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veliseraptor · 1 year

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Inspired by 'it's not love, it's obsession': what are your thoughts on the parallels between Luo Binghe and Xue Yang?

oooh this is a fascinating one.

One of my favorite things about looking at MXTX's books as a corpus of work taken together is the ways in which you can see her evolving as a writer. I don't necessarily mean stylistically (I don't feel like I can speak to that, since I can't read the original), or even necessarily narratively (though I do think TGCF is the strongest narratively, for all it's probably longer than it needs to be). What I really mean is how you can see her coming back to the same themes over and over and exploring them with variations and shades of difference. There are very clearly things that are MXTX Concerns, as it were, that she revisits and echoes and plays with in all of her works; questions about justice and the cycle of violence are one big one that I've thought a lot about personally.

And when you're looking at the three books together, there are places where you can draw throughlines - for instance, from Yi City > Black Water Arc, or from (arguably) Xiao Xingchen > Xie Lian. In light of the trivia that Yi City comes at least in part from an older, abandoned story MXTX worked on when she was younger (per an interview with her, I believe), I feel like you can draw the line from Xue Yang > Luo Binghe as far as some of the tropes being played with. Xue Yang is (in some ways) an echo of Luo Binghe is an echo of an older story that had a character who may or may not have been named Xue Yang.

In obvious ways Xue Yang takes a different position in the story he ends up in than Luo Binghe does in his (he ends up an antagonist), but while one could look at the Song Lan/Xue Yang/Xiao Xingchen trio and posit Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan as the intended pair of whatever original story they came from, that doesn't, in my eyes, fit with the other relationships MXTX chooses to write. Xue Yang lives at a nexus of a lot of the things MXTX pokes at with Luo Binghe and, yes, Wei Wuxian, but also (to a lesser degree) Hua Cheng - the legacy of childhood violence, the importance and weight of small kindnesses in changing a person, the probing at the idea of people as irredeemable or incapable of change (and finding it lacking).

He comes from a disadvantaged, marginalized background (as do the other two protagonists) and, despite perpetrating atrocious acts of violence (Wei Wuxian actually, Luo Binghe less so in SVSSS canon but explicitly so in PIDW, which is the way Shen Qingqiu relates to him initially), kind treatment from a single person having a deep impact on their behavior. There's also the quality of deep, obsessive devotion, notably beyond death, that Xue Yang shares with Luo Binghe, Lan Wangji, and Hua Cheng (portrayed in the latter two cases as clearly and explicitly romantic and to be valued). Xue Yang doesn't occupy a protagonist role in MDZS (obviously), but he has some of those thematic qualities that tend to pop up in MXTX protagonists and/or love interests.

(Hua Cheng might stand out here, and he is different, certainly, but I would point to the very, very early identification of him as inherently ill-fortuned and bad to be around. Xue Yang has TGCF echoes, I'd say, to a lesser extent in Hua Cheng than in Jun Wu, but I don't think the echoes are absent from Hua Cheng, either.).

This positions Xue Yang, potentially, as (if we're using a crude metaphor) a little bit the Luo Binghe to Xiao Xingchen's Shen Qingqiu, with Song Lan potentially occupying more of a Yue Qingyuan place (but of course that's just speculation and we'll probably never know).

This is a lot of tl;dr but I guess the main thing I'm thinking about here is that while it's I think shallow to describe Xue Yang as a proto-Luo Binghe (or rather, ur-Xue Yang from that older story as), I think it's fair to see that relationship between the two characters as part and parcel of MXTX's revisiting, revising, and reconsidering the same themes over and over again in her work - in the same way, I think, that within the same story Wei Wuxian's parallels with both Xue Yang illustrate that same impulse. (And not, to be clear, as a simple "this one good, this one bad" morality tale; what MXTX is doing with her parallels is, I daresay, more interesting than that.)

anyway, there you have it. I feel like this went maybe a little left of what you were asking (maybe you wanted me to talk about the actual parallels in terms of character?) but this is a sub-category of that subject I personally find very fun to think about.

#conversating #glacia main #good lord there are so many parentheses in this post #lise does meta #dysfunctional gods and ghost kinks #the sad queer cultivators show #i don't have a custom svsss tag whoops #svsss #xue yang #luo binghe

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wondereads · 3 months

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Weekly Reading Update (01/15/23)

Reviews and thoughts under the cut

Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones (10/10)

It's been a year since I reread Howl's Moving Castle and that's a bit too long in my opinion. This time it was with my book club, and it was so fun to see everyone's reactions to the story. I feel like every time I read this book I notice something new about Sophie's character or the magic or the romance. I just love this novel so much, the characters and plot are all just amazing and it has such a unique, comforting feel. Diana Wynne Jones is a master of the fantasy genre, and I have yet to read a book by her I didn't like.

Emily Wilde's Map of the Otherlands by Heather Fawcett (9/10)

This was a lovely continuation to the adventures of Emily Wilde. She's still a stellar protagonist with a really strong voice and lots of tangible flaws while still being incredibly likable. As usual, her dynamic with Wendell, both in a platonic and romantic way, is top tier; they really have me giggling and kicking my feet during this books. There are two new major side characters, who introduce a lot of good character conflict, and the return of some old favorites from Encyclopaedia of Faeries. The beginning is a little wonky in terms of pacing, but there are some great subplots in this one and some surprising throughlines from the previous book.

The Evil Queen by Gena Showalter (8/10)

Another reread, I think I'm just in the mood for fantasy romances. I will be completely honest and say that this book is a guilty pleasure of mine. I cannot look anyone in the eye and say this is well-written, but it certainly is enjoyable. Gena Showalter writes some really good chemistry, even if Everly and Roth are the fantasy equivalent of that one high school couple that can't stop getting mad at each other and breaking up before getting back together again. There's a lot of wish fulfillment in this story, and it's just a fun time for me.

Wolf-Speaker by Tamora Pierce (CR, 68%)

While I love this series, Wolf-Speaker was always my least favorite in the series. However, my opinion of it is improving because a) the message of unity and Daine's character growth are really good and b) I'm listening to an audiobook and it has a full cast and just has great voice acting. Unfortunately, I'm at a point in the book where Daine and Numair have been separated for a while, and I won't lie, I love his character and I'm missing him.

Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation Vol. 4 by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu (CR, 12%)

I'm so excited to finish up the MXTX novels! I've been putting them off because I wanted to read my physical copies thanks to the beautiful illustrations, and I've been abroad without them. I am kind of nervous about this one because I'm fairly certain this one includes the end of Wei Wuxian 1.0, which is going to be so painful to read. Still, I'm really excited to finish this one and Heaven Official's Blessing!

#books #reading update #howl’s moving castle #diana wynne jones #hmc #dwj #emily wilde's map of the otherlands #emily wilde #heather fawcett #the evil queen #gena showalter #wolf speaker #tamora pierce #the immortals quartet #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mdzs #mxtx

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coquelicoq · 2 years

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@heavymetalchemist's tags on this post about chengqing reminded me of my tags on this post about the yunmeng bros and listen. it's not that jiang cheng wants to be in debt to people or have them in debt to him, it's that he's afraid of being left and he's reminding them that he doesn't want to leave them. that if they'll let him, he wants to help them. and on the flip side, if they won't let him, then he'll respect that! ultimately that's what happened with the comb AND the fake duel AND guanyin temple! he will tell you in whatever way he knows how that he wants to be connected to you, and he'll use the language of debt if that's what's available to him, but that's not what's actually motivating him. if it were debt he cared about, he'd be just as interested in helping wen ning as he is wen qing, but he's not going around giving wen ning any get-out-of-jail-free hair accessories, is he?

ultimately he has people he cares about and people he doesn't, but if he cares about you, he won't give up on you without trying. he'll say "our debt ties us together" and mean "i want to be tied to you." he'll say "you promised" and mean "don't leave me." that's why, when you tell him that you're even now, that you owe each other nothing, what he hears is "so i don't need you." he hears "there's nothing here for me anymore." he hears "you're not worth it."

#jiang cheng #chengqing #they're brothers. they are BROTHERS #the untamed #links #my posts #okay i'm supposed to be working but in the immortal words of blink-182: work sucks.#so here are some roses by the stairs for my fellow jiang 'abandonment issues' cheng enthusiasts <3 #obviously i'm oversimplifying and obviously his connection to wen qing differs greatly in degree and many other ways from his connection #to wei wuxian but. i'm just saying. there are some throughlines #there are some things his therapist might gently point out to him as patterns in his relationships #as a sect leader who is particularly insecure about his bonds to other people even though his symbiotic relationship with his sect is his #raison d'être #yeah he's gonna use the language of debt and responsibility and promises to talk about this shit #how sad it would be not to owe anybody anything or be owed anything from anybody. how alone that would make him!#his sister ends up leaving him because the ties forged through marriage supersede her ties to him #why would anybody stay with him except what he can offer them? why would anybody stay outside of duty?#the least dutiful thing he ever did was for wei wuxian and he's never gonna tell wei wuxian about it #he's gonna keep saying i owe you even though he knows even better than wei wuxian that at least where the core is concerned #they truly ARE even #because what else would keep wei wuxian around? he's saying let me owe you. don't sever this last tie keeping me connected to you

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butterflydm · 4 years

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The Untamed Rewatch (ep 8)

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I have added a rewatch-specific tag to these posts: cql rewatch. I’ll only put rewatch posts in that tag!

At the beginning of this episode, we sort of rewind a bit before we continue the scene from the ending of ep7. We find out that before he visited the bunnies, WWX went to say goodbye to Wen Ning only to find out that he'd already left. I'm sure this increased his suspicions of Wen Qing, due to the timing — he and Lan Zhan find out what the mountain was hiding and she immediately leaves? Suspicious, indeed.

For most of this scene, WWX is gentle with the bunnies (until his siblings show and then he just chucks a rabbit at Jiang Cheng which 100% made me flinch). He also essentially uses their silence as a sounding board for his own thinking process, where he's thinking aloud and supplies their answers for them. His reaction here is, I think, both about him thinking of himself and Lan Zhan as a team — they're supposed to do this together! — but also, independently, about his own desire to keep his promise to Lan Yi. The lantern scene in the last episode shows both sides of that — he makes the promise with the lantern but is also making a point of wanting Lan Zhan to be part of that promise and not have to do things alone.

After the sibs show up, we also get the first iteration of Jiang Yanli's character throughline, which is her desire to keep (her) family together, when she talks about how she wouldn't want them to take a bunny home because it would miss its family. Jiang Yanli's deep devotion to her family, especially her brothers, is a theme we will return to often in the future — and leads, ultimately, to her sacrificing her life to save her brother's. But here it is just a sweet character note.

LWJ saying goodbye to the bunnies is short but it's a lovely little scene.

The scene where Wen Chao comes to try to threaten Lan Xichen is mostly about setting out the stakes — that Lan Wangji is vulnerable now that he's left the Cloud Recesses and that the Cloud Recesses themselves are not invulnerable. Wen Chao is a bully, so he's big on threats when he feels like he's in a position of power. He speaks with the weight of his father's power behind him right now, so it's easy for him to make threats. He also very much wants to prove himself to his father, since he knows there are others in his father's court who are very ruthless.

WWX has taken off after LWJ and he signs his little note that he left behind for his family with a smiley face. I love him. Jiang Yanli knows immediately that WWX must have something more serious in mind than just a night-hunt. Jiang Cheng, though, took the note at face value, which is an indicator for their future behavior when it comes to WWX's post-burial mounds behavior. And JFM, of course, knows about the Yin Metal stuff, so I'm guessing he made his own assumptions about what WWX is doing.

And Wei Wuxian is out of the white guest disciple robes and into his own color scheme. Though, here he doesn't wear black but instead wears a deep blue, very similar to the color that Jiang Fengmian wears, though he accents with red instead of light blue.

It does connect WWX visually with JFM in a way that his two bio-kids are not, though Jiang Yanli's light blue accents do match her father's. WWX was cute in the guest disciple robes, but the dark colors do really work for him. From what I can see of the layering, it's a red inner robe, then the dark blue with black accents (where LWJ has his cloud embroidery on his own outfit). It's interesting because when I was just thinking of WWX's 'signature colors', it was black and red that came to mind, but this is definitely a very deep blue that echoes JFM's clothes.

WWX is here to lecture LWJ on trying to do the Yin Metal quest on his own. He accuses LWJ of wanting all the credit of being a hero, which LWJ takes as seriously as it deserves (not at all). And now that LWJ is off on his own, he's also wearing blue, though a much lighter shade, with white accents. This leads into the bonding/binding talismen scene, which I like on a few different levels. To start with, it feels like a physical/magical expression of WWX's desires in general — he wants LWJ to treat him like an equal in this journey. He wants to be closer to him, expressed here in physical distance, but WWX makes it clear he means emotionally as well. And LWJ resists because, for him, the closeness is a red flag of a whole bunch of emotional potential that he, at this point, does not want to let himself feel but WWX's entire personality and presence basically mean he's gonna be forced to.

So… in the town, they meet up with Nie Huaisang and I think… was WWX not actually kicked out of classes early? Maybe the lantern ceremony was actually the end of the studies for the guest disciples? Because Nie Huaisang has also left Gusu. And the conversation implies studies are over for all guest disciples. Now I'm trying to think of why I assumed he had been kicked out early — is that a book thing that enough posts implied must have also happened in CQL, maybe? Nie Huaisang and Wei Wuxian laugh at each other for not going straight back home after the end of studies, then NHS notices that LWJ is there and he's concerned.

At Lotus Pier, Jiang Cheng is sneaking out to go find WWX when his sister catches up with him. And because I'm noticing these things now, Jiang Cheng has dark blue inner robes with lighter blue over them and darker accents, while Jiang Yanli has white inner robes with lavender on top and darker purple accents.

Anyway, he thinks she's there to scold him or tell him to stay but she's just here to warn Jiang Cheng to be careful on his journey, much like we had the inner thoughts of Lan Xichen hoping that his little brother would be careful. Jiang Cheng isn't as noisy about it as WWX, but he also obviously craves his older sister's approval as well.

Hmm, I hadn't given enough thought to Jiang Yanli-Lan Xichen potential parallels before now, but they do both fit into the niche of protective and concerned older sibling (along with Wen Qing). I'm… going to think about that some more. Lan Xichen is definitely in a confidant type role to Lan Wangji, much as Jiang Yanli is to Wei Wuxian. They are both better at 'reading' the truth of their younger brother's emotions than pretty much anyone else is. And they're both calmer personality types, too.

Lan Wangji may be feeling a little left out now that NHS has joined their journey — once Nie Huaisang shows up, WWX is basically all over him, hanging around his shoulder and calling him Nie-xiong again. But WWX has not forgotten about LWJ at all — he notices when LWJ stops walking, and then grabs his wrist and tugs him along when LWJ hesitates because of the crowd. When they talk about poetry, we learn as a character note, that while NHS can't memorize the Lan Sect rules, he is very capable of remembering things that actually interest him, like stories about poetry, etc.

We do also see here that NHS has genuine admiration for LWJ — he isn't just intimidated by him, though he is a bit, he also admires his grace and elegance. Which makes a lot of sense, of course. A large part of NHS's character is his admiration of beauty and artistry. Of course he notices those traits in LWJ!

WWX turns it into a bit of a teasing thing, and NHS is very indignant about WWX's inability to admire LWJ's aesthetic beauty (he might also be thinking about how his own robes are actually whiter than LWJ's are at the moment), but then WWX steals another look at LWJ and smiles a little and doesn't look away until NHS elbows him (gently).

The three of them go to investigate the poetry story situation but they find an empty house and trampled flowers. NHS notices a feather on the ground and recognizes it as being from the shadow-bird that the Wens use to spy. Okay, so THIS is where the last piece of Yin Metal was. There was one with the Wen Qing goddess, one in the Cloud Recesses, one with the Chang clan, one here with this flower-poetry family (... I didn't catch their name), and then the last (unknown by pretty much everyone) piece with the murder turtle.

Okay, and this is what prompts WWX to tell NHS about the Yin Metal. That makes sense. He knows that Nie Mingjue knows, and now NHS has essentially been dragged into a potentially dangerous situation without much knowledge about it. So, I think it's fair and makes a lot of sense for WWX to read NHS in on the situation, given that he is the sect leader's brother and potentially now at risk. NHS is concerned about their safety while WWX is more concerned about the mission and his partnership with LWJ — and he makes it clear here that he doesn't consider telling NHS about the fragment as adding him to that partnership.

I am also intrigued by the mini-foreshadowing of NHS asking WWX to come to Qignhe for his safety. Someone who cares about WWX and is worried about his safety as he travels a dangerous path, asks him to come home with them so he can be safer. Huh. They discover here that they're being spied on by the Wen shadow-bird, so it doesn't go any further than that.

Okay, okay, I think I have the whole goddess-connection the way they did in the drama figured out. I mean, the reasons why they did it that way. Because they wanted a more straight-forward chronological narrative, they needed to add more plots to the younger storyline, but they didn't want to make up too many things out of whole cloth. So, they took the events that had happened in the present timeline and moved them to the past but made sure to have NHS there for this particular episode so that he would experience this event with WWX and LWJ. This creates an empty space in the present-day timeline that can be easily filled in with NHS once all the information is in place — NHS saw the goddess when she was active, we saw the fan behind the screen in episode 1 — so it's about placing NHS at the scene, essentially, imo. That's my theory.

Wen Qing is trying to figure out how to foil Wen Chao's plans without alerting him. Is it because of a fondness for WWX or, at this point, does she just feel like she owes him for what he did and was willing to do to protect her brother? When Jiang Cheng arrives, she realizes she has a chance, but she wants to try to be discreet (I think this ends up not working in that sense? Wen Chao realizes she's to blame, I believe. We'll see!). So she doesn't return his greeting (and he is happy when he initially sees her) and plays the echo game, essentially, to make him feel like she's mocking him, so that she can get up in his face and give him a private message without, hopefully, alerting the Wen guards that she's doing it.

Oh, is this Dafan Mountain lady the same 'granny' that takes care of Wen Yuan later on? I feel like she is and it would make sense given that this is Wen Qing and Wen Ning's original home. I do like the spooky atmosphere that's set up here. The actual effects and acting from the extras we get when the trap is 'triggered' essentially doesn't live up to the set-up, but I feel like a lot of that is budget issues, so I sympathize.

I don't, in general, have a lot to say about fight scenes, though this fight does have some visual echoes to the later fight with the Xuanwu, which I found interesting.

As to the puppeting of the off-shoot Wen clan here… I guess this is Wen Chao using the fragment of Yin Metal he has recently acquired? So their excessive slowness we can potentially attribute to him not being very good at it? I mean, the real reason is budgeting issues, I'm sure, but I can kinda squint and make it work. They aren't scary, though.

Next episode: the road trip/treasure hunt continues!

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#mdzs meta #cql rewatch #wangxian #the untamed #the untamed | chen qing ling #mdzs #mo dao zu shi

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