me Namor having Borderline Personality Disorder clearly explains Namor's rapid shifts of mood better than "oh he's bipolar and its because he's half human/atlantean and needs oxygen or he goes insane", and IF Marvel was to give Namor some kind of mental diagnosis then imo he would not be Bipolar.
Namor has so much external pressure, from the way the Atlanteans have ostracized him, and the politics of the surface world vs the atlanteans, the way he's constantly pushed to war with the humans while at other times trying to prevent war between his two people. The pressures of being a king, and the internal pressures of his inner self, his conflicts of being half human/atlantean, personal life, and losses. It's enough to make anyone crack. Let alone a character who has endured this for decades.
Atlantis Attacks (2020) #1
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In conclusion, get this sea king some therapy and let him nap. He really needs it.
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mlarayoukai · 4 months
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I know it's because fandom is mostly ran young people or generally inexperienced writers but God I'm sick of the same 5 fandom archetypes of decently written characters because people don't know how to write. I know we all have to start somewhere, but we need to stop with "the mom if the group" or "the Casanova who always fails" or "the villain but don't worry they'll actually not really bad!". You can say it doesn't matter but you look at book ads that just boil down tropes as bullet points for marketing and tell me it's not overall affecting things moving forward. If I see any YA novel advertised with TV tropes articles I'm going to scream
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