#this fanon is my canon and you can fight me on that
Note
okay so I’ve seen and loved a bunch of these posts already but everything u say is immediately correct and amazing and sending u asks is the best
opinions on why zukka works and makes sense as a ship and if you think it could work in canon (outside of fanon)?
I CANT BELIEVE YOU JUST MADE MY ENTIRE LIFE COMPLETE AND FULL BY ASKING ME THIS QUESTIONNNN (strap in folks hold on to your hats keep a good hold on your bladders bc this is 10+ years worth of BUSINESS)
Why "Zukka" works and makes sense as a ship
something i've discussed THROUGHLY with my notes app and a school slides presentation is that Zuko and Sokka are both direct parallels AND contrasts to one another, at the same time. i'll list them out here:
Their fathers' roles in their lives
Both Hakoda and Ozai were the leaders of their respective nations, with Sokka and Zuko as the heirs. Then, they both become absent in their sons' lives and leave them to fend for themselves.
This is a parallel, but this is also where they contrast. Sokka's father left to go fight in the war, a noble and honest pursuit, and left Sokka to protect his sister and the village.
Ozai, on the other hand, cast Zuko out of the nation and forced him to protect and defend himself, while effectively turning all their people and his own sister against him.
Their sisters' roles in their lives
Despite both of them being the oldest sibling and brother, they both have severe inferiority complexes due to their younger, powerful bending sisters.
With Katara, she was the only waterbender in the entire tribe, a marvel. She could learn to protect the tribe in a way that Sokka had been trying all his life, and she eventually does. Despite all this, Katara is still a grounding and valued person in his life, and he would be completely lost without her (something he openly admits to in canon!!)
With Azula, she was a prodigy firebender, while also being a special kind of keen and cunning. She was adored by their father and grandfather and Zuko could never quite measure up. Because of this, Azula is the main villain in Zuko's childhood. She does everything she can to break him down, and that continues when she returns as a character in his life in season two. All throughout the show, instead of being a source of comfort and familial love, she is his main obstacle he must overcome.
The loss of their mothers
Both Sokka and Zuko lost their mothers at very young ages to the Fire Nation, but they had vastly different impacts on their families (and further developed their sisters' roles in their lives!!)
When Sokka's mother died, she was killed by a Fire Nation general. Katara quickly took over the motherly role in his life, cementing her place as a grounding and comforting force. Her death also did not break their family. It deeply hurt all of them, but Katara, Sokka, and Hakoda still loved one another just as much as before.
When Zuko's mother died (obviously not really, but this is what he believes for many years), she was "killed" in order for his father to ascend to the throne and become Fire Lord. This left Zuko without anyone to protect him from Azula's tormenting and cemented her place as a destructive, villainous person in his life. Ursa's death also did destroy their family. Whatever way she had managed to keep them all together was eradicated, and Zuko was left with a sister and father that resented him and a sister fighting for his place in the line of succession.
Their obessesions
Both Sokka and Zuko had two bone-deep obsessions that were very defining parts of their characters in the first season, that slowly wavered and faded away as the story progressed and they developed as people. They were both given these obsessions by their fathers immediately before they became absent in their lives (whether leaving themself or sending their son away) and proceeded to dedicate their entire life to these goals in the name of honor.
With Sokka, his father asked him to protect his sister and his village. Sokka then dedicates all his time and energy to becoming a brave soldier and training the children of the village in order to protect his people. This is seen further in season one even after they leave, when he is overly protective of Katara and constantly worried for her safety (something this fandom doesn't talk about enough!!)
With Zuko, his father sent him on a wild goose-chase to find the hundred-years-lost Avatar, and when he actually does, all he can do is chase after Aang so he can go back home. As we see in season three, letting go of capturing the Avatar was essentially letting go of his former self.
Unlearning their flawed cultures (the big one!!!!)
Both of their cultures had many flaws that became ingrained in their belief systems and characters; their whole development is dedicated to unlearning these flawed teachings and reorienting their perception of the world.
It is very obvious throughout the shows that the Water Tribe had strict gender roles that were both implicitly and explicitly taught from birth. The men go off to fight in the war, the women take care of the children, Sokka has to protect his "defenseless" little sister, etc. Suki helped start him on the journey of unlearning his deeply-rooted misogyny, and by the end of the series he's really drinking the Respect Women Juice™️ (unlearning the flaws of his culture also brought him much closer to his sister and strengthened their bond and respect for one another)
The Fire Nation is a lot more complicated with a lot more cultural nuances and implicit and explicit teachings, but we'll focus on one central cultural theme: the constant prioritization of ambition over absolutely everything else, including (if not especially) love. (I actually talk about this extensively in another analysis post about Azula, if you want to check that out<3) We see Zuko battle with this teaching all throughout the series, and it is the main conflict he faces, at its heart.
We watch him commit his entire life to capturing the Avatar in season one. We watch him betray his uncle in season two. We watch him, time and time again, put his own health and safety on the line trying to capture Aang, especially in season one. Constantly, over and over again, he puts his ambition first because that was what he was taught.
And though this is a trait him and Azula share, it is also what pits them against each other. Azula's entire character is built on putting ambition first, and that leads her to chasing the throne that is Zuko's birthright. Zuko just wants to go home, but that would reestablish him as the heir to the throne. Time and time again, we watch them fight and betray each other, constantly battling for this crown for a broken nation. In the end, it is Azula's undoing, but that's another post.
All in all, unlearning the flaws of their culture is central to their development as characters and a place where they parallel... but it is also a place where they directly (and perfectly) contrast.
Despite the cruelty of the Fire Nation, they are the only military that includes women. They seem to not really struggle with the same gender roles the rest of the world does. They may be colonizers, but they're not misogynists. Zuko never looked down on his sister because she was a woman, nor did her father. It was always her propensity for cruelty that undid her. (They even send a team of highly skilled women to capture the Avatar!!)
This is a direct contrast to the teachings of the Water Tribe, which are entrenched in misogyny and gender roles. The men go off to war, the women stay behind. The men are strong, the women are weak. Can you imagine how much Zuko could have assisted Sokka in his development here? (blah blah directly paralleling Suki's role in Sokka's life blah blah blah)
In the Water Tribe, love and family comes before everything. We see that time and time again. Sokka's main priority, every time, is his sister and his tribe. They stick together. They love one another. They are united, with one person leading them as a group but not standing over them like a tyrant. "Ambition" seems like a mostly unheard of concept in their nation. The only ambition we ever really see from Sokka is when he's trying to protect his tribe (season one finale)!!
Can you imagine how much Sokka could have helped Zuko unlearn his constant prioritization of ambition?? Like, come on. All the things Zuko was left to stew with and angst over all on his own Sokka could have gently taken into his own hands and shown him the way. Like, it actually makes me go feral just thinking about it. Sokka could have helped Zuko so much!! (pushing the Ba Sing Se Zukka AU rn)
Consensus
Okay, let's recap. It looks like Zuko and Sokka are both direct parallels and contrasts, paralleling in the ways that allow them to understand each other but contrasting in the ways that help them heal one another. Like, it's actually insane. I really don't know if it was intentional or not but it's really just so perfect. They slot together perfectly as characters. I hope this all made sense😭😭
Could "Zukka" work in canon?
Now, this is tricky. Believe it or not I'm actually really glad they didn't make Zukka canon. ATLA had a huge problem with writing good romance, and in the canon we saw in the show, neither Sokka or Zuko were in a place to get together.
I've enjoyed my fair share of Zukka AUs where they get together before the end of the war, but you and I both know that would have been a hot mess. (Both of them just weren't ready, they were both in relationships, and sorry but they were kinda busy—Katara was right about the whole "there are other things to worry about.") If they were ever to get together in canon, it would have to be years after the war ended.
Let's address a few things that needed to happen before they could ever have gotten together:
Finally admitting that Maiko was just an extreme example of comphet
Zuko did not give a single shit about that girl. Like. He didn't even personally go get her out of prison WHEN SHE WAS LITERALLY ARRESTED FOR PROTECTING HIM😭😭 And then they try to play off their story as some big epic romance?? uhhhh no
(really, Mai was in long-time unrequited love with Ty Lee that was finally requited after Boiling Rock but idk if society is ready for that yet)
Not to mention, Azula literally forced both of them into that relationship, but if I get started with that I'll never stop so. Moving on.
Figuring out Sokka and Suki
Okay, so while there is a good chance that Sokka and Suki could have made it work in canon, there is also a good chance they would have broken up. They both had very different priorities: while they both did care about overall world peace, it was obvious from Suki's first introduction that her Kyoshi Warriors were her top priority every time, and Sokka's was his tribe, his found family (Aang, Katara, Toph, Zuko, yk yk), and world peace at large. You're telling me those don't conflict? Especially because they really seem like a Piper/Jason situation, where they found comfort and love in each other during wartime but wouldn't have known how to keep up the relationship without the constant threat of death.
Overall, in order for Zukka to work, Sokka and Suki would have had to break up, which would not have been difficult to arrange.
Sokka needed to go home and begin rebuilding the Water Tribe
No matter how much I adore fics where Sokka stays behind in the Fire Nation and helps Zuko rebuild, it just wouldn't work. Sokka's obvious priority had always been his tribe. The second the war was over (ignoring the comics bc that's a can of complicated worms i don't want to get into), he would've gone back with Katara to work on rebuilding their destroyed tribe. Only once the Southern Tribe could stand steadily on its own two legs could he have even considered leaving.
Anyways, that's really it. In order for Zukka to work, three plot points would have to be resolved: Maiko, Sukka, and the reparation of the Southern Water Tribe. Extremely doable, imo.
Personality-wise and just as characters, would it have worked?
I really think it would have! Like I said before, Sokka and Zuko are two characters that perfectly parallel and contrast at all the exactly right points to make them slot together flawlessly as a pair. (Whether that's romantic or not—doesn't matter.) Really, I genuinely think they are a real missed opportunity. I have genuinely never seen two characters that seem so different that actually work that well together, or even just characters that work that well together at all.
Like, I really mean it, they are perfect matches. It's genuinely scary. Like it or not, no one will ever be able to replicate the perfection of what Zukka could have been.
Anyone that says that it's "random" or "doesn't work" obviously hasn't been watching the same show or simply just hasn't been paying attention. People might ship it just because it's opposites attract or red and blue or even just the most accessible MLM ship in the fandom, but they really are perfect for each other.
alright, I think that's it! sorry for this monster of a post😭😭 genuinely did NOT expect that to happen. PLS SEND ME ANY ASKS YOU CAN THINK OF ABOUT THESE TWO!! i have spent a concerning amount of time thinking about them and these show has analysis potential for days, so. (and who knows, maybe i'll finally post the like three unfinished fics i have for them💀💀 god knows i should)
thanks for the ask, and have a great day <3
#atla#avatar#avatar the last airbender#zukka#atla meta#atla ana#atla analysis#zukka nation#atla zukka#sokka x zuko#zuko#sokka#atla sokka#atla zuko
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People who engage in the Hetalia fandom while openly disliking the source material and even Himaruya himself sound kinda like hypocrites to me.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but please stay away from me, this kind of mindset truly annoys me and makes me uncomfortable.
Am I gatekeeping? No, not really, I just believe that being a fan of something should mean, you know, being a fan and liking the source material at the very least. It should be like, the lowest the bar can get. Below that, there's not being a fan.
#if you live in your own delusion and your friends' fanon that's cool but I just can't bring myself to consider you a fan and#respect any of your opinions on the characters and anything else related to that#because really how can you have opinions on something you barely touch because 'ew canon am I right guys'???#idk I just don't understand this behavior and it makes me uncomfortable#I've been seeing this '''trend''' for quite a few years and it irks me so much#I too have some criticism of some parts of canon but spitting in the plate where I'm eating?? Nah that'd be so stupid and hypocritical#if you hate it so much then don't leech off hetalia tags#idk#you guys do you but still I will never understand nor support it#ary spoke#ofc I'm not talking about people who are new to it and are testing the waters with fanon content before actually watching/reading the sourc#material - I'm talking about the people who actively refuse to consume the source and openly hate on it and have done so for years while#still somehow engaging in the fandom and even getting mad when the most common portrayal of characters is you know CANON LEANING and#not mirroring their valid but understandably niche opinions that most often come from an interpretation of fanon#hence at least twice as far away from canon#I don't seek drama or anything please do not pick fights I just needed to get this off my chest
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anyway, i think my hot take regarding the whole canon vs fanon thing for the dpxdc fandom is that fanon is fine but it also gets boring. there's a reason why 90% of the dpxdc creative content feels exactly the same. i'm not trying to like,, shit on anyone's work, but so many of these fics are very, very similar in plot and dynamics. and that's a product of the fact that most of the fandom doesn't actually know anything about dc.
if you're relying solely on fandom osmosis to learn about the characters and events, then you end up missing out on a lot. it's not Bad, but it's basically the footnotes. the sparknotes. the starred review compared to the actual book. you aren't getting a lot, is what i'm saying. and that's why so much of the content feels exactly the same! it's because everyone is getting their info from the same decade old jokes. so creative work ends up blending into each other because the creators don't actually have anything else to work with (because they don't Know anything else) so they rely on the same five fanon jokes and headcanons that they do know.
as a dc fan, i Do encourage dpxdc fans to look into dc and read the comics and be more active on the dc side of things, not because fanon is inherently Bad, but because it opens up so many more avenues for creativity. i'd love to see people talk about danny fighting evil vampire nightwing or going on missions with karen or having fun with kara. but most dp fans don't even know characters outside of the most popular 10 and know even less about any of the plots or universes. so like, it's not exactly a surprise that every fic sounds the same. and like. does that not get boring to you guys?
#i'm sorry ik some of this sounds mean but its true aldghk#its not a bad thing but it is a noticeable thing#and im sure there are plenty of dp fans who are still having fun and dont mind this#but im sure there are also some dp fans who'd also like some variety#and that variety could be there! if you guys knew more about dc#there are so many characters! so many universes! so much you can do!#stop fighting about canon vs fanon and have fun with how much dc content there is!!#you don't have to read Everything but it definitely helps to read Some things#you'll get more ideas! more aus! more headcanons! more over the top jokes!#dc has SO much content for you to explore!!! why wouldnt you want to take advantage of that?#like you'll literally never run out of content to explore because there's just So much and they keep making more of it#even old forgotten characters get brought back every now and then#like! have fun with the canon that's there! and you'll be able to have more fun with your fanon!!!#dcxdp#im sorry but i really dont think ill ever be able to understand Why dp fans dont want to engage with canon dc content#its weird to me it truly is and i dont think anyone will change my mind honestly#ive seen all the replies and vague posts about it but it usually just amounts to#'we dont care about canon and we just want to have fun' which like. yeah. sure. but like..#are you saying you would have Less fun if you knew more about dc?#like..#if you genuinely like these characters then you would like their runs?? 😭 huh ???#it doesnt make sense to me! i dont get it! if you like them why would you have less fun reading about them!!#what!!#anyway yeah my hot take is that you should engage with the source material because it actually makes things More fun#why have dp fans convinced themselves that theyll hate dc canon i dont get it#its like reverse stockholm syndrome
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Lemme tell you, if the new show explicitly disproves any of my takes on how TMA’s world functions: No it didn’t, because I’m not going to listen to that thing until it’s over (not judgemental; just how I roll), and I don’t have to account for canon I don’t consume.
I might add/amend some of what I absorb by osmosis, if I like ‘em, but that’s a mighty big “might.”
Also, if my headcanons are cooler, I’m still sticking with them.
This is also how I’m approaching comics, for the record :P
(Awful lot of osmosis, but I am moseying my way forwards.)
#tma#tma crossover#batfam crossover#my life#mine#//#This is not me picking a fight TMA tag; this is me adding a condition I realized to an AU I'm brainstorming.#I mean#anyone who looks at it can tell I'm using the fanon cuddlier version of avatars than canon's brutal broken people#(again: also true for the batfam side of the equation)#I just like it when the horrors can coexist with the slice-of-life stuff. The glimpses we got of the avatars being seemingly normal people#is where a lot of TMA's comedy lies and also serves as a fascinating counter to what we know they're capable of.#''How do the horrors cope? What do the horrors eat for breakfast? Do the horrors have anyone they have boring normal conversations with?''#These are fun questions! Plus there's a special simmering horror in the knowledge someone you interact with daily could be dangerous.#I want to joke about Eye avatars not being morning people just as much as I want to emphasize how fucking dangerous they are.#I like the pack/family thing certain Hunters seem to have going on; it suggests a softer side to those instincts. That's fun!#We got fuck all on how the Web works until s5 but I didn't like the Web side of s5's plot so I'm sticking with the first 4. EMPTY SANDBOX.#There will absolutely be a tribute Outsider POV bit about the barista who doesn't realize their regulars aren't human (or /safe/)#...If I ever get around to writing it
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Kinda weird to me when people make Gale blushie about sex or whatever in fanon because in canon he just walks up to you like WATCHING YOU FIGHT MADE ME HORNY IVE READ ABOUT THAT IN PORN. HAVE YOU ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THAT? like sorry the man canonically fucks and is bold as all hell. He says to you in front of God and everyone. There are Harper's who almost died and he's like they can wait I need to go tell my boyfriend that I need him carnally
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Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 2/∞
SHEN JIU VISITS BROTHELS ONLY TO SLEEP AND NOT FOR SEX
Rating: FANON - SUPPORTED
It is a widely-held belief in the fandom that Shen Jiu only visits brothels to sleep and for comfort, and never has sex with the women. However, the only thing that is directly stated is that his purpose for visiting brothels is for seeking the company of women, and because he feels more comfortable around women than men.
Though Shen Qingqiu was unpopular among his peers, it wasn’t to the extent of being kicked out of the communal sleeping quarters.
He just loathed being in close quarters with those of the same sex...
...Liking women wasn’t the least bit shameful, but treating women like saviors, cowering within their embrace and seeking courage from them…even without anyone saying it, Shen Qingqiu knew that was horrendously shameful.
There is nowhere that directly states he does not have sex while at the Warm Red Pavillion. In fact, after Yue Qingyuan sends Liu Qingge away during the confrontation, it states that:
One person’s [SQQ] clothes were mussed and disheveled, while the other’s [YQY] had not a thread out of place.
It's often argued that the dishevelled and undressed state (a few paragraphs later, Shen Qingqiu is putting his outer clothes back on) is due to Shen Qingqiu having a fight with Liu Qingge, however, in this scene, Yue Qingyuan is able to stop the fight before Shen Qingqiu can even draw his sword, or before an intense fight can occur.
Yue Qingyuan saw that the situation didn’t look good and pressed Shen Qingqiu’s elbow downward, preventing him from drawing his sword.
It's important to note that it is uncertain whether the two had already come to blows at this point, or if Yue Qingyuan was able to prevent any sort of physical fight from occuring. It is also uncertain whether Shen Qingqiu's state of undress and dishevelment is from sleeping at the brothel, fighting with Liu Qingge, or the earlier fight with BZP disciple Ji Jue, which we do know actually came to blows-- maybe it is a combination of the three.
Therefore, it cannot be said with certainty that Shen Jiu does not have sex with the women at Warm Red Pavilion. However, even if Shen Jiu had undressed to sleep there, it still doesn't mean that he had sex. There's just as much, if not more likelihood that it is only for companionship. He is never described as being fully undressed, so while he probably didn't remove his outer robe just for a fight with Bai Zhan Peak, he was still wearing his inner clothes, which would be normal for simply sleeping in.
There is more evidence that he does not have sex with the women at WRP than otherwise, however, especially when considering the infamous exchange between SQH and SQQ in Bai Lu Forest:
Shen Qingqiu asked. “And where am I supposed to find a male virgin’s pee out in the middle of nowhere?”
Once these words left his mouth, he realized that Shang Qinghua was gazing intently at him.
“Why are you looking at me?! As for my former self—let’s not talk about that for now. You wrote Shen Qingqiu’s original character yourself. He’s unsullied without, degenerate within, always burning with lust. He had an affair in his youth and sought prostitutes as an adult. You think I’m still a virgin? And don’t point at yourself, Shang Qinghua was written the same way.”
Though with this passage one can make a fairly good argument that Shen Jiu was a virgin, since Shang Qinghua never directly refuted what Shen Qingqiu was saying, it still cannot be said with complete certainty.
The accusation that Shen Jiu was a lecher who was visiting brothels simply to satisfy his lust is canonically false. The real reason that Shen Jiu visited brothels was to seek comfort. However, it is not explicitly stated that the comfort he sought out never included sexual relations, which could still be seen as part of that comfort.
In conclusion, it is fairly likely that Shen Jiu did not have sex at brothels, and only slept there, however, since only the intention was disproved in canon, and not the actions themselves, it cannot be stated as a directly-confirmed, canonical fact and may be interpreted otherwise.
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Vent post y'all are gonna hate me for.
I viscerally hate how the Duffers treat most of their non white or queer characters and I hate even more viscerally, how y'all big byler blogs in your circle jerk of other 5 big byler blogs casually like to ignore many red flags the show has.
Y'all like to say: "tHe DufFeRs ArE gReAt WrIteRs" and it's like girl, who are you lying to??? They aren't top shit writers at all. The Duffers are pretty mid imo. Yeah, they run a good show that's fun to watch and theorize abt , but that doesn't mean they're good writers cuz they're not.
1. they completely side lined Will during s3 for the sake of their straight romances: lumax, jancy, mlvn, duzie and partly stobin (even if stobin wasn't endgame, thankfully, Steve's intentions were clearly wanting to date Robin and they gave it a lot of screen time). Will was sidelined bc he didn't fit the straight romance plotline bc they planned to make him gay or whatever. Now in s4 Will and his feelings have been used as mlvn toilet paper. Yes, we like to say this is build up for byler but canonically, Will's feelings have been used to clean the shit mlvn leaves behind.
2. Billy was sympathized a lot during the last 2 seasons. They gave him the sad backstoryTM in order for ppl to feel sorry for him. Billy's backstory is literally Jonathan's but whatever.
3. El's anger issues are constantly girlboss-ified. They down play her bullying situation and literally just use it for El to be a ''girlboss" without realizing how triggering that is. As someone who has lived bullying, seeing it be ignored by canon and fanon is super sad. The whole Rink-O' Mania experience must have been so traumatizing for her yet, everyone absolutely forgets abt it 🤷🏻♀️
4. Robin, Erica and Argyle are stereotypical characters. Robin is the quirky lesbian with social anxiety, Erica is the badass black woman and Argyle is the Latino stoner that sells weed to white kids and works as a pizza delivery guy.
5. Altho Argyle and Eddie both do drugs, (Eddie actually sells K-12 to a minor and nobody batted an eye. He has a huge fan base). Eddie is held in a pedestal bc "poor thing 🥺 he lives in a trailer with his uncle 🥺". Tell me a single fact you know abt Argyle that isn't "he smokes weed", "he is Jonathan's only friend", "drives a van" and "he works at a pizzeria". Exactly, Eddie is given a useless backstory and Argyle isn't.
6. Dustin stopped being important to the plot sometime around s2 and s3. He is only there to curse and be mildly funny. My guy needs to hangout with ppl his age cuz he only hangs out with seniors.
7. El needs to stop having so much "I'M THAT BITCH" screentime like I need in s5 for El's arc to not just be her becoming more powerful and falling in love with Mike. I need the Duffers to explore her trauma and problems.
8. Angela should have been run over by the van.
9. Patrick should have been given a backstory that isn't the basic "strict black parents that hit their kids cuz they are a disgrace". Patrick's backstory is actually racist af, fight w the wall.
10. As Lex already said, they didn't trigger tag the ep where Jason and his friends assault Lucas and Erica. Like wtf? Why was that necessary? Why did I have to see a black boy being held at gunpoint by some white guy?? Was it relevant to the plot?? I don't think so. And then I've got to see ppl online be like "Jason wasn't that bad. He was just mourning" like bitch you can stfu. This is what happens when you make the racist assholes conventionally attractive.
Also the fact that Lucas's arc is fulfilled by him fist-fighting Jason and "embracing his weirdness" aka accepting he is black. His arc was not fulfilled at all cuz that ending spoke so loud to me. It showed how little empathy ppl have towards the struggles poc ppl living in the Midwest have. Y'all circle jerks can only see racism when it's super obvious.
Furthermore, parents complained when ST showed "an excessive amount of smoking" yet nobody batted an eye when Billy tried to run over Lucas, when Erica (an 11 y.o ffs) was chased by white kids or when Lucas was held at gunpoint by Jason.
All of this happened while they focused on Max's guilt and mourning that, yeah, are important but certainly not less important than racism!!!
11. In s3, they gave us that whole Nancy vs The Bigots arc that was honestly just triggering and useless. It didn't help Nancy's character at all, quite the opposite it put unnecessary angst.
12. Lonnie being presented as an abuser just for him to never be spoken of again. Can we please get to explore the trauma he left the Byers's with?
13. The fact that both queer relationships are considered "sloppy seconds" is extremely sad. Both Vickie and Mike are rebounding from their failed relationship with Robin and Will. These 2 ships have caused more commotion than Jancy and Jopper together! (These last ships are technically sloppy seconds too but everybody forgets that. Shocker!!)
14. Last but not least, ppl blame Argyle for being the one to get Jonathan into smoking weed as if Jonathan probably wasn't the one looking for it. Let me tell you, that you only find weed if you look for it.
#P.S: I'm gonna pay attention to how many ppl send me hate bc of this or block me#stranger things#lucas sinclair#st vickie#robin buckley#jason stranger things#will byers#dustin henderson#eddie munson#argyle#jonathan byers#erica sinclair#byler#← target audience#byler target audience
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I don’t think Jason has ever hated Tim
I recently revived my Jason Todd hyperfixation from its torpor and realized I had... Means and Ways of reading as many comics as I want for free, so I made the transition from Fanon Only to having read Lost Days, Under the Red Hood, Teen Titans #29 (where Jason fights and beats the tar out of Tim), Hush, Red Hood and the Outlaws (the majority of both runs), Red Robin: The Grail, Batman and Robin: Streets Run Red, Green Arrow #70 - #73 (where Jason kidnaps Mia), Battle for the Cowl, and a smattering of other bits and bobs, all within the last month.
I have come to the conclusion that the idea that Jason hated Tim before slowly learning to be okay with him is completely backwards.
Jason starts respecting Tim as a fellow combatant after basically their first meeting, and was sympathizing with him even before. Fandom talks a lot about how Jason repeatedly tried to kill Tim, but I think there’s a good argument to be made that actually Jason has never tried to kill Tim, and there’s a better argument that Jason has never tried to hurt Tim out of a dislike for him.
Tim is the one who feels viciously betrayed by Jason, hates his guts, and depending on if you blend in the New 52 either learns to begrudgingly like him or just stays hatin.
Obviously I need some proof here, since this goes completely against the grain of every relationship interpretation I’ve ever seen for them, so approximately seven miles of character analysis under the cut lmao
I’m gonna try to go in chronological order of the characters’ history here, which means we’re starting with Lost Days, and Jason’s first reaction to finding out there’s a new Robin:
This does not look like anger to me.
Lost Days is only six issues long, and this is the entirety of the pages devoted to Jason’s feelings on Tim. Jason succeeds in a plan that would have almost certainly killed Batman if Jason had gone through with it. Jason undeniably has Joker dead to rights at one point, but lets him go. Jason at no point in this story attempts to harm Tim at all.
Now for Hush.
Context for fanon only folks: this is where the “throat slitting” bit happens.
Context for a lot of confusion: I don’t know if Jason is the one who holds Tim hostage or not.
In the original Hush plot line this is only Clayface; Jason isn’t here at all. It was later retconned in Under the Red Hood that Jason was actually in this fight for... some amount of time. It’s highly unclear to me when they swap out. Probably because originally, they didn’t swap out. Oh well! In either case, it’s now canon that Jason coached Clayface on his acting, so for the purposes of this essay, Imma hold Jason responsible for the throat damages and the words said regardless of who did what!
Right off the bat: this is a hostage taking, not a murder. Yes, Clayson Jayface does nick Tim’s neck and absolutely makes the threat of murdering him to Batman, but it’s clearly a threat. Like, look at this panel:
He is talking a lot. This isn’t an attempt to kill Tim, it’s an attempt to screw with Batman. No matter who this is, they have every reason to expect that Batman will stop them before they do any permanent damage. Can you see that little, blurry, half-hidden line of red? Lets look at what the damage was later on:
The bleeding was stopped by a bit of cloth, some pressure, and he’ll need stitches eventually, but they can clearly wait, and Tim doesn’t seem alarmed. That’s enough to scar, and enough that it is perfectly reasonable for Tim to assume that he would have died if he hadn’t been rescued.
However, Jason being deeply protective of kids is a reasonably consistent character trait. “You really think I’m gonna bring the pain to a ten year old?” Even at Jason’s most villainous, he is willing to put himself in danger in order to protect his own sidekick Scarlet. I think it would be very out of character for him to have gone through with it. Combined with Jason’s later actions and the general fact that a hostage is pretty useless dead, I come to the conclusion that Jason was bluffing.
It is ambiguous though, and I admit that this is probably the weakest link in the “Jason never tried to kill him” chain.
But enough of that, was he angry with him? Is the hate there?
I argue no, and that really there’s no emotional investment in Tim at all. In terms of hard numbers the pages Jalay Toddface spends holding Tim hostage is 3 and the number he spends fighting Batman is 13 and the number of times he even so much as LOOKS at Tim is ZERO, like actually, literally ZERO TIMES. He does not spare poor Timmy a SINGLE GLANCE.
Now make a special note here because those three pages of no eye contact from someone who might not even be Jason are the ONLY times that Tim is called Pretender or Imposter.
I’m relying on this research done by Kiragecko: https://kiragecko.tumblr.com/post/128411908944/bat-sibling-interaction It only goes up to Battle for the Cowl, (as does this essay it turns out, I just don’t know how to bridge between that and the New 52) so it isn’t every interaction ever, but it’s still excellent research, go leave a like.
According to them: “Comments: Tim thinks about Jason a lot while he’s first training. He imagines the former Robins giving him pep talks, and uses them to fight off fear gas. When Jason comes back, though, Tim’s really nasty, especially in his head. Jason, however, is somewhat respectful. He usually calls Tim ‘Tim’, and seems to kind of like him. ‘Pretender’ and ‘Imposter’ are things that CLAYFACE said, not Jason.“
How many times are those said? Once. Each. That’s it. As a comment under the Jason and Tim post done by Kiragecko points out, “Replacement” doesn’t even get used.
Under the Red Hood is basically THE Jason Todd comic. To my memory he doesn’t interact with Tim in it. However, it does contain that aforementioned reconning! So we get to see his reasoning during this encounter.
And it very very clearly isn’t at all about Tim.
Moving on to Titans Tower, which is indisputably focused on Tim: When he fights Tim, he is absolutely violent and over the line, but he’s NOT out of his head. Jason is clearly very lucid and careful about what he’s doing.
Is he angry? Of course! He’s angry at the Titans who in his mind cared about him way less than their other members, and accepted a replacement robin as though his life, his whole flesh and blood self, was something that could be so easily forgotten and swapped out.
But I think it would be a mistake to assume that Jason’s at all mad that he isn’t Robin anymore.
A very interesting direct parallel to this fight is when Jason kidnaps Mia, Green Arrow’s sidekick Speedy, fights her, appeals to their commonalities and encourages her to solve crime his way rather than Green Arrow’s way.
In both scenarios Jason engineers a way to isolate a sidekick and attempts to teach them something through combat. He makes a direct appeal to them against their mentors, and seems genuine about what he’s saying. He also lets both of them live, and with Mia is honestly pretty damned polite about it all. At least, as polite as a guy can be about kidnapping you and encouraging you to try to kill him in your high school gym that he definitely should not know about.
The plain fact of the matter is that Jason knocked Tim out, had time to paint his whole ass name way up high on a wall, and did not kill him. This is the same Jason who just prior to that took out all of Tim’s allies non-lethally. The same Jason who kept Mia’s protector’s busy non-lethally. The same Jason who cuts Mia free and gives her weapons back and starts slow in their fighting to make sure he doesn’t hurt her too badly. The same Jason who seems to feel very strongly that killing, trafficking, or selling drugs to kids is an unforgivable offense and very clearly sees Tim as a kid.
Quite frankly, this reads not like a murder, and not like a jealous beatdown, but an attempt to convince Tim that he’s going to get himself killed and needs to get out while he still can. In Jason’s mind before they meet, Tim is purely A Robin, a kid who deserves better than to be put into danger against the same monsters over and over again until he finally slips up and dies.
Is this a hairbrained and back asswards way of doing that? Yes! But it does track for someone who tries to do all of his talking through his actions, which do speak louder than words, but unfortunately C-4 loudness is not actually a significant boon to nuanced communication.
If you want to put it in a less charitable way (and maybe we should, this is a bonkers asshole move on Jason’s part no matter how you slice it) then we can say Jason is testing Tim, trying to see if this one has what it takes to be better than he was, to survive where he couldn’t. Personally I think it’s a mix of both, and for this end of that emotional mess: Tim passes the test.
Jason leaves while talking about Tim in present tense, showing that he has every expectation of Tim being alive, and praises him in the process:
Did you know that the fun panel of Tim kicking Jason in the nuts is actually from the same comic run, about twenty or so issues later?
Did you know that the argument they were having starts with Dick and Tim wrestling with Jason and accusing him of a murder he did not commit, and in fact tried to save the victim from?
Did I mention yet that the death in question was of Duela Dent, aka the JOKER’S DAUGHTER, whom Jason caught attempting to hold a young woman hostage for ransom? And that Jason repeatedly shot her getaway balloon instead of her and then tried to save her life immediately afterwards despite the fact that she was going to let the hostage plummet to their death? And it is implied that part of the reason he’s so easy on her is because of “Once a Titan always a Titan” loyalty, with this being our first clue that Jason isn’t the one shooting at her anymore?
Did I also mention that he comes to her funeral in part to be around Donna (the starry leotard lady whose statue he smashed) because it’s nice to be around people who understand being displaced by their own death? And that the one who sticks up for him in this scene is Donna?
At risk of negating my own thesus here, I’d say it’s reasonable to think that maybe Jason feels rage-hate for Tim in this “kicked in the dick while Dick grins smugly” moment.
Lets go now to Robin #177 at the tail end of the 1993 to 2003 run - Bruce has “died” and Tim hasn’t yet gone on his epic quest to find him. Tim finds Jason unifying street gangs with the intent to bring them under control and solve the current crisis. He appeals to Tim for help with this, in fact he comes off as almost puppy dog eager to work with him, and seems really sad when he says fuck no.
This is one of the first fights in which Tim really holds his own against Jason, and I am very proud of him, yes :3
This gets Jason arrested. Then Tim actually goes through with a heavily modified, less violent version of Jason’s plan that Jason didn’t think could work. A few issues later, when Tim decides that he’s going to try to honor what Bruce would have wanted by springing Jason out of jail, Jason makes note of that.
Jason is pretty damned civil at their next meeting, even though Tim makes it pretty damned clear he doesn’t want him around.
And now... we have to talk about Battle for the Cowl.
I’ve seen it described as a masterclass in how NOT to write Jason Todd, due to it portraying him as being an absolutely off his rocker anger murder violence man. I am inclined to agree.
In this three issue comic Jason Todd has been dRiVeN mAd (in the most bullshit comic sense of that word) by Bruce’s will... telling him to go to therapy. Yeah. So uh, he dons a Batman suit to shoot people in AND pretends to be Black Mask so he can enslave a bunch of villains Amanda Waller style, and like it gets weird from there. It is an extremely jarring transition from that last scene to GUNS BAT HATE MAN.
He still does not hate Tim in it. I really, seriously thought I was going to have to make a lot of excuses for this portion but then the more I read of it the more vindicated I was cause let me repeat: One of the most unhinged with Bat hate and crazy juice versions of Jason ever put to print does not hate Tim at all.
Hell, he likes Tim! He compliments him!
And on top of that, even though he is MUCH more lethal against his fellow robins when they attack him - Jason straight up shoots a ten year old Damian in the chest. It’s fucked. - There is still evidence to suggest that Jason deliberately didn’t kill Tim when he had ample opportunity.
Jason first of all never hunts Tim down. I’ve heard Battle for the Cowl described as Jason tracking Tim down or kidnapping him or going after him to force him to Be His Robin, but that’s just not how it goes.
Instead he waits for Tim to come find his Batcave, disorients him, and goes for a ton of surface cuts. He only actually goes for a real body blow after Tim picks up a crowbar and beats Jason across the face with it a few times.
(Again, proud of you Timmy)
After the stabbing, Jason doesn’t just leave Tim there; this isn’t a matter of hurrying on before he could check. He’s seen dragging Tim off. When Nightwing later comes to rescue him, Dick is downright certain Jason is lying to him about Tim being dead because Jason is refusing to show him the body and Dick figures it’s because he knows there’s no body to show (if in part because he can’t let himself believe Tim is dead without hard proof).
Tim himself wonders about this, noting that the batterang was rusted and shattered on his armor.
Sure, Tim used playing possum to make his pulse slow to a near stop for a while, maybe that fooled Jason, but keep in mind that BRUCE taught Tim that skill, and if there’s one thing these comics have established, it’s that Jason is dangerous precisely because he is so intimately familiar with the techniques of the Bat. Jason even makes specific note of the fact that Tim being trained like Bruce and fighting like Bruce would be his downfall at the beginning of their fight.
The whole comic leaves me wondering just how much of what happened went completely according to Jason’s plan. I really would not put it passed him to engineer a ‘death in the family’ recreation for the next Batman in line! As much as I agree that this is garbage characterization for him in many many ways, I do think Jason makes a fantastic villain. I love to see him run rings around the Bats in some places, and make lemonade out of getting his ass kicked in others.
No matter how we interpret the stabbing here though, what does seem very clear to me is that Jason makes the Be My Robin offer to Tim first and foremost because he thinks pretty highly of Tim! He’s been rejected by Tim at least three times over but keeps holding a hand out for him. This does not seem like Tim hater reaction hours here!
Also that whole thing about kids being dragged into this vigilante life irresponsibly? Yeah that’s still there!
I have TRIED to find evidence that Jason hates Tim at like literally any point here. I have gone through the shit people point to. I have looked at the context around those and dug up more obscure interactions for second and third views. Everywhere I look I just see more instances of Jason complimenting Tim!! It’s driving me nuts!
The only conclusion that I can come to is that people read this stuff and just trust that Tim is right about Jason. Tim’s internal view waaay more closely resembles fandom interpretation. Tim assumes that Clayson Toddface would absolutely have killed him in cold blood, that Jason beat the shit out of him purely to prove he was stronger, that he’s a brute, a moron, an active danger to society, and that every bit of leniency given to him will result in betrayal and death.
I don’t have clearer proof for it, but I also don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Tim probably believes Jason has it out for him and holds him responsible for his replacement.
So yeah. As a fascinating reversal of my expectations going in: I don’t think Jason has ever hated Tim, but boy fuckin howdy has Tim HATED Jason.
#jason todd#tim drake#character analysis#jason todd and tim drake#jason todd & tim drake#jaytim#jason todd/tim drake#robin#red hood#red robin
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Ugh im writing this on mobile but i’ve been thinking about it nonstop for an hour and I’m just- mmmmm thinking about Clone Danny and his wardrobe choice as Phantom. Cuz like, he doesn’t have any powers, right? He has no built-in secret identity and suit that he can change into in a flash of blinding circular light. If a ghost shows up he’s just got what he’s got on, and whatever he has in his bag.
And I’m just. I have a lot of thoughts about him and his canon self, thoughts that i dont think i can all fit on my phone and im. Thinking about the dichotomy between him and his canon counterpart. From an in-universe perspective, the halfa Danny Phantom looks remarkably human-like. Especially compared to the ghosts he fights, all of whom are unnatural colors, shapes, and sizes. From flaming hair to glowing eyes and pointed claws, there’s nothing about them that doesn’t scream “ghost!” “Inhuman!” “Unnatural!”
And then you look at Danny Phantom, the ghost boy fighting them. And he just… looks like a glowing human boy. The only unnatural thing about him is his white hair and green eyes - and green eyes is a natural human color. Maybe not the shade it’s in, but it occurs in human genetics. He’s about as close to human as he can get.
Think about that from an in-universe perspective, and then think about it with the idea that ghosts take pride in their ‘ghostly’ look. They pride themselves on looking scary; unnatural; inhuman. It’s a showcase of being unique, of their own individuality, of their interests and wants. Looking ‘scary’ is part of ghost culture, and if not scary, then unique and ‘inhuman’. They don’t want to fit in, they want to stand out.
And you look at Danny Phantom, as his canon self without any of the fanon customizations, and he’s none of that. He’s about as human-looking as a ghost can get. He’s got human-like skin, hell he’s even tanner than he is as a human! His hair is normal, his eyes are green but normal, his hands? Soft and round, not a claw in sight, and his teeth are blunt and ears are round.
His suit is all black, it doesn’t even tell you anything about him other than he probably died in a lab accident, and he looks like he’s straight out of a b-rate comic book. There’s no story to tell about him, he’s a book with the pages all blacked out in ink.
His name, if you take it as him only calling himself “Phantom” isn’t even all that unique. It’s a generic ghost term that you can find by googling ‘ghost’ and looking at its synonyms.
And then look at his behavior: yeah he fights ghosts, and fighting is all about ghost behavior. Its one of their social activities- but its clear from Phantom that he’s not being social. He’s being aggressive, he’s doing it for the sake of the living (which while fair, doesn’t make him look good in the context of everything else). Then he comes into the ghost zone, he doesn’t do much to integrate himself into the culture, and yeah he makes allies but it still doesn’t feel enough. He’s not participating in anything, he’s alienating himself.
All in all, Phantom looks like a ghost trying to pretend he’s human, that he’s still alive. And for a ghost culture that prides itself on not being alive? It’s insulting.
And then let’s circle back around to that human thing, but from a different angle. Probably one that’s more mindset than outside looking in. But Danny’s alienated by the rest of the town for ages despite helping them. And while him looking human likely has to do with his own mindset of viewing himself as “living, but with ghost powers” and thus reflects back as a ghost, it also makes it look like he’s trying to fit in with the humans.
“I am not a ghost” he says, with his human skin and blunt teeth. “I am human like you, see? See? I look like you.”
He’s making himself look approachable, friendly. ‘You can trust me, I’m not a ghost. I’m not like them. I’m not scary. I look just like you. I’m different.’ He looks about as harmless as a human child could be. He’s trying to be relatable. And in turn he’s giving his fellow ghosts a cold shoulder - i’m not like you, i’m better. I’m different. I’m not ghost. I may be dead, but I’m no ghost.
Danny is trying to tie his ghost self in with the living as much as possible - he wants them to think he’s almost human. The same way he wants to think that himself. He’s distancing himself from his ghost half and the ghostly qualities the others have. Whether intentional or not, he’s doing it.
He shows his face and goes ‘see? See? I’m just like you.’
And then lets look at clone Danny, mister not-a-halfa. Who doesn’t have his canon offensive capabilities, who only has his ghost sense and the ability to hit ghosts without gear, his scary eyes and pointed ears, and the ability to see weaker ghosts not visible to the mortal eye.
He has no ghost form, no powers. And yet the first time he goes out as Phantom, he wears a mask that looks like a skull. Instead of distancing himself from ghosts, he’s distancing himself from humans. And at first it stems from the need to be unrecognizable, the last thing he wants is for his parents to find out that he’s ghost hunting. To do that, he needs to hide his face. That’s the first step.
The next step is to act in such a way that people couldn’t possibly tie him back to Danny Fenton. He’s not distancing himself from ghosts, he’s distancing himself from humans. To do that, he acts inhuman. He wears his mask and wears baggy, shapeless clothes - his hoodie and his pants - and he learns how to act unsettling. His eyes glow green, unnatural and shining through his sunken-in, skull-like mask. But it’s not enough on its own. He must do more.
He wants to be the thing someone sees at night and turns the other way. See me and run, he says, crouched on all fours and crawling across a beam like a monster you see in a movie. Twisting his body in unnatural, fluid ways, like he’s not quite sure how having only four limbs work.
Run. He says, dead green eyes glowing through his mask, piercing through black night from the rooftop. I am wild thing. Come no closer, look no closer. I am not like you. I am not your friend. I bite. Run.
You cannot see my face. This is my face, I am not alive. I am not like you. I am an animal about to pounce.
He doesn’t want people to think he’s human, he doesn’t want them to think he’s anywhere close to it. Anything to prevent his parents from figuring out its him.
And the thing is, he doesn’t have to. He doesn’t have to appear ghost-like or inhuman to keep his identity safe, wearing a mask and wearing unidentifiable clothes is enough. But he’s choosing to act ghost-like; unsettling; scary.
And in doing so, he unintentionally participates in ghost culture. And while his clothes are not anything unique, or outstanding, his mask is. His clothes don’t tell anything about him, but that’s okay.
Imagine meeting this boy from a ghost perspective. This annoying, fleshy human boy who jumps into fights to stop you and catch you. You’ve heard stories of human ghost hunters, you know there are hunters on the other side. You have heard the horror stories, you have seen the scars.
And then this boy catches you. This human, fleshy boy who yells quips at you, who puns and insults you, who wears an unsettling mask and acts ghosty. He catches you, and you think you will be the next one on the chopping board.
And then you end up in the ghost zone, untouched. Unharmed. And you tell someone about it. You were caught and released by a human child who feels touched by death. And then you hear that the ones who’d been caught were freed by a fleshy human boy who was touched by death, and a boy who they call “Phantom”.
And, isn’t that the name of the child you fought?
And he talks to you, but then he’s in the daytime. There are living around. He doesn’t speak to them - he ignores them outright. He keeps his distance, he stays away. If he talks, it’s with his hands. They will not hear his voice.
I may be alive but I am no human.
And its just — ????? So good to think about. I’ll reblog later with more thoughts when I have my laptop, but god i just needed to get that out there.
#dpxdc#dp x dc#dp x dc crossover#dpxdc crossover#dpdc#clone^2#danny fenton is not the ghost king#danny fenton is a clone#like i wasnt thinking much about it when i made danny have no powers. like that was purely just for fun#and for a fun little parallel between him and bruce. and i thought the mask was cool#and now here we are doing a- what?? somewhat analysis of his outfit as phantom?#and his choice to appear as unhuman as possible?? as ghostly as possible???#its just so good. i love creepy phantom. he’s the thing you see crouched in the corner of the room#from the corner of your eye. you see him. and you jump but hes not there when you look#he’s the creature you see lurking in the alleyway. crouched like an animal about to jump.#‘come no closer. look no closer. i am not like you. i may be alive but i am no human’#i have teeth. and i will wrap them sround your throat and *pull*
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Hey. FMA Fandom. I freaking did it ok.
Lan Fan's *FULL* automail design from the manga? Yeah. It now finally exists.
Please accept this humble offering as fanon:
NOW EVERYONE DRAW HER!!!
ARAKAWA I HOPE YOU'RE PROUD!!!!!!!
Edit: I thought I'd leave some manga panels to point out a few things I don't have the skills to successfully translate in this ref sheet!
Explanations under the cut!
The armor plates on the shoulder are bigger than what I drew (I tried to put them at an angle but they just look smaller lol) I recommend just enlarging the top plate from the middle! It's supposed to hide most of the upper arm.
If you draw her in full uniform, she of course has bandages and that cool spiky leather strand around her wrist. The spiky knuckles appear to be a separate accessory as well.
The automail isn't all open right on top of the forearm, but on its side, as you'll see in the manga panels. I should've drawn the hand seen from the side but I wanted to show the screw on top of it beheheh.
The thought process behind Lan Fan's automail appears to focus on being as light as possible so that she can keep fighting with speed. Compared to Ed's very solid and armored automail to be as enduring as possible, Lan Fan's trades durability for lightness!
The mechanism for the hidden blade is basically just rings inside the fingers, to which are attached wires that are tethered close to a tiny hook. My thought process behind this is that we most likely want to avoid accidentally unsheathing the blade, so LF has to literally reach for it! It's a safety measure, but I also like that it makes her do a hand move kinda similar to Scar's whenever he's about to use his alchemy/alkahestry destruction for an attack!
For the port, have fun with it! I tried my best to give it an interesting look but I struggled with giving it a 3D metal feel. I focused more instead on where the support would be since the port can't be drilled on most of the chest. Drilled on the back it is!
Finally, if you notice the tiny lock I inserted in the simplified design, no it's not made to render the arm immovable; rather it's just there to secure the automail in the port. You know, during the process to connect the nerves. You attach the little wires, screw the bolts, and lock it all in neatly!
With this, I hope everyone will have fun drawing Lan Fan's full automail! It may not be canon, but it's at least better than nothing! So many art pieces just hide her automail because of that lack of reference, so I hope I helped change that!
(Note: the scars I gave LF on her right shoulder and left side aren't canon either. I saw an art piece way back when and somehow convinced myself that I just had never noticed in the show lol. But you can't tell me the bodyguard to a prince that canonically survived a bunch of assassination attempts wouldn't have a scar or two!!)
NOW DRAW YOUR HEARTS AWAY!!!
#everyone draw this#save this as a reference#if you draw using this use the following tag so I can see#altans design#there is no reason to hide her shoulder anymore#lan fan#lanfan#fullmetal alchemist#fullmetalchemist#fma#fullmetal alchimist brotherhood#fma brotherhood#fmab#fma fanart#fanart#reference
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I don’t have many Op friends I can talk about this with but one of my top ship tropes is when it’s established that Luffy is slow on the uptake regarding people’s relationships and even HE knows someone is in love and pining. Like, to make a point at how utterly obvious it is. Sanji cuts food for Usopp into little bite sized pieces? Luffy just asks him something that indicates Sanji and Usopp are in a relationship and the cook almost chokes. Nami tries to write a letter and is getting visibly frustrated at not finding the right words and he just looks over her shoulder like „Say Vivi I said hi!“. He witnessed Shank and Buggy finally meeting at laughtale and there is just a bunch of „I WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED YOU!“ „I never wanted you to leave!“ „YOU WERE A COWARD!“ „Why does that matter now?!“ „BECAUSE I ALMOST GAVE UP MY DREAM FOR YOU!“ and Luffy just looks at this insane display in front of him while his idol does a homoerotic sword vs dagger fight with a clown and just „Are you seeing this shit Zoro?“ like… congrats . You’re being such a lovesick idiot even Luffy is like „Damn bitch you got it bad“
Honestly, this is extremely in character and pretty much not far from the truth. Luffy, despite being a dumbass, is a very perceptive person when it comes to people's feelings. One of his best traits as a main character is that he's empathetic to the point of knowing how people feel or what they want without needing to know the background or the rest of the story. I actually hate when the fanon perception of Luffy gets simplified to "he's an idiot" because yeah, he might be reckless and stupid and he's very silly, but he's emotionally mature to a sickening extent. Savior complex much? (Not that he wants to be a hero, god forbid, he would hate that. I just mean that his constant need to save everyone so nobody he cares about dies on him or gets hurt again has made him really aware of his surroundings and people's feelings). And, well, tbh he has always been like that. Very honest and perceptive, I mean. He might be a bit slow when catching up to some things and he might not know why people feel what they feel sometimes, but he knows what they're feeling. Get me? Like he might be aware of Nami being mad at him, for example, and not knowing why, but being aware that he has to do something to change that.
What I want to say with all of this is that Luffy noticing romance within the crew is extremely canon because he knows how his friends act, and if he notices changes in a person towards someone else, he might be stupid but he's not that oblivious. Like, he knows something's up. And to him the whole concept of pining is so stupid because if you feel something, just let the other person know! But then again, his relationship with Zoro is just different from that, and not everyone can have a devoted long-term marriage without saying a word.
And his reaction towards people pining would be hilarious because the guy would be exhausted from the crew having crushes and not doing anything. A Sanuso trope I love is Luffy going to Usopp like "Hey, confess already because Sanji has been distracted lately, and if he stops cooking because he is sad and pining for you I will be very mad" and he says shit like this and goes away and leaves Usopp alone with that information as if it was the most obvious and normal thing to do. But, you know, Luffy gets things done around here, at least.
#he's so pookie honestly#and he's so sassy sometimes give me more sassy luffy#he's just like 'why can't everyone be like me and zoro'#and nami is like 'BECAUSE YOU TWO ARE BUILT DIFFERENT FROM HEAD TO TOE YOU TWO ARE NOT NORMAL'#one piece#monkey d luffy#sanuso#namivivi#zolu#shuggy
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i really love dc x dp tbh but i hate how so many fics end up making the batfam dumb as shit. and i don't mean in a "loveable goof" kind of way but in a genuine "these people don't have the skills or intelligence to be heroes" kind of way. which is just antithetical to their entire thing
sometimes it's because the writer just genuinely doesn't know anything about the batfam or what they've been through so they come across as idiots. and other times it's because the writer is writing op ghost king danny or just generally op danny and they genuinely think he could outsmart or beat them. more often than not, it's a combination of the two.
it's just so sad. like not only is it disrespectul to the batfam, essentially getting rid of all the skills and experience they have just to prop up danny, but it also makes things a lot more boring imo. don't get me wrong, i don't mind the occasional "main character is super op" kind of story, but it's boring when like 70% of fics are like that and there's no real challenge or obstacle for him. part of why the show danny phantom was so fun was that it was exciting and chair gripping to see danny have to deal with his new ghost powers, figuring out how to deal with ghost attacks or vlad, and dealing with school and his parents on top of that.
but often, dc x dp fics just,, get rid of any challenge for him. sure batman is a skilled detective but danny will always be able to trick him! sure cass has been trained since birth to read people's body language but this random ghost teen knows how to conceal and control everything!! yeah damian has also been trained since birth to fight and kill but this random guy from the midwest who just started fighting in his teens is so much better!!! like, alright. it's fun every now and then but it sucks when so much of the dc x dp content is just people acting like the batfam are the worst vigilantes/detectives in the world.
and honestly i still feel this way even with the ghost king danny fics because how? he's never had to deal with people obsessively reading his body language or reading between the lines. he's had to deal with hiding stuff sure but his parents aren't the most observant people - their whole deal was being neglectful. even as a ghost king, why would he know how to outsmart, take advantage of, or beat the batfam in any capacity when he would still mostly deal with ghosts. it's a completely different skill set here - one that he likely wouldn't be prepared for. it'd be fine if they at least attempted to explain why danny would have those skills (like league danny aus) but most of them don't.
and i'm not saying danny couldn't do it at all, especially if it's a ghost king au, but i'm just tired of seeing the batfam constantly downplayed in these fics Just to make danny look better, smarter, stronger, etc. ik most people in the fandom are just danny fans but it really shows with how they treat, characterize, and shit on the dc characters just to prop danny up. it also serves to occasionally make danny look like an asshole when he intentionally messes with them and basically commits psychological torture for a goof.
#man...#i Do like this crossover but i completely understand why so many dc fans hate it#the oocness the fanon the constantly making these skilled trained characters fumble around and get outsmarted by Some Guy#ghost king danny isn't even canon to dp! which isnt a bad thing by any means ik the dp fandom goes crazy for fanon#and generally speaking the fanon Is a lot more fun and engaging than dp's canon#but as a dc fan its insane to watch#i want to engage more with dc x dp content so badly like this crossover is really interesting to me#but so much of it is just 'the bat.fam are actually fucking useless and my blorbo is so much better :)))'#it's almost like they dont even like the bat.fam!!! they keep saying they just dont know/understand them#but it fully feels like they straight up dont like the dc characters#it definitely comes across as 'hey this is a fun world to put danny in lets do that while also shitting on it and all of the characters'#'lol bruce is so stupid this random teen can outsmart him and he can lie to cass and he can beat dick in a physical fight lol'#there's a point where it stops feeling like indulgent op blorbo and more like insulting anyone who isn't danny#<thats actually exactly what it is and its insane to me like why even like crossovers if you dont want to engage with anyone but danny#how can you say you like them when you outright refuse to know them or respect them?#and obviously im using 'you' in a vague way im not specifically calling anyone out#ik there are people in the fandom who are genuinely fans of both and Do know and respect the dc characters#but so far its very few and far between which is just such a fandom culture shock for me#like in most fandoms im able to read a lot of fics and only occasionally think 'thats not right'#but with this one its the other way around - im constantly going 'they wouldnt say/do that at all why does the op think that?'#like 9 out of 10 fics im like 'oh yeah this person has never read a comic in their life'#i can immediately tell when someone has only read the webtoon its extremely obvious unfortunately#maybe i should make a dc masterlist for dp fans... like here you can write about them again After you do your homework ajdhgl
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Underfell AU Sans romantic concept please?
Sure! I tried to keep him as close to canon as possible while also putting in some of my HCs. He's actually really fun to write :) I hope you like my take... sorry if you don't. There's a gap in the middle due to Tumblr's formatting.
Yandere! Underfell! Sans Concept
Pairing: Romantic/Platonic
Possible Trigger Warnings: Gender-Neutral Darling, Obsession, Violence, Overprotective behavior, Violence, Anxiety, I wanted to make him more possessive (I might in the future but I never thought of it until now), Denial, Kidnapping, Mentioned possible mind break/Murder, Isolation, Stalking, Some jealousy mentioned near the end, Some manipulation, Forced companion/relationship.
I feel Fell! Sans has the possibility of being a terrifying yandere.
He's one of the strongest monsters in the AU and his powers tend to fluctuate due to his emotions.
He's also incredibly stressed all the time from what I've read.
Fell! Sans cares for his brother, they both care for each other actually.
They both want to portray themselves as cool to one another and others.
Fell! Sans is still lazy but also sarcastic.
I know Fell! Papyrus doesn't enjoy killing humans but does it for "sport" to help the guilt, he also does it due to being part of the Royal Guard to protect Sans from Asgore.
However I'm unsure how Sans feels about killing humans according to canon.
I'd assume he'd be indifferent but supports it as it's the law of the land and the job Papyrus is given.
Sans’ obsession was meant to be kept vague however I feel with a human it feels more natural to me?
Maybe you take the role of Frisk or simply aid them.
Either way I'm defaulting Darling to human.
Of course, naturally as the world goes, you end up having to defend yourself against Sans and Papyrus.
Primarily against Papyrus as Sans probably doesn't bother fighting.
Although… you can tell there's some strength there.
Due to what I've read, he radiates power due to his stress.
It's supposedly seen in his jacket at times.
So you have an idea that Sans could easily kill, but are thankful he just chooses not to.
Fell! Sans certainly has an obvious edge in appearance and personality.
He's very sarcastic with you but in a way you can tell he means well when you befriend him and his brother.
In fact when he forms an attachment he may even show some anxiety about you meeting the other monsters.
You are aware of how easily you could just… die, right?
Even with a flower to guide you, he hopes you can defend yourself and not just talk things out.
Although he is thankful you managed to appeal to his brother enough to spare him.
He definitely tries to act calm in general, especially around you, although there's times he slips.
I imagine Fell! Sans fidgets due to… well… the sheer amount of stress he's under.
Really, who isn't in the Underground?
With Asgore in charge there's strict rules.
Rules that could easily end you as a human.
Sans tries to tell himself to not get attached to you.
He'd be in denial about his obsession.
It's all because he's scared to lose you.
Part of him wants to protect you, yet the other part suggests just letting you go.
The ideas he has tears him apart internally, which Papyrus can definitely tell.
Sans keeps fidgeting and his powers keep fluctuating when he thinks about how he can lose you.
Fanon tends to depict Sans as overly sadistic, while I agree he has aggressive tendencies like everyone in this AU, I don't think he's over the top.
I feel Fell! Sans is more like an anxious and stressed mess more than anything.
Which for him can make him volatile as his powers can be controlled, but are emotion based.
His pent up emotions no doubt drives his obsession.
While Papyrus protects Sans from Asgore, Sans feels like he has to protect you from not only Asgore… but everyone not him or his brother.
While you continue your journey, Sans isn't far behind.
He still has similar powers to his classic counterpart, which means teleportation.
Every area you enter, he's somewhere there.
I never mentioned this in the original draft but I do feel Sans would get possessive/jealous.
It's just not mentioned much in this concept since he's more consumed by anxiety than anything.
But in a way he does feel you two belong together, one way or another.
He would definitely murder, but he has to hold himself back due to his powers.
Which, yes, I assume would mean if he's jealous or enraged enough with you talking to others... his powers may flare.
Papyrus is against this but this human clearly means a lot to Sans.
Admittedly… Papyrus would miss you if you died too.
So he understands where Sans is coming from, it mirrors the care Papyrus has for Sans.
But Sans seems more… intense?
Sans could just feel something akin to close friendship or something more.
Honestly, if a monster nearly killed you, he'd probably snap and use his powers.
Which is why he prefers to just… stick around you everywhere.
Admittedly Sans likes it when you laugh.
He tries not to show it but you mean a lot to him.
The reason he tries to hide it as it shows vulnerability.
But you seem to enjoy his Knock Knock jokes and his company….
You like it because he's more “friendly” than the others.
Honestly, that gives him a bit of pride while also striking vulnerability in him.
Sans really keeps trying to tell himself his obsession is a vulnerability.
He shouldn't be this attached to you.
Yet now he really can't just let you go.
As a result I imagine he'd prevent you from meeting Asgore.
Sure, okay, you may have befriended most of the monsters here…
But not him…
Please not him…
He'll kill you and Sans will snap.
Scared of this he gets more fidgety.
You can probably tell even though he acts collected, he has an aura that scares you.
Sans doesn't know how to explain to you he cares about you.
He just doesn't want to lose you.
So Sans may try to manipulate you into staying with him more to avoid Asgore.
Isn't staying in Snowdin better?
Well… Papyrus may want to see you again!
Y'know… it's futile to go against Asgore, right?
Just… stay with him.
If he has to, he'll use some of his power to lock you away in his home/room.
Look, you don't get it.
Asgore nearly killed Sans before… he could and will do the same to you!
It's behind closed doors that Sans’ facade breaks.
He pulls you closer and mumbles about his fears.
He plans to keep you right here… if you try to leave, he'll know.
At this point he'll kill any monster who tries to hurt you or even goes near you.
Sans curses himself for getting so attached to a human.
However, he's given in now.
He'll keep you away from all the danger.
He'll keep you to himself.
Even if it requires others, including him, to get hurt due to his powers and rage.
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I’m seeing too much of this across all channels and I need to write a little something on my humble blog with my humble amount of followers, because how else am I going to get this off my chest.
Some of you need to remember that this whole world we created is pure, fiction. It’s based off fiction and we are building off fiction, forking off in different directions with characters we love.
The canon vs fanon debate is ongoing and quite honestly, mind numbingly pointless and you all consistently contradict and overlap one another with whatever discourse you’re riding that week. You lot wanna argue a point by saying, “these are my hc’s and I can do what I like with them stop taking everything so seriously teeheehehehe” then uno reverse that the next minute by screaming, “that would never happen *insert name* is this or is that” but fuck canon right? Fuck JKR? Or is it more, fuck the parts of canon I don’t like and I’ll take the parts I do so I can shove them down the throats of creators who represent these characters in an opposing light. The amount of posts I’ve seen floating around these sites that are people preaching to their audiences about how dumb they are (unless it’s meant to be satire, I’m not a brainless sensitive lump with no humour bone) for liking certain things, or enjoying certain things, or preferring certain aspects in a character is astounding. Take pause before jumping on your high horse over a fictional character and shaming people for moulding them into what they enjoy. Is this not the beauty of fiction, imagination; the ability to twist and turn over different traits and appearances within our palms and make them into our own little dress up dolls?
Here’s my two cents as a WOLFSTAR artist, not a Marauders— if I want to make Sirius into a teacup and Remus into a sea slug and have him curl up to sleep every night in his bowl, then I’ll do that with fine china detail. If I want to make Sirius someone who refuses to wear nothing but a specific shade of tangerine and Velcro strapped trainers, I will. One day I might throw Moony into a boxing ring and have him be a middleweight champion, stained by the blood of his opponent whilst his wolf is chomping at the bit to come out just before the full moon threatens to take centre stage. If I want to make Sirius 6ft tall and Remus 5ft1, I will. Why not draw an AU of them as the rocks from Everything, Everywhere All At Once? Maybe, they can be something as simple as a boy and a boy who look the way you want them to look, fuck the way you want them to fuck and fall in love and fight, and scream, and cry, and make up a million different ways.
Let’s get more specific as the seal’s broken. Why not make Remus plus sized and give him a beard or a dad’s bod at age 23. Or maybe because he’s lighter haired he doesn’t have dark hair like that and only has a smattering of it across the ugliest of his scars. Consider this— moony with softer hips but fuller sturdy shoulders. Or long, slender limbs with a deceptively hidden strength owing to his wolf, stronger than James though he doesn’t look it. Onto Sirius, try to tell me I’m not going to put him in thigh highs and fem the shit out of him whilst he holds a bat in one hand covered in the blood of someone who tried to disrespect his Moons. Alert the press when someone erases every single one of his tattoos only to replace them with hyperpigmentation. What about giving him a beater’s build and a long thick trail of naval hair that he likes to call his ‘seeker’s delight’. What about a hairless Sirius who has a soft life and likes to make herself pretty for her 6ft 4 boyfriend every weekend when he gets on the train to visit.
How about, I stick with my personal holy take on the boys and present you with a harmless middle ground where Moony is whatever the fuck I want him to be physically, emotionally, or characteristically but always a wet fucking cloth for Sirius. A grape, under a thumb, you could say. And a Sirius, who is too whatever I want him to be physically, emotionally, or characteristically but will always be Moony’s biggest cheerleader.
Stay with me whilst I offer you the brain stretching, risky, taboo thought for you to ponder on: stop trying to please people. Stop absorbing all these takes that pressure you into thinking you’ve got to include every fucking thing that shaves you down and boxes you into their squeaky clean little creator! Indulge in what you like. Make it public, make it known and make it as loud as you want. Feels good on this side of freedom.
Lastly, quick (none of this has been quick) circle back to myself being a Wolfstar artist, not a Marauders one. I will not be shamed into drawing the women in this fandom, I will not try to even out my art with equal parts women and men, in fear of being called misogynistic. I came here for Wolfstar and I stay for them; I get 95% of my muse from them and enjoy drawing these idiots nearly every single day when I can. I’ve a busy life, a job, the luxury of a family that love me and a couple friends I’d like to keep too. If and when I draw, it’s going to be what I want to draw and want to indulge in, not to check off your boxes of inclusion. I am not going to defend my choice of indulgence to you. I am not going to refute women or wlw ships and in fact, eat up stories or art where they’re prominent. Will I have muse or will to do a piece on them? Probably not. If I do, I will and if it’s not done to a standard deemed appropriate enough by the council, well shit I hope I get an honourable mention in one of your hate threads on Twitter.
Grow up. I am the type of person who has a more or less rigid taste on these boys and what I, enjoy representing them like and you runts will run your throats hoarse before I turn an ear. I am not the type of person to see someone who doesn’t like what I prefer and start slamming my keyboard and slap them with a red card. I’ll move on but appreciate the take in silence. Some of you really, come across like you’re stomping your feet in a tantrum, some of you sound like you’ve never been told to shut the fuck up a day in your life and some of you, some of you, really think you’re a messiah.
Fuck your canons, fanons and righteous attitudes towards people who are quite literally, not real. You are not a deity of the Marauders, you are a fucking loser offline just like the rest of us.
#mad you think this place can be schooled into your desires#I’m going to read this over and find six thousand errors#this is why I hate being online#but that’s where the good stuffs at too#a paradox of pain#the emotional intelligence#the intellectual buoyancy in general around here#slim pickings#midday and a migraine is heading straight for me I can tell#what do I tag this#remus#sirius#wolfstar#the usual then#remus lupin#sirius black#marauders era#marauders#atyd#roman you’re rubbing off on me
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why don't you like jayjon? Genuinely asking btw and I'm neutral btw I don't really ship superheroes kids, so yeah
Alright, firstly I have always come across damijon shippers that ship them as kids because their purest connection peaked when they were young so you kind of permanently keep Jon and Damian as kid in your head because of what DC did to them.
We ship them in a ‘wholesome crush on your best friend, twisting inside you over time that you snub out till you reach your adulthood and have the maturity to deal with it’ type of way. The beauty of Damijon is not the fact that it’s Bat x Super. I honestly don’t care for this dynamic ergo not shipping superbat and not liking Timkon at all. The beauty of Damijon is that they could become something with a friendship to back it up, then continue to push each other’s characters forward while being in a relationship if the writer cared enough. It’s a plus that they care for each other so much and have the personalities to really balance each other out.
I enjoy ships like Daminika, Dami x Colin and other Jon ships as well. I just only post damijon and talk about them. It’s only Jonj*y I have issues with. It’s not about ‘getting in the way of my ship’ nothing can ever get in the way of me enjoying damijon and fandom is just gonna have to deal with that. We all come here for enjoyment because we should supposedly enjoy DC for DC and find community in that, enjoy our ideas and takes on it and one person is not going to perceive or enjoy something the same way but we are so damn MEAN to each other. Damijon gets a lot of heat, mostly because twitter damijon stans are annoying and horrible and damijon antis are just as bad.
So the problem I have with Jonj*y is just deep rooted.
Firstly, I hate the way it came about. The last thing Jon’s character needed was to be in a relationship period but then for it to be a queer relationship used as a tool to garner sales? There’s nothing in the world I dislike more than queer baiting. The last thing we needed from DC was to pull something like this and as a queer person it just really gets under my skin - as it should anyone, to be honest.
Even regardless of that Jonj*y is the relationship equivalent of stale bread. They have no chemistry, Jay has no character besides catoring to Jon’s sexuality, and even if they were to explore him there’s no point because objectively they’ve tarnished Jon Kent way too much to be wasting comic ink on Jay.
I don’t like aged up Jon Kent as a whole, it’s not like I want him to stay a kid forever - obviously not. The fun of a comic book character is their growth! Jon over time should have never been able to get to the age he is now when other comic book characters struggle to get near that age in decades. I MEAN HE’S NEARLY OLDER THAN KON RIGHT NOW. Bendis did what he did to Jon because he ain’t even like him.
There are real serious issues with Jon Kent’s age up than him getting with Damian. I know how to seperate my ship/fanon from canon. I can go on and on about the problems with it without mentioning Damian once.
I had to put “JonJ*y apologist DNI” in my bio because the stans kept coming to my page and spewing BS 24/7 so I thought it was my absolute right to make sure they knew this page was not for them.
If you enjoy the ship at all then you will not like me because I have almost every single active Jonj*y poster blocked because I have fought with them at least once because they wanted to be stupid and spew nonsense on Jon Kent when you can tell they haven’t read a damn comic besides SSOKE and it really shows.
If you enjoy it, just block me. It’s only a matter of time before we fight anyway, so don’t waste your breath because the whole time you could be trying to open your mouth, you could open a comic book instead, how about that?
Thanks for the asks though, LOL.
P.2
#jondami#damian wayne#jon kent#supersons#super sons#jonathan kent#damijon#asks#jon kent meta#jon kent age up
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why do people always have damian refer to talia as mother or talia?
now i’m gonna preface this by saying i don’t speak arabic nor am i arab but arab people feel beyond free to just tell me to stay in my lane.
that being said it makes zero sense to me that damian refers to talia as mother or her first name. this goes for both canon and fanon.
mother makes no sense to me because he wouldn’t have grown up saying mother, like you expect me to believe that in nanda parbat damian was referring to his mother in english absolutely not. and while i understand the idea that once he moves to gotham he tries to assimilate i don’t think he would do that my addressing talia as mother. like he might say my mother when referring to her in general. but when actually speaking to her or about her to her family that just feels very unnatural to me.
talia also makes no sense to me. like is to showcase their tumultuous relationship sure okay but i have never in my life seen or heard of a brown person or a poc in general directly refer to their parents as their first name. like when they’re not around sure but as a direct address never. i say this as a poc myself. like you expect me to just believe that talia would allow that. absolutely not. like no matter your stance on respectability politics i feel like addressing your elders with the appropriate respect is a pretty universal thing especially among poc. and you can still portray a tumultuous relationship between parents and children without having an element that’s so aberrative.
i think it especially pisses me off in fanon because people love to have damian refer to bruce or dick as baba as like evidence of their improving relationship but then have talia be called talia or mother. and if the reasoning is that damian and talia’s relationship is so bad that he’s doing this purposefully to put this space between them then that should be demonstrated in the narrative. that this is a recent change, an unnatural one, it isn’t instinctual, but it is purposeful. i mean there are also other issues with talia and damian having a horrible relationship but i find that most of that comes down to talias post 2001 characterisation so i wont go into it but i defo think writers should keep in mind. no media is ever created in a vacuum.
anyway from a little bit of research i’ve done i’ve found that yumma, ommah and omm are all very common ways to say mother. there are loads of different ways to say mother because arabic has so many different dialects. i’ve also found out that ommi el-habiba means my beloved mother which i could totally see damian saying really bitingly if he is fighting with talia.
once again arab people feel free to correct me or tell me to mind my business. but also i think about this a lot like even mama makes far more sense to me than mother or talia
#damian wayne#damian wayne al ghul#talia al ghul#dc batfam#batfamily#bruce wayne#dick grayson#robin#batman#batfamily headcanons#batman meta#batfam meta
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